Pentax and Mirrorless

[photoholiko]

Do you think the new Pentax rumored Mirrorless lens patents means there will be a mirrorless camera by Pentax after all?

Personally, I hope so, I just hope that they don't hire that curtain designer they hired last time who penned the 01 to design the new one.

 

[DougOB]

Do you think the new Pentax rumored Mirrorless lens patents means there will be a mirrorless camera by Pentax after all?

Personally, I hope so, I just hope that they don't hire that curtain designer they hired last time who penned the 01 to design the new one.

What "rumored Mirroless lens patents" are you referring to?

Doug

 

[The Squirrel Mafia]

What "rumored Mirroless lens patents" are you referring to?

Doug

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/479765-new-lens-patent-rumours.html

^ Big thread on Pentax Forums, the but mirrorless part seems to point to a misunderstanding.

 

[James O'Neill]

Do you think the new Pentax rumored Mirrorless lens patents means there will be a mirrorless camera by Pentax after all?

What "rumored Mirroless lens patents" are you referring to?

It was on Pentax forums. I said something and got banned from the thread.

Ricoh filed some lens patents which had "SLR and Mirrorless" in the name.

I think that is just to ensure that if anything is applicable to MILCs Ricoh can still collect a Patent warranty.

I think we probably seen the last Pentax interchangeable lens camera. For all the reasons that have been gone over a million times before Ricoh won't make a MILC and stick a Pentax badge on it.

 

[photoholiko]

I read an article in 'Digital Camera World'

 

[Breakfastographer]

Do you think the new Pentax rumored Mirrorless lens patents means there will be a mirrorless camera by Pentax after all?

What "rumored Mirroless lens patents" are you referring to?

It was on Pentax forums. I said something and got banned from the thread.

Ricoh filed some lens patents which had "SLR and Mirrorless" in the name.

I think that is just to ensure that if anything is applicable to MILCs Ricoh can still collect a Patent warranty.

I think we probably seen the last Pentax interchangeable lens camera. For all the reasons that have been gone over a million times before Ricoh won't make a MILC and stick a Pentax badge on it.

I had to recently contend (again) with the notion of "mirrorless technology". Consumers apparently struggle heavily with disentangling live view features from the presence of an EVF (or, in the worst case, its absence)

I remember how we went through this with IBIS, everybody parroting (and amplifying) CaNikon marketing saying lens-based stabilisation was universally better and IBIS didn't do much.

I have a bet going with myself that one day, someone will voluntarily self-identify as believing that DSLRs couldn't support IBIS and so the industry was forced to switch to mirrorless.

 

[Mistral75]

I read an article in 'Digital Camera World'

Is Pentax finally going mirrorless?

Patent suggests Pentax follows Nikon & Co entering the mirrorless lens market – Let's analyse, discuss Pentax's next move, and what's in for us

www.digitalcameraworld.com

I wrote a response to this article. Take a look at the comments - two of them are mine (I had to split my answer in two).

 

[zakaria]

Pentax or Ricoh would be better off catching up. There will be no more electronics for slrs cameras, nor will there be any mechanical parts. I hope Pentax gets over the idea that they invented the reflex mirror and catch up with the rest of the companies. Great car manufacturers will not stop at the idea of a fossil fuel engine. Everyone is racing towards electric cars. Pentax also needs to get rid of its analog legacy and go completely digital. It's simple: start with a camera and one 50mm lens with an adapter, or join the L group.

 

[Gman58]

Totally agree.

 

[motiwala]

What "rumored Mirroless lens patents" are you referring to?

Doug

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/479765-new-lens-patent-rumours.html

^ Big thread on Pentax Forums, the but mirrorless part seems to point to a misunderstanding.

Looks like pentaxforums is down, unable to access.

