Dumb Google

[kelpdiver]

Somehow I managed to ride my Kawasaki solo from Austin to South Laguna and back in 1971 without any of those things. And quite a few other trips as well.

There were more gas stations then. On the motorcycle, this is a much bigger deal, esp for those Harley guys with the tiny teardrop tanks. My BMWs generally had 5+ gallon capacity, but I normally refuels after the light came on, so 20-40 miles before the end. Old days would be similar with the reserve tank.

Last week's software update fixed the annoyance of having to use the touchscreen to accept an incoming call. Now you can use the left steering wheel button. and you can also select another function you want mapped to it as well. No longer are we trapped by the sloppy UI decisions made a year before our vehicle is made.

That all strikes me as trivial, sorry.

That one is. But updates to the adaptive cruise control or emergency braking is not. Far better that these can be improved with no effort rather than you being stuck with the design, or having to go to the dealer for a firmware update.

No more for me.

You're way too defensive on all of this. No one is making you do a thing, and I doubt in our lifetime that will actually change. Its opportunity for most. It's not for some, though far fewer than actually think so.

And these replies were to your assertion: "LOL, it's not like the routes to the places I want to go out West have changed significantly. National parks and monuments seldom undergo major changes in location."

And the truth is, yes the solution to get to or through Yosemite changes, as do other national parks and monuments in the west. Esp this year as the massive snowmelt blocking many roads will turn into a giant melt that may lead to landslides or roads being washed away. Gas stations go away. They rarely come back.

One of my colleagues from Seattle is about to do a bike tour through coastal and eastern Oregon and you can bet he'll be viewing to the ODT site to see if there are any issues with the intended route.

 

[kelpdiver]

Nonetheless, I can usually find a 2 hour flight for $200-400. Slam dunk better choice for 1. Slightly more even math for 2. Driving may win out for 3+.

If you're talking about a short-term trip, that may be a different story (with differing considerations). If you need to bring a bunch of stuff with you, or you are staying an extended time and need or want your car while you're there, then flying is not really an option. Those were my usual cases.

Yes, there are variables, though you're being more than a bit vague on them. I can pack close to 150lbs of stuff on a plane flight, with obvious limitations. I don't have many scenarios where spending over $1000 to drive that 1000 miles wins out. This feels like the people who buy hummers for safety and utility though they will never leave pave road.

You could be the 1 in 1000. Or you could be fooling yourself. Most, or at least many, people overbuy their vehicle for the edge scenarios. They're always covered, but they pay a dear price for it. As does society overall.

That's you. What works for me differs substantially. Presumably you mean 20 minutes every 160 miles / 20 minutes every two hours. For me those sorts of stoppages for charging are unacceptable. Also, from my understanding, charging up 160 miles of range in 20 minutes is not the typical EV + typical charging station performance--most take more time.

But your understanding is not based on actual experience, and is instead relying on deliberately misleading reporting. I gave you a simple average - you don't have to stop every 160 miles on a Tesla, sometimes the supercharger will be slightly sooner or a bit longer.

I plugged into A Better Route Planner - Tesla 3 LR from San Francisco to Phoenix. 750 miles in 11 hours. 4 charging stops ranging from 6 to 17 minutes, for a total of 55 minutes. As I recall, for your 964 mile drive, you allocated 40 minutes for stops.

I can say with certainty that I spend far less time refueling my Tesla each year than you do your vehicle. The extra hour I spend on a trip to LA and back is balanced out by the rest of the time.

Yes, if you buy a Bolt, you're not getting out in 20 minutes. OTOH, you do get an awesome deal and a car that is incredibly cheap to operate for daily usage.

Those who routinely engage in long range driving will certainly bias towards the cars with bigger batteries/range, faster charging. These do cost more, so they may legitimately reach the conclusion that it's not the right course. The PHEV option might be right, though these come with the added complexity of having two drive trains, so not a free lunch. And the LR boat haulers will likely stick to diesel.

 

[Guy Parsons]

Wow, 118 replies and counting: we really should all be clicking on the Amazon ads here ;-)

Luckily everyone is being nice and that allows the Mods to let this seriously off topic thread develop freely.

Many thanks to the Mods for letting my silly initial thread run. I have learned a lot from the sub-threads.

 

[kelpdiver]

Modern cars are just too complicated, over-engineered and so all the more to go wrong. and expensive to boot. A decent (petrol) engine, decent 6-speed (manual) gearbox, good suspension and drive train, chain-driven camshaft. That's all I want, even manual wind up windows with a handle was to me very acceptable.

Modern cars are safer, more fuel efficient, less polluting, and offer higher performance. And are you sure you're accounting for simple inflation?

