Adobe Color Space: Not Lovin' It... (Pics)

Started Jun 29, 2004 | Discussions
ThomasBricker Forum Member • Posts: 86
Adobe Color Space: Not Lovin' It... (Pics)

Ok so I shot in Adobe color space.
Color looks pretty grim.
Is it just that it will only look good in Photoshop set to Adobe 1998?
I tried it and it looked a little better.
I personally think that ColorMatch RGB is the best RGB space of all of them.
What do the rest of you think?

BTW, how do people "load" this "White Wedding Curve I keep hearing about?
What is it exactly?

These are the Adobe RGB shots:

  • T

Andrew Veteran Member • Posts: 4,486
Re: Adobe Color Space: Not Lovin' It... (Pics)

If you are printing photographic, I think most inkjets, or for web, sRGB is the colour space to use. Adobe rgb has more gamut, but it wont print properly anyway, it is more for offset type printing (magazines etc)

ThomasBricker wrote:

Ok so I shot in Adobe color space.
Color looks pretty grim.
Is it just that it will only look good in Photoshop set to Adobe 1998?
I tried it and it looked a little better.
I personally think that ColorMatch RGB is the best RGB space of all
of them.
What do the rest of you think?

BTW, how do people "load" this "White Wedding Curve I keep hearing
about?
What is it exactly?

These are the Adobe RGB shots:

  • T

hya Junior Member • Posts: 33
Re: Adobe Color Space: Not Lovin' It... (Pics)

If you're shooting in Adobe Color space, but need to use your work on the web or other computer displays, you may want to make sure your picture is converted to sRGB before saving a copy to the web. To do that, set the default Photoshop color space to sRGB. When you open the file, it'll ask you what color space you want to work in - select "convert to current working space."

Some printers such as the HP 7960 allow you to print Adobe RGB files directly using the Adobe RGB color space ... check your printer's manual for such a feature.

-hya

ThomasBricker wrote:

Ok so I shot in Adobe color space.
Color looks pretty grim.
Is it just that it will only look good in Photoshop set to Adobe 1998?
I tried it and it looked a little better.
I personally think that ColorMatch RGB is the best RGB space of all
of them.
What do the rest of you think?

BTW, how do people "load" this "White Wedding Curve I keep hearing
about?
What is it exactly?

These are the Adobe RGB shots:

  • T

Nanosec Forum Member • Posts: 90
Re: Adobe Color Space: Not Lovin' It... (Pics)

They don't look too bad.

I had a similar problem, shooting in Adobe RGB, saving to jpeg, and my viewer Acdsee wouldn't recognize the profile so the colors looked dull and lifeless.

Solution: in Photoshop, go to Image, Mode, Convert to Profile, and select sRGB, then save. Or just shoot in sRGB.

For the custom curves here's the url with instructions and curves: http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/custom_tone_curves_3.html
http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/downloads.html

I prefer the EV3 v3.4 curve.

Good Luck
N32°.44.978, W117°.09.049

OP ThomasBricker Forum Member • Posts: 86
Adobe Color Space: Not So Good

Nanosec,

Thanks for the link.
What an excellent explanation of the custom curve thing.
Why isnt this disscussed in the D70 manual?

Thanks again.

I tried opening the images in Adobe RGB and sRGB.
They still looked pretty grim.
Guess I'll stick with sRGB until I figure out the custom curve thing further.

Nanosec wrote:

They don't look too bad.

I had a similar problem, shooting in Adobe RGB, saving to jpeg, and
my viewer Acdsee wouldn't recognize the profile so the colors
looked dull and lifeless.

Solution: in Photoshop, go to Image, Mode, Convert to Profile, and
select sRGB, then save. Or just shoot in sRGB.

For the custom curves here's the url with instructions and curves:
http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/custom_tone_curves_3.html
http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/downloads.html

I prefer the EV3 v3.4 curve.

Good Luck
N32°.44.978, W117°.09.049

Matt in FL Veteran Member • Posts: 5,305
Re: Adobe Color Space: Not So Good

ThomasBricker wrote:
Nanosec,

Thanks for the link.
What an excellent explanation of the custom curve thing.
Why isnt this disscussed in the D70 manual?

