How is the SURE program working?

[fjbyrne]

Does anyone have an info - or an opinion - on how the SURE program is working out for Sony here in the USA? I am speaking mostly of one of the supposed benefits of the program - specifically if it is helping the specialty stores vs the big box stores.

Has anyone seen an increase in Sony's presence in these smaller specialty stores or conversely seen no change or a decline?

I haven't been in a specialty store in a while. The closest thing I have been in has been a Ritz and I didn't see a noticeable change in how much Alpha stuff they had in stock.

Just curious.

Thanks

--
Rick

 

[tom55604]

My local camera store always carried Minolta, then KM, and then (before Sure) Sony cameras, lenses, and accessories (cameras up to the Maxxum 9 and KM7D level).

Because of work, a long illness, and general (temporary) loss of interest in photography, I hadn't visited them for a while. Now that things are better with me, I stopped in to get a Sony battery, a camera bag, memory card, and to check out their inventory of equipment, paper, film, etc.

They had no Sony battery, and when I asked, they said that they no longer carrried Sony cameras or accessories. But as you mentioned, Ritz in my area has batteries and entry level cameras and lenses. Walmart has a 2xx and kit type lenses, Best Buy has 2xx (maybe 3xx) and the entry level lenses. Sony Style has a full line of cameras and select lenses, but nothing like the STF or G lenses.

I'd say that in my area Sure may be protecting the Sony Style "specialty" Store, but it did nothing for a Mom and Pop real-live camera specialty store that's been around since at least the 1970's (existed before I moved into the area in 1970) and which catered to new, experienced, and pro level photographers with knowledgable staff and owners. (They still carry N&C and some Pentax/Olympus).

Tom

 

[Kzoozoomer]

Have no data, but our local independent camera store appears to have cut back on its Sony inventory compared to two years ago. Meanwhile, our local Best Buy carries only the 230 and 330 models with only one or two extra lenses. So I don't see Sony doing very well with either the specialty stores or the box stores. I think their distribution strategy is a dismal failure in the U.S.

 

[quickie2]

Sure did an almost perfect job of making Sony disappear locally. Sure was implemented right after purchasing my camera.
Then a Sony store was created several hours drive away.
If I had waited one more month there would be a Canon or Nikon in my hands.
Now we have to drive for hours to actually see Sony DSLR stuff.

I have been sitting on the fence for a few months about buying another lens or getting deeper with Sony. With just enough lenses to make it difficult to jump ship.
A simple battery failure could hinder an outing because good luck finding one.

Sony has gloated with proprietary control and it has had a direct affect on my loyalty this time.

If Sony does not have something substantial to offer this year I will be forced to leave. Loyalty deserves some support.
The saying "You can't be a store if you don't look like one" holds some truth.
can you tell that Sure has not won my praise.

 

[Cavalcade Roger]

I am sure the SURE program may be beneficial to SONY Style stores only.

The best camera stores in Chicago carry almost no Sony gear. The owner of the oldest and best photography business, 110 year old Central Camera, told me more than once that he NEVER will carry SONY. That decision has nothing to do with the product, and of course, since there is no Alpha line there, the SURE policy isn't relavant at Central Camera. The owner hates that SONY demands he stock large inventories. Central was a very effective Minolta dealer before SONY took over. Central has a nice selection of used Minolta lenses, and several new mid-level Tamron's for the A mount.

Helix Camera has some high-end bodies, but NO LENSES other than some basic, used Minolta glass. The a900 on display has a Minolta 24-105 attached. Helix also has the attractive Sony Stand-up display I've seen in other stores in Denver and in Arizona, but NOTHING, NO PRODUCT AT ALL, is on that display. It just sits on the floor looking butt naked. The display is so dusty you'd think you were in a Gary steel mill. The display is designed to hold demo cameras, still and video.

SONY wants Central Camera to carry large inventories, but makes Helix an authorized dealer, yet Helix has only a few cameras on hand. Makes no sense to me.

