rumor?

[GiorgioPM]

80% of IQ is the subject.
--
GiorgioPM

 

[GiorgioPM]

I have seen lots of great pictures taken with prosumer fixed lens
cameras. I honestly think that, not an advanced-ameteur dSLR, is
your best option for getting the results you want.

Chad,
There are also PRO photographers that appreciate the EVF.
Give a look.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=20875929

Also, based on your descriiption, it sounds like your work flow is
completely backwwards from the rest of the world, which may be why
you have this unrelenting need for EVF. You might want to consider
improving your workfow.

I don't yhink so.
My goal is to take images at best, not to use an unfriendly camera at best.

I was used to play with a camera in the past, when I was young (I had a pro film SLR).

I have 2 active hobbies (listen music is passive): Painting and photography.

I like to paint places (like mountains or Colorado Plateau deserts), where it is uncomfortable for "plain air" painting.

So I used my SRL essentially to document my trips and then paint (I use only my pictures for painting).

With a Minolta EVF camera I had so fun taking photos that photography become a second hobby and I started to take “artistic” photos as the "final product".

If my digicam will die and an EVIL will not be available at that moment, I will buy a cheap DSLR (may be an A100 with an 18-250 Tamron) just to document my trips, until an EVIL will be available.

I will be a moment (I feel soon) when the EVF will get more money to manufactures than the mirror.
At that moment Phil will write a review like this:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/konicaminoltaa2/
and crowds will be convinced that EVF is better.

Surely this process will begin at the lower DSLR level, but it will proceed faster than you think in the higher segments as film died much and much faster than most expected.

See you at that moment.

chad

--
GiorgioPM

 

[Craig]

I guess I will be buying a Canon 5d or it's successor soon.
I really prefer the ff sensor for wedding work.

However I still use my film cameras, especially for high speed b&w so I don't like having more than 6 cameras around my neck.. just kidding.

3 most of the time.. duhhh,, fast prime lenses

 

[GiorgioPM]

Ehi Chad,

someone else don't likes to fight with WB and play with PS.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=20873497

EVF makes a camera a Playstation or it is a useful tool?

--
GiorgioPM

 

[Jojakim]

I think a lot of nice sky pictures are not like reality because of uv haze and reflections. You can get better near human eye results with polarization/UV filters.

Why shouldn't you be able to check the camera's inability to capture 'sunset optical illusions' on the back lcd screen?

It might be that EVF's get so smart and sharp they can replace OVF's, but I bet it won't happen this decade.

 

[CM PHoto]

In camera on-site is not where I am worried about color balance.
That is where I am worried about capturing the image. I worry
about color balance in front of my calibrated LCD monitor while in
PS.

When I say calibrated, I mean that you can see exactly what your
camera is taking, a correspondence between sensor and display.

With all due respect and for Sony's sake, I hope you are waiting a
VERY long time for your EVF. I can not imagine EVF being well
received at all by shooters who focus on capturing the moment when
their camera is in their hands.

If you mean action photography may be better OVF. I say "may be"
because nobody knows the focusing speed of current state of the art
EVFs.

Calling taking pictures of things that might actually move is a pretty broad definition of action photography.

If you mean landscaping, I feel is better, faster and more user
friendly the EVF.
If you have the opportunity, put your eyes in a A2 viewfinder (and
it is 2 years old).
Of course, if you evaluate EVFs having other cameras as reference,
I can understand your concern.

Do broadcast video cameras use OVF or EVF? (and are used for sport
event broadcast).
Please note that Sony is leader in broadcast level video cameras
and can offer us some surprise.

May be the first exit will be a cheap APS, but may be also a FF
will follow not so far.

chad

--
GiorgioPM

When I say "calibrated," I mean that what you see is actually what is recorded. The camera is trying to convert an analog signal into a digital signal and then record it to media. For the camera to show you what it has, it needs to take that digital signal and recompose it in analog. These devises have drift in them. It has to do with material limitations and operating conditions. it can not be engineered out. This is why people spend money on devises and software to calibrate there monitors. This is why printer manufacturers are building color calibration into their pro printers.

