Questions from prospective A7Cii or A7CR owner

[Mark B UK]

I'm thinking of buying either an A7Cii or A7CR, coming from -11 years with m43 (currently OM-1, 12-100, 8-25, 25 1.2) and would appreciate input re the questions that will help me decide.

1. How much difference is there in noise and dynamic range between the A7Cii and A7CR at ISOs of 6400 and 12,800?

2. How well protected are these cameras against dust on the sensor, and if there is some, how easy/hard is it to remove?

3. I understand both bodies weigh the same and have the same form factor. Is this correct?

4. If I put a 16-35 f/4 PZ, a 20-70 f/4 or a 50 1.4 (Sony G) on the front of either, when hanging from a strap, will the camera tip forward?

5. Do those two lenses zoom only internally, or do they get longer, with the centre of gravity therefore altering, as they zoom?

6. Does the powered zoom of the 16-35 have any significant impact on battery drain?

7. Are one or both of those lenses good enough to warrant buying the A7CR as opposed to the A7Cii?

8. When shooting 4k video, does a file size constraint on the UHS-II memory card cause video footage to be chopped into multiple files that then have to be recombined into a single one? Or is that only a problem with UHS-I?

9. For those who have bought the A7Cii or A7CR having had m43 (ideally the OM-1), what have you thought, for good and ill, about the switch?

10. Again for those with experience of the kit I'm currently using, what is the performance of the 16-35 PZ, 20-70, 50 1.4 and 70-200 f/4 Sony lenses like relative to the three Olympus ones I'm currently using?

I appreciate some people may be able to answer only certain of the questions, but I'm hoping the wisdom of crowds will help me reach a decision.

 

[jimzellmer]

Olympus/OM IBIS + lens stabilization when using the 12-100 cannot be equaled in the full frame world, in my years of Sony experience.

Each system has its constraints. Dust seems to quickly find its way to Sony sensors.

I like them both for their strengths and tolerate the weaknesses due to the former.

Composite mode is cool in the OM world as well.

 

[SafariBob]

I'm thinking of buying either an A7Cii or A7CR, coming from -11 years with m43 (currently OM-1, 12-100, 8-25, 25 1.2) and would appreciate input re the questions that will help me decide.

1. How much difference is there in noise and dynamic range between the A7Cii and A7CR at ISOs of 6400 and 12,800?

little if anything.

2. How well protected are these cameras against dust on the sensor, and if there is some, how easy/hard is it to remove?

not very well. Not very easy, but it’s more of an annoyance than a real problem.

3. I understand both bodies weigh the same and have the same form factor. Is this correct?

afaik, yes.

4. If I put a 16-35 f/4 PZ, a 20-70 f/4 or a 50 1.4 (Sony G) on the front of either, when hanging from a strap, will the camera tip forward?

probably, depending on the situation

5. Do those two lenses zoom only internally, or do they get longer, with the centre of gravity therefore altering, as they zoom?

My understanding is that the 16-35 does, the other doesn’t

6. Does the powered zoom of the 16-35 have any significant impact on battery drain?

imo, no

7. Are one or both of those lenses good enough to warrant buying the A7CR as opposed to the A7Cii?

These lenses are more than good enough imo, but I’d probably stick with the a7cii

8. When shooting 4k video, does a file size constraint on the UHS-II memory card cause video footage to be chopped into multiple files that then have to be recombined into a single one? Or is that only a problem with UHS-I?

not sure

9. For those who have bought the A7Cii or A7CR having had m43 (ideally the OM-1), what have you thought, for good and ill, about the switch?

not applicable to me

10. Again for those with experience of the kit I'm currently using, what is the performance of the 16-35 PZ, 20-70, 50 1.4 and 70-200 f/4 Sony lenses like relative to the three Olympus ones I'm currently using?

Cannot speak from experience, on the one hand, these are higher end lenses, so should notice the difference, at least if cropping or larger screens etc, on the other hand, when you are comparing 1 good lens to another good lens, there is no guarantee that you will like the “better” lens.

I appreciate some people may be able to answer only certain of the questions, but I'm hoping the wisdom of crowds will help me reach a decision.

 

[chrisfisheye]

Olympus/OM IBIS + lens stabilization when using the 12-100 cannot be equaled in the full frame world

Could you develop please ? Just curious.

 

[A74Me]

shot with m43 for 5 years epl5,em5, em52, em12 switched to a7r2 and now a7iv the a7r2 was in another league and the a74 is much better again, could never go back to m43 . im on holidays and just have my a74 with the 45 1.8 samyang kit . image quality is first class and camera operation is faultless. even apsc crop images are great.