Thanks again.

I tried opening the images in Adobe RGB and sRGB.
They still looked pretty grim.
Guess I'll stick with sRGB until I figure out the custom curve
thing further.

Nanosec wrote:

They don't look too bad.

I had a similar problem, shooting in Adobe RGB, saving to jpeg, and
my viewer Acdsee wouldn't recognize the profile so the colors
looked dull and lifeless.

Solution: in Photoshop, go to Image, Mode, Convert to Profile, and
select sRGB, then save. Or just shoot in sRGB.

For the custom curves here's the url with instructions and curves:
http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/custom_tone_curves_3.html
http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/downloads.html

I prefer the EV3 v3.4 curve.

Good Luck
N32°.44.978, W117°.09.049

-- hide signature --

have had some luck with this....either a or s exp mode, some program unless very specific need for M mode. I shoot all nef in color mode 1 or 3. No sharp in camera, moderate sat, -1 on contrast, a lot of auto wb-1, auto iso unless it a very unique setting. When I open in nef I usually size it to 270 dpi, change the color mode to III or people or IIIa for vegetation. Epx +1/3 step, I retune wb, then I load a custom curve, I like the 039 one a lot...I know this is backwards but, copy the custom curve, then change the extension to .ncv and place it in the documents and settings folder... this allows it to work on the NEF file.... the effect is instant when you load the curve....then I save the nef and use the photoshop eye to transfer the image to ps8. there i do the levels and high pass sharpening and any color cast correction and or masking operations.... As I have repeated this work flow about 150 times now, it goes very quick. the only variance, I may load a diff curve or two.
MATTinNE_FL

 Matt in FL's gear list:Matt in FL's gear list
DxO One
OP ThomasBricker Forum Member • Posts: 86
Re: Adobe Color Space: Not So Good

Hi Matt,

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but I find your instructions nearly incomprehensible.
Sounds very complicated.

  • T

Matt in FL wrote:

ThomasBricker wrote:
Nanosec,

Thanks for the link.
What an excellent explanation of the custom curve thing.
Why isnt this disscussed in the D70 manual?

Thanks again.

I tried opening the images in Adobe RGB and sRGB.
They still looked pretty grim.
Guess I'll stick with sRGB until I figure out the custom curve
thing further.

Nanosec wrote:

They don't look too bad.

I had a similar problem, shooting in Adobe RGB, saving to jpeg, and
my viewer Acdsee wouldn't recognize the profile so the colors
looked dull and lifeless.

Solution: in Photoshop, go to Image, Mode, Convert to Profile, and
select sRGB, then save. Or just shoot in sRGB.

For the custom curves here's the url with instructions and curves:
http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/custom_tone_curves_3.html
http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/downloads.html

I prefer the EV3 v3.4 curve.

Good Luck
N32°.44.978, W117°.09.049

Les Berkley
Les Berkley Senior Member • Posts: 1,638
Re: Adobe Color Space: Not Lovin' It... (Pics)

Aieee!

No. Inkjets have a MUCH wider gamut than offset presses. If you work in sRGB you are choking your color gamut totally! For web, I would (reluctantly) use sRGB, although you are still limiting the view on a properly calibrated monitor, especially on a Mac where the browser is color managed.

Les

Andrew wrote:

If you are printing photographic, I think most inkjets, or for web,
sRGB is the colour space to use. Adobe rgb has more gamut, but it
wont print properly anyway, it is more for offset type printing
(magazines etc)

 Les Berkley's gear list:Les Berkley's gear list
Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D
Robert Peters Veteran Member • Posts: 5,396
Time out, folks. Let me try to answer.

All of the following is based on my personal experiences over the last 4 years. I do not claim to be an expert.

(0) The file name associated with your picture is of the form DSC_0654, for instance. If the image were recorded in Adobe RGB the file name would begin with DSC. Have you renamed the files or was that particular image recorded in sRGB? The file does not contain any color space tag.

