Do you still prefer a D70 over a hacked 300D?

Started Jun 9, 2004 | Discussions
www.nikon-fotografie.de Junior Member • Posts: 33
Re: Do you still prefer a D70 over a hacked 300D?

Ed, there will be no firmware upgrade or even a firmware hack that will take "your" photos for you and even better than you can do it with any camera right now!

That´s it, still today, and that´s o.k.!

-Ed- wrote:

I don't want to get into another heated debate but I was over at
300D forum and I read many "anti D70" comments that attacks many
aspects of the camera especially the "inferior" image quality claim
due to moire and noise. What really bothered me was that no one
was able to defend against those claims. Peacekeeper, Todd, and
Msport had tried but I think they were overpowered by a few
relentless Canonians.

I personally have not experienced such problems. In fact, I am
perfectly happy with D70 and I have printed out a few unbelivable
pictures.

But now, I wonder if I get the best performance / $ ratio
especially now the new firmware hack is available that gives the
camera new features such as ISO 3200 and MLU.

So my question is now if you can return your D70 for a 300D + about
$400 more in your wallet, would you do it?

-- hide signature --

Greetings... Klaus

Email me: harms.klaus@t-online.de

Welcome to the 'German Nikon-Fotografie Forum': http://www.nikon-fotografie.de

tgosborn Regular Member • Posts: 282
Re: Do you still prefer a D70 over a hacked 300D?

-Ed- wrote:

I don't want to get into another heated debate but I was over at
300D forum and I read many "anti D70" comments that attacks many
aspects of the camera especially the "inferior" image quality claim
due to moire and noise. What really bothered me was that no one
was able to defend against those claims. Peacekeeper, Todd, and
Msport had tried but I think they were overpowered by a few
relentless Canonians.

I personally have not experienced such problems. In fact, I am
perfectly happy with D70 and I have printed out a few unbelivable
pictures.

But now, I wonder if I get the best performance / $ ratio
especially now the new firmware hack is available that gives the
camera new features such as ISO 3200 and MLU.

So my question is now if you can return your D70 for a 300D + about
$400 more in your wallet, would you do it?

-- hide signature --

ahhh more D70 bashing LOL... well I compared the 300d prior to getting my D70... it was cheap and toy like. Although the camera can take some good pics the features are very limited in comparison and the D70 performance wins hands down. When Canonians start I just tell them that I honestly don't think the 300d could have been made any lighter, with more plastic, to look any cheaper... and still sell... they really do have that "my first camera" look a teenager might envy. The D70 can be adjusted using settings and custom tone curves to produce shots just like a 300d but it is also so much more versitile and looks and feels like a real professional camera IMO...

My Gallery:
http://www.voodoo.smugmug.com

lawnmower Senior Member • Posts: 1,826
The D70 wins hands down.

1. The D70 allows 7 preset parameter settings; the 300D only allows might allow 5!

2. The D70’s color has 2 x sRGB plus Adobe RGB and the 300D only has 1 x sRGB plus Adobe RGB

3. The D70 has 3D matrix, 1005 pixel metering, the 300D only has 35 zone metering.

4. The D70 allows exposure compensation in + - 5 EV 1/3 or 1/2 EV steps and the 300D only allows + - 2 EV 1/3 EV steps.

5. The D70 allows flash compensation in -3 to +1 EV 1/3 or 1/2 EV steps the 300D allows none!

6. The D70 has shutter speeds from to 30 - 1/8000 sec and the 300D only goes to 1/4000 sec.

7. The D70 can flash sync External: up to 1/500 sec and the 300D only can flash sync 1/200 sec.

8. The D70 can manually select AF modes Single, Continuous and the 300D can not manually select any!

9. The D70 has a dedicated AF assist lamp and the 300D’s flash strobe, must be up.

10. The D70 can shoot continuous JPEG bursts at 3 frames per second until the buffer is full and the 300D can only shoot at 2.5 frames per second for 4 measly shots. The 300D’s buffer does not even come close to compare to the D70’s!

11. The D70’s self timer can be set from 2 - 20 sec and the 300D can only be set to 10 sec.

12. The D70 slow sync flash can be set to 1st or 2nd Curtain and the 300D can only be set to 1st.

13. The D70 white balance can be fine tuned and the 300D’s white balance can’t.

14. The D70 has 9 or 35 setting custom functions and the 300D has none!

15. The D70 has an LCD that is 1.8", 130,000 pixels and the 300D’s LCD is only 118,000 pixels.

16. The D70 provides embedded in EXIF and the 300D doesn’t.

17. The D70 has one rear and one front command dial and the 300D only has one poorly placed top command dial.

18. The D70’s power on is virtually instant and the 300D takes 3 seconds.

19. The D70’s shutter release is considered “very fast” and the 300D shutter release is only considered “fast”.

20. Nikon's new flash system is second to none.

The hack takes care of some of these but it also voids the warranty. Do you want to by a brand new camera just have to void the warranty to make things work? Not me. With all the err99 faults and shutter problems I would not want to do that. The D70 doesn’t need a hack.

