G1 nodal point

Started Jun 6, 2001 | Discussions
aeropic Contributing Member • Posts: 589
G1 nodal point

To generate proper panorama, it's best to rotate around the nodal point so that to points at different depths keep aligned during rotation.

Has anybody measured the distance of the focal point for the G1 at different focal lenghts ?

thank you
Alain

joe filer Senior Member • Posts: 2,934
Re: G1 nodal point

alain wrote:

To generate proper panorama, it's best to rotate around the nodal
point so that to points at different depths keep aligned during
rotation.

Has anybody measured the distance of the focal point for the G1 at
different focal lenghts ?

thank you
Alain

I haven't tried it with my G1 yet, but it should be easy enough to do.
Several years ago, I tested my 35mm SLR in the following manner:

(I didn't keep a record, because I felt that it was very easy to do each time an appropriate focal length was selected for a panorama.)

I have a tripod where the center post which can be turned horizontally and adjusted back and forth. I used this offset tripod head to pan my camera with the FRONT of the front of the lens approximately over the panning axis. With minor experimentation, I moved the camera backwards and forwards, until the relative position of near and far objects in the viewfinder didn't change as I panned the camera. This seemed to work very well to help make better panoramic composites of film prints. Would expect that it would work equally well with the G1. Compared to film, the digital stitching technology makes the panorama construction a breeze

 joe filer's gear list:joe filer's gear list
Canon PowerShot G3 Canon EOS 20D Canon EOS 7D Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 +5 more
WH Yi Contributing Member • Posts: 995
Re: G1 nodal point

digitalkamera.de has a chart of nodal points; however, the G1 is not listed. Once one of us determines the G1 nodal points, they can be submited. http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Workshop/panorama/NodalPoint3-en.asp

digitalkamera.de's guide to finding your digicam's nodal point(s) is here: http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Workshop/panorama/NodalPoint2-en.htm

panoguide.com's guides to finding and testing found nodal points:
http://www.panoguide.com/technique/setup_panohead.html
http://www.panoguide.com/technique/lamppost_test.html

What bugs me about finding nodal points for the G1's zoom lens is that there's no numerical indicator of zoom length while shooting, so we have to nodal for either of the 2 known zoom values of extreme wide or extreme tele.

alain wrote:

To generate proper panorama, it's best to rotate around the nodal
point so that to points at different depths keep aligned during
rotation.

Has anybody measured the distance of the focal point for the G1 at
different focal lenghts ?

thank you
Alain

OP aeropic Contributing Member • Posts: 589
Re: G1 nodal point

JoeFiler wrote:

alain wrote:

To generate proper panorama, it's best to rotate around the nodal
point so that to points at different depths keep aligned during
rotation.

Has anybody measured the distance of the focal point for the G1 at
different focal lenghts ?

thank you
Alain

I haven't tried it with my G1 yet, but it should be easy enough to do.
Several years ago, I tested my 35mm SLR in the following manner:
(I didn't keep a record, because I felt that it was very easy to do
each time an appropriate focal length was selected for a panorama.)
I have a tripod where the center post which can be turned
horizontally and adjusted back and forth. I used this offset
tripod head to pan my camera with the FRONT of the front of the
lens approximately over the panning axis. With minor
experimentation, I moved the camera backwards and forwards, until
the relative position of near and far objects in the viewfinder
didn't change as I panned the camera. This seemed to work very
well to help make better panoramic composites of film prints.
Would expect that it would work equally well with the G1. Compared
to film, the digital stitching technology makes the panorama
construction a breeze

You are right, the method you used is the good one. But I was wondering if anybody had already measured and tested the G1, just to avoid to do the tests ...since my tripod head don't allow to align properly in two axis and this stupid screw under the G1 is not centered

That's why I need to cut a piece of wood or lastic to act as an interface between the G1 and the tripop ...

regards
Alain

OP aeropic Contributing Member • Posts: 589
Re: G1 nodal point

Thanks for the links, I'll visit those sites.

