Do I need a viewfinder for point and shoot?

Paul Tremblay

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I am switching from film to digital and want to take a point and shoot to my beach vacation. I have narrowed my choices down to two cameras:

1. Canon PowerShot A1400

2. Nikon COOLPIX P310

I really lean towards the Nikon, but I have always had a viewfinder on my cameras, and worry that the lack of a viewfinder on the Nikon will frustrate me, especially in bright sun. The Canon camera has a viewfinder.

For a modern point and shoot such as the Nikon P310, can one get by without a viewfinder on a bright beach? Does the LCD screen give one enough of an image by which to compose the picture, or is it useless?
 
Solution
Well, I do anyway. It's not that it's impossible to take pictures without one, but, as others have mentioned, I've often ended up seeing little or nothing on the LCD display and had to guess at what might end up in the shot. It's hardly what I would call "composing" a picture--I just can't see it well enough.

When I've been out on day trips with friends, it often happens that people without viewfinders simply put their cameras away because they can't see the screen well enough to enjoy picture-taking. The small, tunnel-like, 80% coverage or so optical viewfinder on my Nikon P7100 is probably very similar to the one on the A1400; no, it's not a great viewfinder, but it does give a clear, easy-to-see view no matter how bright and...
tbcass wrote:
Paul Tremblay wrote:

I am switching from film to digital and want to take a point and shoot to my beach vacation. I have narrowed my choices down to two cameras:

1. Canon PowerShot A1400

2. Nikon COOLPIX P310

I really lean towards the Nikon, but I have always had a viewfinder on my cameras, and worry that the lack of a viewfinder on the Nikon will frustrate me, especially in bright sun. The Canon camera has a viewfinder.

For a modern point and shoot such as the Nikon P310, can one get by without a viewfinder on a bright beach? Does the LCD screen give one enough of an image by which to compose the picture, or is it useless?
The viewfinder on the A1400 is so bad as to be almost useless IMO. While not ideal LCDs are usable in bright sun, especially if you wear a baseball cap or other wide brim hat.
Yes, I also think LCD's are wonderful in sunlight provided you place the camera in a sealed box with a small viewing peephole to the rear and space for the lens to poke out of the front. Let's add some wooden legs to the box while we are about it and maybe call it a magic box! Full circle.

Nick
 
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chp wrote:
I'm one of these people that doesn't understand how anyone can live without a viewfinder on their cameras (assuming they want to take plenty of photos outdoors with it), so file my thoughts under "must have a viewfinder".
Agree.

Plus, lcd screen may be or become uncomfortable in some case if you need glasses (I am surprised none mentions that).
Me, too. I used to use an old Kodak slide viewer, slightly modified.






until I found a guy on these forums who makes a pretty inexpensive solution to the problem: a tripod-screw mounted magnifier which makes the LCD into a great "Virtual EVF":





Notice how your hands shield the LCD from the sun.



8522e737749f45d09b11b030f79ad413.jpg


Works with & without glasses - I've been using it for years - wouldn't leave home without it, attached to my camera, in my pockets.

-Erik



396b1e5c02af4f929f60f1f9c77a1b84.jpg


:-)

--
'He who hesitates is not only lost - he's miles from the next Exit.'
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]
 
NIK11 wrote:

Yes, I also think LCD's are wonderful in sunlight provided you place the camera in a sealed box with a small viewing peephole to the rear and space for the lens to poke out of the front. Let's add some wooden legs to the box while we are about it and maybe call it a magic box! Full circle.

Nick
I guess it depends on the LCD. My Sony RX100 LCD is usable even in direct sun at noon. I use it that way all the time. I do know I find the crappy OVFs of most P&S cameras nearly useless.

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63683676@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/
 
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tbcass wrote:
NIK11 wrote:

Yes, I also think LCD's are wonderful in sunlight provided you place the camera in a sealed box with a small viewing peephole to the rear and space for the lens to poke out of the front. Let's add some wooden legs to the box while we are about it and maybe call it a magic box! Full circle.

