My E-M5 has to go, which alternatives?

[Timur Born]

Hello everyone! I am running into too many subjective limits with the E-M5 and will likely exchange it for something else and maybe even have to leave behind M43. This thread is about collecting advice and opinions about my options. I will put this in several posts, so for anyone feeling TLDR, just ignore this thread.

So what is subjectively (!) wrong with the E-M5? In one long sentence: It's too big, it's too small, it's unergonomic, I don't like its viewfinder, it does not achieve what I need and it does not help me (enough) to overcome shortcomings of my photographic skills.

When I originally bought the Fujifilm X10 I wanted good enough image quality and control over the image in a package that I would not regularly leave at home due to size and weight. I quickly noticed that I would need bounce flash indoors and that the lack of any tilt/swivel screen was limiting me in shooting my kids from awkward angles. I also felt that I would need a bigger sensor and possibly faster lenses for stopping down my kids' actions at higher ISO and blurring out more of the very busy backgrounds indoors. Furthermore I could use a wider selection of focal lengths to either being able to zoom in closer (without cropping from an already smallish sensor) or to zoom out without running into furniture and walls.

So I went from X10 to E-M5 to get all these things and on top of that get 100% EVF with live preview, a better selection of flashes and hopefully even a better product support than what Fujifilm insulted me with. Back then I wrote a quite detailed thread about my experience, where I tried to fairly compare the two systems and even found quite a number of drawbacks on the E-M5 compared to the "lesser" X10. Because I knew that investing in a complete system would mean to shell out quite a bit of money I did not invest too much too fast. The result is that I only own the E-M5 + 12-50 kit, a spare 3rd party battery, a 45/1.8 + step up lens hood, a couple of 52 mm filters and a FL-600R flash.

In the next posts I one by one go through my above list of subjective E-M5 shortcomings.

 

[Detail Man]

Please, I hereby beseech thee to with all due respect recognize that you are speaking from within the walls and the hallowed halls of the .E-M5 Shrine. on the slopes of Mount Olympus.

Angelica Susurrat: http://www.virtuallybaroque.com/audio/bull_ffs_eenb1.mp3

 

[StephanSchmidt]

Bye. Wish you all the best with your next system.

 

[Anfy]

Timur Born wrote:

So what is subjectively (!) wrong with the E-M5? In one long sentence:

It's too big, it's too small...

LOL!

 

[Timur Born]

"It's too big"

While the X10 was already quite stressing the notion of "pocketable" I still took it with me out of the house far more often I find myself taking the E-M5 along. Especially during the cold months I could squeeze the X10 into a big jacket pocket where the E-M5 struggles mostly because of its hump and depending on the choice of lens. Long story short: I don't take the E-M5 with me often enough on family trips and family photos were the main reason to get into "more than iPhone" photography in the first place. This is not really a fault of the E-M5 or M43 system as they already offer one of the best size-quality ratio, but it's a problem in practice.

In the end I fear that anything bigger than an iPhone won't make it to most family trips, because with two kids we already have to carry enough and any delicate (and somewhat expensive) camera system is out of place. I once tried to carry the E-M5 around my neck with a strap and then banged my son on the head when I bowed down to him. No harm done, but still not good. So I just went and took a look at what the market has to offer in between trouser pocket small and good enough quality sensor+lens.

Albeit it would be used mostly outside in daylight, it will sometimes tack (flash) snapshots inside (when visiting other homes or any indoor kids attractions). Sensor size should ideally not be much smaller than 1/1.7" and there should be enough zoom range to catch the kids playing in the sandbox or sitting in some carnival ride, RAW processing preferred. The likes of Panasonic LX7 and Olympus XZ and anything going towards the size of my old X10 are still too big to take them along in light summer clothing without second thought.

The lens results of the Sony RX100 found here on DPR and some other sites don't find me enamoured considering its price, focal range and especially size. I know it's tiny for what it offers, but it's thicker than my wallet. The price of the MK1 has come down to 500 EUR, but it's still quite a lot for what you don't get and mainly justified by the use of its superiorly large sensor. The RX100 MK2 is listed at 750 EUR, which I feel is far too much for my usage case.