Calumet in Chicago is where you'll find SONY gear. The best G and Zeiss lenses and some of the higher end legacy lenses from Minolta now branded with SONY's

name. There is nothing special about Calumet's prices...and I haven't seen any kind of sale or incentive discounts.

Wolf/Ritz....On Clybourne Avenue, they have the a850 and the Zeiss 135, and the 70-300G. I also saw one, that is a single Sony battery, for the 700-850-900. It was $74. The few remaining stores in this area carry the lower-end alphas and batteries, but few if any accessories.

I have said in a a previous post on this subject that SONY doesn't seem to understand what price negotiating and bargain shopping is. They don't know, or won't acknowledge the art of the deal. They won't undercut the competition, and that means their dealers can't either.
How Best Buy cut the cost of the a700 by half 18-months ago, I don't know.

If SONY allowed the specialty camera stores some leeway, maybe more would carry SONY.

Chicago is famous for its Maxwell Street reputation. Maxwell Street ( I wrote a book about it) was one of the greatest bazaar's in the world. You could by the best merchandise or the worst. As one subject of the book said, "On Maxwell Street, the best merchandise was knowledge."

On that street, in that once thriving marketplace, whatever you bought, you bargained for it. Only suckers would pay the initial asking price.

If Maxwell Street was still around, and if SONY demanded its SURE policy be implemented by vendors there, I guarantee that NO ONE WOULD BUY
any SONY products because the vendors would tell SONY to get out of town.

 

[rkbrooks]

It does not appear that the Sure program has helped Sony at all. Finding the Alpha system is nearly imposible. Of the two camera stores near me, one has never carried Sony and the other has a small inventory. The local Best Buy has one or two items on display sometimes, but never consistently. Costco quit carrying Sony, including the video products altogether.

I was an early convert to the Alpha system, when I moved to digital from film. I had been using my Canon AE-1, so I didn't have an investment in AF lenses to drive my decision. Liked the colors of the A100, and still do.

This coming September, at the beginning of Marching Band season (will have two in the high school band), I will be investing in some new equipment (both still and video). If I can't see it, touch it, review it, I won't be buying it.

--
Rich

 

[mission]

Not sure if the SURE program extends around the globe ... but the same type scenario (i.e. Sony disappearing from the smaller specialty stores) seems to happen all over the place.

Speaking to the owner of a smaller store, they were clearing out their Sony stock at cost ... as they hadn't moved any $ONY inventory in over 12 months ... it was literally gathering dust. The last time the SONY rep was there was over 18 months ago.

Unfortunately for them "at cost" was still more expensive than the gear I source from HK, Malaysia, USA or Japan.

e.g. I was looking for a A900 grip ... $RRP is $599AUD http://www.sony.com.au/product/vg-c90am - got one via Hong Kong for under $300AUD - which is significantly lower than their cost - with Asian neighbours so close - they don't stand a chance. Even greater differences when buying lenses. !!!

At the bigger "chain" electrical type stores you can only find 2XX and 3XX series Alphas with kit lenses - nothing higher and no extra lenses. Yet beside them is a case with a handful of Canon and Nikor lenses, sure they only carry up to a Canon 50D or 550D - Nikon D90 etc - but it makes the Sony's look like a bunch of P&S DSLR's in comparison.

The local Sony Store is about the only place I've seen the whole range of bodies - and almost the whole range of lenses (sans the 300mm 2.8 @ $13,990 RRP, no TC's and no STF). And they do them justice - several staff were sent on a couple of days training in a studio and outdoors - given the cameras to play with for a week and learn - but that was almost 2 years ago. But again they are crippled by wholesale prices that are higher than the sell prices of Asian neighbours AND higher than New Zealand !! eg. 135mm 1.8 $AUD2799 (after discounts closer to $2300) - I can get it from NZ (just across the ditch) for $1600AUD ... case closed.