Nick
I guess it depends on the LCD. My Sony RX100 LCD is usable even in direct sun at noon. I use it that way all the time. I do know I find the crappy OVFs of most P&S cameras nearly useless.
Yes, many are very happy with LCD only. I think it all depends on expectations, shooting environment, whether careful framing is required, whether one has good or aging eyesight, and in terms of reflectivity whether one has a pale compexion or not.

I find the most demanding scenario for LCD's is late afternoon when the sun is low, surrounded by reflective surfaces like water/sand/glass/white buildings and I try to shoot into(facing ) the sun. Usually all I can see in the LCD is a reflection of my lit-up white face. In this situation the worst OVF would be a godsend. Midday sun is a breeze in comparison.

Nick
 
NIK11 wrote:
tbcass wrote:
Paul Tremblay wrote:

I am switching from film to digital and want to take a point and shoot to my beach vacation. I have narrowed my choices down to two cameras:

1. Canon PowerShot A1400

2. Nikon COOLPIX P310

I really lean towards the Nikon, but I have always had a viewfinder on my cameras, and worry that the lack of a viewfinder on the Nikon will frustrate me, especially in bright sun. The Canon camera has a viewfinder.

For a modern point and shoot such as the Nikon P310, can one get by without a viewfinder on a bright beach? Does the LCD screen give one enough of an image by which to compose the picture, or is it useless?
The viewfinder on the A1400 is so bad as to be almost useless IMO. While not ideal LCDs are usable in bright sun, especially if you wear a baseball cap or other wide brim hat.
Yes, I also think LCD's are wonderful in sunlight provided you place the camera in a sealed box with a small viewing peephole to the rear and space for the lens to poke out of the front. Let's add some wooden legs to the box while we are about it and maybe call it a magic box! Full circle.

Nick

Plus, how about a black cloth draped over the photographer?

!
 
Follow up:

I bought the Canon camer with the view finder because many here stated that the LCD didn't work in sunlight.

I took the camera out in bright sunlight (though not beach sunlight), and with the LCD brightness on default mode, I found I could see the LCD well enough to frame my subject. When I brightened the LCD to its maximum brightness, I found I could see the LCD perfectly. This surprised me.

So I am considering sending the Canon back and getting the Nikon, since the LCD seems more than adequate in direct sun.

However, perhaps under more challening lighting, my LCD might not allow me to see my subject.

I noted that the viewfinder in the Canon is also quite adequate. Other posters stated that the Canon's small viewfinder made it almost worthless. I did not find this. I am used to shooting with point and shoot film cameras (automatic Minoltas as well as the Rollei 35), and the viewfinder on the Canon seemed about as good as the viewfinders on these film cameras. Certainly, I can use it to frame my subject.

The Canon seems a very capable camera, with adequate manual control. Although you cannot set the aperture and shutter manually, you can lock the exposure. So I can carry a gray card, lock the settings on the gray card, and continue to shoot as many pictures as I want until I deactive the exposure lock. I ight use this trick at the beach.

The Canon also has three metering modes: overall (not the correct name!); centered weighted; and spot. So long as my subject was centered, I could use the last two at the beach, as well in other circumstances.

Also, the Canon has the ability to compensate for exposure up to 2 stops. I could also use this override at the beach.

Unfortunately, the Canon does not have a beach mode. I knew this already, but it frustrates me that it does not have the one mode I need, thought it has other gimicky modes, like toy camera affect. It does have a snow mode, but I don't think I can use this the beach, since snow mode adjusts for the blue tint of snow. Am I wrong about this?

By the way, I don't own a cell phone, so I couldn't really test how the LCD would look before I bought this camera. A quick test compring the LCD on my girlfriend's cell phone to the LCD on my Canon showed the Canon's much clearer in sunlight.
 
Paul Tremblay wrote:

Follow up:

I bought the Canon camer with the view finder because many here stated that the LCD didn't work in sunlight.