The Canon S110 is down to 230 EUR, which is a very tempting price for the smallest 1/1.7" sensor camera that even goes as wide as 24 mm (equivalent). The touchscreen is an extra that may or may not be useful. I found that I use it less than I thought, because in practice it has several drawbacks. The S120 promises faster AF times - important with moving kids - and WIFI remote control, but it's listed at the very same 500 EUR as the RX100 MK1 and double the price of the S110. Definitively too expensive in comparison.

Then comes the Panasonic LF1, a 1/1.7" sensor camera as small as the S110, sensor quality likely close to what the LX7 offers (but 12 mp), built in EVF (!) for bright sunny days and indoor use where you don't want to disturb other people with bright screens (any stage play etc), WIFI remote control, really nice control layout and zoom range up to 200 mm (equivalent). What's not to like? Well, the lack of a touchscreen is not necessarily a disadvantage, the EVF is basic (with strange color cast), but usable when needed, face detection seems to work only within limits and processing seems slow. But with the lowest available price being 375 EUR it really is a big expensive for a second take-everywhere (and maybe get broken) body when the S110 is so much cheaper.

You may wonder why I even list "WIFI" as an option to consider?! Especially in the absence of a swivel or at least tilt screen it can offer genuine practical use for remote controlling the camera whenever you need an awkward angle. This happens often when you try to take shots of kids sitting at table that face walls, try to take selfis of yourself with kids or try to take pics of kids playing close to the ground. Hold the small camera in one hand and the smartphone in the other. May be too awkward and slow in practice, but it's an option. I can also imagine holding up the LF1 switched to EVF while standing in a concert crowd and remote controlling from my phone down below. But again that's not exactly every day use.

 

[3DrJ]

Seems like a weird time to ask the question, given the New and Improved EM1 is about to explode over the whole scene in short order.

Yes it's obvious the EM5 isn't perfect, but what doesn't have warts? Honestly, I could not tell you how many cameras I've owned in my lifetime--dozens at least--none was wart-free. Jump systems--spend a fortune--it will always be the case.

A while back, my wife was snapping away with her phone while I was attempting some "real" photography with my EM5. My shots were OK, but nothing spectacular, but it turns out her images were seriously good! With a lousy smart phone no less. Who knew she has talent? Funny though, I try to encourage her to do more, develop her abilities, but she's not sure about pursuing it.

Maybe there's a lesson in it somewhere, maybe not. But the idea keeps bugging me, that it just might be true: more or different gear isn't really any answer.

Jules.

 

[Timur Born]

"It's too small, it's unergonomic"

Keep in mind that these are "subjective" impressions specific to my own size (1.90m guy with relatively large palms) and not too svelte fingers.

Now that I established that in practice I mostly use the E-M5 for indoor shots with and without bounce flash I also realized that "small size" doesn't matter. It's still nice to be able to put all my camera system in my backpack along with a 17" notebook, tablet and clothes to change. But most of the time I take up the camera, go to the next room and take pics of my kids.

If you ever took up the E-M5 with FL-600R attached with one hand you will immediately notice that something is wrong. It literally nearly breaks your wrist if you try to do that via the E-M5's normal grip, because of the top-heavy lever and uneven distribution of weight over a rather small volume body. Weight distribution for the right hand might become better with the external grip attached, but there still are other issues.

Trying to grab/hold the camera by the Olympus 45/1.8 is made difficult by its small size, even with the step-up (to 52 mm) shade attached. Even the relatively large (long) 12-50 cannot comfortably rest in my left hand's palm, because of it's still smallish size, but especially because the relatively rectangular front left edge of the E-M5 pushes into the left hand's palm. I regularly find the weight on my left hand distributed solely on the finger that need to grab the small lens, said edge that pushes into my palm and one finger that I bow to below the body for better balance. The latter is especially necessary with the heavy flash on top, because else I have to grab the camera with my left hand really tight and find my wrist going into an awkward and finally hurtful angle. Again the external grip may help a bit, but it still won't provide more area to hold on to (or rest "more" of the thumb) on the back of the camera.

