LX10: No Viewfinder...is it a problem?

[JasL]

Hi

The LX10 ticks all my requirements apart from the lack of a viewfinder. I would be grateful if people could share their experiences of using this camera in bright sunny conditions. I like to be able to compose my shots rather than just point the camera in right direction and hope for the best!

I really like the Sony RX100's viewfinder but prefer LX10 (Cheaper, easier menus, touchscreen, brighter through zoom range etc). I need some help on this one please.

Going on holiday soon, so need to buy ASAP so I can dig into the manual before I go!!!!

Thx

 

[Yannis1976]

I have said it before in these forums. For me, these kind of small pocketable cameras don't need the VF that much, because they have the tilt screen and that can compensate somewhat the light from sun, Kudos to Sony that managed to fit one VF in their RX100/3 and beyond but personally I still prefer the Panasonic LX10.

 

[Erik Ohlson]

The answer is the same as the answer to your question about the LX100:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4129222#forum-post-59259827

In the last post on that thread, rolandb suggests looking at my photos of it, so here that is:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59228063

Highly recommended.









--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

 

[coody]

[No message]

 

[JasL]

Hi

There is nothing wrong with my eyes.

I just find the screens absolutely useless in bright sunshine, a viewfinder allows you to accurately compose your shots.

Does nobody else have this problem in bright conditions or do you just point in roughly the right direction and hope for the best?

Thx.

 

[AndreasBraun]

Hi

There is nothing wrong with my eyes.

I just find the screens absolutely useless in bright sunshine, a viewfinder allows you to accurately compose your shots.

Does nobody else have this problem in bright conditions or do you just point in roughly the right direction and hope for the best?

Thx.

I'm a proponent of EVFs for more than one reason:

- The mentioned problems in bright lighting conditions

- The EVF has a diopter dial (of course not so the screen!)

- The use of an EVF brings more stabilty due to holding the cam at the forehead (at least one stop or even more)

- The angle of view is larger and therefore the scenery is more closely seen

- The incorporation of an EVF doesn't of course exclude the screen: both are available

- Today's EVFs have grown adult, not any more simple inferior solutions

I could go on listing other advantages but let me end with a question: why on earth - besides price reasons - should a camera have no viewfinder? There is not a single disadvantage but numerous advantages.

Andreas

 

[Antonlin]

The LX10 is a very nice camera, but not perfect. No camera is. Every one is a compromise. I have taken photos successfully with the LX10 in a variety of situations, but I think that if I had the sun looking over my shoulder there might be a bit of a problem. Mostly I can tilt the view screen at an angle to minimize the problem. But there are situations where the LX10 would not be your best bet. Personally I found I couldn't get along without a longer zoom. Consequently I acquired the FZ2500. One camera is great for in-town situations. The other is great on nature hikes.

 

[Erik Ohlson]

Hi

There is nothing wrong with my eyes.

I just find the screens absolutely useless in bright sunshine, a viewfinder allows you to accurately compose your shots.

Does nobody else have this problem in bright conditions or do you just point in roughly the right direction and hope for the best?

Thx.

Yes, this is one of the most common complaints on the forum about LCD screens, which is why, some ten years ago, I was using an old Kodak slide viewer with the white diffusion screen removed, cupped in my hand and held up to the screen.





Then another person on this forum figured out an even better way, fastening a similar device to the camera's tripod socket, and began selling them:





Note that when you bring your eye up to the magnifying lens using thumb and finger as an "eyecup" and your right hand up to control the shutter, the LCD is screened from glare and the magnified LCD lets you see actual details in your subject. In this case my right hand was taking this picture.

Being eye-level and with your eye right up to your finger & thumb, the camera is steadied by your head, as well.

I never leave home without it, and mount it on every camera.







--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

 

[Kevin Coppalotti]

Hi

There is nothing wrong with my eyes.

I just find the screens absolutely useless in bright sunshine, a viewfinder allows you to accurately compose your shots.

Does nobody else have this problem in bright conditions or do you just point in roughly the right direction and hope for the best?

Thx.

Have to agree, a fast track to insanity is a camera with no viewfinder.

 

[ANAYV]

Hi

There is nothing wrong with my eyes.

Do you hold camera out as far as arms length to shoot?

If so, then you might experience problems in bright sunlight.

If you can see LCD from about 5 to 8 inches away, then sunlight shouldnt be a problem.

Either way, I recommend using an anti glare LCD screen protector.

I never have a problem in bright sunlight with using these on my Panasonic cameras.

Much better than the normal ( reflective ) type, IMHO.

I just find the screens absolutely useless in bright sunshine, a viewfinder allows you to accurately compose your shots.

As does the LCD...both with 100% accurate view.

Does nobody else have this problem in bright conditions or do you just point in roughly the right direction and hope for the best?

Never need to point & pray

Then again I dont hold camera out at arms length...way too far to see the LCD, sunlight becomes a problem ...plus less stability. But if eyes can't focus on LCD from less than arms length....then you will probably have a problem....do try the anti glare screen protectors...they really do make a difference, IMHO.