I took the camera out in bright sunlight (though not beach sunlight), and with the LCD brightness on default mode, I found I could see the LCD well enough to frame my subject. When I brightened the LCD to its maximum brightness, I found I could see the LCD perfectly. This surprised me.

So I am considering sending the Canon back and getting the Nikon, since the LCD seems more than adequate in direct sun.

However, perhaps under more challening lighting, my LCD might not allow me to see my subject.
Well, there's one way to find out! Some on this and similar threads have said they have no problem using an LCD under virtually any conditions; others of us have had difficulty a sufficient number of times to make having an optical viewfinder a priority. People are also different in what they can put up with. I visited someone in sunny San Antonio who had an older Sony Mavica, and I took along my identical Mavica for the trip. I got plenty of nice pictures with it, but it was frustrating to me to often only be able to see, at best, the vague outline or pattern of one or two objects, make a guess at the framing, and hope for the best. The other person saw the same things with his camera, of course, but was not in the least bothered by the minimally informative view.
Unfortunately, the Canon does not have a beach mode. I knew this already, but it frustrates me that it does not have the one mode I need, thought it has other gimicky modes, like toy camera affect. It does have a snow mode, but I don't think I can use this the beach, since snow mode adjusts for the blue tint of snow. Am I wrong about this?
One of the problems with camera manuals is that they are not very informative about exactly what the various modes do. I've read that with some camera's snow modes, they do indeed try to adjust for too much blue. Also, both snow and beach modes might increase exposure to ensure sand/snow is adequately bright, as well as reduce contrast to avoid washing out bright areas.

The Nikon has a lot more control over picture parameters than the Canon, as you'd expect when comparing a camera with a suggested list price of $329 with one selling for $109. The Nikon allows you to individually adjust contrast, sharpness, and saturation, which I find a tremendous help in getting pictures out-of-camera the way I want them. Of course, it's quite possible that these controls are overridden when using the scene modes. Most of the time, scene modes don't give you choices over very many things, often not even metering pattern.

Other things to like about the Nikon are its Active D-Lighting mode and its step zoom and zoom memory features. I take almost all my pictures at a 50mm equivalent setting, and the Nikon lets you program the camera to always zoom to your chosen focal length at startup. It also lets you program in particular focal lengths to jump to; for example, I might program it to use just the 35, 50, and 85mm focal lengths, but always start at 50mm. For me, its almost a must-have feature, but others would never use it even if it was there.

A little over a year ago I took a trip to the coast with friends. It was not exactly sunny, but was more what a person might call "cloudy bright." Our mix of Ricoh, Panasonic, and Fuji cameras all had tremendous difficulty letting us see well enough on the LCD to enjoy taking pictures, and it wasn't the first trip this happened on. It was immediately after that that I bought the Nikon P7100. It has all of the control I desire in a compact camera as well as an optical finder, which has proven its worth to me time and again since buying it. Unless its a shirt-pocketable waterproof model, I don't plan to ever again buy a camera without an optical viewfinder.

It's hard to make a choice and know you'll be happy with it. Every camera has its limitations, and only by owning and using one for a while will you discover what you can and can't live with. If you're thinking you can live with an LCD, the Nikon gives you more control over how your pictures will turn out. On the other hand, you've already got the Canon and know that its optical viewfinder is workable if needed. It might take great pictures for you even without the level of control offered by the Nikon. Trouble is, there's simply no way of knowing in advance.

By the way, don't be too quick to abandon the evaluative metering pattern. I was used to using a handheld spot meter to get more consistent results with my older film cameras, but I've been pleasantly surprised by the high percentage of times the evaluative mode gives great results.
 
NIK11 wrote:
I find the most demanding scenario for LCD's is late afternoon when the sun is low, surrounded by reflective surfaces like water/sand/glass/white buildings and I try to shoot into(facing ) the sun. Usually all I can see in the LCD is a reflection of my lit-up white face.
Even in that situation I have no trouble at all. It could be because I wear a baseball cap which shades my face.
 

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