You are right 2 measurements full tele and full wide would be a good startpoint !

Alain

WHY wrote:
digitalkamera.de has a chart of nodal points; however, the G1 is
not listed. Once one of us determines the G1 nodal points, they can
be submited.
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Workshop/panorama/NodalPoint3-en.asp

digitalkamera.de's guide to finding your digicam's nodal point(s)
is here:
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Workshop/panorama/NodalPoint2-en.htm

panoguide.com's guides to finding and testing found nodal points:
http://www.panoguide.com/technique/setup_panohead.html
http://www.panoguide.com/technique/lamppost_test.html

What bugs me about finding nodal points for the G1's zoom lens is
that there's no numerical indicator of zoom length while shooting,
so we have to nodal for either of the 2 known zoom values of
extreme wide or extreme tele.

alain wrote:

To generate proper panorama, it's best to rotate around the nodal
point so that to points at different depths keep aligned during
rotation.

Has anybody measured the distance of the focal point for the G1 at
different focal lenghts ?

thank you
Alain

Ruvy Veteran Member • Posts: 4,623
Re: G1 nodal point

Hi Alain

Thanks for this post. I have been doing panoramas at work for nearly 30 years none on a tripod and never too concerned with accuracy of nodal point. That could mean two thing 1-I am not the brightest... 2-It is not that critical - at least not for my use.

With digital I either use the viewfinder but than can't use the pano stich or use the pano stich but than need to get the camera even further than the axis of my body/head and errors mounting.

Thanks for bringing it up and many thaks the guys who responded - great information

Ruvy

alain wrote:
Thanks for the links, I'll visit those sites.
You are right 2 measurements full tele and full wide would be a
good startpoint !

Alain

WHY wrote:
digitalkamera.de has a chart of nodal points; however, the G1 is
not listed. Once one of us determines the G1 nodal points, they can
be submited.
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Workshop/panorama/NodalPoint3-en.asp

digitalkamera.de's guide to finding your digicam's nodal point(s)
is here:
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Workshop/panorama/NodalPoint2-en.htm

panoguide.com's guides to finding and testing found nodal points:
http://www.panoguide.com/technique/setup_panohead.html
http://www.panoguide.com/technique/lamppost_test.html

What bugs me about finding nodal points for the G1's zoom lens is
that there's no numerical indicator of zoom length while shooting,
so we have to nodal for either of the 2 known zoom values of
extreme wide or extreme tele.

alain wrote:

To generate proper panorama, it's best to rotate around the nodal
point so that to points at different depths keep aligned during
rotation.

Has anybody measured the distance of the focal point for the G1 at
different focal lenghts ?

thank you
Alain

Ruvy Veteran Member • Posts: 4,623
Re: G1 nodal point

Forgot one important question (told you I'm not the brightest) is it the focal length that matter or is it the accurate position of the camera on the tripod that matters? After all we set it usually to widest angle... or am I missing something?

Ruvy

Ruvy wrote:
Hi Alain

Thanks for this post. I have been doing panoramas at work for
nearly 30 years none on a tripod and never too concerned with
accuracy of nodal point. That could mean two thing 1-I am not the
brightest... 2-It is not that critical - at least not for my use.

With digital I either use the viewfinder but than can't use the
pano stich or use the pano stich but than need to get the camera
even further than the axis of my body/head and errors mounting.

Thanks for bringing it up and many thaks the guys who responded -
great information

Ruvy

alain wrote:
Thanks for the links, I'll visit those sites.
You are right 2 measurements full tele and full wide would be a
good startpoint !