There are so many links in the chain that influence color. The lens is a big one, the software the camera uses is huge, especially when using AWB (taking most of the control of the color out of your hands and putting it into some engineer at Sony. What are the things that the engineer is looking at when s/he writes the algorithm? I have no idea), the color profile in your computer, your monitor (another really big one-does is produce a red the same way your EVF does? Probably not), your printer drivers and printer (does it produce a red the same way your monitor does? Almost never without calibration)

You need the right tool for the job. From what you have described, it does not sound to me like you are looking for the right tool. Get a fixed lens prosumer R1 and move on.

 

[CM PHoto]

Ehi Chad,

someone else don't likes to fight with WB and play with PS.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=20873497

EVF makes a camera a Playstation or it is a useful tool?

--
GiorgioPM

A playstation camera. All it needs is a controller port.

I think if you and this other person had an understanding of color management and digital workflow, you might stop asking equipment to get the results that somebody who does understand digital workflow can get with what is already available to the market.

 

[GiorgioPM]

Ehi Chad,

someone else don't likes to fight with WB and play with PS.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=20873497

EVF makes a camera a Playstation or it is a useful tool?

--
GiorgioPM

A playstation camera. All it needs is a controller port.

I think if you and this other person had an understanding of color
management and digital workflow, you might stop asking equipment to
get the results that somebody who does understand digital workflow
can get with what is already available to the market.

Too right!!!

I don't really understand why so silly people invented cars when horses where already available on the market.

And I don't understand too, why they invented cameras "to get the results that somebody (a skilled painter) who does understand painting workflow could get with what was already available to the market".

Ehi Chad, you should start learning to paint (I already started about 30 years ago): it's fun ...

--
GiorgioPM

 

[GiorgioPM]

I think a lot of nice sky pictures are not like reality because of
uv haze and reflections. You can get better near human eye results
with polarization/UV filters.

Why shouldn't you be able to check the camera's inability to
capture 'sunset optical illusions' on the back lcd screen?

It might be that EVF's get so smart and sharp they can replace
OVF's, but I bet it won't happen this decade.

You are pessimist and I am optimist.

Moreover, Sony main business is in electronics ...

--
GiorgioPM

 

[GiorgioPM]

There are so many links in the chain that influence color. The
lens is a big one, the software the camera uses is huge, especially
when using AWB (taking most of the control of the color out of your
hands and putting it into some engineer at Sony. What are the
things that the engineer is looking at when s/he writes the
algorithm? I have no idea), the color profile in your computer,
your monitor (another really big one-does is produce a red the same
way your EVF does? Probably not), your printer drivers and printer
(does it produce a red the same way your monitor does? Almost
never without calibration)

Cameras have to be calibrated against standard profiles (e.g. Photoshop 1998, sRGB, etc.) and your monitor too: that works.
There are tools to calibrate monitors (e.g. produced by Pantone).

You need the right tool for the job. From what you have described,
it does not sound to me like you are looking for the right tool.
Get a fixed lens prosumer R1 and move on.

R1 and A2 are discontinued and need a replacement.

I currently have a Minolta prosumer digicam and I am waiting for a upgrade because what I mainly miss is the possibility to change the lenses (plus IS).

--
GiorgioPM

 

[CM PHoto]

I have no patience for painting. I tried in high school. Im too much of an engineer, also.

 

[GiorgioPM]

I have no patience for painting. I tried in high school. Im too
much of an engineer, also.

Ahh...

And is there any reason not to use new technologies to avoid be patient with PS?

(I'm engineer too and I paint for hobby).

--
GiorgioPM

 

[Mark VB]

Also, based on your descriiption, it sounds like your work flow is
completely backwwards from the rest of the world, which may be why
you have this unrelenting need for EVF. You might want to consider
improving your workfow.

I don't yhink so.
My goal is to take images at best, not to use an unfriendly camera
at best.

If your goal truly is to make your images as best you can, then you would be shooting in RAW and then customizing your white balance setting when you process your RAW images. Getting an accurate WB setting at the time of shooting is critical only if you shoot jpeg (where the camera is doing the processing of the RAW file and you have no choice in how it does so). RAW files don't lose any data, unlike jpegs, and provide the maximum quality possible from your digital file. If you insist on shooting jpegs, and need accurate WB at the time of shooting, then you can use an expodisc, which will allow you to se a custom WB for the exact lighting condition you are in quickly. Once set, you don't need to change it unless your lighting condition changes.