(1) If you are using Photoshop and are recording the images in Adobe RGB (I'm assuming you are using jpeg format) then the Photoshop Working Space should be set Adobe RGB.

(2) Open the Potoshop Color Settings and enable ALL the warning dialogs (missing profile, profile mismatch, etc) so that you dont get any "color surprises."

(3) If you have a printer such as an Epson Stylus Photo 1280 or any printer which is supplied with profiles for the various papers you use then you DO NOT need to convert to sRGB before printing. Period. However, you MUST let Photoshop do all the color management and TURN OFF the color management of the printer driver. If you can't perform the final step then you will probably have to convert to sRGB (or whatever is recommended for your printer).

(4) If the colors of the Adobe RGB images look drab in your browser then your browser does not perform proper color management. In particular, IE on Windows assumes the whole universe is sRGB. If you use a Macintosh then Safari does color management as does IE.

Drab colors (relative to Photochop) in other applications also are the result of improper color management.

(5) When you post to the web you must first "Convert to Profile" with sRGB as the target.

I hope this helps.

Bob Peters

ThomasBricker wrote:

Ok so I shot in Adobe color space.
Color looks pretty grim.
Is it just that it will only look good in Photoshop set to Adobe 1998?
I tried it and it looked a little better.
I personally think that ColorMatch RGB is the best RGB space of all
of them.
What do the rest of you think?

BTW, how do people "load" this "White Wedding Curve I keep hearing
about?
What is it exactly?

These are the Adobe RGB shots:

  • T

 Robert Peters's gear list:Robert Peters's gear list
Nikon 1 V2 Nikon D70 Nikon 1 V3 Nikon D750 Nikon 1 Nikkor VR 10-30mm f/3.5-5.6 +13 more
Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 25,824
Re: Time out, folks. Let me try to answer.

(3) If you have a printer such as an Epson Stylus Photo 1280 or any
printer which is supplied with profiles for the various papers you
use then you DO NOT need to convert to sRGB before printing.
Period. However, you MUST let Photoshop do all the color
management and TURN OFF the color management of the printer driver.
If you can't perform the final step then you will probably have to
convert to sRGB (or whatever is recommended for your printer).

"Print with preview" with destination profile set to printer/paper/ink combo profile.

While convertion, intent makes the difference. For some profiles it is perceptual intent that works best; but with many modern profiles it is relative colorimetric.

-- hide signature --

no text

beaucamera Senior Member • Posts: 2,232
What is Nikon WinMonitor 4.00.3000?

This business of color spaces in driving me crazy! I certainly appreciate all the help each of you has been in helping others understand the color space question. I think the vendors have responsibilty in this area and they certainly don't seem to be talking to each other. You'd think they'd help us with a better idea of how to get from what we have in the camera to the screen and then to print.

I'm getting great stuff on the screen, but when I print on my Tektronix 704 plus...yuk! and when I convert to web in PSCS my images loose a lot of their color vibrancy. David Chin has suggested some things to me and I've been experimenting but I'm still lost in color space! Does anybody know what Nikon WinMonitor 4.00.3000 is and how to use it? You'll find this as an option in the profile submenu in PSCS.

Robert Peters wrote:
All of the following is based on my personal experiences over the
last 4 years. I do not claim to be an expert.

(0) The file name associated with your picture is of the form
DSC_0654, for instance. If the image were recorded in Adobe RGB
the file name would begin with DSC. Have you renamed the files or
was that particular image recorded in sRGB? The file does not
contain any color space tag.

(1) If you are using Photoshop and are recording the images in
Adobe RGB (I'm assuming you are using jpeg format) then the
Photoshop Working Space should be set Adobe RGB.

(2) Open the Potoshop Color Settings and enable ALL the warning
dialogs (missing profile, profile mismatch, etc) so that you dont
get any "color surprises."

