Now I'm having problems with reds

[Jaelkay]

SPP software seems to be the problem.

The image first seen during loading into SPP2.5 looks fine.



But when loaded, it looks washed out and the reds are all out of whack.



Final image is from the D200, converted from RAW to jpg in Nikon Capture. Colours are as close to normal as I remember.



I think I'm going to hang the SD14 up for a while and get on with some photograpny.

Nearly 12 months on, and I'm still trying to get acceptable colours out of the Sigma. Damned shame, because when it does nail the colours and exposure, the images are spectacular.

JK

 

[Brian Mosley]

Would you mind sending me a copy of your RAW file? I'm using Qimage Studio, and I want to see whether it produces more accurate colours.

Still eagerly awaiting 3rd party RAW converter support for the DP1... in the hope I can achieve more accurate colours.

Kind Regards

Brian
--
Safari Group Leopard Event another HUGE SUCCESS. Register now for next event.



Out now! Roel Hendrickx Safari Group Field Report from Tunisia :
http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html
Archive of UK Photo Safari Group Field Reports : http://www.ukphotosafari.org

 

[Guenter Borgemeister]

It is very easy to tweak the reds there to your liking.

SPP software seems to be the problem.

The image first seen during loading into SPP2.5 looks fine.



But when loaded, it looks washed out and the reds are all out of whack.



Final image is from the D200, converted from RAW to jpg in Nikon
Capture. Colours are as close to normal as I remember.



I think I'm going to hang the SD14 up for a while and get on with
some photograpny.

Nearly 12 months on, and I'm still trying to get acceptable colours
out of the Sigma. Damned shame, because when it does nail the colours
and exposure, the images are spectacular.

JK

--



http://swiss-landmarks.ch • http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt • http://wohntattoos.de

 

[SandyF]

It is very easy to tweak the reds there to your liking.

just as an fyi for readers, Photoshop Elements v5 supports ACR4.1; v4 too even I think supports ACR4.1, thus not just Lightroom, with the color adjustment.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[Jaelkay]

It is very easy to tweak the reds there to your liking.

Not as easy at it seems.

I tried to pull them back to something like the original but failed.

Why does the jpg, as it is being loaded, look about right, only to convert to something as out of whack as the finally loaded RAW image?

JK

 

[Guenter Borgemeister]

Not as easy at it seems.

Well, maybe it needs some trying.

I tried to pull them back to something like the original but failed.

Can you make the RAW available?

Why does the jpg, as it is being loaded, look about right, only to
convert to something as out of whack as the finally loaded RAW image?

Thats, because you first see the inCamera-JPEG and then the converted RAW file.

There is a tool to extract the embedded JPG from the RAWS, just do a search.

--



http://swiss-landmarks.ch • http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt • http://wohntattoos.de

 

[SandyF]

JK, reds are probably the hardest color for any camera (see Mike Chaney's articles) Red tulips are kind of notorious too for being difficult. I photographed some yesterday, they're a tad too pink on DP1 with SPP2.5. If I really wanted to get it 'perfect' I'd save the photo as a TIFF (or JPEG) and take it into PSElements5/ACR4.1 and work with the red color channel.

BTW, each photo which loads for me, I essentially see almost exactly the SAME colors, everything while loading and after loading when my selection is the X3F bullet NOT the auto or custom bullet. That's what the X3F view means ....the X3F view and it's very, very similar to the embedded JPEG I see while it's loading.
This is true on all my cameras, SD9, SD10, SD14, DP1.

NOTE well: I usually shoot on a fixed white balance and load that fixed white balance. For example, I have sunlight wb set on camera. I load the photo, it shows me the sunlight white balance. Almost exact match, embedded JPEG = X3F view.

BUT: IF I take a picture with AUTO white balance in camera (my red tulips yesterday, that was a mistake actually, I'd been shooting indoors and did not change the wb when I went outdoors) AND have my tags re-set on that photo to sunlight, the view I see while loading (the embedded taken with auto wb) IS a greater degree of difference to what I see after loading (photo is in sunlight wb in the SOFTWARE. This makes a difference. I just did it with a red tulip photo.