Moreover, what makes you think that the screen that displays the EVF is properly calibrated to show you accurate colors in the viewfinder? Trying to set WB by how an image looks on an EVF is not exactly a good workflow.

Some of the problems with EVFs have already been mentioned (including relative lack of sharpness and battery drain), but a serious one not mentioned is the black-out or freeze frame image that you get in the viewfinder when you take an exposure. This is simply not acceptable if you are shooting action and need to continuously follow the subject(s) as it is moving.

EVFs have a long way to go before they will be accepted by most pro and advanced amateur shooters, if ever. If they ever do appear on a DSLR, I would expect it to be at the entry level, where features often viewed as "gimmicky" first appear and sometimes eventually migrate up to the higher-end bodies (one example is the built-in flash, which other than Minolta's Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 9 still has not appeared on a pro 35mm style camera). Another is eye-control focus that Canon had on some "amateur" and "advanced amateur" cameras but never made it to a pro body.

--
Mark Van Bergh

 

[GiorgioPM]

When you are a professional (in every field) you have to get results independently of nuisance and do it with best (you have) available technology (it’s my everyday's life).

I am not a professional photographer and photography should be a pleasure and not a pain.
Every new technology that reduces the workload is welcome.

I used a PRO SRL with fixed lenses; later a good zoom was welcome. I know how to use.
I know how to use PS but I don’t enjoy using it.

I enjoyed much more to taking pictures with an advanced Digicam EVF equipped (just I missed interchangeable lenses and lower noise).

It would be perfect for me to have an entry level FF EVF.

--
GiorgioPM

 

[CM PHoto]

I have no patience for painting. I tried in high school. Im too
much of an engineer, also.

Ahh...

And is there any reason not to use new technologies to avoid be
patient with PS?

(I'm engineer too and I paint for hobby).

--
GiorgioPM

In terms of EVF, yes. It is a signficant step backwards in just about every other aspect I requre in a viewfinder.

Who said I needed to be patient with PS? I picked it up alright. I am not nearly as good as many, but I am able to achomplish what I need and everything that you are looking for in a EVF very easily, without sacrificing the resolution, speed, and efficiency of an OVF.

Everything is a comprimise. Do I want 5fps if it means I have to change the battery every 4 exposures? No. Do I want gobs of megapixels if it means I have to invest thousands in CF cards and change a card every exposure? No. Because the tradeoff for these obviously made up conditions would render the rest of the system non-functional. The tradeoffs for EVP are not made up.

I am not willing to sacrific the bennefits of the pentaprism to gain something that I can achieve through smart digital workflow in a tool I already have and am already comfortable with.

Beyond that, we are going to have to agree to disagree.

chad

 

[GiorgioPM]

Not a problem for me.
I will do like this guy.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=20588932

And, if my Minolta dies, I will buy a Samsung (may be in the meantime they will adopt the 10Mp and Pentax AS).
I feel many others will do that.

If Sony don't wants to keep prosumer crowds, bad for Sony, there are other brands on the market.

--
GiorgioPM

 

[GiorgioPM]

Not a problem for me.
I will do like this guy.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=20588932

And, if my Minolta dies, I will buy a Samsung (may be in the
meantime they will adopt the 10Mp and Pentax AS).
I feel many others will do that.
If Sony don't wants to keep prosumer crowds, bad for Sony, there
are other brands on the market.

--
GiorgioPM

--
GiorgioPM

 

[GiorgioPM]

--
GiorgioPM

 

[bobfloyd]

If it has a good EVF yes.

I would recommend being prepared to be disappointed, if this is really what you want. A FF camera would be for the prosumer crowd and I doubt there is are many, if any, in that group who want an EVF camera. I certainly don't. In fact, this is the one single thing Sony could do that would drive me right out of their camp and into either Canon or Nikon. I suspect I am not the only one either.

Bob

--
http://www.pbase.com/bobfloyd

 

[bobfloyd]

It would be perfect for me to have an entry level FF EVF.

And there is your problem. We are years, maybe decades, away from this and for a number of reasons. The two big ones I can think of are that FF is going significantly more expensive than APS-C for a long time, thus prohibiting an "entry level FF" camera. The second is that people buying entry level want to take snap shots and you just miss to many with EVF. I have a friend with an EVF P&S and she is regularly upset with the shots she was just a second off on or missed completely.

Bob

--
http://www.pbase.com/bobfloyd