G9ii Hi Res Problem (Random Blurry Patches)

[VDurden]

Hello everyone. Even though Im reading this forum a long time ago, I decided to join and open this thread, in order to discuss a little more about a problem I found in my new G9ii's hi res files.

The description of the problem is that in Hi Res modes (both on tripod and handheld mode), if you pay attention you can easily find random blurry patches across the image. The quantity and the size of these patches differs from shot to shot.

This problem was obvious in DPReview's Studio shots also, and at the time I thought that something was wrong with the stability of the camera on set, or some setting error.


(Here you can find some examples from the hi res studio shot of DPReview at 100 ISO) :

Unfortunately, after a lot of testing in my new camera the last two weeks, I can confirm that this problem is not a matter of camera stability (The camera stabilty problem when is present, can be seen in the images in the rough defining lines of the objects, but the random blurry patches are something different).

I tried a lot of things and settings (different isos, different hi res modes, different shutter speed modes, and variable exposure times), but the problem insists. So far it seems a little better when I extend the ISO to 50, but Im not sure if thats the case.

My guess is that this problem is related to some internal denoise procedure.

What is your experience with this? Have you noticed it? Do you have any working solutions?

For me its a very important issue, and I really hope that Panasonic fix this thing with a future firmware update. Its such a pity a videocentric camera like GH6 not having this problem, and the photocentric G9ii to be problematic in this area.

P/S1: The fun fact is, that I tested the tripod hi res mode of G9ii vs the GFX50sii of a friend, with equavalent lenses and settings, and having this (significant) problem aside, G9ii produces extremely close image quality with the medium format Fuji! So close that I guess if everything worked properly no one could tell the difference...

P/S2: My native language is not english, so please forgive any mistakes you may find here.

 

[glassoholic]

Interesting discovery! Hopefully someone can explain further what is going on here and whether a firmware update could fix it.

I am quite interested in the Panasonic Handheld Highres potential due to its ability to compensate well for subject motion... the Olympus HHHR is very sensitive to any subject motion.

 

[VDurden]

Unfortunately this problem occurs in handheld mode too. And that is certainly a pity, cause if the high resolution modes in G9ii worked without this issue, then we could talk about the best implementation of computational high res modes ever. The image quality without this issue would be unparallel with everything that exists in m4/3 and APSC worlds so far.


I really hope that Panasonic will notice it, and that is something that could be fixed with a firmware update.

 

[ZodiacPhoto]

Interesting!

May I ask, if you photograph the same scene a few times, do these blurred blotches appear in the same places, or they are distributed randomly?

 

[VDurden]

Interesting!

May I ask, if you photograph the same scene a few times, do these blurred blotches appear in the same places, or they are distributed randomly?

Judging from my tests, the patches appear in different places, randomly

 

[jrsforums]

I just shot this Hi-res, mode1, image. I cannot find similar blurriness. (Not sure how dPR compression will effect it, but all is clear on my screen.

PS….lighting was LCD panel, so again, not sure what effect the variability will have, but I was just looking for the random blur.

View attachment 8bf231a15b4b4c4b9a66a595e055f746.jpg

 

[VDurden]

I just shot this Hi-res, mode1, image. I cannot find similar blurriness. (Not sure how dPR compression will effect it, but all is clear on my screen.

PS….lighting was LCD panel, so again, not sure what effect the variability will have, but I was just looking for the random blur.

View attachment 8bf231a15b4b4c4b9a66a595e055f746.jpg

Unfortunately they are in your pictures too. Remember, these patches can be seen only in very big prints or on very carefull and close up look.

I have circled some examples in your pictures and Im uploading some close up crops too:






View attachment 19d5aad2b04c41d4a0fd2f8346a1436b.jpg



and here there are the close ups:

You may think that this is a minor problem, but in big prints (one of the main serious reasons for someone to shoot high res) and with subjects full of fine details, that would be a disaster.

 

[glassoholic]

I just shot this Hi-res, mode1, image. I cannot find similar blurriness. (Not sure how dPR compression will effect it, but all is clear on my screen.