Update: accessible now

A few pics here
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/ymotiwala/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/frozenents

 

[foot]

Pentax or Ricoh would be better off catching up. There will be no more electronics for slrs cameras, nor will there be any mechanical parts. I hope Pentax gets over the idea that they invented the reflex mirror and catch up with the rest of the companies. Great car manufacturers will not stop at the idea of a fossil fuel engine. Everyone is racing towards electric cars. Pentax also needs to get rid of its analog legacy and go completely digital. It's simple: start with a camera and one 50mm lens with an adapter, or join the L group.

the mirrorless market is too crowded with quality competitive products

what could Pentax offer to differentiate itself?

any new Pentax mirrorless body would require all the Pentax users to buy entirely new gear. Plus many desired lenses wouldn't appear at launch so customers would have to wait for Pentax to develop and release them....while Pentax is waiting to see if there are enough customers to justify that

plus there are reasons people stayed with their Pentax gear that maybe wouldn't want a mirrorless camera since that would mean not having their desired features (large viewfinder? larger body?)

going L mount would be interesting, not sure what the royalty cost would be

 

[egk4260]

Pentax or Ricoh would be better off catching up. There will be no more electronics for slrs cameras, nor will there be any mechanical parts. I hope Pentax gets over the idea that they invented the reflex mirror and catch up with the rest of the companies. Great car manufacturers will not stop at the idea of a fossil fuel engine. Everyone is racing towards electric cars. Pentax also needs to get rid of its analog legacy and go completely digital. It's simple: start with a camera and one 50mm lens with an adapter, or join the L group.

the mirrorless market is too crowded with quality competitive products

what could Pentax offer to differentiate itself?

any new Pentax mirrorless body would require all the Pentax users to buy entirely new gear. Plus many desired lenses wouldn't appear at launch so customers would have to wait for Pentax to develop and release them....while Pentax is waiting to see if there are enough customers to justify that

plus there are reasons people stayed with their Pentax gear that maybe wouldn't want a mirrorless camera since that would mean not having their desired features (large viewfinder? larger body?)

going L mount would be interesting, not sure what the royalty cost would be

I read the L mount thought, but how does Pentax go L mount? I believe L mount lenses are designed for mirrorless bodies with a flange distance that is physically incompatible with a DSLR. Does Ricoh introduce a mirrorless Pentax with L mount, L mount versions of their current lenses but that require adapter to work on existing K mount Pentax DSLR, or a K to L adapter to allow use of Pentax lenses on other L mount bodies. It seems neither current Pentax users or Ricoh gain much from any of these options. I sometimes wonder if the realistic window for a Pentax mirrorless was at time of K3-iii release (instead of or in addition to), beating the APSC Nikon Zfc to the market by a couple months; rather than a D500 competitor just a couple months before it was officially discontinued.

 

[motiwala]

I agree.

To be honest, Pentax doesn’t seem interested in taking any steps forward. They have limited resources compared to the big players, and even that is being spent on DSLRs and cameras like a half-frame film camera no one really asked for. Might be for nostalgia’s sake, but it’s hardly strategic.

And I wonder, why not just use the K-mount to begin with, even if it means a slightly projected mount due to the longer flange distance. It’s not ideal, but it would let users keep their existing lenses and give Pentax an easy way into mirrorless without alienating their base. Nikon did something similar with F-to-Z, and it worked.

They’ve already shown solid IBIS, FF, and they still have a loyal user base. All they needed was the will to evolve — but sadly, that seems to be missing.

 

[bob5050]

Pentax or Ricoh would be better off catching up. [...] It's simple: start with a camera and one 50mm lens with an adapter, or join the L group.

Actually, I don't think it is simple, and might not be possible at all.

The analogy here would be the downfall of the Swiss watch industry when it failed to jump on the digital revolution, summarized in this apt sentence: "being the best at what we do can be a liability if it hinders our ability to adapt to what is coming;"

While Pentax did respond (at last) to the transition from film to digital, that was made possible largely because they didn't have to develop their own sensors: Sony was interested in becoming the sensor fab for the entire industry, and Pentax could buy the sensors it needed to catch up.

