How is the M with manual focusing?

[prime instinct]

MinAZ wrote: I'm just curious how well the EOS M performs using manual focus? I've read a lot about the M's poor AF performance, but not too much about its manual focus performance... (with the two kit lenses). Does the lack of a viewfinder prove a hindrance?

The Best Solution to bypassed the Slow AF is to enable EOS-M 's Touch-To-Focus. This is the fastest, since all the AF decision is made by you. Where you touch on the screen is where the camera will focus and snap the photo. Pretty Quick and works great in Macro when pin-point focusing is critical.

In my experience, touch-shutter can sometimes insist on focusing on background stuff in macro situations. I just installed ML, and the "Live view zoom tweaks" features - under "Prefs" menu - works fairly well for MF mode, where I turn the focus ring and the screen zooms 10x. Stop turning the ring and it zooms back out after about 1 sec. It's buggy in AF+MF though. And the focus/zoom point cannot be selected in MF mode while in ML interface.

 

[John TF]

MinAZ wrote: I'm just curious how well the EOS M performs using manual focus? I've read a lot about the M's poor AF performance, but not too much about its manual focus performance... (with the two kit lenses). Does the lack of a viewfinder prove a hindrance?

The Best Solution to bypassed the Slow AF is to enable EOS-M 's Touch-To-Focus. This is the fastest, since all the AF decision is made by you. Where you touch on the screen is where the camera will focus and snap the photo. Pretty Quick and works great in Macro when pin-point focusing is critical.

Are you talking about enabling the touch shutter? I can't find a "Touch-To-Focus" in the menu.

Yes, he is.

 

[T3]

I'm just curious how well the EOS M performs using manual focus? I've read a lot about the M's poor AF performance, but not too much about its manual focus performance... (with the two kit lenses). Does the lack of a viewfinder prove a hindrance?

If you want easy manual focus with focusing aids, the EOS M is not the camera for you. Doing focus magnification on the EOS M requires too much screen tapping. First, you have to tap the magnifier icon on the screen to tell the camera you want to go into magnification mode. You'd think that first tap would get you a magnified image to focus by, but nope, it only gets you to 1X (no magnification). Then you have to tap the screen a second time to get to 5X magnification. At this time you may manually focus the camera at this magnification. You'd think that's it, right? Nope. You have to tap again to get to 10X mode, then again to get out of magnification mode. As you can see, there's a lot of screen tapping if you want to use magnification to assist in manual focus. Plus, there's no focus peaking.

Focus magnification is done much more effectively on other mirrorless systems. I have a Fuji X-E1, and this is how it's done: one press gets you in, one press gets you out of focus magnification. Furthermore, you get focus magnification with focus peaking. In addition, what you are pressing isn't a button, it's actually a wheel that you're pressing in. Turn the wheel to the right, you get 3X magnification. Turn the wheel to the left you, you get 10X magnification. Rotating the wheel right or left will alternate magnification between 3x and 10x , whichever way you turn it. No need to cycle through 1X, 5X, 10X, back to 1X like on the EOS M.

I also use Olympus m4/3. Focus magnification can be activated with a press of a button, or simply by turning the manual focus ring. When you turn the focus ring on the lens, you can set the camera to automatically jump into focus magnification mode. Stop manually focusing the lens, and the camera automatically jumps out of focus magnification. Super easy and super simple. It's the same with the Samsung NX mirrorless system too. Samsung's system also allows other customizability when it comes to manual focus aids and how to activate them.

Canon really ought to take a look at how other camera systems implement manual focus. Not only is focus magnification so much easier to initiate in other camera systems, they also give you a lot more options (focus peaking, assignable buttons, faster cycling through magnification levels, etc.) EOS M requires far too much screen tapping. It gets in the way of shooting.

 

[T3]

MinAZ wrote: I'm just curious how well the EOS M performs using manual focus? I've read a lot about the M's poor AF performance, but not too much about its manual focus performance... (with the two kit lenses). Does the lack of a viewfinder prove a hindrance?

The Best Solution to bypassed the Slow AF is to enable EOS-M 's Touch-To-Focus. This is the fastest, since all the AF decision is made by you. Where you touch on the screen is where the camera will focus and snap the photo. Pretty Quick and works great in Macro when pin-point focusing is critical.

So your solution for someone who's asking about MF is "use AF"? LOL.

 

[MinAZ]

This is a great explanation, thanks!

I'm just curious how well the EOS M performs using manual focus? I've read a lot about the M's poor AF performance, but not too much about its manual focus performance... (with the two kit lenses). Does the lack of a viewfinder prove a hindrance?