PS….lighting was LCD panel, so again, not sure what effect the variability will have, but I was just looking for the random blur.

View attachment 8bf231a15b4b4c4b9a66a595e055f746.jpg

Unfortunately they are in your pictures too. Remember, these patches can be seen only in very big prints or on very carefull and close up look.
I have circled some examples in your pictures and Im uploading some close up crops too:

View attachment 19d5aad2b04c41d4a0fd2f8346a1436b.jpg

and here there are the close ups:

You may think that this is a minor problem, but in big prints (one of the main serious reasons for someone to shoot high res) and with subjects full of fine details, that would be a disaster.

Indeed, if looking closely at a huge print, chances are one would see one or more patches of this issue. Maybe the Panasonic internal processing needs a tweek via a firmware update. Have you submitted a question directly to Panasonic with samples?

--
Addicted To Glass
M43 equivalence: "Twice the fun with half the weight"
"You are a long time dead" -
Credit to whoever said that first and my wife for saying it to me... Make the best you can of every day!

 

[yslee2]

Curious, are the lower-resolution patches equal to that of photos taken at the normal resolution?

I'm wondering if it's the algorithm that detects for movement misidentified them as areas of movement. Either way it's definitely a software problem, hope it gets fixed soon.

 

[Keit ll]

Does this issue occur with the G9's hi-res mode?

 

[Jens_ac]

Curious, are the lower-resolution patches equal to that of photos taken at the normal resolution?

I'm wondering if it's the algorithm that detects for movement misidentified them as areas of movement. Either way it's definitely a software problem, hope it gets fixed soon.

So did you tell Panasonic about this possible software problem or are you actually hoping, that someone else will tell them so that you soon perhaps may start to hope that Panasonic starts to fix it?

 

[glassoholic]

Curious, are the lower-resolution patches equal to that of photos taken at the normal resolution?

I'm wondering if it's the algorithm that detects for movement misidentified them as areas of movement. Either way it's definitely a software problem, hope it gets fixed soon.

I was thinking this too.

 

[James Stirling]

How does this issue show in your own pixel shift images with more real life subjects unless your specialty is test scenes Maybe you could upload a random raw pixel shift image or anyone else with the G9 II could oblige . If the issue is software based within the camera processing it should show up in every image.

I don't have a G9 II myself , looking at the raw pixel shift images . The 1600 ISO does not seem to show the same soft areas

100% crops from raw pixel shift 1600 ISO image, there is an increase in noise but any soft areas are not noticeable. The 1600 ISO shot has a much faster shutter speed . It will be interesting to see what other G9 II owners come up with

--
Jim Stirling:
“It is one thing to show a man that he is in error, and another to put him in possession of truth.” Locke
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

 

[James Stirling]

Curious, are the lower-resolution patches equal to that of photos taken at the normal resolution?

I'm wondering if it's the algorithm that detects for movement misidentified them as areas of movement. Either way it's definitely a software problem, hope it gets fixed soon.

So did you tell Panasonic about this possible software problem or are you actually hoping, that someone else will tell them so that you soon perhaps may start to hope that Panasonic starts to fix it?

I think that they are simply asking questions about the topic in the OP to try and pin down a possible cause , I don't see why you have an issue with the post. As yslee says hopefully it is just a processing glitch that can be fixed in firmware

 

[James Stirling]

How does this issue show in your own pixel shift images with more real life subjects unless your specialty is test scenes Maybe you could upload a random raw pixel shift image or anyone else with the G9 II could oblige . If the issue is software based within the camera processing it should show up in every image.

I don't have a G9 II myself , looking at the raw pixel shift images . The 1600 ISO does not seem to show the same soft areas

100% crops from raw pixel shift 1600 ISO image, there is an increase in noise but any soft areas are not noticeable. The 1600 ISO shot has a much faster shutter speed . It will be interesting to see what other G9 II owners come up with

100% crops can often be a curse of digital processing , this is how little of the test scene you see filling a 32" 4k screen

--
Jim Stirling:
“It is one thing to show a man that he is in error, and another to put him in possession of truth.” Locke
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

 

[yslee2]

So did you tell Panasonic about this possible software problem or are you actually hoping, that someone else will tell them so that you soon perhaps may start to hope that Panasonic starts to fix it?

