Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

Started Jun 25, 2001 | Discussions
Peter Lindsey Forum Member • Posts: 58
Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

After having problems with horizontal banding using the 28-80 cheapo lens, I reported my findings to Canon Inc. here in Japan.

See this thread:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=000763

I spoke with a Canon representative today, who confirmed that after my report they tested various lenses, and have found that some USM models cause noise at ISO 400 or higher. The noise being more pronounced at higher ISO. Sometimes it is barely noticeable at 400, but more so on darker patches.

Here are the ones I am aware of..

28-80 USM 3.5-5.6
50mm 1.4 USM
75-300 IS USM.

The noise may or not appear depending on shooting conditions, but the cause (according to Canon) appears to be that the USM motor is in action whilst the picture data is being recorded.

Canon were unable to suggest a fix, other than avoiding AI focus mode or continuous shooting mode if those modes give rise to the noise with your lens.

The technical representative promised me that he would be in touch as Canon found more or were able to propose a solution.

Great being on the bleeding edge, isn't it? I hope this problem doesn't delay release of our Digital 1v :eek:

this post is duplicated at robgalbraith.com

jim c New Member • Posts: 15
Re: Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

Peter Lindsey wrote:

Here are the ones I am aware of..

28-80 USM 3.5-5.6
50mm 1.4 USM
75-300 IS USM.

From my experience, you can add to that list:
28-135mm IS USM
75-300mm USM III

I've gotten the banding(not nearly as severe as some examples I've seen posted) with both lenses in "Continuous" mode.

RichW Forum Pro • Posts: 12,837
Re: Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

Interesting. Sounds like it is time for another firmware upgrade.

Rich

jim c wrote:

Peter Lindsey wrote:

Here are the ones I am aware of..

28-80 USM 3.5-5.6
50mm 1.4 USM
75-300 IS USM.

From my experience, you can add to that list:
28-135mm IS USM
75-300mm USM III
I've gotten the banding(not nearly as severe as some examples I've
seen posted) with both lenses in "Continuous" mode.

 RichW's gear list:RichW's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM Canon EF 20mm f/2.8 USM Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM +4 more
Andy M
Andy M Regular Member • Posts: 388
Re: Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

If it's the field from the focus motors then it's a physical problem. Either the camera or lens needs better shielding.

Be nice if one day it was economically and technically possible to put CCD/CMOS sensors in the lens. Interchangeable lenses with no dust issues (not that I have had any yet) and the possibility of upgrading your camera's sensor by buying a new lens.

Andy.

RichW wrote:
Interesting. Sounds like it is time for another firmware upgrade.

Rich

jim c wrote:

Peter Lindsey wrote:

Here are the ones I am aware of..

28-80 USM 3.5-5.6
50mm 1.4 USM
75-300 IS USM.

From my experience, you can add to that list:
28-135mm IS USM
75-300mm USM III
I've gotten the banding(not nearly as severe as some examples I've
seen posted) with both lenses in "Continuous" mode.

 Andy M's gear list:Andy M's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX8 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Olympus E-M1 II Panasonic GH5 Sony a7R III
Baumann Reto Forum Member • Posts: 75
Re: Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

Ups... I really want to buy a D30, but my primary lens is exactly the 28-135mm IS USM... How bad is the banding Noise? Can somebody post a picture where you can see it?

Thanks
Reto

jim c wrote:

Peter Lindsey wrote:

Here are the ones I am aware of..

28-80 USM 3.5-5.6
50mm 1.4 USM
75-300 IS USM.

From my experience, you can add to that list:
28-135mm IS USM
75-300mm USM III
I've gotten the banding(not nearly as severe as some examples I've
seen posted) with both lenses in "Continuous" mode.

Roine Karlsson Contributing Member • Posts: 524
Re: Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

Hello

I can´t se any banding.

I have several pictures at http://home.swipnet.se/roines/
using the 28-135 IS, can´t see anything. You may se if You can se something.

Roine

Baumann Reto wrote:
Ups... I really want to buy a D30, but my primary lens is exactly
the 28-135mm IS USM... How bad is the banding Noise? Can somebody
post a picture where you can see it?

Thanks
Reto

jim c wrote:

Peter Lindsey wrote:

Here are the ones I am aware of..

28-80 USM 3.5-5.6
50mm 1.4 USM
75-300 IS USM.

From my experience, you can add to that list:
28-135mm IS USM
75-300mm USM III
I've gotten the banding(not nearly as severe as some examples I've
seen posted) with both lenses in "Continuous" mode.

Baumann Reto Forum Member • Posts: 75
Re: Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

Did you shoot in Continous mode?

Roine Karlsson wrote:

Hello

I can´t se any banding.

