D1X 10MP output comparison re-hash

[Moon]

I know it's been discussed..but I wanted to do my own comparison on Nikon Capture 3.5.1, D1X 10 MP output up against other, common interpolation algorhythms/applications.

I will say, up front, Capture is a CLEAR winner. It must be voodoo that Nikon do.

I took the following image, which was shot in NEF.



The circled part is the crop area I used for comparison. I used NC3.5.1 10MP output and saved AS tiff. I also saved AS a tiff in the original, 6MP output. I brought the 6MP tiff into Photoshop 7.0.1 and used stair, bicubic interpolation (in 4 steps) to upsize the image to 10MP. I saved this as another tiff. I re-opened the original 6MP and used Genuine Fractals Pro 2.5 to interpolate to 10MP. I also saved this as a tiff.

I cropped the same area from each of the three upsized images and made a composite (below). To my eyes, the NC3.5.1 output FAR exceeds the others. Not only is better detail and sharpness apparent, but the other two interpolations introduced some weird color shifts to the overall image. (sorry for the large file size)



I just did this for my own satisfaction, but I thought I would share for whoever is interested. Any thoughts as to why NC is so much better?
--
-mike

 

[Scott Sherman]

I know it's been discussed..but I wanted to do my own comparison on
Nikon Capture 3.5.1, D1X 10 MP output up against other, common
interpolation algorhythms/applications.

I will say, up front, Capture is a CLEAR winner. It must be voodoo
that Nikon do.

Hello Mike,

I really appreciate your sharing and the time and effort you spent to bring the comparison to us. I found this very interesting. I have been wondering if the best interpolated image is a 6 mp raw image interpolated in PS or a 6 mp image interpolated in Capture and then re-interpolated to print size in PS.

I have found a great way of interpolating and it seems not to degrade the image noticibly up to very very large print size images even to poster sized. This tip was in the book by Scott Kelby of Photoshop user magazine...

Open your picture in ps go under the image menu and chose image size. When the image size dialog box appears, make sure "resample image" is turned on. Switch the unit of measure to percent and type in 110 in horizontal and vertical to increase your image by 10%. For some reason, it will not soften or blur the image. To get to poster size it will take many passes. To make this easy, create a custom action by going under window menu and choose actions. Click the create new action button at the bottom. When the new action appears name it upsize 110% or whatever and then choose a function key to assign this action. click the record button and repeat the previous steps. when you have gone through the whole process click the stop action button then to make multiple passes, just click the function key you assigned to the action and your image will increase by 10% each time you press the button until you get close to the size you want then just bring it to the exact size.

It is similar to stair interpolation but using the percent method instead of raising the size repeatedly seems to give a better end result for some reason.

It would be interesting to see how this works in your comparison.

Thanks again for your experiment.

--
Scott Sherman

 

[Dave52127]

Moon

exactly right, the D1x full image is 10mp & when saved to 6mp you're reducing the quaility a bit, now the 10mp is different than 10mp CCD camera it's interpolated from the CCD not the way PS does it, a 10mp holds informations more than the 6mp deos, here's another sample:

this is the full image



This is 10mp crop of the yellow square notice the blue lines on the shirt.



This is 6mp crop, see the blue lines? gone, where would anyother software get'em from?



if you can't see clearly, please copy those images to your HD & zoom in more you'll see so much details were gone with 6mp

Dave

I know it's been discussed..but I wanted to do my own comparison on
Nikon Capture 3.5.1, D1X 10 MP output up against other, common
interpolation algorhythms/applications.

I will say, up front, Capture is a CLEAR winner. It must be voodoo
that Nikon do.

I took the following image, which was shot in NEF.



The circled part is the crop area I used for comparison. I used
NC3.5.1 10MP output and saved AS tiff. I also saved AS a tiff in
the original, 6MP output. I brought the 6MP tiff into Photoshop
7.0.1 and used stair, bicubic interpolation (in 4 steps) to upsize
the image to 10MP. I saved this as another tiff. I re-opened the
original 6MP and used Genuine Fractals Pro 2.5 to interpolate to
10MP. I also saved this as a tiff.