If you want easy manual focus with focusing aids, the EOS M is not the camera for you. Doing focus magnification on the EOS M requires too much screen tapping. First, you have to tap the magnifier icon on the screen to tell the camera you want to go into magnification mode. You'd think that first tap would get you a magnified image to focus by, but nope, it only gets you to 1X (no magnification). Then you have to tap the screen a second time to get to 5X magnification. At this time you may manually focus the camera at this magnification. You'd think that's it, right? Nope. You have to tap again to get to 10X mode, then again to get out of magnification mode. As you can see, there's a lot of screen tapping if you want to use magnification to assist in manual focus. Plus, there's no focus peaking.

Focus magnification is done much more effectively on other mirrorless systems. I have a Fuji X-E1, and this is how it's done: one press gets you in, one press gets you out of focus magnification. Furthermore, you get focus magnification with focus peaking. In addition, what you are pressing isn't a button, it's actually a wheel that you're pressing in. Turn the wheel to the right, you get 3X magnification. Turn the wheel to the left you, you get 10X magnification. Rotating the wheel right or left will alternate magnification between 3x and 10x , whichever way you turn it. No need to cycle through 1X, 5X, 10X, back to 1X like on the EOS M.

I also use Olympus m4/3. Focus magnification can be activated with a press of a button, or simply by turning the manual focus ring. When you turn the focus ring on the lens, you can set the camera to automatically jump into focus magnification mode. Stop manually focusing the lens, and the camera automatically jumps out of focus magnification. Super easy and super simple. It's the same with the Samsung NX mirrorless system too. Samsung's system also allows other customizability when it comes to manual focus aids and how to activate them.

Canon really ought to take a look at how other camera systems implement manual focus. Not only is focus magnification so much easier to initiate in other camera systems, they also give you a lot more options (focus peaking, assignable buttons, faster cycling through magnification levels, etc.) EOS M requires far too much screen tapping. It gets in the way of shooting.

 

[keeponkeepingon]

MinAZ wrote: I'm just curious how well the EOS M performs using manual focus? I've read a lot about the M's poor AF performance, but not too much about its manual focus performance... (with the two kit lenses). Does the lack of a viewfinder prove a hindrance?

The Best Solution to bypassed the Slow AF is to enable EOS-M 's Touch-To-Focus. This is the fastest, since all the AF decision is made by you. Where you touch on the screen is where the camera will focus and snap the photo. Pretty Quick and works great in Macro when pin-point focusing is critical.

The problem is that this solution only works as long as the AF is working. And the AF stops working quite quickly as light levels start to drop. Often, there just is no way around MFing, especially with the 22mm. There are surprisingly little low light people shots posted on this forum even though the M + 22mm f2 should be great for that spec wise. Tells you a little about its true usability for that kind of purpose.

Also, I don't really get your remark about macro. At least with mine, touch focus (or the M's AF in general) is quite worthless as you approach 1:1 magnification, even with focus limiter turned on. Much faster to use MF + touch magnifier.

I find that at the distance I shoot my kids with the 22mm the AF assist beam works fine in any level of light even pitch dark. Are you not using the AF assist beam or are you shooting people beyond the reach of the af assist beam?

 

[johnsmith404]

MinAZ wrote: I'm just curious how well the EOS M performs using manual focus? I've read a lot about the M's poor AF performance, but not too much about its manual focus performance... (with the two kit lenses). Does the lack of a viewfinder prove a hindrance?

The Best Solution to bypassed the Slow AF is to enable EOS-M 's Touch-To-Focus. This is the fastest, since all the AF decision is made by you. Where you touch on the screen is where the camera will focus and snap the photo. Pretty Quick and works great in Macro when pin-point focusing is critical.

The problem is that this solution only works as long as the AF is working. And the AF stops working quite quickly as light levels start to drop. Often, there just is no way around MFing, especially with the 22mm. There are surprisingly little low light people shots posted on this forum even though the M + 22mm f2 should be great for that spec wise. Tells you a little about its true usability for that kind of purpose.

Also, I don't really get your remark about macro. At least with mine, touch focus (or the M's AF in general) is quite worthless as you approach 1:1 magnification, even with focus limiter turned on. Much faster to use MF + touch magnifier.

I find that at the distance I shoot my kids with the 22mm the AF assist beam works fine in any level of light even pitch dark. Are you not using the AF assist beam or are you shooting people beyond the reach of the af assist beam?

Actually, even higher end cameras do struggle to achieve focus with AF assist when it's really dark, yet here you are, claiming that the M out of all cameras doesn't have a problem with that. You're pushing it a little aren't you?

Mine often doesn't focus correctly even with AF assist and subjects close. At those times, there is no way around MF which makes OPs question relevant (unlike 007peter implies). Besides, it's not always appropriate to use the AF assist beam. For your kids that may be fine but for other occassions it's not. Especially in lowish light, that beam can have quite a dazzling effect. Combine that with the slow AF and by the time it locks, your subject may be quite annoyed which shows on images.

 

[HaroldC3]

When you magnify the view the whole screen zooms in, so you have to zoom out to 1x to see the whole shot. There is no way to magnify only part of the frame.