 

[VDurden]

One solution that I thought, and it seems to work, is to take multiple high res shots of the same frame on tripod, and then stack them and image average them in photoshop. This technique will add clear layers on the blurry points, and at the same time will even clean further the image noise.

The only obvious downside of this, is that your final image may seem (in terms of moving objects) as result of a very long exposure shot.

 

[Jens_ac]

Curious, are the lower-resolution patches equal to that of photos taken at the normal resolution?

I'm wondering if it's the algorithm that detects for movement misidentified them as areas of movement. Either way it's definitely a software problem, hope it gets fixed soon.

So did you tell Panasonic about this possible software problem or are you actually hoping, that someone else will tell them so that you soon perhaps may start to hope that Panasonic starts to fix it?

I think that they are simply asking questions about the topic in the OP to try and pin down a possible cause , I don't see why you have an issue with the post. As yslee says hopefully it is just a processing glitch that can be fixed in firmware

My issue is simple: There is no reason for any hope for a fix if nobody told Panasonic about the (possible) issue. If one explains this hope in this forum it thus suggests that this person did inform Panasonic so that other persons do not need to do that anymore. Probably that is wrong. That is why I asked but did not get an answer yet - or maybe I did not understand that video in case that was an answer...

Did anybody send a bug report to Panasonic yet? If not: There is no reason for hope and perhaps also no real need for a fix - at least not enough need to justify the effort to write an email (but then: why enough reason to write posts here?).

Strange...

 

[James Stirling]

Curious, are the lower-resolution patches equal to that of photos taken at the normal resolution?

I'm wondering if it's the algorithm that detects for movement misidentified them as areas of movement. Either way it's definitely a software problem, hope it gets fixed soon.

So did you tell Panasonic about this possible software problem or are you actually hoping, that someone else will tell them so that you soon perhaps may start to hope that Panasonic starts to fix it?

I think that they are simply asking questions about the topic in the OP to try and pin down a possible cause , I don't see why you have an issue with the post. As yslee says hopefully it is just a processing glitch that can be fixed in firmware

My issue is simple: There is no reason for any hope for a fix if nobody told Panasonic about the (possible) issue. If one explains this hope in this forum it thus suggests that this person did inform Panasonic so that other persons do not need to do that anymore. Probably that is wrong. That is why I asked but did not get an answer yet - or maybe I did not understand that video in case that was an answer...

Did anybody send a bug report to Panasonic yet? If not: There is no reason for hope and perhaps also no real need for a fix - at least not enough need to justify the effort to write an email (but then: why enough reason to write posts here?).

I don't think Yslee owns a G9II it was just a suggestion for possible causes of the issue. It is an unusual issue . It would be interesting to see real life examples of the pixel shift rather than test shots . You are right that people experiencing the issue should drop an email to Panasonic the more that do it the better.

In another post below I noticed that the higher ISO pixel shift shot does not seem to show this issue. Perhaps something to do with the much faster shutter speed . Hopefully it will be fixable in firmware . Though the OP has tested various combinations he did not post any examples just crops of the test scene. I could not find any real life { non test scene } examples of the G9II pixel shift . I also wondered if there could be some glitch caused by motion correction or some such

 

[James Stirling]

I just shot this Hi-res, mode1, image. I cannot find similar blurriness. (Not sure how dPR compression will effect it, but all is clear on my screen.

PS….lighting was LCD panel, so again, not sure what effect the variability will have, but I was just looking for the random blur.

View attachment 8bf231a15b4b4c4b9a66a595e055f746.jpg

If you could spare the time would it be possible for you to do the shot at different ISO settings { same lighting } . I noticed with the test scene the only example shown by the OP, at higher ISO settings { maybe something to do with faster shutter speed ? } don't seem to have the issues

Extreme 200% crops to demonstrate even tiny differences { this is equivalent to a near 80" wide print }

--
Jim Stirling:
“It is one thing to show a man that he is in error, and another to put him in possession of truth.” Locke
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post