Alain

WHY wrote:
digitalkamera.de has a chart of nodal points; however, the G1 is
not listed. Once one of us determines the G1 nodal points, they can
be submited.
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Workshop/panorama/NodalPoint3-en.asp

digitalkamera.de's guide to finding your digicam's nodal point(s)
is here:
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Workshop/panorama/NodalPoint2-en.htm

panoguide.com's guides to finding and testing found nodal points:
http://www.panoguide.com/technique/setup_panohead.html
http://www.panoguide.com/technique/lamppost_test.html

What bugs me about finding nodal points for the G1's zoom lens is
that there's no numerical indicator of zoom length while shooting,
so we have to nodal for either of the 2 known zoom values of
extreme wide or extreme tele.

alain wrote:

To generate proper panorama, it's best to rotate around the nodal
point so that to points at different depths keep aligned during
rotation.

Has anybody measured the distance of the focal point for the G1 at
different focal lenghts ?

thank you
Alain

OP aeropic Contributing Member • Posts: 589
Re: G1 nodal point

Hi Ruvy,

Most often, when you capture landscape panorama (I mean outside) there are very few objects close to te objective. So when you rotate the camera, you don't suffer a lot from paralax effects and the images can be quite well stiched.

At the opposite, try to make an indoor panorama, and you will see that rotating not at the nodal point (see the links given on this thread) genrate some shifts between objects that are not at the same depth. When you try to stitch two pictures with shifted objects, it is quite impossible to do, so the softare introduces some blurr area to accomodate this problem ...

The nodal point is the accurate point around which you must rotate to avoid this parralax. It is depending on the focal lenght (which is not the same thing ...)

bye
Alain

Ruvy wrote:
Forgot one important question (told you I'm not the brightest) is
it the focal length that matter or is it the accurate position of
the camera on the tripod that matters? After all we set it usually
to widest angle... or am I missing something?

Ruvy

Ruvy wrote:
Hi Alain

Thanks for this post. I have been doing panoramas at work for
nearly 30 years none on a tripod and never too concerned with
accuracy of nodal point. That could mean two thing 1-I am not the
brightest... 2-It is not that critical - at least not for my use.

With digital I either use the viewfinder but than can't use the
pano stich or use the pano stich but than need to get the camera
even further than the axis of my body/head and errors mounting.

Thanks for bringing it up and many thaks the guys who responded -
great information

Ruvy

alain wrote:
Thanks for the links, I'll visit those sites.
You are right 2 measurements full tele and full wide would be a
good startpoint !

Alain

WHY wrote:
digitalkamera.de has a chart of nodal points; however, the G1 is
not listed. Once one of us determines the G1 nodal points, they can
be submited.
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Workshop/panorama/NodalPoint3-en.asp

digitalkamera.de's guide to finding your digicam's nodal point(s)
is here:
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Workshop/panorama/NodalPoint2-en.htm

panoguide.com's guides to finding and testing found nodal points:
http://www.panoguide.com/technique/setup_panohead.html
http://www.panoguide.com/technique/lamppost_test.html

What bugs me about finding nodal points for the G1's zoom lens is
that there's no numerical indicator of zoom length while shooting,
so we have to nodal for either of the 2 known zoom values of
extreme wide or extreme tele.

alain wrote:

To generate proper panorama, it's best to rotate around the nodal
point so that to points at different depths keep aligned during
rotation.

Has anybody measured the distance of the focal point for the G1 at
different focal lenghts ?

thank you
Alain

OP aeropic Contributing Member • Posts: 589
Re: G1 nodal point

Just to be clear, I've added two pictures to my previous answer. Both come the excellent site on panorama :
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Workshop/panorama/NodalPoint1-en.htm

enjoy and my everlasting thanks to the first one that will provide the G1 nodal point !

Alain

Alain wrote:

Hi Ruvy,

Most often, when you capture landscape panorama (I mean outside)
there are very few objects close to te objective. So when you
rotate the camera, you don't suffer a lot from paralax effects and
the images can be quite well stiched.
At the opposite, try to make an indoor panorama, and you will see
that rotating not at the nodal point (see the links given on this
thread) genrate some shifts between objects that are not at the
same depth.

