New Fuji user, and postprocessing in Lightroom with AI Denoise

[Estelcontar]

So I'm a new Fuji user -- recently upgraded my old Nikon D5300 to a new Fujifilm X-S20 cause I wanted a lighter and smaller overall package for vacations and family trips. After a bunch of research regarding postprocessing, I decided to stick with using Lightroom with AI denoise to edit all my RAW files. I have a couple of questions about using Denoise and best practices, and how other people do it.

1. Should I use Denoise for every image, including those shot at base ISO? I understand that the basic Lightroom demosaicing is not that great for Fuji RAW files, and I think Denoising demosaics as well. So my gut says yes, but I don't want to unnecessarily process images that won't benefit from it.

2. What settings do people use for Denoising at different ISOs? I know it's going to depend on each image, but it'd be nice to have a baseline for "somewhere between x and y for ISO of 1600 to lose the noise but not make it plasticky," for example.

3. I want to save the RAW files but not the DNG files since they're huge and storage isn't free. Since Adobe recommends denoising first, how can I ensure I not lose my post-denoising edits?

And lastly, two quick non-denoising questions:

4. What color profile do people recommend using for Lightroom? I don't care for any specific film simulation or emulating a film look - am I better off starting in Adobe Color compared to the camera profile? Or does it not matter?

5. And what film sim would be best in camera to better view the dynamic range of the final RAW file? So I don't end up underexposing thinking my highlights are blown when they're not actually.

Thank you in advance!

 

[Mr Bolton]

Well I don't have much of an answer on the Denoise AI, but if you use the histogram display while shooting, that will keep you from blowing out the highlights. I almost always shoot in Velvia FWIW and I don't have any problems with blown highlights, unless they look blown in the EVF when I'm shooting.

 

[Estelcontar]

Well I don't have much of an answer on the Denoise AI, but if you use the histogram display while shooting, that will keep you from blowing out the highlights. I almost always shoot in Velvia FWIW and I don't have any problems with blown highlights, unless they look blown in the EVF when I'm shooting.

I do use the histogram, but my concern is more that since the histogram uses the processed JPG, it may say I'm blowing out my highlights when in reality I'm not, so I end up shooting with a suboptimal exposure. So I was wondering if one of the film sims does a better job of preventing that from happening.

 

[Shadwellal]

I only use AI denoise in Lightroom where there is a noise issue - which is quite rare. I certainly wouldn't recommend using it routinely.

Personal preference - but I set Provia in camera and adjust the film simulation in LR if I want to.

https://www.instagram.com/allanitaylor/

 

[GMacF]

So I'm a new Fuji user -- recently upgraded my old Nikon D5300 to a new Fujifilm X-S20 cause I wanted a lighter and smaller overall package for vacations and family trips. After a bunch of research regarding postprocessing, I decided to stick with using Lightroom with AI denoise to edit all my RAW files. I have a couple of questions about using Denoise and best practices, and how other people do it.

1. Should I use Denoise for every image, including those shot at base ISO? I understand that the basic Lightroom demosaicing is not that great for Fuji RAW files, and I think Denoising demosaics as well. So my gut says yes, but I don't want to unnecessarily process images that won't benefit from it.

It depends on the situation and final output. For my press work I find a little grain/noise actually helps as images are generally smoothed out in the printing process anyway so I don't bother here.
I shot a wedding which I batch processed in Denoise AI and the images came out really well - including those shot outside at base ISO.

Furthermore, I tend to run it if I'm processing image critical landscape shots, but this is just for my own benefit as I find it really helps to bring out the fine details in foliage etc.

2. What settings do people use for Denoising at different ISOs? I know it's going to depend on each image, but it'd be nice to have a baseline for "somewhere between x and y for ISO of 1600 to lose the noise but not make it plasticky," for example.

I tend to just leave it at the default 40 - it offers a good balance between Denoise-ing and sharpness.

3. I want to save the RAW files but not the DNG files since they're huge and storage isn't free. Since Adobe recommends denoising first, how can I ensure I not lose my post-denoising edits?

I wasn't aware of this. I have always left the Denoise-ing until last and have not experienced any issues so maybe just give that a go. The only exception to this is if you are editing across both Lightroom and Photoshop, in which case I leave the Photoshop editing until last.

And lastly, two quick non-denoising questions:

4. What color profile do people recommend using for Lightroom? I don't care for any specific film simulation or emulating a film look - am I better off starting in Adobe Color compared to the camera profile? Or does it not matter?

I personally don't think it matters. I usually use Classic Chrome as a base for portraits but that is purely personal preference. Unless I have a particular look in mind I would tend to just go with the Adobe Colour.

5. And what film sim would be best in camera to better view the dynamic range of the final RAW file? So I don't end up underexposing thinking my highlights are blown when they're not actually.

I've never considered this so I don't know. Just thinking now, I'm guessing (as an extreme example) that one of the B+W simulations would offer a true dynamic range but I'm basing this on nothing more than a theory so could be completely wrong.

Thank you in advance!