This is why I've been writing for months that WHITE BALANCE matters, both in-camera and in software! X3F bullet vs center auto processing bullet vs custom processing bullet.... all have different meanings and effects. Custom will remain at the last adjustment you just made, say on another photo. The center selection 'auto processing' think of as 'suggested' sliders. But it's only a starting point and now I seldom use it. I start with the X3F. But my WHITE BALANCE in camera and in software matter enormously. Sorry to shout, but I've been writing the same response for months it seems.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[SandyF]

here's a link in this post by Ed Squires

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=27667108&q=bainbridge&qf=m
for Gary Bainbridge's extractor for embedded JPEGs .. this is for SDx X3F files.
I don't believe anyone has published one for the DP1 X3F files

Chris Rijk wrote some weeks ago he might, if there was interest, but I don't think anyone responded to him...

Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[Jaelkay]

JK, reds are probably the hardest color for any camera (see Mike
Chaney's articles) Red tulips are kind of notorious too for being
difficult. I photographed some yesterday, they're a tad too pink on
DP1 with SPP2.5. If I really wanted to get it 'perfect' I'd save the
photo as a TIFF (or JPEG) and take it into PSElements5/ACR4.1 and
work with the red color channel.

Worked just fine in the original jpg, as seen when loading the image. Turned to mush when finally loaded.

The Nikon handled it OK.

BTW, each photo which loads for me, I essentially see almost exactly
the SAME colors, everything while loading and after loading when my
selection is the X3F bullet NOT the auto or custom bullet. That's
what the X3F view means ....the X3F view and it's very, very similar
to the embedded JPEG I see while it's loading.
This is true on all my cameras, SD9, SD10, SD14, DP1.

All I ever see is the X3F bullet. In any case, it would make NO difference as I have ALL camera settings at zip.

NOTE well: I usually shoot on a fixed white balance and load that
fixed white balance. For example, I have sunlight wb set on camera. I
load the photo, it shows me the sunlight white balance. Almost exact
match, embedded JPEG = X3F view.

Sunlight WB turns everything a lovely shade of blue. Dreadful.

BUT: IF I take a picture with AUTO white balance in camera (my red
tulips yesterday, that was a mistake actually, I'd been shooting
indoors and did not change the wb when I went outdoors) AND have my
tags re-set on that photo to sunlight, the view I see while loading
(the embedded taken with auto wb) IS a greater degree of difference
to what I see after loading (photo is in sunlight wb in the SOFTWARE.
This makes a difference. I just did it with a red tulip photo.

This is why I've been writing for months that WHITE BALANCE matters,
both in-camera and in software! X3F bullet vs center auto processing
bullet vs custom processing bullet.... all have different meanings
and effects. Custom will remain at the last adjustment you just made,
say on another photo. The center selection 'auto processing' think of
as 'suggested' sliders. But it's only a starting point and now I
seldom use it. I start with the X3F. But my WHITE BALANCE in camera
and in software matter enormously. Sorry to shout, but I've been
writing the same response for months it seems.

And I've teen telling you for months that your "sunlight WB" is not chicken soup already. It does NOT fix all problems. It introduces another set of problems.

Auto white balance should work. That's why it's there.

Custom white balance should work too, but it does not. Custom balance is a crock. I have a perfectly measured 18% grey card which is perfect on all other camera brands, but on the SD14 it too, turns everything a dreadful shade of blue.

JK

Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[Jaelkay]

Not as easy at it seems.

Well, maybe it needs some trying.

I tried to pull them back to something like the original but failed.

Can you make the RAW available?

Why does the jpg, as it is being loaded, look about right, only to
convert to something as out of whack as the finally loaded RAW image?

Thats, because you first see the inCamera-JPEG and then the converted
RAW file.

I know that. I'm asking WHY the colours and exposure go out of whack when finally loaded.

There is a tool to extract the embedded JPG from the RAWS, just do a
search.

I've got the tool. It doesn't solve any problems.

If I wanted to shoot jpgs, there are better cameras I could have bought.

JK

--



http://swiss-landmarks.ch • http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt •
http://wohntattoos.de

 

[SandyF]

JK, someone whose judgement I think is better than mine about cameras has written you that he thinks your particular camera is out-of-whack color wise. I've posted that to you several times too.

Sunlight should not turn stuff blue by the way.

I'm trying to tell you what a properly functioning camera... and proper settings... do and act.