I cropped the same area from each of the three upsized images and
made a composite (below). To my eyes, the NC3.5.1 output FAR
exceeds the others. Not only is better detail and sharpness
apparent, but the other two interpolations introduced some weird
color shifts to the overall image. (sorry for the large file size)



I just did this for my own satisfaction, but I thought I would
share for whoever is interested. Any thoughts as to why NC is so
much better?
--
-mike

 

[Moon]

you've piqued my interest. I will try this tomorrow. I used a factor of 4 for my stair interpolation. Was there something magical about 10%. Will going in even smaller steps improve quality?

Thanks!

I know it's been discussed..but I wanted to do my own comparison on
Nikon Capture 3.5.1, D1X 10 MP output up against other, common
interpolation algorhythms/applications.

I will say, up front, Capture is a CLEAR winner. It must be voodoo
that Nikon do.

Hello Mike,

I really appreciate your sharing and the time and effort you spent
to bring the comparison to us. I found this very interesting. I
have been wondering if the best interpolated image is a 6 mp raw
image interpolated in PS or a 6 mp image interpolated in Capture
and then re-interpolated to print size in PS.

I have found a great way of interpolating and it seems not to
degrade the image noticibly up to very very large print size images
even to poster sized. This tip was in the book by Scott Kelby of
Photoshop user magazine...

Open your picture in ps go under the image menu and chose image
size. When the image size dialog box appears, make sure "resample
image" is turned on. Switch the unit of measure to percent and
type in 110 in horizontal and vertical to increase your image by
10%. For some reason, it will not soften or blur the image. To
get to poster size it will take many passes. To make this easy,
create a custom action by going under window menu and choose
actions. Click the create new action button at the bottom. When
the new action appears name it upsize 110% or whatever and then
choose a function key to assign this action. click the record
button and repeat the previous steps. when you have gone through
the whole process click the stop action button then to make
multiple passes, just click the function key you assigned to the
action and your image will increase by 10% each time you press the
button until you get close to the size you want then just bring it
to the exact size.

It is similar to stair interpolation but using the percent method
instead of raising the size repeatedly seems to give a better end
result for some reason.

It would be interesting to see how this works in your comparison.

Thanks again for your experiment.

--
Scott Sherman

--
-mike

 

[Moon]

Wow! Your example is is a better illustration than mine. That sheds even more light on it for me. Is it possible that NC3 only has to interpolate 1/2 or fewer pixels than other apps trying to interpolate from 6mp?

this is the full image



This is 10mp crop of the yellow square notice the blue lines on the
shirt.



This is 6mp crop, see the blue lines? gone, where would anyother
software get'em from?



if you can't see clearly, please copy those images to your HD &
zoom in more you'll see so much details were gone with 6mp

Dave

I know it's been discussed..but I wanted to do my own comparison on
Nikon Capture 3.5.1, D1X 10 MP output up against other, common
interpolation algorhythms/applications.

I will say, up front, Capture is a CLEAR winner. It must be voodoo
that Nikon do.

I took the following image, which was shot in NEF.



The circled part is the crop area I used for comparison. I used
NC3.5.1 10MP output and saved AS tiff. I also saved AS a tiff in
the original, 6MP output. I brought the 6MP tiff into Photoshop
7.0.1 and used stair, bicubic interpolation (in 4 steps) to upsize
the image to 10MP. I saved this as another tiff. I re-opened the
original 6MP and used Genuine Fractals Pro 2.5 to interpolate to
10MP. I also saved this as a tiff.

I cropped the same area from each of the three upsized images and
made a composite (below). To my eyes, the NC3.5.1 output FAR
exceeds the others. Not only is better detail and sharpness
apparent, but the other two interpolations introduced some weird
color shifts to the overall image. (sorry for the large file size)



I just did this for my own satisfaction, but I thought I would
share for whoever is interested. Any thoughts as to why NC is so
much better?
--
-mike

--

--
-mike

 

[Joe Hoddinott]

This thread has peaked my interest! The group shot pushed me over the edge. Over the next day or so I'm going to try the D1x 10.3MP test.

I used to output 10.3MP files from Bibble all the time, but the rez was just not needed, so I stopped, and used 5.9MP. This was long before Capture could output the 10MP file.