When you try to stitch two pictures with shifted

objects, it is quite impossible to do, so the softare introduces
some blurr area to accomodate this problem ...

The nodal point is the accurate point around which you must rotate
to avoid this parralax. It is depending on the focal lenght (which
is not the same thing ...)

bye
Alain

Ruvy wrote:
Forgot one important question (told you I'm not the brightest) is
it the focal length that matter or is it the accurate position of
the camera on the tripod that matters? After all we set it usually
to widest angle... or am I missing something?

Ruvy

Ruvy wrote:
Hi Alain

Thanks for this post. I have been doing panoramas at work for
nearly 30 years none on a tripod and never too concerned with
accuracy of nodal point. That could mean two thing 1-I am not the
brightest... 2-It is not that critical - at least not for my use.

With digital I either use the viewfinder but than can't use the
pano stich or use the pano stich but than need to get the camera
even further than the axis of my body/head and errors mounting.

Thanks for bringing it up and many thaks the guys who responded -
great information

Ruvy

alain wrote:
Thanks for the links, I'll visit those sites.
You are right 2 measurements full tele and full wide would be a
good startpoint !

Alain

WHY wrote:
digitalkamera.de has a chart of nodal points; however, the G1 is
not listed. Once one of us determines the G1 nodal points, they can
be submited.
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Workshop/panorama/NodalPoint3-en.asp

digitalkamera.de's guide to finding your digicam's nodal point(s)
is here:
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Workshop/panorama/NodalPoint2-en.htm

panoguide.com's guides to finding and testing found nodal points:
http://www.panoguide.com/technique/setup_panohead.html
http://www.panoguide.com/technique/lamppost_test.html

What bugs me about finding nodal points for the G1's zoom lens is
that there's no numerical indicator of zoom length while shooting,
so we have to nodal for either of the 2 known zoom values of
extreme wide or extreme tele.

alain wrote:

To generate proper panorama, it's best to rotate around the nodal
point so that to points at different depths keep aligned during
rotation.

Has anybody measured the distance of the focal point for the G1 at
different focal lenghts ?

thank you
Alain

OP aeropic Contributing Member • Posts: 589
G1 nodal point measured

COnsedering that nobody has published this before, and as a result of a rainy day,
here are the measurements of the G1 nodal point I did this week-end .

http; aeropic.free.fr/G1/nodalpoint.jpg

bye

Alain

OP aeropic Contributing Member • Posts: 589
Re: G1 nodal point measured

Woops, better with a correct address

alain wrote:

Consedering that nobody has published this before, and as a result
of a rainy day,
here are the measurements of the G1 nodal point I did this week-end .

bye

Alain

Chris ™ Veteran Member • Posts: 3,221
Re: G1 nodal point measured

Hi Alain,

many thanx.

As soon as I finished my Panorama Tripod Head, I'll try your Nodal Points

Greetings from Germany

Chris

alain wrote:
Woops, better with a correct address

alain wrote:

Consedering that nobody has published this before, and as a result
of a rainy day,
here are the measurements of the G1 nodal point I did this week-end .

bye

Alain

 Chris ™'s gear list:Chris ™'s gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM Canon EF 28-135mm F3.5-5.6 IS USM Canon EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM +5 more
Ruvy Veteran Member • Posts: 4,623
Re: G1 nodal point measured

Alain and Chris

Thanks for the rain that let Alain do our work and Chris, can you share your head ideas? Based on Alains previous post I have developed some sketches for a tripod adaptor for the G1 - may be interesting to compare notes.

Ruvy

Chris wrote:
Hi Alain,

many thanx.