Thx.

Hope this helps some.

ANAYV

 

[PC Wheeler]

It would be for me, since where I live it's usually sunny outdoors.

 

[JasL]

Hi

There is nothing wrong with my eyes.

Do you hold camera out as far as arms length to shoot?

If so, then you might experience problems in bright sunlight.

If you can see LCD from about 5 to 8 inches away, then sunlight shouldnt be a problem.

Either way, I recommend using an anti glare LCD screen protector.

I never have a problem in bright sunlight with using these on my Panasonic cameras.

Much better than the normal ( reflective ) type, IMHO.

I just find the screens absolutely useless in bright sunshine, a viewfinder allows you to accurately compose your shots.

As does the LCD...both with 100% accurate view.

Does nobody else have this problem in bright conditions or do you just point in roughly the right direction and hope for the best?

Never need to point & pray

Then again I dont hold camera out at arms length...way too far to see the LCD, sunlight becomes a problem ...plus less stability. But if eyes can't focus on LCD from less than arms length....then you will probably have a problem....do try the anti glare screen protectors...they really do make a difference, IMHO.

Thx.

Hope this helps some.

ANAYV

I've not tried the anti glare screen protectors - so maybe that will sort out most of the issue with sunlight. I don't hold the camera out at arms length. When its really sunny I've found it does not matter where I hold the camera. I don't have an LX10 yet, was deciding between that and Sony. I tried a G80 yesterday and loved it...so I may I will sacrifice size for a view finder, choice of lens etc. The new Leica 12-60mm (2.8-4) looks very good!

 

[AndreasBraun]

Hi

There is nothing wrong with my eyes.

Do you hold camera out as far as arms length to shoot?

If so, then you might experience problems in bright sunlight.

If you can see LCD from about 5 to 8 inches away, then sunlight shouldnt be a problem.

Either way, I recommend using an anti glare LCD screen protector.

I never have a problem in bright sunlight with using these on my Panasonic cameras.

Much better than the normal ( reflective ) type, IMHO.

I just find the screens absolutely useless in bright sunshine, a viewfinder allows you to accurately compose your shots.

As does the LCD...both with 100% accurate view.

Does nobody else have this problem in bright conditions or do you just point in roughly the right direction and hope for the best?

Never need to point & pray

Then again I dont hold camera out at arms length...way too far to see the LCD, sunlight becomes a problem ...plus less stability. But if eyes can't focus on LCD from less than arms length....then you will probably have a problem....do try the anti glare screen protectors...they really do make a difference, IMHO.

Thx.

Hope this helps some.

ANAYV

I'm kind of amazed that a long time forumer like you - with most likely also very long time photography experience - makes recommendations like these. BTW, I started my SLR activity with a Zeiss Contaflex in 1965 and was delighted to have a TTL viewfinder.

All seriously rated cameras have a viewfinder - either optical or electronic - and this viewfinder is of course used to not handle the camera in a beginner's mode as though it was a smartphone.

Andreas

 

[kkardster]

I had the FZ150 and it had an LCD with a coating that allowed use in bright light - the image would take on a metallic look but was useable. I'd hold out for a response from an actual owner of the LX10 to see how its LCD copes with the sun.

 

[safaridon]

Hi

There is nothing wrong with my eyes.

I just find the screens absolutely useless in bright sunshine, a viewfinder allows you to accurately compose your shots.

Does nobody else have this problem in bright conditions or do you just point in roughly the right direction and hope for the best?

Thx.

Have to agree, a fast track to insanity is a camera with no viewfinder.

--
Kevin Coppalotti
http://maxhr.zenfolio.com/

The biggest reason to omit the viewfinder is to keep the camera as small as possible. I don't know if Sony has their concept of a popup EVE patented or not so other manufacturers have not followed? In any case a popup EVF mechanism requires couple steps to pull out and activate and less sturdy, My ZS travel cams are much smaller and less height than any of the newer ZSs or TZs with tiny evfs. Yes I have experienced problems with sun glare but note that newer LCD screens are much better as on recent safari with FZ200 I never used the small EVF and only experienced problems of slower framing not blackout. Yes for wildlife photography I far prefer using a DSLR with optical viewfinder with no delay so that I am not missing the picture I wanted to take but that is not handy in pocket size.

 

[ANAYV]

Hi

There is nothing wrong with my eyes.

Do you hold camera out as far as arms length to shoot?

If so, then you might experience problems in bright sunlight.

If you can see LCD from about 5 to 8 inches away, then sunlight shouldnt be a problem.

Either way, I recommend using an anti glare LCD screen protector.

I never have a problem in bright sunlight with using these on my Panasonic cameras.

Much better than the normal ( reflective ) type, IMHO.

I just find the screens absolutely useless in bright sunshine, a viewfinder allows you to accurately compose your shots.

As does the LCD...both with 100% accurate view.