(3) If you have a printer such as an Epson Stylus Photo 1280 or any
printer which is supplied with profiles for the various papers you
use then you DO NOT need to convert to sRGB before printing.
Period. However, you MUST let Photoshop do all the color
management and TURN OFF the color management of the printer driver.
If you can't perform the final step then you will probably have to
convert to sRGB (or whatever is recommended for your printer).

(4) If the colors of the Adobe RGB images look drab in your browser
then your browser does not perform proper color management. In
particular, IE on Windows assumes the whole universe is sRGB. If
you use a Macintosh then Safari does color management as does IE.
Drab colors (relative to Photochop) in other applications also are
the result of improper color management.

(5) When you post to the web you must first "Convert to Profile"
with sRGB as the target.

I hope this helps.

Bob Peters

ThomasBricker wrote:

Ok so I shot in Adobe color space.
Color looks pretty grim.
Is it just that it will only look good in Photoshop set to Adobe 1998?
I tried it and it looked a little better.
I personally think that ColorMatch RGB is the best RGB space of all
of them.
What do the rest of you think?

BTW, how do people "load" this "White Wedding Curve I keep hearing
about?
What is it exactly?

These are the Adobe RGB shots:

  • T

Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 25,824
Re: What is Nikon WinMonitor 4.00.3000?

It is a genric monitor profile used in case there is no special profile set for the monitor.

To print, convert the image to the printer profile and print with printer driver color management off.

To publish to web, you can convert to sRGB or WinMonitor profile (sometimes it is much better:)

Convert means convert, not assign. When the convertion is done correctly, nearly no color shift on screen is visible.

-- hide signature --

no text

1stAde Regular Member • Posts: 482
I thought I had a rough idea, but that 2nd sentence...

colour profiles I should imagine are an area of confusion for lots of us, and many of us barely grasp the subject. But after reading
" While convertion, intent makes the difference. For some profiles it

is perceptual intent that works best; but with many modern profiles
it is relative colorimetric."

I am thinking of going to process B&W for all my photos! LOL!

Adrian.

Iliah Borg wrote:

(3) If you have a printer such as an Epson Stylus Photo 1280 or any
printer which is supplied with profiles for the various papers you
use then you DO NOT need to convert to sRGB before printing.
Period. However, you MUST let Photoshop do all the color
management and TURN OFF the color management of the printer driver.
If you can't perform the final step then you will probably have to
convert to sRGB (or whatever is recommended for your printer).

"Print with preview" with destination profile set to
printer/paper/ink combo profile.

While convertion, intent makes the difference. For some profiles it
is perceptual intent that works best; but with many modern profiles
it is relative colorimetric.

-- hide signature --

no text

beaucamera Senior Member • Posts: 2,232
Thank you, but who's one first?

Should the printer driver color management be set to off in both the printer and in the software? I normally have the the printer hardware set to sRGB? If the hardware is set to "off" there is hardly any color.

What is the difference between converting and assigning? What should be done where?

Iliah Borg wrote:

It is a genric monitor profile used in case there is no special
profile set for the monitor.

To print, convert the image to the printer profile and print with
printer driver color management off.

To publish to web, you can convert to sRGB or WinMonitor profile
(sometimes it is much better:)

Convert means convert, not assign. When the convertion is done
correctly, nearly no color shift on screen is visible.

Robert Peters Veteran Member • Posts: 5,396
Oops. Thank you, Iliah. (nt)

Iliah Borg wrote:

(3) If you have a printer such as an Epson Stylus Photo 1280 or any
printer which is supplied with profiles for the various papers you
use then you DO NOT need to convert to sRGB before printing.
Period. However, you MUST let Photoshop do all the color
management and TURN OFF the color management of the printer driver.
If you can't perform the final step then you will probably have to
convert to sRGB (or whatever is recommended for your printer).

"Print with preview" with destination profile set to
printer/paper/ink combo profile.

While convertion, intent makes the difference. For some profiles it
is perceptual intent that works best; but with many modern profiles
it is relative colorimetric.