Attempting to control the market so much is a valid strategy - esp when everyone is scrambling to buy your products, it's also a valid strategy if your product is struggling and you're trying to minimize the losses. But if you are trying to BUILD a market with a product that just doesn't sell itself - it'll never work.

I'll probably never leave Sony (with a collection of G and CZ's who would?), but as someone who gets constantly asked by friends, family and work mates about which camera to buy, I find it difficult to recommend Sony DSLR's to anyone looking to spend $1000-$2000AUD - where most of the market seems to be.

M

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

Not sure if the SURE program extends around the globe ... but the same type scenario (i.e. Sony disappearing from the smaller specialty stores) seems to happen all over the place.

It won't happen in the EU, resale price maintenance is actually illegal over here. Sony would be in court so fast they wouldn't have time to drop their memory stick!

I'm not sure it's helping their sales, USA seems very weak for Sony. Surely trying to control prices simply encourages retailers to dump the brand. After all why bother when you can stock the big 2 makers and sell far more.

Sony need to work out how to make more competitive products, and to be more aggressive on prices.

 

[fjbyrne]

Not sure if the SURE program extends around the globe ... but the same type scenario (i.e. Sony disappearing from the smaller specialty stores) seems to happen all over the place.

It won't happen in the EU, resale price maintenance is actually illegal over here. Sony would be in court so fast they wouldn't have time to drop their memory stick!

I'm not sure it's helping their sales, USA seems very weak for Sony. Surely trying to control prices simply encourages retailers to dump the brand. After all why bother when you can stock the big 2 makers and sell far more.

I don't know that it is primarily price that most of the small shops seem to have an issue with. It is that Sony apparently makes them carry more inventory than they want to. I don't blame a business for dropping Sony for that reason. Who do they think they are to tell someone how to run their business?

Sony need to work out how to make more competitive products, and to be more aggressive on prices.

I think they need to be more aggressive on prices to build market share. They still need to answer the question "Why buy Sony instead of Canon or Nikon?". Making better products for less money would be one great answer IMO.

--
Rick

 

[Russell Ervin]

fjbyrne wrote:
Who do they think they are to tell someone how to run their business?

Sony need to work out how to make more competitive products, and to be more aggressive on prices.

I think they need to be more aggressive on prices to build market share. They still need to answer the question "Why buy Sony instead of Canon or Nikon?". Making better products for less money would be one great answer IMO.

--
Rick

Funny question. Since everyone on this forum tells Sony how to run it's business..heheh.

If this forum did run Sony's business, they would be out of business. LOL Too many 'couch' CEOs here.
--



http://www.flickr.com/photos/quietrvr/
Gear=A camera with a lens.

 

[fjbyrne]

Sony need to work out how to make more competitive products, and to be more aggressive on prices.

I think they need to be more aggressive on prices to build market share. They still need to answer the question "Why buy Sony instead of Canon or Nikon?". Making better products for less money would be one great answer IMO.

--
Rick

Funny question. Since everyone on this forum tells Sony how to run it's business..heheh.

If this forum did run Sony's business, they would be out of business. LOL Too many 'couch' CEOs here.
--



http://www.flickr.com/photos/quietrvr/
Gear=A camera with a lens.

So what have you seen Russell? Is Sony's SURE plan working in your area?

--
Rick

 

[Ray Maines]

The best camera stores in Chicago carry almost no Sony gear. The owner ... told me more than once that he NEVER will carry SONY. .... The owner hates that SONY demands he stock large inventories. .....

You touch on something worth mentioning. I don't know what this may have to do with SURE, but Sony is a difficult company to work with. There are a couple of local car stereo stores and home audio stores that don't carry Sony gear because they just don't want to deal with the Sony Company.

--
Dispensing Wisdom One Post At A Time,
from Tacoma, Washington, USA

 

[Gil Knutson]

I am assuming that SURE is in effect here in Canada, but I haven't a clue, really...