Now I'm very curious. I'd like to do a comparrison between PS, GF, Bibble, and Capture. When I get the time to do so will be another question.

--
Regards,
Joe H.

PPA
---------------------------------------
http://www.biggerboatstudios.com

(Sarcasm Included - some assembly required.)

 

[Moon]

That would be cool if you did. I don't have bibble, so I am really interested in the results you get. I am also going to try the small percentage step interpolation in PS. But, as dave illustrated, PS (or anything else) can't interpolate what it can't 'see'.

This thread has peaked my interest! The group shot pushed me over
the edge. Over the next day or so I'm going to try the D1x 10.3MP
test.

I used to output 10.3MP files from Bibble all the time, but the rez
was just not needed, so I stopped, and used 5.9MP. This was long
before Capture could output the 10MP file.

Now I'm very curious. I'd like to do a comparrison between PS, GF,
Bibble, and Capture. When I get the time to do so will be another
question.

--
Regards,
Joe H.

PPA
---------------------------------------
http://www.biggerboatstudios.com

(Sarcasm Included - some assembly required.)

--
-mike

 

[Dave52127]

Moon

You have to forget about PS & the rest to go from 6 to 10mp. PS is one of the best for interpolation but doesn't read the CCD capture, it only gives the best out of 6mp to 10mp.

Capture & Bibble reads the original data captured from the D1x's CCD & rearrange it to give you 10mp, the thing is D1x is 4000x1312pm from those ones giving either 4000(original pixels)x2600 or 3000(4000reduced)x1960px

Trust me, Capture & Bibble aren't going from 6 to 10mp, they are getting the best reading of the CCD & make 10mp instead of 6

Dave

this is the full image



This is 10mp crop of the yellow square notice the blue lines on the
shirt.



This is 6mp crop, see the blue lines? gone, where would anyother
software get'em from?



if you can't see clearly, please copy those images to your HD &
zoom in more you'll see so much details were gone with 6mp

Dave

I know it's been discussed..but I wanted to do my own comparison on
Nikon Capture 3.5.1, D1X 10 MP output up against other, common
interpolation algorhythms/applications.

I will say, up front, Capture is a CLEAR winner. It must be voodoo
that Nikon do.

I took the following image, which was shot in NEF.



The circled part is the crop area I used for comparison. I used
NC3.5.1 10MP output and saved AS tiff. I also saved AS a tiff in
the original, 6MP output. I brought the 6MP tiff into Photoshop
7.0.1 and used stair, bicubic interpolation (in 4 steps) to upsize
the image to 10MP. I saved this as another tiff. I re-opened the
original 6MP and used Genuine Fractals Pro 2.5 to interpolate to
10MP. I also saved this as a tiff.

I cropped the same area from each of the three upsized images and
made a composite (below). To my eyes, the NC3.5.1 output FAR
exceeds the others. Not only is better detail and sharpness
apparent, but the other two interpolations introduced some weird
color shifts to the overall image. (sorry for the large file size)



I just did this for my own satisfaction, but I thought I would
share for whoever is interested. Any thoughts as to why NC is so
much better?
--
-mike

--

--
-mike

 

[Moon]

do you find one to be better than the other (bibble vs. NC) for 10MP output?

Thanks

Trust me, Capture & Bibble aren't going from 6 to 10mp, they are
getting the best reading of the CCD & make 10mp instead of 6

Dave

this is the full image



This is 10mp crop of the yellow square notice the blue lines on the
shirt.



This is 6mp crop, see the blue lines? gone, where would anyother
software get'em from?



if you can't see clearly, please copy those images to your HD &
zoom in more you'll see so much details were gone with 6mp

Dave

I know it's been discussed..but I wanted to do my own comparison on
Nikon Capture 3.5.1, D1X 10 MP output up against other, common
interpolation algorhythms/applications.

I will say, up front, Capture is a CLEAR winner. It must be voodoo
that Nikon do.

I took the following image, which was shot in NEF.