 Robert Peters's gear list:Robert Peters's gear list
Nikon 1 V2 Nikon D70 Nikon 1 V3 Nikon D750 Nikon 1 Nikkor VR 10-30mm f/3.5-5.6 +13 more
Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 25,824
Re: Thank you, but who's one first?

beaucamera wrote:

Should the printer driver color management be set to off in both
the printer and in the software? I normally have the the printer
hardware set to sRGB? If the hardware is set to "off" there is
hardly any color.

If you print from Photoshop, or othe colour-savvy program - set driver and all other components (if there are any) to "color management off"

What is the difference between converting and assigning? What
should be done where?

Converting is changing RGB (CMYK) numbers and preserving colour; assigning is vice versa.

When you want to represent colour on the target device accuratly, you convert to destination colour space.

When the sourcre file is untagged, but you know somehow what is the colour space for it (mainly by educated guess), you assign that source space.

When the source file is untagged, and you do not have an idea of what colour space it is, you try assigning different source colour spaces.

When the source file is tagged, but the tag seems to be invalid, see above

When the source file is too dark, or too light, you assign same colour space to it, but with different gamma value.

When the source file is too red, or too blue, you assign same colour space to it, but with different white point.

Superposition of assignments is possible and widely used; after assigning you convert to working colour space.

-- hide signature --

no text

Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 25,824
Re: I thought I had a rough idea, but that 2nd sentence...

1stAde wrote:
But after reading
" While convertion, intent makes the difference. For some profiles it

is perceptual intent that works best; but with many modern profiles
it is relative colorimetric."

I am thinking of going to process B&W for all my photos! LOL!

Oh, yes

On a serious note, should I explain?

-- hide signature --

no text

beaucamera Senior Member • Posts: 2,232
Thank you again!

Iliah Borg wrote:

beaucamera wrote:

Should the printer driver color management be set to off in both
the printer and in the software? I normally have the the printer
hardware set to sRGB? If the hardware is set to "off" there is
hardly any color.

If you print from Photoshop, or othe colour-savvy program - set
driver and all other components (if there are any) to "color
management off"

Is this called the ICM profile?

What should I set the printer hardware settings to? For software I am using Adobe CS Suite mostly sometime MS Office 2003, where I insert photos.

What is the difference between converting and assigning? What

should be done where?

Converting is changing RGB (CMYK) numbers and preserving colour;
assigning is vice versa.

Huh? not sure what you mean?

When you want to represent colour on the target device accuratly,
you convert to destination colour space.

So this means I take the camera color space and convert it to the color space I am using in my software program, e.g. PSCS, Adobe RGB, right? Then turn the color management software off in the print driver to print...as sRGB?

If I'm using Adobe RGB, at this point and want to make a jpeg for the web, what method do you recommend? I've been using the save for the web feature in PSCS. I take my photos as NEFs, bringing them in to Nikon View 6.22 for initial processing and then in PSCS where they become 16 bit tiffs. This is the point I then "save for the web." ( and sometimes I convert to 8 bit tiffs.)

When the sourcre file is untagged, but you know somehow what is the
colour space for it (mainly by educated guess), you assign that
source space.

When would a color space be untagged? How do you untag it? Why?

When the source file is untagged, and you do not have an idea of
what colour space it is, you try assigning different source colour
spaces.

When the source file is tagged, but the tag seems to be invalid,
see above

If I understand you correctly, this is where I seem to be having a problem with printing. What should I be doing here? How should I do this? Should this correction be made in the application software or does it somehow need to be setup in the operating system, Win XP Pro?

When the source file is too dark, or too light, you assign same
colour space to it, but with different gamma value.

Could you give an example? I seem to be loosing color value in my conversions and printing. What should I do to the gamma value?

When the source file is too red, or too blue, you assign same
colour space to it, but with different white point.

How does one adjust the white point in a CS profile?

Superposition of assignments is possible and widely used; after
assigning you convert to working colour space.

What color space would you be in here and what color space would your image actually have? The working color space or the one you used when you actually took the photo?

I know this is complicated and I really appreciate your help!
--
no text

Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 25,824
an attempt to answer :)

beaucamera wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

beaucamera wrote:

Should the printer driver color management be set to off in both
the printer and in the software? I normally have the the printer
hardware set to sRGB? If the hardware is set to "off" there is
hardly any color.