Your settings aren't at 'zip' .... you have Auto wb I can see on the screen shots. That adds variables! Auto wb is a whole kettle of variables!

I'd suggest you communicate (email and RAWs) with Guenter, who has offered to look at your RAW. He knows a lot more than you or I, I think, about color and the X3F files.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[Jaelkay]

JK, someone whose judgement I think is better than mine about cameras
has written you that he thinks your particular camera is out-of-whack
color wise. I've posted that to you several times too.

Sunlight should not turn stuff blue by the way.
I'm trying to tell you what a properly functioning camera... and
proper settings... do and act.

Your settings aren't at 'zip' .... you have Auto wb I can see on the
screen shots. That adds variables! Auto wb is a whole kettle of
variables!

All other settings are indeed at zip. I want auto wb to work. You don't seem to understand that little consideration.

I'd suggest you communicate (email and RAWs) with Guenter, who has
offered to look at your RAW. He knows a lot more than you or I, I
think, about color and the X3F files.

I've sent it off to he and one other.

Sandy, I have been processing digital images since 1996, (Kodak DCS, Canon, Nikon, Leica) and have never had any problems such as I am having with this thing.

JK

Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[Guenter Borgemeister]

I have a perfectly measured 18% grey card which is
perfect on all other camera brands, but on the SD14 it too, turns
everything a dreadful shade of blue.

Seems your camera is defective.
I would contact Sigma.

In any case, if you send me a RAW-file, I can tell you whats going on with your cam.
Best would be to shoot a graycard with Sun and custom WB and send both.

--



http://swiss-landmarks.ch • http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt • http://wohntattoos.de

 

[Jaelkay]

I have a perfectly measured 18% grey card which is
perfect on all other camera brands, but on the SD14 it too, turns
everything a dreadful shade of blue.

Seems your camera is defective.
I would contact Sigma.

I've tried that with Sigma in Japan, but their communication just dried up. The Australian distributors are pretty ordinary. I've sent gear back to them and it takes weeks to have it returned to be told "it is working within specification."

In any case, if you send me a RAW-file, I can tell you whats going on
with your cam.

I've don that. You should have it soon.

Best would be to shoot a graycard with Sun and custom WB and send both.

I'll do that tomorrow. Bit dark here at the moment ;-)

JK

--



http://swiss-landmarks.ch • http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt •
http://wohntattoos.de

 

[SandyF]

I always shoot the SD10 at sunlight white balance. It's the best setting, best color.

I started doing that with the SD14 and found it way too yellow.
So I switched to auto white balance 99% of the time.

Guys here who know these cameras much better than I recommended I use a fixed white balance. Sunlight wb in sunlight... I'm stubborn, I said, "nope, too yellow."

But that wb color changed somewhat with firmware updates; the SD14 has changed several times since March 2007 launch IMHO. Sunlight wb is now (April 2008) different than it was initially; it's the best choice for sunlight conditions outdoors I think, I agree after Death Valley:

I shot 11GB of photos at Death Valley in auto white balance. Each darn one is slightly different from the other. I'd turn a slight angle, different color. Slight turn again. Different color.

I learned that... the guys who said use sunlight wb as a fixed starting point... are RIGHT. From a fixed starting point, you can adjust your color if necessary. Think about how Guenter, stanislaw, Laurence, just for starters about pano's, get those consistent colors across 10's and 10's of photos... I doubt if it's in an auto white balance.

Thus I'm now at sunlight wb outdoors, all cameras. Auto indoors or in tricky, mixed light.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

my learning about auto white balance pano; think about what's going on in this photo... http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann/2280382034/in/set-72157603952783128/

 

[Jaelkay]

I always shoot the SD10 at sunlight white balance. It's the best
setting, best color.

I started doing that with the SD14 and found it way too yellow.
So I switched to auto white balance 99% of the time.

Guys here who know these cameras much better than I recommended I use
a fixed white balance. Sunlight wb in sunlight... I'm stubborn, I
said, "nope, too yellow."

But that wb color changed somewhat with firmware updates; the SD14
has changed several times since March 2007 launch IMHO. Sunlight wb
is now (April 2008) different than it was initially; it's the best
choice for sunlight conditions outdoors I think, I agree after Death
Valley:

I shot 11GB of photos at Death Valley in auto white balance. Each
darn one is slightly different from the other. I'd turn a slight
angle, different color. Slight turn again. Different color.