 

[JALComputing]

My experience is that with larger sensor, higher resolution cameras:

1) One needs to shoot at much higher shutter speeds when pixel peeping, even at the expense of higher ISO.

2) The zooms are bigger and heavier, leading me to retreat to small primes like the 40 2.5 G and small zooms like the kit 28-60 zoom or the Tamron 20-40 2.8.

3) You can crop and still get a decent print.

 

[alphaZ]

I'm thinking of buying either an A7Cii or A7CR, coming from -11 years with m43 (currently OM-1, 12-100, 8-25, 25 1.2) and would appreciate input re the questions that will help me decide.

I think you should forget these a7c's, the overall ergonomics is still extremely compromised. If you don't need the sheer speed of the Om-1 then a7iv and a7rv are better options imo, with the a7r5 having serious functionality and significantly improved ibis along with a great evf and rear lcd and state of the art object recognition.

If you need tge om-1 performance its probably best to wait for the announcement on 8th Nov. alternatively the a1 offers excellent performance with a stacked sensor and with various apps most functionality is covered, the ibis is decent but not the very best available. The larger bodies will be more comfortable with the bigger lenses.

1. How much difference is there in noise and dynamic range between the A7Cii and A7CR at ISOs of 6400 and 12,800?

2. How well protected are these cameras against dust on the sensor, and if there is some, how easy/hard is it to remove?

3. I understand both bodies weigh the same and have the same form factor. Is this correct?

4. If I put a 16-35 f/4 PZ, a 20-70 f/4 or a 50 1.4 (Sony G) on the front of either, when hanging from a strap, will the camera tip forward?

5. Do those two lenses zoom only internally, or do they get longer, with the centre of gravity therefore altering, as they zoom?

6. Does the powered zoom of the 16-35 have any significant impact on battery drain?

7. Are one or both of those lenses good enough to warrant buying the A7CR as opposed to the A7Cii?

8. When shooting 4k video, does a file size constraint on the UHS-II memory card cause video footage to be chopped into multiple files that then have to be recombined into a single one? Or is that only a problem with UHS-I?

9. For those who have bought the A7Cii or A7CR having had m43 (ideally the OM-1), what have you thought, for good and ill, about the switch?

10. Again for those with experience of the kit I'm currently using, what is the performance of the 16-35 PZ, 20-70, 50 1.4 and 70-200 f/4 Sony lenses like relative to the three Olympus ones I'm currently using?

I appreciate some people may be able to answer only certain of the questions, but I'm hoping the wisdom of crowds will help me reach a decision.

 

[alphaZ]

My experience is that with larger sensor, higher resolution cameras:

1) One needs to shoot at much higher shutter speeds when pixel peeping, even at the expense of higher ISO.

A7r5 seems to go prove that theory wrong and a1 shoos silently with minimal issue.

2) The zooms are bigger and heavier, leading me to retreat to small primes like the 40 2.5 G and small zooms like the kit 28-60 zoom or the Tamron 20-40 2.8.

The Tamron 28-200 and Sony 24-105 offer similar size-weight to the 12-100 and offer upto 3 stops advantage over it along with 60mp images

3) You can crop and still get a decent print.

 

[Peter Foiles]

I'm thinking of buying either an A7Cii or A7CR, coming from -11 years with m43 (currently OM-1, 12-100, 8-25, 25 1.2) and would appreciate input re the questions that will help me decide.

1. How much difference is there in noise and dynamic range between the A7Cii and A7CR at ISOs of 6400 and 12,800?

Using the A7M4 and A7R5 as proxies:

Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

2. How well protected are these cameras against dust on the sensor, and if there is some, how easy/hard is it to remove?

I do not have much of a problem with dust on Sny cameras and when there is 90+% of the time a rocket blower will deal with it.

3. I understand both bodies weigh the same and have the same form factor. Is this correct?

Yes. The A7CR comes with an accessory baseplate grip extension which fits like a glove on the A7C2. I believe the A7CR is 1g heavier.

Quick iPhone photo you may find of interest.

4. If I put a 16-35 f/4 PZ, a 20-70 f/4 or a 50 1.4 (Sony G) on the front of either, when hanging from a strap, will the camera tip forward?

Absolutely.

5. Do those two lenses zoom only internally, or do they get longer, with the centre of gravity therefore altering, as they zoom?

16-35PZ is internal zoom the 20-70 is not.