I have several pictures at http://home.swipnet.se/roines/
using the 28-135 IS, can´t see anything. You may se if You can se
something.

Roine

jcwphoto Contributing Member • Posts: 692
Re: Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

That's a very interesting idea. Technically possible - probably. Economically possible - we'll have to wait a while.

This idea would in essence make each lens almost a digital camera in and of itself, or rather, a MUCH more integral part of it. But I can imagine problems with different lenses acting differently because of slight variances in the CMOS/CCD being used.

What I'd like to see is a monster of a digital SLR, with a rotating front palette of different lenses mounted (kind of like a microscope's different magnification pieces), and you'd be able to carry all your lenses and just switch them on the fly as you shoot by rotating the palette.

Andy Miles wrote:

Be nice if one day it was economically and technically possible to
put CCD/CMOS sensors in the lens. Interchangeable lenses with no
dust issues (not that I have had any yet) and the possibility of
upgrading your camera's sensor by buying a new lens.

Scott Larson Forum Member • Posts: 71
Re: Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

Roine Karlsson wrote:

I have several pictures at http://home.swipnet.se/roines/
using the 28-135 IS, can´t see anything. You may se if You can se
something.

I have taken hundreds of pictures with the 28mm-135mm IS at ISO 1600 in continous mode with AF-Servo and haven't seen one case of banding. Perhaps it's only with older lenses.

Hutch Regular Member • Posts: 297
Re: Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

I have taken thousands of shots with both the 75-300mm USM IS and 28-135mm USM IS and have never noticed the problem described. Nearly all of the Rodeo shots on my web site at http://www.DigitalDayDreaming.com were taken with the 75-300 IS USM, AI Servo, Burst Mode.

Baumann Reto wrote:
Did you shoot in Continous mode?

Roine Karlsson wrote:

Hello

I can´t se any banding.

I have several pictures at http://home.swipnet.se/roines/
using the 28-135 IS, can´t see anything. You may se if You can se
something.

Roine

 Hutch's gear list:Hutch's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS 7D Mark II Olympus E-M1 Canon EF 100-400mm F4.5-5.6L IS II Canon EF 16-35mm F2.8L II USM +8 more
Roine Karlsson Contributing Member • Posts: 524
Re: Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

Hello

Not what i can recall. Not sure.

Roine

Baumann Reto wrote:
Did you shoot in Continous mode?

Roine Karlsson wrote:

Hello

I can´t se any banding.

I have several pictures at http://home.swipnet.se/roines/
using the 28-135 IS, can´t see anything. You may se if You can se
something.

Roine

OP Peter Lindsey Forum Member • Posts: 58
Re: Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

For those of you who have not seen the banding.. try this simple test.

Take 4 shots of a scene containing dark areas at 1600 ISO. Make sure the focus point is somewhere closer than infinity.

continuous-frame AI servo focus
continuous-frame one-shot focus
single-frame AI servo focus
single-frame one-shot focus

Then open them in photoshop and view at 100% magnification. If you are not sure, try increasing the contrast. If you still can't see anything, great!

Most people have not even noticed this problem. Some lenses are inherently worse than others, even new models exhibit the problem (including my brand-new 75-300 IS) but for many it is so faint as not to be noticeable. Some lenses produce horrible noise, but it would appear that for the newer models this is very rare.

Potential buyers of the 28-135 of 75-300IS should not worry unduly. Test in the store if unsure!

For those of us unlucky enough to have experienced the problem, there is little to do but avoid continuous shooting mode or high ISO with the offending lens.

RichW Forum Pro • Posts: 12,837
Re: Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

I didn't see a smiley face after you said that and almost think you are serious! Half a dozen or more lenses on the front of your camera and you rotate them into position!!!! Can you imagine the size of that baby.....and you think it would be a big seller!!! Are you going to hang it around your neck or just dangle it from your wrist??? Wow!

Rich

What I'd like to see is a monster of a digital SLR, with a rotating
front palette of different lenses mounted (kind of like a
microscope's different magnification pieces), and you'd be able to
carry all your lenses and just switch them on the fly as you shoot
by rotating the palette.

 RichW's gear list:RichW's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM Canon EF 20mm f/2.8 USM Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM +4 more
Mike Price Regular Member • Posts: 450
Re: Banding Noise - Canon's Response.

It only happens if you are focusing while the camera is writing to the disk.

In my case it has only happened using a brand new 50mm f1.4 and a S/H 85mm f1.8. (but I wouldn't be using 800/1600ISO with any slower lenses!)

Scott Larson wrote:

I have taken hundreds of pictures with the 28mm-135mm IS at ISO
1600 in continous mode with AF-Servo and haven't seen one case of
banding. Perhaps it's only with older lenses.

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