With other cameras I checked lately I noticed that the NEX-6 feels immediately comfortable to hold with the right hand with its well formed and especially rubberized grip area. NEX cameras suffer from the large lens being cramped on the smallish body, though, with little room for the fingers between grip and lens. Any smaller NEX than the 6/7 feels awkward for me and once a more heavy lens and flash is attached it likely all falls down again. Still the grip part of the NEX 6 really works and I will come back to that camera further on.

What I noticed with any DSLR kind of camera is that their "fatter" lenses are much more comfortable to hold with my whole left hand. I can rest the lens in my palm, I can use the zoom ring with more than just two fingertips and I can firmly grab on to the lens to carry the body. The latter just works with the combination of E-M5 + 12-50, though better done without flash attached. Of course it's all a lot more bulky and heavy and in the past I didn't like too pronounced grips with the way I hold cameras. After further tries I found, though, that with enough rubberized area on the back and good enough form of the front grip I don't necessarily have to put my wrist at an uncomfortable angle.

Especially when shooting from the hip - my kids are less than half my size - I am not sure yet which kind of size/lens/grip system is the most comfortable to use. With the E-M5 I usually let the camera rest on my left hand palm and keep the right hand free to use the shutter or touchscreen. Again the left edge of the E-M5's body is less than perfect for this kind of hold, the weight lever to the right side becomes uncomfortable by time and there simply isn't enough room for the right hand to grab on to while operating the camera. Trying to use the right hand solely is nearly out of the question, at least not without fear to see the camera fall down.

And even when using the E-M5 with just the (not front-heavy) 45/1.8 and no flash attached there remains the issue of all the buttons and wheels being quite cramped together for my hand-size. I would take a smaller screen in exchange for more control room anytime! It's a well thought out compromise that fits the M43 philosophy well (except for the screen size vs. button space, which is marketing). But more and more I tend to agree that M43 is more about "whole system" size than just smallish cameras. Even with a bigger body like the GH-3 you still have a smaller and lightweight system, and you still can choose to use a small M43 camera beside the large one. Other systems do not offer this flexibility.

So if I want to stay within M43 I might have to take a look at larger cameras to combine with the smallish lenses. The upcoming E-M1 also gets bigger and especially offers more room for controls, but its left hand edge is still the same. We will see how it competes once it's out.

Unfortunately there are still some more subjective drawbacks on my list.

 

[nex55]

ok the EM5 IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY

I glad I have my em5 with its shortcomings , no everything is perfect in our world

may be in one decade we will close to perfection by the moment still close to perfection

 

[Ulric]

Timur Born wrote:
It's too big, it's too small

I have two m43 bodies, one larger and one smaller.

 

[Michael J Davis]

Timur Born wrote:

"It's too small, it's unergonomic"

So if I want to stay within M43 I might have to take a look at larger cameras to combine with the smallish lenses. The upcoming E-M1 also gets bigger and especially offers more room for controls, but its left hand edge is still the same. We will see how it competes once it's out.

Unfortunately there are still some more subjective drawbacks on my list.

Hi Timur! Yes, one can agonize over which camera/system to use, especially for perfectionists!

Like Anders I'm still using my G1 & EM-5 and wonder what I might get next, but as I am mostly happy with the quality of prints up to 20", I'm not pressed to move on. However, I do wonder if the new Panasonic GX7 and Olympus cameras will offer what is missing from their predecessors. The design of the GX7 seems much closer to the compact rangefinder 'style' (my old Oly35RC was one of my pocket cameras) than what I have. I'd wait for them, Timur.

Nontheless, I do hope, whatever camera you decide on, that you are able to contribute as much sense and knowhow to users as you have for the E-M5.

Best of luck in your deliberations,

Mike

 

[Timur Born]

"I don't like its viewfinder" - And what about the screen?