6. Does the powered zoom of the 16-35 have any significant impact on battery drain?

Not that I have noticed

7. Are one or both of those lenses good enough to warrant buying the A7CR as opposed to the A7Cii?

Not sure if I agree with the premise of the question. They are both very good lenses but they are not GM primes. If you need 60mp then get the A7CR if not then get the A7C2. When working in a studio setting its my A7R5 and 24-70/2.8 GM2. But if it is out and about traveling (as in my upcoming Cuba trip) then it is the A7CR with 20-70/4 with the A7C2 as backup.

8. When shooting 4k video, does a file size constraint on the UHS-II memory card cause video footage to be chopped into multiple files that then have to be recombined into a single one? Or is that only a problem with UHS-I?

Don’t shoot video

9. For those who have bought the A7Cii or A7CR having had m43 (ideally the OM-1), what have you thought, for good and ill, about the switch?

As seen in the above photo it is not a switch but running multiple systems. I got the OM-1 to try the in camera computational features (ND filters etc). These features are great and the IBIS can’t be beat and DXO PL does wonders with high iso OM-1 files. But at the end of the day 4x the surface area of FF gives IQ that m43 can’t reach. Its only when you start getting in long tele that m43 starts to make a stronger argument.

10. Again for those with experience of the kit I'm currently using, what is the performance of the 16-35 PZ, 20-70, 50 1.4 and 70-200 f/4 Sony lenses like relative to the three Olympus ones I'm currently using?

16-35PZ, 20-70 and 70-200/4 Macro G2 are only marginally below their GM2 equivalents which is to say they are pretty darned good. The 50/1.4 GM is among the finest optics out there period. But you make images using a system that includes a sensor and those lenses aong with a FF sensor is going to outperform any thing that m43 has to offer. The 40/2.5 pictured above is equivalent to a 20/1.25 in m43 do you think your OM 25/1.2 could do better:

A7CR - FE 40/2.5 @ f8. Vignette added in post.

I appreciate some people may be able to answer only certain of the questions, but I'm hoping the wisdom of crowds will help me reach a decision.

 

[AlephNull]

I'm thinking of buying either an A7Cii or A7CR, coming from -11 years with m43 (currently OM-1, 12-100, 8-25, 25 1.2) and would appreciate input re the questions that will help me decide.

1. How much difference is there in noise and dynamic range between the A7Cii and A7CR at ISOs of 6400 and 12,800?

little if anything.

2. How well protected are these cameras against dust on the sensor, and if there is some, how easy/hard is it to remove?

not very well. Not very easy, but it’s more of an annoyance than a real problem.

3. I understand both bodies weigh the same and have the same form factor. Is this correct?

afaik, yes.

4. If I put a 16-35 f/4 PZ, a 20-70 f/4 or a 50 1.4 (Sony G) on the front of either, when hanging from a strap, will the camera tip forward?

probably, depending on the situation

5. Do those two lenses zoom only internally, or do they get longer, with the centre of gravity therefore altering, as they zoom?

My understanding is that the 16-35 does, the other doesn’t

Both the 20-70 and the 70-200 f/4 G II do get longer when zooming.

6. Does the powered zoom of the 16-35 have any significant impact on battery drain?

imo, no

7. Are one or both of those lenses good enough to warrant buying the A7CR as opposed to the A7Cii?

These lenses are more than good enough imo, but I’d probably stick with the a7cii

8. When shooting 4k video, does a file size constraint on the UHS-II memory card cause video footage to be chopped into multiple files that then have to be recombined into a single one? Or is that only a problem with UHS-I?

not sure

9. For those who have bought the A7Cii or A7CR having had m43 (ideally the OM-1), what have you thought, for good and ill, about the switch?

not applicable to me

10. Again for those with experience of the kit I'm currently using, what is the performance of the 16-35 PZ, 20-70, 50 1.4 and 70-200 f/4 Sony lenses like relative to the three Olympus ones I'm currently using?

Cannot speak from experience, on the one hand, these are higher end lenses, so should notice the difference, at least if cropping or larger screens etc, on the other hand, when you are comparing 1 good lens to another good lens, there is no guarantee that you will like the “better” lens.

I appreciate some people may be able to answer only certain of the questions, but I'm hoping the wisdom of crowds will help me reach a decision.

 

[JALComputing]

My experience is that with larger sensor, higher resolution cameras:

1) One needs to shoot at much higher shutter speeds when pixel peeping, even at the expense of higher ISO.

A7r5 seems to go prove that theory wrong and a1 shoos silently with minimal issue.