As soon as I finished my Panorama Tripod Head, I'll try your Nodal
Points

Greetings from Germany

Chris

alain wrote:
Woops, better with a correct address

alain wrote:

Consedering that nobody has published this before, and as a result
of a rainy day,
here are the measurements of the G1 nodal point I did this week-end .

bye

Alain

Chris ™ Veteran Member • Posts: 3,221
Re: G1 nodal point measured

Hi Ruvy,

my idea is to modify a macro tripod from Cullmann (german manufacturer) - it's called Cullmann3335. This baby is great, you can shot from 1cm above the ground up to 2 meters. At the following link you can see it in the biggest pic on top of the page:
http://www.cullmann.de/foto/85BC2125-9F6C-11D4-8F3E-00E07D82C707&lan=de

I got it together with a bag and an adjustment platform Cullmann3077, all together for about 165$ (exactly 330DM). And this 3077 is the key.

Look at this link and you can imagine, what I have in mind:
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Tip/Tip19990927-en.htm

But my solution is much cheaper - the 3077 costs only 30$

The second platform needs to be modified, to attach it on top of the other. The tripod mount of the platform need a thread, which can be easyly done by exchanging the tripod mount by a piece of wood with the thread in the middle. So I only have to get a thread (same size as on your cam) and a piece of wood (5x5x1 cm), which can be attached to the platform with the screws formerly holding the tripod mount. That's all.

BTW - this solution is only for horizontally shots.

Greetings from Germany

Chris

Ruvy wrote:

Alain and Chris

Thanks for the rain that let Alain do our work and Chris, can you
share your head ideas? Based on Alains previous post I have
developed some sketches for a tripod adaptor for the G1 - may be
interesting to compare notes.

Ruvy

 Chris ™'s gear list:Chris ™'s gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM Canon EF 28-135mm F3.5-5.6 IS USM Canon EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM +5 more
OP aeropic Contributing Member • Posts: 589
Re: G1 nodal point measured

Chris and Ruvy,

My idea too is to adapt a flat piece of wood or plastic on top a standard tripod. My big concern is to find those special "photo threads" screws or nuts fitting the tripod and G1 screws ...

I had already posted a message on this and learned it is an old english standard ... impossible to find this in France in a do it yourself shop. If anybody knows a place to buy this cheap in UK, please let me know !

Keep me informed when your head is ready.
bye
Alain

Chris wrote:
Hi Ruvy,

my idea is to modify a macro tripod from Cullmann (german
manufacturer) - it's called Cullmann3335. This baby is great, you
can shot from 1cm above the ground up to 2 meters. At the following
link you can see it in the biggest pic on top of the page:
http://www.cullmann.de/foto/85BC2125-9F6C-11D4-8F3E-00E07D82C707&lan=de

I got it together with a bag and an adjustment platform
Cullmann3077, all together for about 165$ (exactly 330DM). And this
3077 is the key.

Look at this link and you can imagine, what I have in mind:
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Tip/Tip19990927-en.htm

But my solution is much cheaper - the 3077 costs only 30$

The second platform needs to be modified, to attach it on top of
the other. The tripod mount of the platform need a thread, which
can be easyly done by exchanging the tripod mount by a piece of
wood with the thread in the middle. So I only have to get a thread
(same size as on your cam) and a piece of wood (5x5x1 cm), which
can be attached to the platform with the screws formerly holding
the tripod mount. That's all.

BTW - this solution is only for horizontally shots.

Greetings from Germany

Chris

Ruvy wrote:

Alain and Chris

Thanks for the rain that let Alain do our work and Chris, can you
share your head ideas? Based on Alains previous post I have
developed some sketches for a tripod adaptor for the G1 - may be
interesting to compare notes.

Ruvy

Gerhard New Member • Posts: 1
Re: G1 nodal point measured

alain wrote:

COnsedering that nobody has published this before, and as a result
of a rainy day,
here are the measurements of the G1 nodal point I did this week-end .
http; aeropic.free.fr/G1/nodalpoint.jpg

Hi Alain,

Thanks for this.

Do you have by any chance the G1 wide angle converter and could provide the n- points for this too?