This one of part of the ergonomics department, but I'm giving it its own post nevertheless. First of all I am not too much of a viewfinder person, but I like to have the option when I need it and can make use of it. With kids crawling close to the ground the VF often is not an option, so this is where the screen comes in.

Anyone shooting regularly from the hip and below welcomes the addition of at least a tilt screen. Anyone trying to quickly switch between landscape tilt to portrait or from tilted screen to viewfinder will feel less enamoured. The tilted screen does landscape very good and gets in the way of everything else. Still it's not big trouble and usually quickly enough changeable. And despite the slightly larger volume a (optional) tilt-screen is still a lot better than a (non optional) fixed one.

That being said a full swivel screen has lots of advantages for people shooting kids. WIFI remote control may alleviate some of these, but one device to do it all is still better than two devices. First and foremost the swivel screen allows you to frame shots from the often found awkward angles that you have to deal with when photographing kids at play. I mentioned them before: kids playing very close to the ground, often looking down; kids sitting at tables that are facing a wall; kids in your arms or on your lap while you try to take selfies. Even more important you can swivel the screen both in landscape *and* portrait orientation. What about those portrait shots of my baby sitting on the ground some 1.70 m below my eyes? You get the picture.

Swivel screens offer one more advantage that is connected to what irks me most about the E-M5's centrally placed viewfinder. Once you swivel the screen out it makes room for your nose! I understand that with mirror cameras the VF has to be placed in line with the lens. I understand that it made sens to put the E-M5's VF inside an "outside" hump along the lens axis directly underneath the flash (hot-shoe). The relatively large volume size of the 5-axis IBIS doesn't leave any much room inside the camera anyway, and at least for marketing purposes it made some sense to put that hump design up there. This latter point is something that many people forget when they compare the E-M5 with other VF cameras. 5-axis IBIS is one of the most special gadgets of all currently available cameras and it takes a lot of room inside the camera body.

All that being said I still very much prefer viewfinders to be placed at the left side edge like seen on the Sony NEX-6 and Panasonic GX7. There are several reasons for this. The most important reason is that this allows me to look straight forwards with my head and eyes, all the while breathing freely through the nose. Centrally placed VF only allows this kind of comfort in portrait orientation. What I especially don't like about the E-M5 viewfinder is that while it uses a rectangle frame (good!) it still uses a circular looking glass. Why would anyone want me to look on a rectangular screen through a round hole? The result of this questionable design decision is that you have to get even *closer* to the VF in order to see the whole image.

I may have quite a big nose, so again it's subjective, but all the square VFs I looked through allow me to keep some distance for comfort and still see the whole image, at the cost of more ambient light on my eyes. With the E-M5 you either get close or the image gets cut away by the round peeping hole. This gets in the way of my nose, my forcefully turned neck, my forcefully turned eye (head to the left = eye to the right) and, as silly as it may sound, my rather long eye-lashes. The latter is worse with Fujifilm's viewfinders that even use a round frame/eyepiece. So for someone who isn't inclined to use viewfinders anyway these are further reasons to stay clear of them whenever possible.

Since I find squinting my eye and turning my head into one direction rather uncomfortable for longer periods of time I often found myself changing the eye on the viewfinder. In dark shooting conditions this also has the added benefit of the former closed eye being more sensible to shadow areas of the Live View image. With the left eye on the VF it's hardly even possible to use the cursor keys on the E-M5 and the rear wheel needs to be operated from the front (which I often do anyway). Had the VF been on the leftmost side this would not have been a problem as all right hand controls would be more easy reachable for left eye shooters, too.

The viewfinder of the NEX-6 is a delight in all these regards. It's placed at the left edge and thus allows right eye shooters to look straight and breath freely. It's square eye piece and high resolution screen are a pleasure to look through. Even left eye shooters can easily reach all controls on the right hand side. It doesn't offer left hand controls, so there is no conflict there. But even centrally placed DSLR viewfinders are more pleasurable to work with, because of their rectangular eye pieces and in some cases the possibility to get more breathing room by getting the swivel display out of the way. The added tilting possibility of the GX7's viewfinder might come in handy for shooting small people, too, especially in very bright sunlight where external screens go all blank.