I learned that... the guys who said use sunlight wb as a fixed
starting point... are RIGHT. From a fixed starting point, you can
adjust your color if necessary. Think about how Guenter, stanislaw,
Laurence, just for starters about pano's, get those consistent colors
across 10's and 10's of photos... I doubt if it's in an auto white
balance.

Thus I'm now at sunlight wb outdoors, all cameras. Auto indoors or in
tricky, mixed light.

I'm pleased it works for you. It does not for me.

I will take some images tomorrow, using a mix of auto, preset wb and custom wb and post the results.

One strange thing I have noticed, is that if I get rid of the UV filter, the colours are a little better and a little less green.

Never did like filters anyway.

JK

Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

my learning about auto white balance pano; think about what's going
on in this photo...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann/2280382034/in/set-72157603952783128/

 

[SandyF]

Jaelkay wrote:
...

I'm pleased it works for you. It does not for me.

I will take some images tomorrow, using a mix of auto, preset wb and
custom wb and post the results.

One strange thing I have noticed, is that if I get rid of the UV
filter, the colours are a little better and a little less green.

Never did like filters anyway.

I wrote the above 'backgrounder' for other readers, ref how important white balance is, as well as to see what it's doing and how to process. For most people, including me, a lot of color mystery is simply white balance. Of course if your individual camera is out of specs, that's a different situation. This can best be judged by someone who really knows/works with various SDx/DP1 cameras' RAWs; thus I rely on the opinions of certain very experienced posters here...

BTW, Guenter posted some weeks ago that he thinks my particular SD14 is a bit green/yellow, something I've always felt too. He has two, which don't produce exactly the same output, he posted. It just is kind of comforting to have mine's color confirmation; I don't feel as bad whacking more magenta into my color wheel. So I think there is some variation between cameras, maybe it's the sensors, that would not be very surprising if you think about it. With mine I just adjust my processing (ie on the SD14 go heavy handed with the magenta).

But my DP1 does shoot differently (color) than my SD14. Now I'm concentrating on understanding the differences between them. If anything, I take AWAY magenta from the DP1/sunlight wb usually.... funny kind of, after my year's processing habits with the SD14. I don't think ANY camera will pop out perfect color all of the time in all situations: backlight, sidelight, different light during the day and around the world. Death Valley is very different 'light' than our murky, hazy, humid east coast US for example.

Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[Jaelkay]

I'm pleased it works for you. It does not for me.

I will take some images tomorrow, using a mix of auto, preset wb and
custom wb and post the results.

One strange thing I have noticed, is that if I get rid of the UV
filter, the colours are a little better and a little less green.

Never did like filters anyway.

I wrote the above 'backgrounder' for other readers, ref how important
white balance is, as well as to see what it's doing and how to
process. For most people, including me, a lot of color mystery is
simply white balance. Of course if your individual camera is out of
specs, that's a different situation. This can best be judged by
someone who really knows/works with various SDx/DP1 cameras' RAWs;
thus I rely on the opinions of certain very experienced posters
here...

BTW, Guenter posted some weeks ago that he thinks my particular
SD14 is a bit green/yellow, something I've always felt too. He has
two, which don't produce exactly the same output, he posted. It just
is kind of comforting to have mine's color confirmation; I don't feel
as bad whacking more magenta into my color wheel. So I think there
is some variation between cameras, maybe it's the sensors, that
would not be very surprising if you think about it. With mine I just
adjust my processing (ie on the SD14 go heavy handed with the
magenta).

But my DP1 does shoot differently (color) than my SD14. Now I'm
concentrating on understanding the differences between them. If
anything, I take AWAY magenta from the DP1/sunlight wb usually....
funny kind of, after my year's processing habits with the SD14. I
don't think ANY camera will pop out perfect color all of the time in
all situations: backlight, sidelight, different light during the day
and around the world. Death Valley is very different 'light' than our
murky, hazy, humid east coast US for example.

That's all fine and dandy, Sandy, but you've lost sight of the fact the jpg (the first image I see in SPP) is perfectly coloured and perfectly exposed. The final image, after the RAW is loaded, is where the problems exist.

If the camera can get the jpg right, and the RAW is all manky, that would suggest there is a software problem somewhere withing the RAW engine.