If you print from Photoshop, or othe colour-savvy program - set
driver and all other components (if there are any) to "color
management off"

Is this called the ICM profile?

Do you mean driver here? If so, there should be a setting like "Color Management OFF", maybe in advanced settings.

What should I set the printer hardware settings to? For software I am using Adobe CS Suite mostly sometime MS Office 2003, where I insert photos.

Normally printer has no hardware settings. Some printers (especially those that can print from the CF card, without a computer) let you choose modes from control panel on the printer itself. For these, just set the colour management to "off"

What is the difference between converting and assigning? What

should be done where?

Converting is changing RGB (CMYK) numbers and preserving colour;
assigning is vice versa.

Huh? not sure what you mean?

Colour is represented by numbers; you can see those numbers in Info palette. But those numbers can be interpreted in different ways. Let's assume you have 2 different reds - one in your pen, and another one in your pencil. If you put equal amount of these inks onto the paper, the tint and density will be different. So, we need something more then just figures/numbers. Roughly, this is called colour space. It helps interpreting numbers to the look of the colour.

Now, assigning is like preserving the amount, but changing the ink. If you outline the red pen with red pencil, you see that colour changes.

Converting is changing the amount of inks to match as close as possible the original colour with a mix of new inks.

When you want to represent colour on the target device accuratly,
you convert to destination colour space.

So this means I take the camera color space and convert it to the
color space I am using in my software program, e.g. PSCS, Adobe
RGB, right? Then turn the color management software off in the
print driver to print...as sRGB?

If you use "print with preview", you can set the destination profile to your printer profile. PS will make the correct conversion this case.

If I'm using Adobe RGB, at this point and want to make a jpeg for
the web, what method do you recommend? I've been using the save
for the web feature in PSCS. I take my photos as NEFs, bringing
them in to Nikon View 6.22 for initial processing and then in PSCS
where they become 16 bit tiffs. This is the point I then "save for
the web." ( and sometimes I convert to 8 bit tiffs.)

Before "save for web" it is a good idea to convert to sRGB or generic monitor profile. Better to do the conversion in 16-bit mode, though the difference is not that great.

When the sourcre file is untagged, but you know somehow what is the
colour space for it (mainly by educated guess), you assign that
source space.

When would a color space be untagged? How do you untag it? Why?

if you save the file from PS, you can uncheck the option of saving colour profile. as a result, file is smaller. saving for web usually is done that way; and if you bring a file from web to PS, ad it is untagged, 80% it is OK to start with assigning sRGB to it.

When the source file is untagged, and you do not have an idea of
what colour space it is, you try assigning different source colour
spaces.

When the source file is tagged, but the tag seems to be invalid,
see above

If I understand you correctly, this is where I seem to be having a
problem with printing.

Hard to tell. Check the colour settings in NC.

In PS, Shift-Ctrl-K, please, and look at your settings to know what is going when you open a file. See what printer profiles do you have installed in the system; how is your driver instructed to deal with colour; and try "print with preview" with correct profile set as your printer profile.

I would be happy to answer your other questions, too; but let's try to straighten your printing first.

Please try printing a well-known target. You can find one here:
http://68.251.170.110/hd/kb/CTI_Target.zip

Convert it to your printer profile using perceptual and relative colorimetric intents and print with each intent.
Guide to target printout evaluation is in the pdf file you will find in archive.

Extremely useful is
http://digitaldog.imagingrevue.com/tips/

-- hide signature --

no text

beaucamera Senior Member • Posts: 2,232
Re: an attempt to answer :) thank you

Iliah Borg wrote:

beaucamera wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

beaucamera wrote:

Should the printer driver color management be set to off in both
the printer and in the software? I normally have the the printer
hardware set to sRGB? If the hardware is set to "off" there is
hardly any color.

If you print from Photoshop, or othe colour-savvy program - set
driver and all other components (if there are any) to color
management off

Is this called the ICM profile?

