Ugly EP-3 jpeg output under certain conditions

[Phoque]

I originally posted it here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1008&message=39377758

had not notice the MFT thread...

 

[Gregm61]

So, those first two images are what you actually bought the camera to shoot? A (partial) door, in the dark, at f14?

I would not have had the nerve to post such poor shots, much less ask for opinions.

 

[Hen3ry]

…just throw it out!

The sunset picture is gorgeous. I can’t see any problems. Beautiful Oly color. Is Viewer 2 the problem? Have you tried other viewers?

Cheers, geoff
--
Geoffrey Heard

http://pngtimetraveller.blogspot.com/2010/12/what-does-standard-of-living-mean-in.html

 

[Phoque]

@Gregm61

Have you read the post from start to end?

Do you suffer some kind of mental retardation?

 

[Jaelkay]

@Gregm61

Have you read the post from start to end?

Do you suffer some kind of mental retardation?

Y'all know what they say about Texas ;-)

 

[Phoque]

@Hen3ry

As I mentioned, the uploaded sunset image looks fine on DPReview. In the other two shots, I just tried to illustrate the 'mud spots' problem. The point was not to keep these pictures, just reproduce the problem I've observed.

My original post is probably unclear as most people don't seem to understand my problem.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let's just ask this:

With your EP-3, in some low light conditions, considering straight out of camera JPEG output:

Have you ever noticed mud like spots in dark areas?

 

[Phoque]

Let's just ask this:

With your EP-3, in some low light conditions, with noise processing settings to OFF, considering straight out of camera JPEG output:

Have you ever noticed mud like spots in dark/greyish areas instead of evenly distributed noise? As if some kind of aggressive noise processing took place?

 

[Phoque]

The last two images are screen capture of a RAW and a JPEG file loaded directly from camera in Viewer2.

Is anybody able to take JPEG pictures that have untouched or very similar noise distribution like the RAW capture instead of the mud like JPEG one? Shot was taken at ISO1600.

Noise processing settings were disabled.

If I try to convert the RAW file to JPEG, it gets muddied, no way to keep it sharp.

It is not a viewer application issue unless there is an issue with Olympus Viewer2, Microsoft Picture Viewer and GIMP.

 

[Gregm61]

Do you suffer some kind of mental retardation?

Nope, I'm not the one who shot that at 1 second and f14 and then posted it.

Shoot it at 1/2 seconds and you will double the problem and have even more to complain about. Try 1/4 second and you'll be able to double all those exclamation points, it'll look so bad.

 

[Dwip]

Can you make this RAW file available for download? Maybe trying it out ourselves would uncover additional insight.

 

[Phoque]

Can you make this RAW file available for download? Maybe trying it out ourselves would uncover additional insight.

Unfortunately, from what I've seen on the uploader, it is not supported yet. But if you have an EP-3, just try to shoot night pictures at ISO1600 (jpg+raw) and see if there are mud like spots in the JPEG dark/mid-tone output. Then, load the RAW and try to get a sharp jpg ( obviously with noise, but evenly distributed instead of the patches of 'mud' like I get).

 

[Tim in upstate NY]

. . . Look at that histogram if you know how to interpret it and then do some homework on obtaining correct exposure. Any camera can make bad photos when the exposure settings are that far off.

 

[Phoque]

. . . Look at that histogram if you know how to interpret it and then do some homework on obtaining correct exposure. Any camera can make bad photos when the exposure settings are that far off.

The problem I have is with noise distribution, which is evenly distributed in the RAW file and consistently muddy in the JPEG. So the camera is doing a bad conversion of RAW to JPEG, not a bad photo.

Again, the 2 noise processing settings in the G menu (noise reduction and noise filter) are disabled, so I don't understand why the JPEG wouldn't have an evenly distributed noise like the RAW file.

 

[zigi_S]

Probably because your jpeg settings push shadows and other extreme regions. Shoot muted with everything 0 then tell.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zeegee/

 

[Phoque]

Probably because your jpeg settings push shadows and other extreme regions. Shoot muted with everything 0 then tell.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zeegee/

I shot with muted Picture Mode. Saturation, contrast, sharpness were at 0. I shot in Manual mode.

I've added the JPEG settings used here, if you see anything suspicious, please let me know (settings are same as for RAW, I shot RAW+jpg):





It seems like noise processing is always applied in camera or in Viewer2 even though you told it not to.

 

[dingenus]

I don't have a EP3 but use Viewer many times. For the old cams(10mp dslr's to the EPl1/2) the NF setting are real, Off =Off. Some time ago there was a man asking (in oly talk forum) the same about the xz1. I could not belief what he said. Using the orf's in Viewer he could not set the NF fully to Off. But he was right. So you could be right that Viewer does not set the NF really to Off. But your example is extreme.

 

[Phoque]

... I could not belief what he said. Using the orf's in Viewer he could not set the NF fully to Off. But he was right. So you could be right that Viewer does not set the NF really to Off. But your example is extreme.

Thank you for your message.

And it seems it is not only a Viewer exclusive problem as the out of camera JPEG suffer the same problem (my noise processing settings were OFF).

I guess at that point I'd have to shoot my low light pictures in RAW and buy a software like Lightroom if I wanted to really have full control.

Any suggestions on other good post processing software with ORF file support (LightRoom is expensive)?
edit: Just tried Lightroom Demo and it doesn't support ORF file!!!

Could any other EP-3 user confirm having or not the same issue @ISO1600 in dark section of their pictures?

 

[odl]

Then use something like Raw Therapee to Process the raws and export to do your Noise Reduction in Noise Ninja.

Just mucked around with my EP2 files, they should be similar so some degree, in viewer 2, i set NR to off, and False colour suppression to off and saved as a High res Jpeg to view in Picture viewer.

I didnt get that issue, just even noise across the frame. As others have mentioned, send us a raw file, see what we can get out of the same image, just use a free hosting site and post the Link.

Ab

--
alatchinphotography.com

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For
knowledge is limited to all we now know and
understand, while imagination embraces the entire
world, and all there ever will be to know and
understand.” - Albert Einstein

 

[Bobo Hodls]

... I could not belief what he said. Using the orf's in Viewer he could not set the NF fully to Off. But he was right. So you could be right that Viewer does not set the NF really to Off. But your example is extreme.

Thank you for your message.

And it seems it is not only a Viewer exclusive problem as the out of camera JPEG suffer the same problem (my noise processing settings were OFF).

I guess at that point I'd have to shoot my low light pictures in RAW and buy a software like Lightroom if I wanted to really have full control.

Any suggestions on other good post processing software with ORF file support (LightRoom is expensive)?
edit: Just tried Lightroom Demo and it doesn't support ORF file!!!

Not the trial or the latest version - but the release candidate supports the E-P3 & E-PL3 ORFs. Or, one could change the EXIF Model field of in the RAW to read E-PL2 instead of E-P3 to be recognized (until the commercial version is released with this support).

--
...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com

"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
.

 

[Phoque]

Finally, I have been able to produce a JPEG from an ORF file with no noise reduction mess. I've used Google Picasa. Here are the results, first one just RAW conversion, the other one with some noise reduction on Picasa outputted JPEG using Viewer2.









I can't believe at their 3rd iteration Olympus have missed that so bad. I do hope it is a mistake on their part and it was not planned to be this way because it makes really disgusting JPEG output from camera or through their software RAW conversion (most of my low light high ISO pictures).

I'm a bit surprised they missed that too in DPReview's review. Seems like a significant flaw to me.

Yes, other than that, I'm happy with my EP-3 + VF-2.