But where is it going to simply acquire state-of-the-art viewfinder and camera-back display screens? Those aren't off-the-shelf items. And how much of the camera can be out-sourced and still be competitive/profitable?

Finally, having lost its top-tier status as a result of the slow transition to digital, where is it going to get the money it would need to revamp its lens catalog in this market?

Perhaps if Pentax had attempted to fix/rethink rather than abandon the botched K-01 we'd be in a different place.

I'm one of those who loves the OVF/dSLR shooting experience, and know of nothing that I'd prefer to my K-3iii. I'm not looking around or thinking about transitioning. But I'm not kidding myself that that's the future, either.

 

[egk4260]

I agree.

To be honest, Pentax doesn’t seem interested in taking any steps forward. They have limited resources compared to the big players, and even that is being spent on DSLRs and cameras like a half-frame film camera no one really asked for. Might be for nostalgia’s sake, but it’s hardly strategic.

And I wonder, why not just use the K-mount to begin with, even if it means a slightly projected mount due to the longer flange distance. It’s not ideal, but it would let users keep their existing lenses and give Pentax an easy way into mirrorless without alienating their base. Nikon did something similar with F-to-Z, and it worked.

They’ve already shown solid IBIS, FF, and they still have a loyal user base. All they needed was the will to evolve — but sadly, that seems to be missing.

Whatever they do will need to be very intriguing. Nothing from anyone seems to generate the buzz of years past. Canon and Sony seem to own the market regardless of what they release. Nikon has some nice gear, but not sure they are gaining market share. Fuji keeps releasing gear with a lot of hype, but is not gaining market share either. Ricoh knows that the Pentax label has a tiny market share and any exciting new release would need to find traction at the expense of the others.

 

[photoholiko]

I'm wondering if it would be that difficult for Pentax to acquire EVF, Back screens, 4k etc. where are all these new Chinese cameras are getting them without difficulties? Pentax made the 01 using excising lens mount. Where there's a will, there's a way!

 

[Paultee]

This like asking a person in a coma on life support when they're going to be joining you for tennis.

 

[bob5050]

I'm wondering if it would be that difficult for Pentax to acquire EVF, Back screens, 4k etc. where are all these new Chinese cameras are getting them without difficulties? Pentax made the 01 using excising lens mount. Where there's a will, there's a way!

If acquiring a top notch EVF (and the supporting software) were a feasible option, wouldn't you have expected a model of the GR sporting one?

 

[tilted_horizon]

Is Takahashi still the CEO? If so, any discussion of mirrorless is pointless. Here's what he said in an interview from Dec 2020:

"It is said that even if it is a Pentax, it should be mirrorless. We also have that technology, but we abandon the enjoyment of a single-lens reflex camera that looks directly into the finder to see the subject. I can not do it."

He's anti-EVF, so end of story as long as he's in charge.

https://pentaxrumors.com/2020/12/28...ld-be-mirrorless-i-cannot-do-it/?noamp=mobile

 

[egk4260]

Is Takahashi still the CEO? If so, any discussion of mirrorless is pointless. Here's what he said in an interview from Dec 2020:

"It is said that even if it is a Pentax, it should be mirrorless. We also have that technology, but we abandon the enjoyment of a single-lens reflex camera that looks directly into the finder to see the subject. I can not do it."

He's anti-EVF, so end of story as long as he has his job.

https://pentaxrumors.com/2020/12/28...ld-be-mirrorless-i-cannot-do-it/?noamp=mobile

Five years, 2020, is a long time ago in the camera world. That interview occurred before his (?now discontinued?) K3-iii was even formally announced. He was certainly not going to doom his flagship DSLR even before release. Was he actually anti EVF or just doing his job as CEO in putting forward a philosophy advancing products he actually had? It is perhaps reminiscent of a prominent US airline which for decades had a corporate philosophy, mantra, and even identity that “bags fly free”, until suddenly they didn’t!