The circled part is the crop area I used for comparison. I used
NC3.5.1 10MP output and saved AS tiff. I also saved AS a tiff in
the original, 6MP output. I brought the 6MP tiff into Photoshop
7.0.1 and used stair, bicubic interpolation (in 4 steps) to upsize
the image to 10MP. I saved this as another tiff. I re-opened the
original 6MP and used Genuine Fractals Pro 2.5 to interpolate to
10MP. I also saved this as a tiff.

I cropped the same area from each of the three upsized images and
made a composite (below). To my eyes, the NC3.5.1 output FAR
exceeds the others. Not only is better detail and sharpness
apparent, but the other two interpolations introduced some weird
color shifts to the overall image. (sorry for the large file size)



I just did this for my own satisfaction, but I thought I would
share for whoever is interested. Any thoughts as to why NC is so
much better?
--
-mike

--

--
-mike

--

--
-mike

 

[Dave52127]

Look why don't you copy those croped images to your HD, use any software you like, any interpolation you wish, & see if you can get those vertical blue line back, THEY ARE NOT there with 6mp

Dave

Trust me, Capture & Bibble aren't going from 6 to 10mp, they are
getting the best reading of the CCD & make 10mp instead of 6

Dave

this is the full image



This is 10mp crop of the yellow square notice the blue lines on the
shirt.



This is 6mp crop, see the blue lines? gone, where would anyother
software get'em from?



if you can't see clearly, please copy those images to your HD &
zoom in more you'll see so much details were gone with 6mp

Dave

I know it's been discussed..but I wanted to do my own comparison on
Nikon Capture 3.5.1, D1X 10 MP output up against other, common
interpolation algorhythms/applications.

I will say, up front, Capture is a CLEAR winner. It must be voodoo
that Nikon do.

I took the following image, which was shot in NEF.



The circled part is the crop area I used for comparison. I used
NC3.5.1 10MP output and saved AS tiff. I also saved AS a tiff in
the original, 6MP output. I brought the 6MP tiff into Photoshop
7.0.1 and used stair, bicubic interpolation (in 4 steps) to upsize
the image to 10MP. I saved this as another tiff. I re-opened the
original 6MP and used Genuine Fractals Pro 2.5 to interpolate to
10MP. I also saved this as a tiff.

I cropped the same area from each of the three upsized images and
made a composite (below). To my eyes, the NC3.5.1 output FAR
exceeds the others. Not only is better detail and sharpness
apparent, but the other two interpolations introduced some weird
color shifts to the overall image. (sorry for the large file size)



I just did this for my own satisfaction, but I thought I would
share for whoever is interested. Any thoughts as to why NC is so
much better?
--
-mike

--

--
-mike

--

 

[Dave52127]

I've tested both, they both read & view the blue lines in 10mp but bibble is crashing sometimes & not as smooth as NC, but bibble does adjust WB with JPG & does have saturation to add to the images if needed & that's what NC is missing in my oppinion, but the output in NC is slightly better than bibble, with contrasy areas, sometimes I see like a dipersion effect with black & wihte edges, it looks like if the colors weren't sitting on top of each other properly, & that's an expression I'm using, & hardly noticable, & it doesn't show all the times, mainly on one pixel black hair on a white b/g.

don't forget Nikon made the camera & made the sofware for it, they know what they want to achieve, & before when capture use to cost $500, bibble was the only option, & thanks to bibble that pushed nikon to drop their price to arround $150 us, the difference is little,

don't take me wrong I'm trying to convience myself with bibble for the WB & jpg's & the saturation issue, but every time I try it I get the feeling to stick with capture for the smoothness.

Dave

Thanks

Trust me, Capture & Bibble aren't going from 6 to 10mp, they are
getting the best reading of the CCD & make 10mp instead of 6

Dave

this is the full image



This is 10mp crop of the yellow square notice the blue lines on the
shirt.



This is 6mp crop, see the blue lines? gone, where would anyother
software get'em from?



if you can't see clearly, please copy those images to your HD &
zoom in more you'll see so much details were gone with 6mp

Dave

I know it's been discussed..but I wanted to do my own comparison on
Nikon Capture 3.5.1, D1X 10 MP output up against other, common
interpolation algorhythms/applications.