 

[a_c_skinner]

Two practical observations:

I rareley use any denoising at ISO 800 or below.

I don't use film sims. it is set on Standard I think. I generally get rid of the highlight indicators in that. Almost. You can open up a bit from that, perhaps one stop.

 

[Nielk Mike]

So I'm a new Fuji user -- recently upgraded my old Nikon D5300 to a new Fujifilm X-S20 cause I wanted a lighter and smaller overall package for vacations and family trips. After a bunch of research regarding postprocessing, I decided to stick with using Lightroom with AI denoise to edit all my RAW files. I have a couple of questions about using Denoise and best practices, and how other people do it.

1. Should I use Denoise for every image, including those shot at base ISO? I understand that the basic Lightroom demosaicing is not that great for Fuji RAW files, and I think Denoising demosaics as well. So my gut says yes, but I don't want to unnecessarily process images that won't benefit from it.

Yes, only using Enhance creates really sharp Fuji images in LR.

2. What settings do people use for Denoising at different ISOs? I know it's going to depend on each image, but it'd be nice to have a baseline for "somewhere between x and y for ISO of 1600 to lose the noise but not make it plasticky," for example.

Standard settings. The rest is adjustment to taste.

3. I want to save the RAW files but not the DNG files since they're huge and storage isn't free. Since Adobe recommends denoising first, how can I ensure I not lose my post-denoising edits?

Only by copying the edits to the RAF file.

And lastly, two quick non-denoising questions:

4. What color profile do people recommend using for Lightroom? I don't care for any specific film simulation or emulating a film look - am I better off starting in Adobe Color compared to the camera profile? Or does it not matter?

Start with Adobe Color. It gives me abasline across cameras.

5. And what film sim would be best in camera to better view the dynamic range of the final RAW file? So I don't end up underexposing thinking my highlights are blown when they're not actually.

Not sure that makes a difference. You can't really tell from the EVF anyway. Provia is fine.

Thank you in advance!

 

[dccberry]

I would definitely not use denoise on every image. No reason to until ISO 1600 or so from my experience, and maybe not even then if the file is well exposed. Most noise is only visible in the deep shadow areas. I also do not use it at full-strength, more like 20%, so the DNG does not look over-processed.

You are defeating the whole purpose of using denoise if you don't save the DNG file, since the RAW file will still have the original noise. I actually save the processed DNG as a TIFF for later use. Storage is dirt cheap, so don't skimp on that. A 2Tb solid state drive is barely $100 at this point, and that will take you years to fill up most likely.

 

[Nielk Mike]

I would definitely not use denoise on every image. No reason to until ISO 1600 or so from my experience, and maybe not even then if the file is well exposed. Most noise is only visible in the deep shadow areas. I also do not use it at full-strength, more like 20%, so the DNG does not look over-processed.

You are defeating the whole purpose of using denoise if you don't save the DNG file, since the RAW file will still have the original noise. I actually save the processed DNG as a TIFF for later use. Storage is dirt cheap, so don't skimp on that. A 2Tb solid state drive is barely $100 at this point, and that will take you years to fill up most likely.

Enhance/NR is not just about denoise. It is also doing a different kind treatment to Fuji files which makes them appear sharper (in particular gras and leaves). Enhance also adds sharpnes to Sony and Leica files - but Fuji files benefit the most. At any ISO.

 

[dccberry]

I would definitely not use denoise on every image. No reason to until ISO 1600 or so from my experience, and maybe not even then if the file is well exposed. Most noise is only visible in the deep shadow areas. I also do not use it at full-strength, more like 20%, so the DNG does not look over-processed.

You are defeating the whole purpose of using denoise if you don't save the DNG file, since the RAW file will still have the original noise. I actually save the processed DNG as a TIFF for later use. Storage is dirt cheap, so don't skimp on that. A 2Tb solid state drive is barely $100 at this point, and that will take you years to fill up most likely.

Enhance/NR is not just about denoise. It is also doing a different kind treatment to Fuji files which makes them appear sharper (in particular gras and leaves). Enhance also adds sharpnes to Sony and Leica files - but Fuji files benefit the most. At any ISO.

Whatever work for you. I do almost zero post-processing with my RAW files other dialing in shadow and highlight values and minor exposure tweaks. No sharpening usually. An over-sharpened file does not look good to my eyes.

 

[Nielk Mike]

I would definitely not use denoise on every image. No reason to until ISO 1600 or so from my experience, and maybe not even then if the file is well exposed. Most noise is only visible in the deep shadow areas. I also do not use it at full-strength, more like 20%, so the DNG does not look over-processed.

You are defeating the whole purpose of using denoise if you don't save the DNG file, since the RAW file will still have the original noise. I actually save the processed DNG as a TIFF for later use. Storage is dirt cheap, so don't skimp on that. A 2Tb solid state drive is barely $100 at this point, and that will take you years to fill up most likely.

Enhance/NR is not just about denoise. It is also doing a different kind treatment to Fuji files which makes them appear sharper (in particular gras and leaves). Enhance also adds sharpnes to Sony and Leica files - but Fuji files benefit the most. At any ISO.