My 2013 Outback was only 2000 or so more than my 1997 one, and was moderately superior in most regards

Now, customer demands for power size, leather, stereos, nav systems ,etc have eliminated the viable market for practical cars. The Landcruiser used to be about offroading, and there were 4wd offerings from them and others where you could just hose down the interior to clean it. But not the choices you have in the US today. It became a luxury SUV with the first part being the priority.

 

[Austinian]

You're way too defensive on all of this.

Or are you way too insistent? Look how much text you've created in this continuing attempt to convince...someone?

 

[kelpdiver]

You're way too defensive on all of this.

Or are you way too insistent? Look how much text you've created in this continuing attempt to convince...someone?

bytes are free. Maybe you should use more to articulate whatever your complaint actually is, because it doesn't make any sense to me. Gas stations absolutely are in decline. Having to use the telephone to find things out is a 20th century problem. Having to go to the car dealer unnecessarily is silly, and usually expensive.

As for the others, one can come to conclusions for valid reasons, or based on false assumptions. Casting light on the latter is productive, because there is an entire industry trying to foster them, just as tobacco spent decades promoting falsehoods about the health effects.

 

[Austinian]

Wow, 118 replies and counting: we really should all be clicking on the Amazon ads here ;-)

Luckily everyone is being nice and that allows the Mods to let this seriously off topic thread develop freely.

Mod, singular, I'm afraid.

PC Talk members in general seem to be a bit more relaxed and tolerant of other views than some of the forums with battling fans of one or another camera brand or software product; I guess the admins figure that a tag team of mods like some forums have isn't necessary here.

And I think they're right; most of my work is removing spam posts, with the occasional post that turns an ordinary dispute into a personal insult contest.

Many thanks to the Mods for letting my silly initial thread run. I have learned a lot from the sub-threads.

You're welcome; there's much in this thread I've found personally entertaining as well.

 

[Austinian]

Wow, 118 replies and counting: we really should all be clicking on the Amazon ads here ;-)

:-D

I expect it'll end at or before the magic 149. I can hardly believe some of the endless argument threads I see on some of the new DPR aspirant forums. Some of those folks are really determined to outlast their rivals, but so are the rivals! It's a spectacle.

 

[BobKnDP]

Wow, 118 replies and counting: we really should all be clicking on the Amazon ads here ;-)

I'm taking another tack. Unsubscribed.

 

[Guy Parsons]

Wow, 118 replies and counting: we really should all be clicking on the Amazon ads here ;-)

Oh yes, what ads?

I never see any at all with Firefox and Adblocker Ultimate. At the moment I see that it has blocked 51 ads.

 

[LynniePad]

Modern cars are just too complicated, over-engineered and so all the more to go wrong. and expensive to boot. A decent (petrol) engine, decent 6-speed (manual) gearbox, good suspension and drive train, chain-driven camshaft. That's all I want, even manual wind up windows with a handle was to me very acceptable.

Achille’s heel of even the best manual gearbox is the clutch mechanism. I’ve had maintenance issues with clutches, but never a problem with auto transmissions.

 

[Guy Parsons]

Modern cars are just too complicated, over-engineered and so all the more to go wrong. and expensive to boot. A decent (petrol) engine, decent 6-speed (manual) gearbox, good suspension and drive train, chain-driven camshaft. That's all I want, even manual wind up windows with a handle was to me very acceptable.

Achille’s heel of even the best manual gearbox is the clutch mechanism. I’ve had maintenance issues with clutches, but never a problem with auto transmissions.

Had my Subaru Liberty/Legacy clutch replaced at 236,000 km and the mechanic's assessment was that it could have lasted longer. And that despite my bad habit of riding the clutch at traffic lights. So no complaints there.

Now the darn reversing light switch is acting up, that should have been replaced routinely in my opinion at the same time as the darn gearbox needs to be dropped or lowered to fit the stupid switch.

 

[David Lal]

Now the darn reversing light switch is acting up, that should have been replaced routinely in my opinion at the same time as the darn gearbox needs to be dropped or lowered to fit the stupid switch.

Well, that is cr@p engineering design isn't it? Also, an example of what I described as overengineering.

Could you fit a manual switch on the dashboard or door panel somewhere? That's what I did on many of my cars in the past.

 

[LynniePad]

Modern cars are just too complicated, over-engineered and so all the more to go wrong. and expensive to boot. A decent (petrol) engine, decent 6-speed (manual) gearbox, good suspension and drive train, chain-driven camshaft. That's all I want, even manual wind up windows with a handle was to me very acceptable.

Achille’s heel of even the best manual gearbox is the clutch mechanism. I’ve had maintenance issues with clutches, but never a problem with auto transmissions.