I am not the only person who is experiencing these problems. Unfortunately a lot of others with the same problem feel somewhat reluctant to report their problems for fear of being ridiculed.

I am simply trying to get to the problem of a very, very annoying problem.

JK

Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[SandyF]

I'm pleased it works for you. It does not for me.

I will take some images tomorrow, using a mix of auto, preset wb and
custom wb and post the results.

One strange thing I have noticed, is that if I get rid of the UV
filter, the colours are a little better and a little less green.

Never did like filters anyway.

I wrote the above 'backgrounder' for other readers, ref how important
white balance is, as well as to see what it's doing and how to
process. For most people, including me, a lot of color mystery is
simply white balance. Of course if your individual camera is out of
specs, that's a different situation. This can best be judged by
someone who really knows/works with various SDx/DP1 cameras' RAWs;
thus I rely on the opinions of certain very experienced posters
here...

BTW, Guenter posted some weeks ago that he thinks my particular
SD14 is a bit green/yellow, something I've always felt too. He has
two, which don't produce exactly the same output, he posted. It just
is kind of comforting to have mine's color confirmation; I don't feel
as bad whacking more magenta into my color wheel. So I think there
is some variation between cameras, maybe it's the sensors, that
would not be very surprising if you think about it. With mine I just
adjust my processing (ie on the SD14 go heavy handed with the
magenta).

But my DP1 does shoot differently (color) than my SD14. Now I'm
concentrating on understanding the differences between them. If
anything, I take AWAY magenta from the DP1/sunlight wb usually....
funny kind of, after my year's processing habits with the SD14. I
don't think ANY camera will pop out perfect color all of the time in
all situations: backlight, sidelight, different light during the day
and around the world. Death Valley is very different 'light' than our
murky, hazy, humid east coast US for example.

That's all fine and dandy, Sandy, but you've lost sight of the fact
the jpg (the first image I see in SPP) is perfectly coloured and
perfectly exposed. The final image, after the RAW is loaded, is where
the problems exist.

This is why I've been harping that it's a problem with your settings. It is not normal to see the big change between embedded and the X3F view. Over and over, I see only very slight difference. As we were initially posting this morning/evening (US eastern time vs your Aust. time zone)

I reconfirmed. VERY VERY little difference between my 'first view' and the loaded view. I happen to have SPP2.5 open. But it's the same in SPP2.4 and was in SPP3.0 and SPP2.3 and SPP2.1, all the way back to 2004 with my SD10 when I first figured out the difference between the X3F bullet... the auto bullet... the custom bullet. And I didn't understand them right away, which is why I think some SDx/DP1 users do not understand the differences: what they are and what they do.

If the camera can get the jpg right, and the RAW is all manky, that
would suggest there is a software problem somewhere withing the RAW
engine.

RAW is RAW, I don't have the problems (and most users don't) except my RAWs on the SD14 do tend toward the green/yellow/cyan that I have also seen in yours. But I just balance my colors! not hard. I don't process each and every photo, I keep all my RAWs and only 'process' to completion those individual photos I either want to upload online and/or print. For online, I'll do a med size JPEG; for a large print, I'll usually do a TIFF. Thus when I 'process' a photo I really like and want multiple use of, I'll usually do it in several different versions and size/type files.

I am not the only person who is experiencing these problems.
Unfortunately a lot of others with the same problem feel somewhat
reluctant to report their problems for fear of being ridiculed.

Again, for most I think it's an understanding of color, processing, and white balance. I don't hesitate about asking questions; I've gnashed my teeth so to speak often enough with processing questions. I've never hesitated speaking up in class asking questions or being 'foolish.'

I am simply trying to get to the problem of a very, very annoying
problem.

People tend to lump a lot of 'annoying problems' together. Thus it's useful to see photos and to understand the settings, which are so, so important. So many variables. And so many levels of experience here. It's the same in any discussion group or 'tech support.' In my work (tech support essentially) I deal with people who range from barely knowing how to turn on a computer to those who've written software or practically invented the Internet (no not Al Gore, there are others who really were instrumental though... networking, telecom, all that, LOL)

For guys who've compiled databases, I respond in a bit more detail than to folks who've just started using a computer. Really!
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[Jaelkay]

I'm pleased it works for you. It does not for me.