Do you mean driver here? If so, there should be a setting like
Color Management OFF, maybe in advanced settings.

The ICM profile is in the advanced settings and that is where the color management is selected. One of the options is off.

What should I set the printer hardware settings to? For software I am using Adobe CS Suite mostly sometime MS Office 2003, where I insert photos.

Normally printer has no hardware settings. Some printers
(especially those that can print from the CF card, without a
computer) let you choose modes from control panel on the printer
itself. For these, just set the colour management to "off"

The Tekronix 740 plus is a network color laser printer that allows you to set the color preferences on the control panel of the printer itself. This is the printer I am using. >

What is the difference between converting and assigning? What should be done where?

Converting is changing RGB (CMYK) numbers and preserving colour;
assigning is vice versa.

Huh? not sure what you mean?

Colour is represented by numbers; you can see those numbers in Info
palette. But those numbers can be interpreted in different ways.
Let's assume you have 2 different reds - one in your pen, and
another one in your pencil. If you put equal amount of these inks
onto the paper, the tint and density will be different. So, we need
something more then just figures/numbers. Roughly, this is called
colour space. It helps interpreting numbers to the look of the
colour.

Now, assigning is like preserving the amount, but changing the ink.
If you outline the red pen with red pencil, you see that colour
changes.

Converting is changing the amount of inks to match as close as
possible the original colour with a mix of new inks.

When you want to represent colour on the target device accuratly,
you convert to destination colour space.

So this means I take the camera color space and convert it to the
color space I am using in my software program, e.g. PSCS, Adobe
RGB, right? Then turn the color management software off in the
print driver to print?

If you use "print with preview", you can set the destination
profile to your printer profile. PS will make the correct
conversion this case.

I use the "print with preview" and the print profile I usually use is SRGB. There is also another "print with preview" option: color management or output. Do you know which of these should be selected and how they should be used?

If I'm using Adobe RGB, at this point and want to make a jpeg for
the web, what method do you recommend? I've been using the save
for the web feature in PSCS. I take my photos as NEFs, bringing
them in to Nikon View 6.22 for initial processing and then in PSCS
where they become 16 bit tiffs. This is the point I then "save for
the web."

Before "save for web" it is a good idea to convert to sRGB or
generic monitor profile. Better to do the conversion in 16-bit
mode, though the difference is not that great.

Where should this adjustment be done? Is it in PS Preferences color mode or assign profile? and how to you keep what you've done to the tiff if you want to save your work for print after you've done this?

When the sourcre file is untagged, but you know somehow what is the
colour space for it (mainly by educated guess), you assign that
source space.

When would a color space be untagged? How do you untag it? Why?

if you save the file from PS, you can uncheck the option of saving
colour profile. as a result, file is smaller. saving for web
usually is done that way; and if you bring a file from web to PS,
ad it is untagged, 80% it is OK to start with assigning sRGB to it.

When the source file is untagged, and you do not have an idea of
what colour space it is, you try assigning different source colour
spaces.

When the source file is tagged, but the tag seems to be invalid,
see above

If I understand you correctly, this is where I seem to be having a
problem with printing.

Hard to tell. Check the colour settings in NC.

Don't have NC. Maybe it's time to use that trial version.

In PS, Shift-Ctrl-K, please, and look at your settings to know what
is going when you open a file. See what printer profiles do you
have installed in the system; how is your driver instructed to deal
with colour; and try "print with preview" with correct profile set
as your printer profile.

I've reviewed this many times to ensure the correct settings are used, but I think the problem is in software color space .

I would be happy to answer your other questions, too; but let's try
to straighten your printing first.

Please try printing a well-known target. You can find one here:
http://68.251.170.110/hd/kb/CTI_Target.zip
Convert it to your printer profile using perceptual and relative
colorimetric intents and print with each intent.
Guide to target printout evaluation is in the pdf file you will
find in archive.

Extremely useful is
http://digitaldog.imagingrevue.com/tips/

Thank you again. I'll have to check some of this out later though, I have to go to work now!

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