Whatever work for you. I do almost zero post-processing with my RAW files other dialing in shadow and highlight values and minor exposure tweaks. No sharpening usually. An over-sharpened file does not look good to my eyes.

Nothing to do with over-sharpening. Lightroom (still) tends to turn grass and foliage into a mushy mess with Fuji files. Not as bad as before, but still. Enhance has changed that. it not only removes noise - it also brings out more detail so that the image appears sharper.

 

[dccberry]

I process in Adobe Camera Raw, and it works just fine with minimal tweaking. Photoshop does the rest.

 

[Nielk Mike]

I process in Adobe Camera Raw, and it works just fine with minimal tweaking. Photoshop does the rest.

Camera Raw (as in LR) still has issues with Fuji files - most notably in rendering sharp gras and foliage. "Enhance/NR" solves that (or DxO PhotoLab de-mosaicing). Images are rendered a tad sharper (w/o over-sharpening) and more detail in those grass/foliage areas.

See below:

w/o Enhance

with Enhance

 

[Estelcontar]

So I'm a new Fuji user -- recently upgraded my old Nikon D5300 to a new Fujifilm X-S20 cause I wanted a lighter and smaller overall package for vacations and family trips. After a bunch of research regarding postprocessing, I decided to stick with using Lightroom with AI denoise to edit all my RAW files. I have a couple of questions about using Denoise and best practices, and how other people do it.

1. Should I use Denoise for every image, including those shot at base ISO? I understand that the basic Lightroom demosaicing is not that great for Fuji RAW files, and I think Denoising demosaics as well. So my gut says yes, but I don't want to unnecessarily process images that won't benefit from it.

Yes, only using Enhance creates really sharp Fuji images in LR.

By enhance, do you mean AI Denoise at a low level? Or Raw Details? So far I've been liking what the Denoise set to 10 does to base ISO - doesn't remove whatever little noise there is, but definitely makes the image look better.

3. I want to save the RAW files but not the DNG files since they're huge and storage isn't free. Since Adobe recommends denoising first, how can I ensure I not lose my post-denoising edits?

Only by copying the edits to the RAF file.

Oh, I actually didn't realize I could copy edits! Figured I'd have to manually enter each one in to do that. So save the edits (minus denoise) in the RAW file, and then if I edit again re-Denoise, and copy the edits back.

 

[Nielk Mike]

So I'm a new Fuji user -- recently upgraded my old Nikon D5300 to a new Fujifilm X-S20 cause I wanted a lighter and smaller overall package for vacations and family trips. After a bunch of research regarding postprocessing, I decided to stick with using Lightroom with AI denoise to edit all my RAW files. I have a couple of questions about using Denoise and best practices, and how other people do it.

1. Should I use Denoise for every image, including those shot at base ISO? I understand that the basic Lightroom demosaicing is not that great for Fuji RAW files, and I think Denoising demosaics as well. So my gut says yes, but I don't want to unnecessarily process images that won't benefit from it.

Yes, only using Enhance creates really sharp Fuji images in LR.

By enhance, do you mean AI Denoise at a low level? Or Raw Details? So far I've been liking what the Denoise set to 10 does to base ISO - doesn't remove whatever little noise there is, but definitely makes the image look better.

Denoise. Raw Details was the early version. But Denoise does both NR and detail/sharpness improvement.

3. I want to save the RAW files but not the DNG files since they're huge and storage isn't free. Since Adobe recommends denoising first, how can I ensure I not lose my post-denoising edits?

Only by copying the edits to the RAF file.

Oh, I actually didn't realize I could copy edits! Figured I'd have to manually enter each one in to do that. So save the edits (minus denoise) in the RAW file, and then if I edit again re-Denoise, and copy the edits back.

It is a bid tedious, yes. That's why I only do this if I know I will come back to the file edit it. 90% of my files are edited once and then exported to JPEG, never to be touched again

 

[Estelcontar]

You are defeating the whole purpose of using denoise if you don't save the DNG file, since the RAW file will still have the original noise. I actually save the processed DNG as a TIFF for later use. Storage is dirt cheap, so don't skimp on that. A 2Tb solid state drive is barely $100 at this point, and that will take you years to fill up most likely.

The RAW file is easy to Denoise again though if I want to re-edit it. At least on my computer, it takes about 2 seconds to run, so why save the DNG and waste storage?

And while I do backup to SSD, I also back up my images to a 1TB Onedrive (along with all my documents and music and everything else) as my off-site backup. That's not as cheap, and to me it defeats the purpose if I only store the RAWs on the SSD. So optimizing storage is still important.

 

[Estelcontar]

It is a bid tedious, yes. That's why I only do this if I know I will come back to the file edit it. 90% of my files are edited once and then exported to JPEG, never to be touched again

I hear you, but I also know I thought that when I originally got my Nikon 10 years ago right before going on a family vacation abroad... and I desperately wish I could redo those images because they're pretty bad. I never want to run into that problem again!