I will take some images tomorrow, using a mix of auto, preset wb and
custom wb and post the results.

One strange thing I have noticed, is that if I get rid of the UV
filter, the colours are a little better and a little less green.

Never did like filters anyway.

I wrote the above 'backgrounder' for other readers, ref how important
white balance is, as well as to see what it's doing and how to
process. For most people, including me, a lot of color mystery is
simply white balance. Of course if your individual camera is out of
specs, that's a different situation. This can best be judged by
someone who really knows/works with various SDx/DP1 cameras' RAWs;
thus I rely on the opinions of certain very experienced posters
here...

BTW, Guenter posted some weeks ago that he thinks my particular
SD14 is a bit green/yellow, something I've always felt too. He has
two, which don't produce exactly the same output, he posted. It just
is kind of comforting to have mine's color confirmation; I don't feel
as bad whacking more magenta into my color wheel. So I think there
is some variation between cameras, maybe it's the sensors, that
would not be very surprising if you think about it. With mine I just
adjust my processing (ie on the SD14 go heavy handed with the
magenta).

But my DP1 does shoot differently (color) than my SD14. Now I'm
concentrating on understanding the differences between them. If
anything, I take AWAY magenta from the DP1/sunlight wb usually....
funny kind of, after my year's processing habits with the SD14. I
don't think ANY camera will pop out perfect color all of the time in
all situations: backlight, sidelight, different light during the day
and around the world. Death Valley is very different 'light' than our
murky, hazy, humid east coast US for example.

That's all fine and dandy, Sandy, but you've lost sight of the fact
the jpg (the first image I see in SPP) is perfectly coloured and
perfectly exposed. The final image, after the RAW is loaded, is where
the problems exist.

This is why I've been harping that it's a problem with your settings.
It is not normal to see the big change between embedded and the X3F
view. Over and over, I see only very slight difference. As we were
initially posting this morning/evening (US eastern time vs your
Aust. time zone)

Then you're very lucky.

I reconfirmed. VERY VERY little difference between my 'first view'
and the loaded view. I happen to have SPP2.5 open. But it's the same
in SPP2.4 and was in SPP3.0 and SPP2.3 and SPP2.1, all the way back
to 2004 with my SD10 when I first figured out the difference between
the X3F bullet... the auto bullet... the custom bullet. And I didn't
understand them right away, which is why I think some SDx/DP1 users
do not understand the differences: what they are and what they do.

I see. You still consider me to be some sort of dullard, huh? No clues this end, huh?

If the camera can get the jpg right, and the RAW is all manky, that
would suggest there is a software problem somewhere withing the RAW
engine.

RAW is RAW, I don't have the problems (and most users don't) except
my RAWs on the SD14 do tend toward the green/yellow/cyan that I have
also seen in yours. But I just balance my colors! not hard. I don't
process each and every photo, I keep all my RAWs and only 'process'
to completion those individual photos I either want to upload online
and/or print. For online, I'll do a med size JPEG; for a large print,
I'll usually do a TIFF. Thus when I 'process' a photo I really like
and want multiple use of, I'll usually do it in several different
versions and size/type files.

Well, I do have the problem. As do many others.

I am not the only person who is experiencing these problems.
Unfortunately a lot of others with the same problem feel somewhat
reluctant to report their problems for fear of being ridiculed.

Again, for most I think it's an understanding of color, processing,
and white balance. I don't hesitate about asking questions; I've
gnashed my teeth so to speak often enough with processing questions.
I've never hesitated speaking up in class asking questions or being
'foolish.'

I am simply trying to get to the problem of a very, very annoying
problem.

People tend to lump a lot of 'annoying problems' together. Thus it's
useful to see photos and to understand the settings, which are so, so
important. So many variables. And so many levels of experience here.
It's the same in any discussion group or 'tech support.' In my work
(tech support essentially) I deal with people who range from barely
knowing how to turn on a computer to those who've written software or
practically invented the Internet (no not Al Gore, there are others
who really were instrumental though... networking, telecom, all that,
LOL)

I see. You're lumping me in with technologically challenged persons now, huh?

For guys who've compiled databases, I respond in a bit more detail
than to folks who've just started using a computer. Really!

Don't suppose a degree in Mathematics and Computing might be any advantage to me, huh?

Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann