The Auto Shutter was Nikon's lame attempt to fix the VR issue with a firmware update.
Really? Every camera experiences shutter shock to some degree, and EFC shutter is a common solution to this.
When I first bought the Z6 it didn't have the Auto feature just Mechanical and EFCS, also Canon EOS R and Sony a7iii does not have this Auto Shutter option.
So Sony makes you do it manually, and my Canon EOS RP has a totally bastardly implementation, and Fuji only offers EFCS on two models. And yet I've been shooting with all those cameras without any problems. Complaining about Nikon is even more ridiculous because it's probably the best solution.
Yes EFCS has a lot of limitations, especially banding when using with strobes / flashes and indoor light. Also you cannot shoot fast moving objects with EFCS.
How is that? The electronic first curtain moves with the same speed as the mechanical shutter. There are known effects on bokeh and noise but those are negligent, and so far I haven't seen anybody did the measurements for Nikon anyways.
You can search the internet EFCS disadvantages, some say even raw files are affected.
For example?
This is not the normal shutter shock, this only happens when using Mechanical Shutter + VR on. The images made with Mechanical Shutter + VR off are sharper than the ones with VR on (handheld and tripod), see on the mini site in my signature.
This is exactly normal shutter shock. The stabilization system, whether optical or IBIS, more often the latter, is responsible for exacerbating the problem at certain frequencies. The first cameras that experienced that were Olympus, when they first introduced IBIS and that's when it became a favorite discussion topic. By now everybody should have heard about the effect of the shutter shock on IBIS.
No... Sony does not have this problem when shooting with a Mechanical Shutter + VR on and it does not need the Auto Shutter.
You obviously don't have experience with Sony. It does have the same problem. The difference though is that Sony IBIS is very inefficient, so the contribution of IBIS is also less pronounced. But Sony's shutters have been pretty strong and noisy, so likely producing more mechanical shock. Sony also won't switch automatically to the mechanical shutter at high SS, which comes with its own problems. When I shot with A7iii I was always using the EFCS, which is on by default.
Shooting with EFCS is the photographers choice in what he needs.
EFCS doesn't move at the same high speed and also not in the same style.
Whoa, where did you get that? Not only it does move at the same speed as mechanical, it must or you are screwed.
The Electronic Shutter on these cameras move pixel by pixel, one line at a time,
You are confused and obviously don't know the physics of these processes. The EFCS only resets the capacitors, which can be very fast, the second mechanical shutter is what is responsible for correct exposure. Readout is not a problem, because the second shutter remains close as long as necessary to finish.
producing the banding effect when using strobes/flashes or with some indoor lights. Also for high speed photos the EFCS cannot keep with the Mechanical Shutter and produces the rolling shutter effect.
If you look at a thread here called "Z firmware wishlist" you will see that the first on that list is "- fix the banding" - banding appears if you use EFCS, only fix for the future cameras is to add a global shutter and not a rolling shutter. But with the Z6 and Z7 the only way to avoid banding is to use the Mechanical Shutter.
If that is exactly normal shutter shock, how come the d850 + VR lens
The D850 has much higher mass than the Z6, so I'd expect it to be more stable in hands. That's pretty normal.
or the Sony a7iii don't have it, see my tests on the site, same situation same settings. You are talking from the past with Olympus and yes I heard Sony had a similar problem with their first models in the past, but we are in 2019. In 2019 Sony a7iii does not have this problem although indeed the shutter seems noisy, see my tests, Sony passed the same tests where the NIkon Z6 failed.
You mean in YOUR tests Sony performed better. So what...? Also, personally I refuse to believe that Sony would not have problems with shutter shock. The one I tested certainly was not only MUCH noisier, but when the shutter was released it felt like somebody hit my palm, so I am sure that has a MUCH bigger negative effect than anything I ever experienced.
And I am used to Sony cameras and Canon cameras, all have disadvantages and advantages, but in my opinion Nikon has a problem now in 2019, this is not a disadvantage. A disadvantage would be to not have IBIS like the Canon EOS R, but maybe that's why Canon went for the classic lens VR. Nikon added IBIS in 2019, that should have worked good like on the Sony a7iii.
I don't know much about the Sony IBIS, but as far as I know, it isn't as efficient as Nikon, so what exactly are you wishing for?
Nikon also have a recall for VR problems on the z6 and z7, search the internet.
We all know that, it's on Nikon site you don't need to search the internet.
And those who got recalled did not notice the difference of sharpness, why? Because it's not always visible or they used EFCS.
So you mean you are the only one who recognize this "problem" and know how to test it and repeat it...
My serial number is not in that list, all I want is for Nikon to accept other cameras with other serial numbers to fix it, like they fixed others.
Nikon repairs ALL cameras but there must be a defect to be repaired. If you can't show the problems and it won't be repeatable in their test bed what do you expect them to do? If your camera is still new enough you can just return it, but if it is no longer new enough then you must claim warranty.
The EFCS has known and real disadvantages(more than one), tested by others, search the internet and you will see a lot more.
Like what...? The only disadvantage I know of is the limited shutter speed. Everything else is hogwash.
Banding due to certain type of light is NOT related to it. In certain light you WILL get banding, regardless of shutter.
About EFCS in the Z6 or Z7. When using EFCS the shutter speed will go up to 1/2000s compared when using Mechanical Shutter it will go to 1/8000s, So I am screwed.
In which way are you screwed? I mean, seriously, if you dislike EFCS there is a VERY simple solution, don't use it.
I should not answer you message because it's clear you did not look over my tests. I did not test the d850 handheld, I have tested it on the table (or tripod) where the shutter shock should appear when using the VR or not. In both situations the d850+VR lens performed flawless. Please see all tests on the site.
As I said, yes it does seem to have a noisy shutter, but the IBIS is not affected by it, which is not a problem like on my Z6. And I have tested so far 2 Sony a7iii, one Sony a7rIII and one Sony a7RIV, the Mechanical Shutter does not shake the IBIS. Don't believe me, borrow a Sony like I did, do the tests. I did tests before I have made that site and talked here.
I am glad you know that. Search on the internet means that it will lead you to the Nikon website for your country.
No, I am not the only one. I did not start this thread and there are others that notice this. Some of us really have this problem compared to some that got their camera fixed by serial number recall or their camera is performing ok. My whole point is that the recall should be extended. My camera is in warranty and I have sent it to them, but got refused because my camera does not have the serial number in the list. Now I am actually talking to them, explaining and showing the site and all my tests. Still waiting for an answer and hopefully for them to fix my z6.
About EFCS, I have explained over and over again, we all know it has disadvantages, search the internet and threads here if you don't believe me. Also look at the thread here "Z firmware wishlist" the first on the list is "- fix the banding". Banding appears using EFCS, the fix is to use Mechanical Shutter, using Mechanical Shutter in combination with the VR makes the images blurry. Than my only option is to disable the VR, especially when using strobes/flashes. So that makes the VR on my z6 useless in some situations.
The screwed part is related to the previous comment, where "
forpetessake" said: "Whoa, where did you get that? Not only it does move at the same speed as mechanical, it must or you are screwed." And i explained it does not move at the same speed, meaning that I am screwed. And it's not a matter that i dislike EFCS, I use EFCS in daylight landscapes for example, it's just a matter that EFCS in some situations does not work for me, forcing me to disable VR, once again making the VR in my z6 useless.
And in the end I don't understand why some users are throwing rocks at other users that need help. If that is the point of this forum I will stop posting here.