Had my Subaru Liberty/Legacy clutch replaced at 236,000 km and the mechanic's assessment was that it could have lasted longer. And that despite my bad habit of riding the clutch at traffic lights. So no complaints there.

Yes, I’ve ridden with people who treat the clutch pedal to be some form of foot-rest.

Now the darn reversing light switch is acting up, that should have been replaced routinely in my opinion at the same time as the darn gearbox needs to be dropped or lowered to fit the stupid switch.

I had a clutch hydraulics failure with my 350Z, unfortunately the slave cylinder is mounted INSIDE the gearbox bell housing, turning a $100 fix into major operation that most country garages would be reluctant to undertake. I chose to drive home 500km in 4th gear rather than getting brutal with a near-new 6-speed gearbox.

 

[Austinian]

Modern cars are just too complicated, over-engineered and so all the more to go wrong. and expensive to boot. A decent (petrol) engine, decent 6-speed (manual) gearbox, good suspension and drive train, chain-driven camshaft. That's all I want, even manual wind up windows with a handle was to me very acceptable.

Achille’s heel of even the best manual gearbox is the clutch mechanism. I’ve had maintenance issues with clutches, but never a problem with auto transmissions.

Vehicles with cable-operated clutches had a distressing tendency to break cables at inconvenient times. Mostly a motorcycle problem, but my old Civic CRX snapped one too.

 

[BobKnDP]

Modern cars are just too complicated, over-engineered and so all the more to go wrong. and expensive to boot. A decent (petrol) engine, decent 6-speed (manual) gearbox, good suspension and drive train, chain-driven camshaft. That's all I want, even manual wind up windows with a handle was to me very acceptable.

Achille’s heel of even the best manual gearbox is the clutch mechanism. I’ve had maintenance issues with clutches, but never a problem with auto transmissions.

Vehicles with cable-operated clutches had a distressing tendency to break cables at inconvenient times. Mostly a motorcycle problem, but my old Civic CRX snapped one too.

The clutch cable on my '84 Dodge Omni GLH (don't ask) broke as I was driving it to trade it in. What were the odds?

The dealer demanded $200 back. I was astonished when they refunded that some weeks later. I assumed that they got Chrysler to pay for the repair. If they had kept the money, I wouldn't have known anything about that.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

The world started the rules as driving in the left, though with horses at the time.

That was for sword-fighting and jousting. Now, of course, we use handguns while driving in the U.S., so you're right, it would be better to drive on the left. Those of us who still have something to shift, though, definitely prefer driving on the right, to avoid transmission repairs. But out in the country we drive in the middle.

So logically right side driving is wrong, even though more do that.

The situation is more complicated than that. I think you need to rethink it.

 

[kelpdiver]

Achille’s heel of even the best manual gearbox is the clutch mechanism. I’ve had maintenance issues with clutches, but never a problem with auto transmissions.

The CVT's history is much more bleak (esp Subaru's first attempt with the Justy), however, and they're astonishing expensive to repair.

The clutch is a wear item, but fairly cheap to redo in some cases. Once upon a time, it's ability to bump start was also nice, but that seems rather dated now.

 

[BobKnDP]

Achille’s heel of even the best manual gearbox is the clutch mechanism. I’ve had maintenance issues with clutches, but never a problem with auto transmissions.

The CVT's history is much more bleak (esp Subaru's first attempt with the Justy), however, and they're astonishing expensive to repair.

The clutch is a wear item, but fairly cheap to redo in some cases. Once upon a time, it's ability to bump start was also nice, but that seems rather dated now.

Darn. I wish my clutch repairs had been cheap.

89 Ford Taurus SHO. 2005 Honda CRX. 2013 Subaru WRX. The latter will be my last manual, probably.

The Ford and the Subaru were wear items. The Honda's clutch suddenly self-destructed; it wasn't slipping.

Yeah, that switch on the clutch pedal has pretty much done for bump starting.

 

[Sean Nelson]

Vehicles with cable-operated clutches had a distressing tendency to break cables at inconvenient times. Mostly a motorcycle problem, but my old Civic CRX snapped one too.

The clutch cable on my '84 Dodge Omni GLH (don't ask) broke as I was driving it to trade it in. What were the odds?

Yeah, the clutch cable on my 1976 VW Rabbit broke while I was out and about. Fortunately it was in the evening with less traffic and I was able to get back home without having to come to a complete stop anywhere. Had some touch-and-go moments, though, including a semitrailer sprawled across the entire road trying repeatedly to line himself up to back into somewhere. Fortunately I spotted that one a few blocks away and slowed right down to a crawl while he worked it out.