 

[Gesture]

Yes. One of the biggest issues for may of us, besides the sensor quality. Video, I believe, is excellent.

 

[CheeC]

Since it has magnified view 5x and 10x it works good. I just dislike that you can't magnify just the focus box and you have to cycle through each zoom to get to 1x zoom.

If you're comfortable using Magic Lantern, there is a way to go direct to 10x zoom on half shutter press and back out on release.

But that option is available on Manual Focus mode only. Not allowed even with AF+MF mode.

 

[johnsmith404]

Since it has magnified view 5x and 10x it works good. I just dislike that you can't magnify just the focus box and you have to cycle through each zoom to get to 1x zoom.

If you're comfortable using Magic Lantern, there is a way to go direct to 10x zoom on half shutter press and back out on release.

But that option is available on Manual Focus mode only. Not allowed even with AF+MF mode.

It's kinda nice but actually fairly limited in real world use. Btw. you can assign magnification to the MF ring too. The problem is that if you want to change the zoom box position, you still have to go through the 1x magnification which negates the benefit of the direct access. I.e. unless you are fine with focusing on the center and recomposing (which goes against the whole UI concept of the M though).

If you could just tap the screen + turn the MF ring to magnify, things would be so easy... or at least swipe to change zoom box position while magnified (instead of pressing those tiny on-screen buttons).

 

[CheeC]

Since it has magnified view 5x and 10x it works good. I just dislike that you can't magnify just the focus box and you have to cycle through each zoom to get to 1x zoom.

If you're comfortable using Magic Lantern, there is a way to go direct to 10x zoom on half shutter press and back out on release.

But that option is available on Manual Focus mode only. Not allowed even with AF+MF mode.

It's kinda nice but actually fairly limited in real world use. Btw. you can assign magnification to the MF ring too. The problem is that if you want to change the zoom box position, you still have to go through the 1x magnification which negates the benefit of the direct access. I.e. unless you are fine with focusing on the center and recomposing (which goes against the whole UI concept of the M though).

If you could just tap the screen + turn the MF ring to magnify, things would be so easy... or at least swipe to change zoom box position while magnified (instead of pressing those tiny on-screen buttons).

Oh, there's no changing the box location with this. It starts wherever you left it before moving to MF.

You could activate magic zoom by turning the ring but the zoom box isn't terribly good.

 

[expwmbat]

We seem to be far from the OP's original question. I find MF to work great on the M--but when using manual lenses. For my purposes, trying to manually focus the standard EF-M/EF-S/EF lenses is frustrating--the "focus-by-wire" feature seems imprecise and overly sensitive for dialing in accurate MF. However, with an adaptor and FD lens, the camera works great. Probably 90% of my shooting is now done with the FD 35/2 SSC (the concave thorium version). I put the camera in Aperture control mode, alter the aperture manually on the lens, and allow the sensor to choose ISO and shutter speeds for me (although I'll alter those depending on the shot too).

I love my M, but I wish the AF worked better, particularly for sports. Otherwise the AF works great with my lenses (22mm, 40mm pancake, 55-250IS). But I like the user experience with the manual FD lenses best. I'll be getting a Zeiss Sonnar 50/1.5 soon to see how that works as well.

My advice is to use manual lenses if you want to use manual focus. The modern Canon lenses just aren't designed for effective manual use. But it's not the camera's fault--the screen works extremely well for manual focus.

Cheers,

Daniel

 

[Tocsa]

I second the previous post about using old MF lenses on the M, especially for macro. You can use the magic lantern focus peaking feature with MF which I found works quite well, especially outside when you just move back and forth until you see the focus peaks - no need to rotate the focus ring after initial approximation. A good flash is essential though to freeze the action with slow aperture. I use a yongnuo ring flash (bargain).

 

[leopardskin]

If you want easy manual focus with focusing aids, the EOS M is not the camera for you. Doing focus magnification on the EOS M requires too much screen tapping. First, you have to tap the magnifier icon on the screen to tell the camera you want to go into magnification mode. You'd think that first tap would get you a magnified image to focus by, but nope, it only gets you to 1X (no magnification). Then you have to tap the screen a second time to get to 5X magnification. At this time you may manually focus the camera at this magnification. You'd think that's it, right? Nope. You have to tap again to get to 10X mode, then again to get out of magnification mode. As you can see, there's a lot of screen tapping if you want to use magnification to assist in manual focus. Plus, there's no focus peaking.

Yes, all correct by default.

The situation changes with Magic Lantern installed and set up:

1. frame
2. half press the shutter = you get the 5x (or 10x if you wish) magnification on full screen (central part of your frame)
3. focus
4. press the shutter completely to take a picture (or release the shutter to reframe and press again to take picture)

This is the only feature I use from ML, all the rest I turn off. It works in photo and video mode as well (not while recording however). I have only fully manual lenses for this little camera so can't comment on manual focusing with Canon's kit EF-M lenses.