You reply with an opinion and no supporting evidence that the A7R5 defies the laws of physics and does not suffer from pixel level blur. The A7R5 has a higher resolution than the A7Cii and is therefore better able to resolve motion/subject blur. To take full advantage of the higher resolution of the A7R5, either printing or viewing at the "pixel" level, requires a higher minimal shutter speed. Of course, the A7R5 prints at the "pixel" level are larger than the A7Cii prints at the "pixel" level

Reference:

https://blog.mingthein.com/2012/11/05/resolution-shot-discipline-image-quality/

2) The zooms are bigger and heavier, leading me to retreat to small primes like the 40 2.5 G and small zooms like the kit 28-60 zoom or the Tamron 20-40 2.8.

The Tamron 28-200 and Sony 24-105 offer similar size-weight to the 12-100 and offer upto 3 stops advantage over it along with 60mp images

Neither of those lenses are equivalent to the 12-100, both are longer and weigh more than the 12-100.

3) You can crop and still get a decent print

Apparently we agree on something.

 

[Mark B UK]

Thanks to everyone, and especially to Peter Foiles, for the answers to my questions. I'm still undecided - very frustrating! Tempted to try running both systems, but hard-won experience has told me that I find doing so confusing - adapting to where the controls are, menu settings etc. First world problems!

 

[alphaZ]

My experience is that with larger sensor, higher resolution cameras:

1) One needs to shoot at much higher shutter speeds when pixel peeping, even at the expense of higher ISO.

A7r5 seems to go prove that theory wrong and a1 shoos silently with minimal issue.

You reply with an opinion and no supporting evidence that the A7R5 defies the laws of physics and does not suffer from pixel level blur. The A7R5 has a higher resolution than the A7Cii and is therefore better able to resolve motion/subject blur. To take full advantage of the higher resolution of the A7R5, either printing or viewing at the "pixel" level, requires a higher minimal shutter speed. Of course, the A7R5 prints at the "pixel" level are larger than the A7Cii prints at the "pixel" level

Reference:

https://blog.mingthein.com/2012/11/05/resolution-shot-discipline-image-quality/

Wow, a bit out of date?

2) The zooms are bigger and heavier, leading me to retreat to small primes like the 40 2.5 G and small zooms like the kit 28-60 zoom or the Tamron 20-40 2.8.

The Tamron 28-200 and Sony 24-105 offer similar size-weight to the 12-100 and offer upto 3 stops advantage over it along with 60mp images

Neither of those lenses are equivalent to the 12-100, both are longer and weigh more than the 12-100.

Really!!

So, just to confirm;

12-100 is a 25mm-209 in 3:2 ratio world!

24-105 f4, = 105-157.5 f6 in aps-c crop mode, and 157.5 - 178 f6.75 in crop 4:3 ratio (cropped back to 3:2 ratio = 20.5mp.) Its a tad wider at the wide angle and a tad shorter in equivalence at the long end cropped to 4:3. 24-105 looks smaller than the 12-100?

28-200 is sligltly longer, but covers well into 300mm in crop and same weight but smaller.

3) You can crop and still get a decent print

Apparently we agree on something.

 

[offtraildog]

I owned many of the Sony bodies starting with the Nex-5 thru A7RV and 30+ lenses.

I take pictures when active outdoors (hiking, backpacking, XC sking, etc) and travel. NO video .. for the occasional video I use my iPhone 13PM

The size of the FF bodies and lenses was growing and wanted something more compact so bought the OM-1, 9/1.7 and 12-40/2.8 Pro II, 40-150/4

Love the ergonomics and handling of the OM-1 and the Live ND feature. Stabilization is very good and I can get sharper images at slower shutter speeds then Sony

I am re-considering going back to Sony for the A7CII or CR because of the increase in dynamic range (I also owned the A7C so am familiar with the body). There are occasions where I run into a threshold on shadow recovery with the OM-1 using C1.

I don't use the High Res mode on the OM-1 for greater dynamic range because the image (after a bunch of testing), needs to be processed first with OM Workspace which is a PITA to use and complicates my PP process.

Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting - Olympus High Res Shot Mode Special Edition

The dust collection on the Sony sensor used to be bad until the A74 and A7RV I owned which had the option to have te shutter cover the sensor. This greatly reduced the sensor dust issues for me. With the OM-1, I have never had to clean the sensor.

The A7CII/R with 20-70 is about the same weight andsize but the balance is more lens heavy when I create a similar kit for the Sony

Compact Camera Meter

Compare unlimited number of cameras with lenses, see how compact or bulky a camera is and sort by height, width, depth and weight.

camerasize.com

I did use a bunch of Sigma Primes with my A7C which is an ideal option for size and IQ but with the lower A7C resolution, I was swapping lenses too often.

With the A7CR, I could see using the 35/1.4 GM instead of the 20-70/4 and cropping since 61MP is more then enough for my digital viewing needs

 

[jimzellmer]

I've managed to capture useful images at 4 seconds using the 12-100. I have not been able to come close to that with Sony full frame bodies and lenses. It certainly could be operator error!