Considering it is 1am now and I'm too lazy to setup tripod, camera etc, I will post tomorrow my version of tripod and self made piece of aluminium to rotate the G1 into the n- point. I take (nearly) all my pano's in portrait, so existing solutions failed with my stupid designed tripod.

Good night
Gerhard

OP aeropic Contributing Member • Posts: 589
Re: G1 nodal point measured

Gerhard wrote:

Thanks for this.
Do you have by any chance the G1 wide angle converter and could
provide the n- points for this too?

Sorry I have no adapter, but if you or anybody else want to provide me with a free one , I'm ready to perform the measurements

bye
Alain

Ruvy Veteran Member • Posts: 4,623
Re: G1 nodal point measured

Chris and Alain

Thanks for the interesting ideas and information about this amaizing tripod. What I had in mind (free for use by anyone wanting it for their own use - commercial use of this ideas requires a written permission from me) is something along the lines of the attached sketches.

They all have a lowered slot for connecting to the tripod bolt. This allows use of any focal length assuming that the bolt of the tripod is at or near center of rotation. The circular hole is to connect the camera with a camera thread. (Alain, there is a Japanese manufacturer of a grip to the G1 who uses this bolt + all tripod manufacturers are using it so it is available).

The upper unit in the sketches is from cast alluminum or plastic
The second sketch is from two aluminum or wood bars
The third is from pressed mettal sheet.

Hope it is interesting for you
http://www.fototime.com/ {29A41208-5EA9-11D5-B486-444553540000} picture.JPG

Ruvy

http://www.fototime.com/ {29A41208-5EA9-11D5-B486-444553540000} picture.JPG

Chris wrote:

Hi Ruvy,

Ruvy Veteran Member • Posts: 4,623
Re: G1 nodal point measured

Just heard there is another bracket manufacturer for the G1. It is A company called Kaidan I didn't go yet to their site and don't know if they have one but the bracket i have seen is most impressive.

Ruvy

p.s. Chris, wher did you get the tripod?

Chris wrote:
Hi Ruvy,

my idea is to modify a macro tripod from Cullmann (german
manufacturer) - it's called Cullmann3335. This baby is great, you
can shot from 1cm above the ground up to 2 meters. At the following
link you can see it in the biggest pic on top of the page:
http://www.cullmann.de/foto/85BC2125-9F6C-11D4-8F3E-00E07D82C707&lan=de

I got it together with a bag and an adjustment platform
Cullmann3077, all together for about 165$ (exactly 330DM). And this
3077 is the key.

Look at this link and you can imagine, what I have in mind:
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Info/Tip/Tip19990927-en.htm

But my solution is much cheaper - the 3077 costs only 30$

The second platform needs to be modified, to attach it on top of
the other. The tripod mount of the platform need a thread, which
can be easyly done by exchanging the tripod mount by a piece of
wood with the thread in the middle. So I only have to get a thread
(same size as on your cam) and a piece of wood (5x5x1 cm), which
can be attached to the platform with the screws formerly holding
the tripod mount. That's all.

BTW - this solution is only for horizontally shots.

Greetings from Germany

Chris

Ruvy wrote:

Alain and Chris

Thanks for the rain that let Alain do our work and Chris, can you
share your head ideas? Based on Alains previous post I have
developed some sketches for a tripod adaptor for the G1 - may be
interesting to compare notes.

Ruvy

Chris ™ Veteran Member • Posts: 3,221
Re: G1 nodal point measured

Hi Ruvy!

Just heard there is another bracket manufacturer for the G1. It is
A company called Kaidan I didn't go yet to their site and don't
know if they have one but the bracket i have seen is most
impressive.

Their solution is veeerrryyy expensive

Greetings from Germany

Chris

 Chris ™'s gear list:Chris ™'s gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM Canon EF 28-135mm F3.5-5.6 IS USM Canon EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM +5 more
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