As several people's replies up to now already point to the direction of me being too much of a perfectionist, let me use the opportunity to emphasize something about all the things I wrote about above. This is not about finding the unavailable perfect system, this is about listing pros and cons and then prioritizing what are the more important aspects of all the compromises one has to make. Even with all the details I listed for what makes subjectively better viewfinder for me, on the whole the viewfinder is the least important part for what makes me want to get away from the E-M5. It's a good viewfinder and would have been even better without the round hole in front of it and without the cramped design of the camera controls.

I will take some time to write replies and get other stuff done and then finish my somewhat lengthy story with the last points of my OP's list.

 

[Willem Wiersma]

Timur Born wrote:

"It's too big"

While the X10 was already quite stressing the notion of "pocketable" I still took it with me out of the house far more often I find myself taking the E-M5 along. Especially during the cold months I could squeeze the X10 into a big jacket pocket where the E-M5 struggles mostly because of its hump and depending on the choice of lens. Long story short: I don't take the E-M5 with me often enough on family trips and family photos were the main reason to get into "more than iPhone" photography in the first place. This is not really a fault of the E-M5 or M43 system as they already offer one of the best size-quality ratio, but it's a problem in practice.

In the end I fear that anything bigger than an iPhone won't make it to most family trips, because with two kids we already have to carry enough and any delicate (and somewhat expensive) camera system is out of place.

Seems you will need a two system setup: very small and relatively cheap gear for family trips and 'big equipment' for real photographic trips. For family trips: how about a Canon Powershot N? Small, tilting touch-screen, wifi. IQ probably not up to your usual standards, but also better than your smartphone. Autofocus speed might be a problem though with running kids.

For the bigger setup: wait for the EM1 and the seemingly very nice 12-40 which also is a bit bigger and easier to hold. If the EM1 does not please you, you're 'stuck' with the ergonomics-champion GH3 if you want to hang on to the m43 system. Ofcourse you could decide to go APC or even FF

I once tried to carry the E-M5 around my neck with a strap and then banged my son on the head when I bowed down to him. No harm done, but still not good. So I just went and took a look at what the market has to offer in between trouser pocket small and good enough quality sensor+lens.

Albeit it would be used mostly outside in daylight, it will sometimes tack (flash) snapshots inside (when visiting other homes or any indoor kids attractions). Sensor size should ideally not be much smaller than 1/1.7" and there should be enough zoom range to catch the kids playing in the sandbox or sitting in some carnival ride, RAW processing preferred. The likes of Panasonic LX7 and Olympus XZ and anything going towards the size of my old X10 are still too big to take them along in light summer clothing without second thought.

The lens results of the Sony RX100 found here on DPR and some other sites don't find me enamoured considering its price, focal range and especially size. I know it's tiny for what it offers, but it's thicker than my wallet. The price of the MK1 has come down to 500 EUR, but it's still quite a lot for what you don't get and mainly justified by the use of its superiorly large sensor. The RX100 MK2 is listed at 750 EUR, which I feel is far too much for my usage case.

The Canon S110 is down to 230 EUR, which is a very tempting price for the smallest 1/1.7" sensor camera that even goes as wide as 24 mm (equivalent). The touchscreen is an extra that may or may not be useful. I found that I use it less than I thought, because in practice it has several drawbacks. The S120 promises faster AF times - important with moving kids - and WIFI remote control, but it's listed at the very same 500 EUR as the RX100 MK1 and double the price of the S110. Definitively too expensive in comparison.

Then comes the Panasonic LF1, a 1/1.7" sensor camera as small as the S110, sensor quality likely close to what the LX7 offers (but 12 mp), built in EVF (!) for bright sunny days and indoor use where you don't want to disturb other people with bright screens (any stage play etc), WIFI remote control, really nice control layout and zoom range up to 200 mm (equivalent). What's not to like? Well, the lack of a touchscreen is not necessarily a disadvantage, the EVF is basic (with strange color cast), but usable when needed, face detection seems to work only within limits and processing seems slow. But with the lowest available price being 375 EUR it really is a big expensive for a second take-everywhere (and maybe get broken) body when the S110 is so much cheaper.

You may wonder why I even list "WIFI" as an option to consider?! Especially in the absence of a swivel or at least tilt screen it can offer genuine practical use for remote controlling the camera whenever you need an awkward angle. This happens often when you try to take shots of kids sitting at table that face walls, try to take selfis of yourself with kids or try to take pics of kids playing close to the ground. Hold the small camera in one hand and the smartphone in the other. May be too awkward and slow in practice, but it's an option. I can also imagine holding up the LF1 switched to EVF while standing in a concert crowd and remote controlling from my phone down below. But again that's not exactly every day use.

 

[Timur Born]

Detail Man wrote:

Please, I hereby beseech thee to with all due respect recognize that you are speaking from within the walls and the hallowed halls of the .E-M5 Shrine. on the slopes of Mount Olympus.

Angelica Susurrat: http://www.virtuallybaroque.com/audio/bull_ffs_eenb1.mp3

Ooom

 

[Willem Wiersma]

Timur Born wrote:

"I don't like its viewfinder" - And what about the screen?

This one of part of the ergonomics department, but I'm giving it its own post nevertheless. First of all I am not too much of a viewfinder person, but I like to have the option when I need it and can make use of it. With kids crawling close to the ground the VF often is not an option, so this is where the screen comes in.

Anyone shooting regularly from the hip and below welcomes the addition of at least a tilt screen. Anyone trying to quickly switch between landscape tilt to portrait or from tilted screen to viewfinder will feel less enamoured. The tilted screen does landscape very good and gets in the way of everything else. Still it's not big trouble and usually quickly enough changeable. And despite the slightly larger volume a (optional) tilt-screen is still a lot better than a (non optional) fixed one.

That being said a full swivel screen has lots of advantages for people shooting kids. WIFI remote control may alleviate some of these, but one device to do it all is still better than two devices. First and foremost the swivel screen allows you to frame shots from the often found awkward angles that you have to deal with when photographing kids at play. I mentioned them before: kids playing very close to the ground, often looking down; kids sitting at tables that are facing a wall; kids in your arms or on your lap while you try to take selfies. Even more important you can swivel the screen both in landscape *and* portrait orientation. What about those portrait shots of my baby sitting on the ground some 1.70 m below my eyes? You get the picture.

Swivel screens offer one more advantage that is connected to what irks me most about the E-M5's centrally placed viewfinder. Once you swivel the screen out it makes room for your nose! I understand that with mirror cameras the VF has to be placed in line with the lens. I understand that it made sens to put the E-M5's VF inside an "outside" hump along the lens axis directly underneath the flash (hot-shoe). The relatively large volume size of the 5-axis IBIS doesn't leave any much room inside the camera anyway, and at least for marketing purposes it made some sense to put that hump design up there. This latter point is something that many people forget when they compare the E-M5 with other VF cameras. 5-axis IBIS is one of the most special gadgets of all currently available cameras and it takes a lot of room inside the camera body.

All that being said I still very much prefer viewfinders to be placed at the left side edge like seen on the Sony NEX-6 and Panasonic GX7. There are several reasons for this. The most important reason is that this allows me to look straight forwards with my head and eyes, all the while breathing freely through the nose. Centrally placed VF only allows this kind of comfort in portrait orientation. What I especially don't like about the E-M5 viewfinder is that while it uses a rectangle frame (good!) it still uses a circular looking glass. Why would anyone want me to look on a rectangular screen through a round hole? The result of this questionable design decision is that you have to get even *closer* to the VF in order to see the whole image.

I may have quite a big nose, so again it's subjective, but all the square VFs I looked through allow me to keep some distance for comfort and still see the whole image, at the cost of more ambient light on my eyes. With the E-M5 you either get close or the image gets cut away by the round peeping hole. This gets in the way of my nose, my forcefully turned neck, my forcefully turned eye (head to the left = eye to the right) and, as silly as it may sound, my rather long eye-lashes. The latter is worse with Fujifilm's viewfinders that even use a round frame/eyepiece. So for someone who isn't inclined to use viewfinders anyway these are further reasons to stay clear of them whenever possible.

Since I find squinting my eye and turning my head into one direction rather uncomfortable for longer periods of time I often found myself changing the eye on the viewfinder. In dark shooting conditions this also has the added benefit of the former closed eye being more sensible to shadow areas of the Live View image. With the left eye on the VF it's hardly even possible to use the cursor keys on the E-M5 and the rear wheel needs to be operated from the front (which I often do anyway). Had the VF been on the leftmost side this would not have been a problem as all right hand controls would be more easy reachable for left eye shooters, too.

The viewfinder of the NEX-6 is a delight in all these regards. It's placed at the left edge and thus allows right eye shooters to look straight and breath freely. It's square eye piece and high resolution screen are a pleasure to look through. Even left eye shooters can easily reach all controls on the right hand side. It doesn't offer left hand controls, so there is no conflict there. But even centrally placed DSLR viewfinders are more pleasurable to work with, because of their rectangular eye pieces and in some cases the possibility to get more breathing room by getting the swivel display out of the way. The added tilting possibility of the GX7's viewfinder might come in handy for shooting small people, too, especially in very bright sunlight where external screens go all blank.

Yep, in that regard the NEXsystem might suit you well, although the choice in lenses is less than the m43 platform. The newly announced 16-70/4 is a nice addition though. Still, I would choose a GX7, saves you the hassle of changing systems and it's probably more ergonomical.

As several people's replies up to now already point to the direction of me being too much of a perfectionist, let me use the opportunity to emphasize something about all the things I wrote about above. This is not about finding the unavailable perfect system, this is about listing pros and cons and then prioritizing what are the more important aspects of all the compromises one has to make. Even with all the details I listed for what makes subjectively better viewfinder for me, on the whole the viewfinder is the least important part for what makes me want to get away from the E-M5. It's a good viewfinder and would have been even better without the round hole in front of it and without the cramped design of the camera controls.

I will take some time to write replies and get other stuff done and then finish my somewhat lengthy story with the last points of my OP's list.

 

[Timur Born]

StephanSchmidt wrote:

Bye. Wish you all the best with your next system.

Thank you. I would prefer not having to change systems in order to save my investments done so far. But in the end I prefer money spent on something I use more often to money saved on something that doesn't motivate me enough to take it up. We will see what the market has to offer in the coming months between now and x-mas.

 

[Timur Born]

3DrJ wrote:

Seems like a weird time to ask the question, given the New and Improved EM1 is about to explode over the whole scene in short order.

Hm, I find it just the right timing to think about the available and very soon coming alternatives that we already know lots of infos about. Especially in the light of likely having to sell the E-M5 for a price that doesn't leave me weeping for all the money lost.

Yes it's obvious the EM5 isn't perfect, but what doesn't have warts? Honestly, I could not tell you how many cameras I've owned in my lifetime--dozens at least--none was wart-free. Jump systems--spend a fortune--it will always be the case.

This is not about perfection, but about finding the right compromises. I did own exactly two cameras in my life, so my experience with what suits my personal (and likely changing) needs best is somewhat limited. I hoped that M43 would be exactly that "in the middle" system that compromises between too big and too bad. And compared to everything else in the market it is exactly that, especially with the E-M5's sensor and even more so lenses competing well with all the bigger APC-S competitions. But turns out that it might still not be the right compromise for what I need.

A while back, my wife was snapping away with her phone while I was attempting some "real" photography with my EM5. My shots were OK, but nothing spectacular, but it turns out her images were seriously good! With a lousy smart phone no less. Who knew she has talent? Funny though, I try to encourage her to do more, develop her abilities, but she's not sure about pursuing it.

The bulk of our family pics is done with phones, has always been and likely will always be. They are the true "camera that is always there". Before I spent a dime on the E-M5 + stuff I first bought my lady a new phone to take better pictures with. She doesn't want to carry any "extra" camera while I could not stand the bad quality of her old K800 for such important events as our babies growing from zero to hero.

Maybe there's a lesson in it somewhere, maybe not. But the idea keeps bugging me, that it just might be true: more or different gear isn't really any answer.

There are very clear shortcoming with phone cameras that are sometimes impossible to workaround. One is the lack of optical zoom. My older boy took a fun park car ride with his grandma, I was standing on a bridge that went right over the car track. No chance to get a good picture with the phone, because either the angle from the bridge was too steep or they were too far away. I got the "too far away" picture and will now blow it up digitally into something that may give us an idea of how much fun they had. That is, if any expression is left to be discernible after major digital "zooming".

The other situation where any small camera falls short is bad indoor lighting combined with moving subjects. You need good ISO + aperture performance and/or good (bounce) flash to make these more than just OK looking snapshots. It's mostly enough for our personal memory, but once in a while you want a truly gorgeous looking picture of the most important people in your life. Especially when they grow out of their current clothes more quickly than you can plead them to sit still.

 

[Detail Man]

Clearly, it's time to get whatever you can for the E-M5, and step up to the newly released E-M6.

 

[Kwick1]

So, you want a camera that easily fits on your pocket (so you don't hit your son in the head), has full frame image quality, a large viewfinder, interchangeable lenses (and uses the same ones you have already), fits your large hands, and fixes your lack of photographic skills, guaranteeing a great shot every time.

Yeah, I think they're coming out with one of those around Christmas.

This has got to be one of the most ridiculous threads ever on DP Review (and that's saying something)

 

[tinternaut]

[No message]

 

[LD Photography]

Hello everyone! I am running into too many subjective limits with the E-M5 and will likely exchange it for something else and maybe even have to leave behind M43. This thread is about collecting advice and opinions about my options. I will put this in several posts, so for anyone feeling TLDR, just ignore this thread.

So what is subjectively (!) wrong with the E-M5? In one long sentence: It's too big, it's too small, it's unergonomic, I don't like its viewfinder, it does not achieve what I need and it does not help me (enough) to overcome shortcomings of my photographic skills.

When I originally bought the Fujifilm X10 I wanted good enough image quality and control over the image in a package that I would not regularly leave at home due to size and weight. I quickly noticed that I would need bounce flash indoors and that the lack of any tilt/swivel screen was limiting me in shooting my kids from awkward angles. I also felt that I would need a bigger sensor and possibly faster lenses for stopping down my kids' actions at higher ISO and blurring out more of the very busy backgrounds indoors. Furthermore I could use a wider selection of focal lengths to either being able to zoom in closer (without cropping from an already smallish sensor) or to zoom out without running into furniture and walls.

So I went from X10 to E-M5 to get all these things and on top of that get 100% EVF with live preview, a better selection of flashes and hopefully even a better product support than what Fujifilm insulted me with. Back then I wrote a quite detailed thread about my experience, where I tried to fairly compare the two systems and even found quite a number of drawbacks on the E-M5 compared to the "lesser" X10. Because I knew that investing in a complete system would mean to shell out quite a bit of money I did not invest too much too fast. The result is that I only own the E-M5 + 12-50 kit, a spare 3rd party battery, a 45/1.8 + step up lens hood, a couple of 52 mm filters and a FL-600R flash.

In the next posts I one by one go through my above list of subjective E-M5 shortcomings.

I to had the x10 and I looked hard at the em5 but settled on the fuji xe1, not completly happy with it on a recent holiday into the new zealand wilderness used the d600 95% of the time, for two reasons xe1 viewfinder not good in some light conditions and also a lot of rainy days, which rhe xe1 would not handle even the d600 lense fogged up a couple of times, I was hoping that xe1 would be a replacment for d600 but no, but I will look at the new em1 when it comes out to me it looks a smarter camera than the em5,