In this town of about 80,000, Chilliwack, BC, there is only one "camera store", but it is a drug store... London Drugs. If anyone else has Sony cameras, I am not aware of it.

London drugs usually has, maybe, three bodies in the showcase, and maybe 3 lenses. You can order anything from Sony, they say, but they really don't have any "deals", other than their infrequent "sales".

They may have the same number of Pentax bodies and lenses, and perhaps one Olympus DSLR. They will have 4 or 5 Nikons or Canons, with maybe half a dozen lenses. Again, anything can, supposedly, be ordered.

The nearest Sony Style store that I know of is in Langley, about 50 km west of here. They have a pretty full selection of Sony lenses... perhaps 20 something. They do have the 16-80 but not the 16-105. I got to see both the 70-300 and 70-500, as well as the 500mm CAT. Fun to play with them.

They offered to sell me whatever I wanted, with no interest for 6 months. Not really any "Sale Prices" though.

So, to say the SURE program is effective one way or the other, I haven't any evidence about it. I would say that probably not, because no one else around here seems to want to carry Sony DSLR's.

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada

 

[Russell Ervin]

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/quietrvr/
Gear=A camera with a lens.

 

[Gil Knutson]

You touch on something worth mentioning. I don't know what this may have to do with SURE, but Sony is a difficult company to work with. There are a couple of local car stereo stores and home audio stores that don't carry Sony gear because they just don't want to deal with the Sony Company.

Many, many have mentioned this before: the comments made by dealers online and customers all mention how much of an unreasonable distributor Sony is to deal with, PERIOD!

I don't have any evidence to support or deny this PERSONALLY, but I always feel that where there is so much danged smoke, there sure as heck has to be a fire somewhere....

For a Big Business, Sony seems to lack something. Maybe it has worked in Japan for them, but at this moment I notice a lot of negative vibes regarding their business practices here in the English speaking part of North America.

Come on, Sony!!! Smell the coffee/roses/whatever.

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada

 

[Gil Knutson]

.... but as someone who gets constantly asked by friends, family and work mates about which camera to buy, I find it difficult to recommend Sony DSLR's to anyone looking to spend $1000-$2000AUD - where most of the market seems to be.

When asked, I say Nikon is pretty good, and Canon sells a lot, but if I were doing it again, I would get a Pentax.

Three gals on staff have Pentax DSLRs, one of them "upgraded" to the K-x... and all three of them rave about them... and the photos they get are second to nobody.

Pentax is NOT one of "The Big Guys", but is a good solid innovative camera maker that has some good cameras and many good lenses. Unfortunately, the tele end is ignored, and what Pentax has is expensive just like Sony....

I always root for the underdog, it seems....

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada

 

[Gil Knutson]

Sony need to work out how to make more competitive products, and to be more aggressive on prices.

I think they need to be more aggressive on prices to build market share. They still need to answer the question "Why buy Sony instead of Canon or Nikon?". Making better products for less money would be one great answer IMO.

Very, very sad.... but true. I fear that before they clue into this, they will have managed to convince the buying public that Sony means "more expensive than most" but "nothing special".

People seem to be staying away in droves...... aren't they???

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada

 

[fjbyrne]

--
Rick

 

[cyainparadise]

--



http://www.flickr.com/photos/quietrvr/
Gear=A camera with a lens.

Care to elaborate? Are you saying that the SURE program is working because the stores that carry Sony are carrying more Sony equipment? Are there more camera stores carrying Sony?

Or, is it just preventing the SonyStyle store from having to be competitive?

 

[cgarrard]

Pentax is on point right now, they keep it up and you'll see many more minolta/sony diehards go to them.

They should make one camera body higher than the K7 (in either APS c/h or full frame) if they want to penetrate the ethusiast/pro market a bit more. At that point they should develop a couple more zooms and longer focal length lenses - and assess the situation from there.

Right now they are on target though.

--
http://www.AlphaMountWorld.com