Does nobody else have this problem in bright conditions or do you just point in roughly the right direction and hope for the best?

Never need to point & pray

Then again I dont hold camera out at arms length...way too far to see the LCD, sunlight becomes a problem ...plus less stability. But if eyes can't focus on LCD from less than arms length....then you will probably have a problem....do try the anti glare screen protectors...they really do make a difference, IMHO.

Thx.

Hope this helps some.

ANAYV

I'm kind of amazed that a long time forumer like you - with most likely also very long time photography experience - makes recommendations like these.

That's because I never shot with any serious film cameras....owned a 110mm film,camera...so obviously not a serious film shooter.

Only since 2003 did I get into photography....and still learning.

BTW, I started my SLR activity with a Zeiss Contaflex in 1965 and was delighted to have a TTL viewfinder.

I fell in love with viewing and shooting with 2 eyes, using LCD's.

Viewfinders in older FZ's only gave me a headache after 10 minutes or so.

I also can hold,camera pretty close to my eyes, so sunglass isn't an issue, especially with the anti glare screens I use.

All seriously rated cameras have a viewfinder - either optical or electronic -

Based on what?????

Funny statement you make. Even if a serious camera ( does my FZ1000 count ?) has a Great EVF...if I prefer the LCD......does that turn my camera into a non serious one?

Does my photo's degrade cause I didn't use the EVF?

With today's great O.I.S. the ability to shoot at low shutter speeds , I find little use for a mono pod....and no use for a tripod.....technology just keeps,advancing.

and this viewfinder is of course used to not handle the camera in a beginner's mode as though it was a smartphone.

Any camera can be used in beginners mode, though I prefer Program mode, and sometimes aperture mode...and sometimes shutter priority....

I see your points, coming from older film cameras.....you,get used to a certain way ....I just recently got used to using a EVF...but not all the time....the flip and twist LCD of today's cameras work,a great, IMHO.

I'm sure you have way more experience in photography than I do.

ANAYV

 

[Yannis1976]

I've not tried the anti glare screen protectors - so maybe that will sort out most of the issue with sunlight. I don't hold the camera out at arms length. When its really sunny I've found it does not matter where I hold the camera. I don't have an LX10 yet, was deciding between that and Sony. I tried a G80 yesterday and loved it...so I may I will sacrifice size for a view finder, choice of lens etc. The new Leica 12-60mm (2.8-4) looks very good!

A G80? You are talking about a completely different camera, a much bigger ILC system which really makes me wonder why you were considering the LX10 in the first place...

I have both a GX8 and the LX10 and they serve different purposes. I usually take the LX10 when I don't want to carry a lot and size is the most important factor, like business trips, going out to social or family events or in cases where there is lack of light. Another I have noticed is that my nephews are posing easily in front of the LX10 whereas they hide when they see the GX8!!!!

On the other hand when I want to go somewhere especially for shooting or to a wet environment I will take the GX8 or even both having the one for wide angles and the other for more tele subjects.

And as a side note, some of my best photos in Flickr has been taken with an LX10, just because the best camera is the one you have mostly with you:

https://flic.kr/p/QVQpBW

 

[tkpatric]

Hi

There is nothing wrong with my eyes.

I just find the screens absolutely useless in bright sunshine, a viewfinder allows you to accurately compose your shots.

Does nobody else have this problem in bright conditions or do you just point in roughly the right direction and hope for the best?

Thx.

I'm a proponent of EVFs for more than one reason:

- The mentioned problems in bright lighting conditions

- The EVF has a diopter dial (of course not so the screen!)

- The use of an EVF brings more stabilty due to holding the cam at the forehead (at least one stop or even more)

- The angle of view is larger and therefore the scenery is more closely seen

- The incorporation of an EVF doesn't of course exclude the screen: both are available

- Today's EVFs have grown adult, not any more simple inferior solutions

I could go on listing other advantages but let me end with a question: why on earth - besides price reasons - should a camera have no viewfinder? There is not a single disadvantage but numerous advantages.

Andreas

Very well said! I do have reading glasses...

 

[saudidave]

Before you do anything, try an LCD non reflective screen protector as I believe it will solve your bright sunlight / LCD issues. They are quite cheap and touch screen sensitivity is not impaired.

If that isn't the answer, try a Clearviewer. Whilst I'm not the greatest fanboy of a Clearviewer as I think they are a bit of a nuisance to have attached to your camera, I do own one (well two actually). I used to fit one to my LF1 and still occasionally fit one to my TZ/ZS 100 if I'm out doing "serious" photography as it does provide a clear and bright image, so I'm with Erik Ohlson on this. Invest $50.00 in a premium clearviewer and keep it in your camera case for attachment when the screen is bleached out by the Sun.

Dave

 

[tkbslc]

I could go on listing other advantages but let me end with a question: why on earth - besides price reasons - should a camera have no viewfinder? There is not a single disadvantage but numerous advantages.

Andreas

Generally leaving out the viewfinder allows for a reduction in size, complexity and/or cost.