I will say, up front, Capture is a CLEAR winner. It must be voodoo
that Nikon do.

I took the following image, which was shot in NEF.



The circled part is the crop area I used for comparison. I used
NC3.5.1 10MP output and saved AS tiff. I also saved AS a tiff in
the original, 6MP output. I brought the 6MP tiff into Photoshop
7.0.1 and used stair, bicubic interpolation (in 4 steps) to upsize
the image to 10MP. I saved this as another tiff. I re-opened the
original 6MP and used Genuine Fractals Pro 2.5 to interpolate to
10MP. I also saved this as a tiff.

I cropped the same area from each of the three upsized images and
made a composite (below). To my eyes, the NC3.5.1 output FAR
exceeds the others. Not only is better detail and sharpness
apparent, but the other two interpolations introduced some weird
color shifts to the overall image. (sorry for the large file size)



I just did this for my own satisfaction, but I thought I would
share for whoever is interested. Any thoughts as to why NC is so
much better?
--
-mike

--

--
-mike

--

--
-mike

 

[kaz911]

Well - seems like we have a competition going here

The contenders should be

Nikon Caputure
Adobe Photoshop Raw plugin (free trial NOT available)
Adobe "tools"
Bibble (free trial available)
Phase One - Capture One DSLR (free trial available)
QImage (free trail available)

did I forget any?

Then compare with other > = 10mpix cams.. ;-)

Competition suggested rules :

1. Take ONE RAW file - of subject with lot of details/colors etc. (share the raw file with the forum..)

2.Import in "tool" - save with default "tool" settings (10 mpix) (the objective test) in 16 bit tiff

3. Save "optimized" (after adjusting WB etc) - (the subjective test) in 16 bit tiff

best

Kasper

That would be cool if you did. I don't have bibble, so I am really
interested in the results you get. I am also going to try the small
percentage step interpolation in PS. But, as dave illustrated, PS
(or anything else) can't interpolate what it can't 'see'.

 

[Joe Hoddinott]

Kasper,

You are right - I forgot about Qimage.

Someone send me a Canon 1Ds and a Kodak 14n and I'll get to work! ;-)

--
Regards,
Joe H.

PPA
---------------------------------------
http://www.biggerboatstudios.com

(Sarcasm Included - some assembly required.)

 

[Dave52127]

I can't comment about Macbibble could be better I don't know.
Dave

don't take me wrong I'm trying to convience myself with bibble for
the WB & jpg's & the saturation issue, but every time I try it I
get the feeling to stick with capture for the smoothness.

Dave

Thanks

Trust me, Capture & Bibble aren't going from 6 to 10mp, they are
getting the best reading of the CCD & make 10mp instead of 6

Dave

this is the full image



This is 10mp crop of the yellow square notice the blue lines on the
shirt.



This is 6mp crop, see the blue lines? gone, where would anyother
software get'em from?



if you can't see clearly, please copy those images to your HD &
zoom in more you'll see so much details were gone with 6mp

Dave

I know it's been discussed..but I wanted to do my own comparison on
Nikon Capture 3.5.1, D1X 10 MP output up against other, common
interpolation algorhythms/applications.

I will say, up front, Capture is a CLEAR winner. It must be voodoo
that Nikon do.

I took the following image, which was shot in NEF.



The circled part is the crop area I used for comparison. I used
NC3.5.1 10MP output and saved AS tiff. I also saved AS a tiff in
the original, 6MP output. I brought the 6MP tiff into Photoshop
7.0.1 and used stair, bicubic interpolation (in 4 steps) to upsize
the image to 10MP. I saved this as another tiff. I re-opened the
original 6MP and used Genuine Fractals Pro 2.5 to interpolate to
10MP. I also saved this as a tiff.

I cropped the same area from each of the three upsized images and
made a composite (below). To my eyes, the NC3.5.1 output FAR
exceeds the others. Not only is better detail and sharpness
apparent, but the other two interpolations introduced some weird
color shifts to the overall image. (sorry for the large file size)



I just did this for my own satisfaction, but I thought I would
share for whoever is interested. Any thoughts as to why NC is so
much better?
--
-mike

--

--
-mike

--

--
-mike

--

 

[Leon Obers]

I know it's been discussed..but I wanted to do my own comparison on
Nikon Capture 3.5.1, D1X 10 MP output up against other, common
interpolation algorhythms/applications.