 

[LennyLevino]

I've managed to capture useful images at 4 seconds using the 12-100. I have not been able to come close to that with Sony full frame bodies and lenses. It certainly could be operator error!

I haven't shot with Sony but with my Canon R6 I can get 2 seconds with the 16mm f2.8 and easily 1 second with the 50mm f1.8 (neither lens has built-in stabilization).

With my Nikon Z5 I can't reach nearly the same shutter speeds. I'm guessing Sony's IBIS will be closer to Nikon's (at least on models prior to A7RV).

There was a test by Tony Northrup recently where he compared the new OM camera against the Canon R5 or R6ii and it turned out the Canon actually had better stabilization.

 

[alxkrft]

I'm thinking of buying either an A7Cii or A7CR, coming from -11 years with m43 (currently OM-1, 12-100, 8-25, 25 1.2) and would appreciate input re the questions that will help me decide.

1. How much difference is there in noise and dynamic range between the A7Cii and A7CR at ISOs of 6400 and 12,800?

2. How well protected are these cameras against dust on the sensor, and if there is some, how easy/hard is it to remove?

3. I understand both bodies weigh the same and have the same form factor. Is this correct?

4. If I put a 16-35 f/4 PZ, a 20-70 f/4 or a 50 1.4 (Sony G) on the front of either, when hanging from a strap, will the camera tip forward?

5. Do those two lenses zoom only internally, or do they get longer, with the centre of gravity therefore altering, as they zoom?

6. Does the powered zoom of the 16-35 have any significant impact on battery drain?

7. Are one or both of those lenses good enough to warrant buying the A7CR as opposed to the A7Cii?

8. When shooting 4k video, does a file size constraint on the UHS-II memory card cause video footage to be chopped into multiple files that then have to be recombined into a single one? Or is that only a problem with UHS-I?

9. For those who have bought the A7Cii or A7CR having had m43 (ideally the OM-1), what have you thought, for good and ill, about the switch?

10. Again for those with experience of the kit I'm currently using, what is the performance of the 16-35 PZ, 20-70, 50 1.4 and 70-200 f/4 Sony lenses like relative to the three Olympus ones I'm currently using?

I appreciate some people may be able to answer only certain of the questions, but I'm hoping the wisdom of crowds will help me reach a decision.

regarding 9)

look at my recent thread: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67329773

 

[Fujiuseruk]

Thanks to everyone, and especially to Peter Foiles, for the answers to my questions. I'm still undecided - very frustrating! Tempted to try running both systems, but hard-won experience has told me that I find doing so confusing - adapting to where the controls are, menu settings etc. First world problems!

I’d say put the m4/3 away and stick with the Sony and see if you gel with it , they aren’t for everyone.
I was always a big fan of the A6000 only hoping Sony would make a full frame version so when the A7c came out I got one .
I’ve sold my om5 and just starting to get a few primes .

 

[UncleVanya]

Thanks to everyone, and especially to Peter Foiles, for the answers to my questions. I'm still undecided - very frustrating! Tempted to try running both systems, but hard-won experience has told me that I find doing so confusing - adapting to where the controls are, menu settings etc. First world problems!

Maybe just rent and try one?

 

[ahaslett]

Thanks to everyone, and especially to Peter Foiles, for the answers to my questions. I'm still undecided - very frustrating! Tempted to try running both systems, but hard-won experience has told me that I find doing so confusing - adapting to where the controls are, menu settings etc. First world problems!

I have used MFT and FE together for years. Current bodies are OM1 and A7Riv.

You don’t say why you are attracted to the A7C series or what you shoot. The high ISO advantage of FF sensors is an illusion caused by exposure being defined per unit sensor area. Every photographic property of an image is per image area, so high ISO advantage is just shooting with larger apertures at the same angle of view and less depth of field. Bigger lenses is more light.

Higher base DR means you can capture more light at the same depth of field with longer exposures.

Larger sensors have more DR at base ISO and the A7C bodies have more resolution.

The kit that you want is probably an A7CR with 16-35/4 PZ and Tamron 28-200. Does the cost and weight match the benefits you hope to get? Are you happy with worse IS on the tele end, eating into the exposure advantage?

Both OMDS and Sony bodies are highly configurable and their UI design is converging. Maybe with experience you would learn to use both? Mind I swap a GM1, EM1.1 and OM1 that have many more differences than an OM1 and A7Riv.

In your position I’d be tempted to get an A7CR and a single good prime and see where it takes you alongside an OM1.

Andrew