a1ii with LED flicker?

[MediaArchivist]

I a currently using an a7Rv for concert photography, my previous camera was an a99ii (and an a99 and a77 prior to that). I am taking full advantage of all of the a7Rv features to mitigate the effects of stage light flicker (LED lights currently the de rigueur everywhere). Despite the quite noticeable improvements (bravo to Sony), I still get results like this sometimes:

Note the obvious banding through the middle of the singer's head.

The master solution to this (of course) is a global shutter like the a9iii, but I don't want to regress that far in resolution. I really like 60+ Mp.

50Mp on the a1ii is sufficient for my wants and needs. My question is, will all of the speed enhancements of the a1ii (compared to a7Rv) help with this type of banding? I know it won't completely eliminate banding all the time, but will it be "better"?

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[Hotel Lonely]

I a currently using an a7Rv for concert photography, my previous camera was an a99ii (and an a99 and a77 prior to that). I am taking full advantage of all of the a7Rv features to mitigate the effects of stage light flicker (LED lights currently the de rigueur everywhere). Despite the quite noticeable improvements (bravo to Sony), I still get results like this sometimes:

Note the obvious banding through the middle of the singer's head.

The master solution to this (of course) is a global shutter like the a9iii, but I don't want to regress that far in resolution. I really like 60+ Mp.

50Mp on the a1ii is sufficient for my wants and needs. My question is, will all of the speed enhancements of the a1ii (compared to a7Rv) help with this type of banding? I know it won't completely eliminate banding all the time, but will it be "better"?

LED flicker is a PITA for every kind of shutter. Even the global shutter. There's literally nothing you can do about it to prevent it fully. As long as your shutter speed is high enough.

Especially on those colour or dual-tone (warm/cool) LED lights, they are a terrible thing to work with.

Fun fact, even the A9iii can be bullied by the PWM colour LEDs because some of them just have a terrible light pattern.

For the one that you're seeing there:

what happened is that when the back curtain is moving near the end, the lighting got brighter during this fraction of time. it's not a gradual change in your case, usually most of the 50hz/60hz change is quite gradual. The reason that it's not gradual is because that the LED can change its brightness VERY FAST and very responsive. The lights can be swtiched on off for more than 1000 times per second. With this kind of speed there's literally nothing you can do with conventional rolling shutter.

Now, here comes the funny part: most LEDs, especially cheap ones, they use a multiplex design that one controller controls multiple channels of LEDs. Meaning that if you have a global shutter camera like A9iii, you might see something like 4 or 8 led bulbs might be having a different brightness from each other. This is because that the controller lights them up by in turn and in loop. Because they act fast enough so that usually people wouldn't notice it. However your A9iii would.

In short, LEDs are weird, and tricky to deal with.

 

[Puppy2007]

The only 100 percent safe camera is Sony A9 III, because of the global shutter sensor.

The stacked sensor of A1 has fast readout, but still not that fast enough to always mitigate the LED lights banding, even when you use the mechanical shutter, of course.

I use A7C for concert pictures that doesn't have a stacked sensor and fortunately I am experiencing the banding issue in a few selected venues only. I rented A1 lately and I got it on a few shots too. Sometimes you can mitigate it by a different shutter speed.

I wouldn't expect any difference regarding it with the A1 II, as it is use the same sensor. The data readout speed is the important parameter and currently all the stacked sensors hit the limit of the technology.

The PWM dimming frequency is solely on the light manufacturer and the mix of different lights is tricky.

 

[MediaArchivist]

My experience with the a1ii electronic shutter has led me to believe I can use it in almost any situation. There is one venue I frequent that has a mixture of LED lights that flicker at different rates. With the electronic shutter on the a1ii, I get some banding in some shots. It is better than the mechanical shutter of the a7Rv, and the lights are evil enough that I still get some banding even with the EFC on the a1ii.

In every other venue I have been to, the electronic shutter used in concert with all the anti-flicker features on the a1ii works perfectly.

 

[Interceptor121]

My experience with the a1ii electronic shutter has led me to believe I can use it in almost any situation. There is one venue I frequent that has a mixture of LED lights that flicker at different rates. With the electronic shutter on the a1ii, I get some banding in some shots. It is better than the mechanical shutter of the a7Rv, and the lights are evil enough that I still get some banding even with the EFC on the a1ii.

In every other venue I have been to, the electronic shutter used in concert with all the anti-flicker features on the a1ii works perfectly.

This is by far the best article on the subject although a full set of tests should be run with each camera

Mechanical vs Electronic Shutter vs EFCS

Many cameras today let you choose between a mechanical shutter, electronic shutter, or EFCS. Picking the wrong one can harm your photos and image quality.

photographylife.com

He uses a plain background so you can clearly see the banding in a real scene it would be less apparent

The readout rate of the A1 is great for nature shots but for artificial lights efcs is the default that sony themselves recommend

At some really high shutter speeds even the efcs will show banding and mechanical shutter will be better

in essence having a choice shoot mechanical shutter under mixed lights unless you have global shutter

I have shot events with some really nasty purple led and I had issues with my A1 even with efcs

I dont own any emount camera with a full mechanical shutter but i dont do many of those events with weird lights or I would have considered the A7 IV

my panasonic with full mechanical shutter and 1/60 readout never gave me issues except being able to meter correctly due pulsing lights when those are the only source and your speed is high

 

[MediaArchivist]

Thanks for posting a link to a page with lots of info that is irrelevant for the subject of this thread. Did you read it? Did you see this part:

all of these recommendations change when you are using a camera with a stacked sensor

Your post count increased by one, plus another for your inevitable retort. Well played.

 

[Puppy2007]

There is no difference between the EFCS and full mechanical shutter regarding to the banding presence. With the full mechanical shutter it has just a slightly less sharp edges, but both make the picture useless. Sensor readout speed is the important parameter.