I will say, up front, Capture is a CLEAR winner. It must be voodoo
that Nikon do.

Try the Phase One Capture software 30 days trial.

It gives much better anti-aliased pleasing results. Only the color rendition I have to make soem more experiance, because it do give other color result.

--
Leon Obers

 

[Hendrik van der Veen]

Please also include Fred Miranda's stair interpolation, that's the action I use now. (www.fredmiranda.com)

-Hendrik-

The contenders should be

Nikon Caputure
Adobe Photoshop Raw plugin (free trial NOT available)
Adobe "tools"
Bibble (free trial available)
Phase One - Capture One DSLR (free trial available)
QImage (free trail available)

did I forget any?

Then compare with other > = 10mpix cams.. ;-)

Competition suggested rules :

1. Take ONE RAW file - of subject with lot of details/colors etc.
(share the raw file with the forum..)
2.Import in "tool" - save with default "tool" settings (10 mpix)
(the objective test) in 16 bit tiff
3. Save "optimized" (after adjusting WB etc) - (the subjective
test) in 16 bit tiff

best

Kasper

That would be cool if you did. I don't have bibble, so I am really
interested in the results you get. I am also going to try the small
percentage step interpolation in PS. But, as dave illustrated, PS
(or anything else) can't interpolate what it can't 'see'.

 

[Nikon Dave]

Last I had heard they had not done the Nikon stuff yet, just Canon. Have you heard anything new?

Dave

I know it's been discussed..but I wanted to do my own comparison on
Nikon Capture 3.5.1, D1X 10 MP output up against other, common
interpolation algorhythms/applications.

I will say, up front, Capture is a CLEAR winner. It must be voodoo
that Nikon do.

Try the Phase One Capture software 30 days trial.
It gives much better anti-aliased pleasing results. Only the color
rendition I have to make soem more experiance, because it do give
other color result.

--
Leon Obers

--
David Colt
http://www.davidcolt.com

 

[Leon Obers]

Last I had heard they had not done the Nikon stuff yet, just Canon.
Have you heard anything new?

The latest version on their website is alreaday for Nikon D100 as well D1x (at least the Windows version) I did already some experiance using the NEF files out of the D1X. (That's why my previous answer is like it is).
Downloadpage:
http://www.phaseone.com/en/Downloads/CaptureOneDSLRMAC.htm

--
Leon Obers

 

[Moon]

I have it too, but for this test, it needs to be done by hand. Fred has certain presets for his action that may not allow us to EXACTLY duplicate the horizontal and vertical resolution. For this type of test, it is important.

-Hendrik-

The contenders should be

Nikon Caputure
Adobe Photoshop Raw plugin (free trial NOT available)
Adobe "tools"
Bibble (free trial available)
Phase One - Capture One DSLR (free trial available)
QImage (free trail available)

did I forget any?

Then compare with other > = 10mpix cams.. ;-)

Competition suggested rules :

1. Take ONE RAW file - of subject with lot of details/colors etc.
(share the raw file with the forum..)
2.Import in "tool" - save with default "tool" settings (10 mpix)
(the objective test) in 16 bit tiff
3. Save "optimized" (after adjusting WB etc) - (the subjective
test) in 16 bit tiff

best

Kasper

That would be cool if you did. I don't have bibble, so I am really
interested in the results you get. I am also going to try the small
percentage step interpolation in PS. But, as dave illustrated, PS
(or anything else) can't interpolate what it can't 'see'.

--
-mike

 

[Moon]

Does Capture One have an option to 'res' D1X images to 10MP?

Last I had heard they had not done the Nikon stuff yet, just Canon.
Have you heard anything new?

The latest version on their website is alreaday for Nikon D100 as
well D1x (at least the Windows version) I did already some
experiance using the NEF files out of the D1X. (That's why my
previous answer is like it is).
Downloadpage:
http://www.phaseone.com/en/Downloads/CaptureOneDSLRMAC.htm

--
Leon Obers

--
-mike