The Nikon wins in the reviews and in my hands. I also have a Canon. Look at dpreview and Imaging Resource which are the two top review sites if you do an online search of digital cameras.

If you want to verify this look at page 20 on the D70 review on dpreview. The 300D simply does not compare to the 70D. Not even close! I am not the only one that thinks so. It is all right here; look at these links.

http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/news/2004/c_gp_e_04.htm

http://www.tipa.com/

lawnmower Senior Member • Posts: 1,826
Let the judges decide.

The verdict is in.

NIKON WINS!

http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/news/2004/c_gp_e_04.htm

Best Consumer Digital SLR Camera: Nikon D70

http://www.tipa.com/

lawnmower Senior Member • Posts: 1,826
The hack will put you on your back.

The hack takes care of some of these but it also voids the warranty. Do you want to by a brand new camera just have to void the warranty to make things work? Not me. With all the err99 faults and shutter problems I would not want to do that. The D70 doesn’t need a hack.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=9111034

lawnmower Senior Member • Posts: 1,826
Re: The hack will put you on your back.

Sorry, let me reword.

The hack takes care of some crippled functions but it also voids the warranty. Do you want to buy a brand new camera and have to void the warranty to make things work? Not me. With all the err99 faults and shutter problems I would not want to do that. The D70 doesn’t need a hack.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=9111034

pajja Regular Member • Posts: 372
Re: Hack not allowed to be posted here...

Posting the link to the firmware hack is not permitted on dpreview. If you use your favorite internet search engine, you are bound to find many sites that will direct you to where you want to go.

marike wrote:

Ed Wrote:
But now, I wonder if I get the best performance / $ ratio
especially now the new firmware hack is available that gives the
camera new features such as ISO 3200 and MLU.

Where is the firmware hack that you mention?

Regards,
Markus Arike

-- hide signature --

Regards,

John
Pittsburgh, PA
USA

ed cheong Contributing Member • Posts: 552
Firmware update

What he meant was the hacked firmware of 300D not for D70.

The D70 may not appreal to a lot on their Jpeg compared to the Canon. But I can tell you, the Canon is not selling even though where I live, they are giving a away a free 75-300 lens free. What Canon will be doing is to introduce a newer model that will pip D70 in its features. Then the whole race be reversed. As for D70 vs 300D, there is no vs. It is a dead comparison. When it comes to electronics, and DSLR is first an electrionic appliance, it is features and latest. The way to compare Canon and Nikon these days is whether the great models keep on coming. I think Nikon has finally got its act totally together. I just hope Nikon can get its act together to fight the Pro DSLR market. The 1D Mk2 is a great canon success. Nikon if they come up with a souped up Pro DSLR within the next few months, then Nikon will have pretty much have won the war for now.

According to Canon, 70% of DSLRs are theirs.

Nikon will keep coming up with more great stuff until they are are 50%.

So D70 users, you are on to the track of great stuff early. Enjoy the rride.

-ED- stick on to your Nikon track. The worse choice is jumping track. You will lose both ends.

-Ed- wrote:

I don't want to get into another heated debate but I was over at
300D forum and I read many "anti D70" comments that attacks many
aspects of the camera especially the "inferior" image quality claim
due to moire and noise. What really bothered me was that no one
was able to defend against those claims. Peacekeeper, Todd, and
Msport had tried but I think they were overpowered by a few
relentless Canonians.

I personally have not experienced such problems. In fact, I am
perfectly happy with D70 and I have printed out a few unbelivable
pictures.

But now, I wonder if I get the best performance / $ ratio
especially now the new firmware hack is available that gives the
camera new features such as ISO 3200 and MLU.

So my question is now if you can return your D70 for a 300D + about
$400 more in your wallet, would you do it?

-- hide signature --

Where there is light, there was darkness.

thomas1973 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,477
Re: Do you still prefer a D70 over a hacked 300D?

-Ed- wrote:

I don't want to get into another heated debate but I was over at
300D forum and I read many "anti D70" comments that attacks many
aspects of the camera especially the "inferior" image quality claim
due to moire and noise.

All reviewers agree both cameras have excellent image quality, and those reviewers who's made the D70 go head to head against the 300D, has found the images to be virtually indistinguishable. Some of them prefer the D70, some the 300D.

IMO, the 300D/10D images are very good and very noise free, but sometimes slightly plastic like. The D70 looks sharpeper and more 'real' to me - it has a more film like look. The same goes for the grain at high ISO, where the uniform film like grain of the D70 looks much more pleasing to me than the 'rainbow' noise of the 300D/10D.

But all these differences are minute, and different people will prefer either camera's pictures for different reasons. Bottom line is they are (more or less) equally good, and whining and screaming about which is 'best' is just meaurebating...

What really bothered me was that no one
was able to defend against those claims. Peacekeeper, Todd, and
Msport had tried but I think they were overpowered by a few
relentless Canonians.

I personally have not experienced such problems. In fact, I am
perfectly happy with D70 and I have printed out a few unbelivable
pictures.

So there's no problem, then

Stop worrying, and go out and take some pictures!

But now, I wonder if I get the best performance / $ ratio

It depends on what you're looking for in a camera. The best performance/$ ratio is arguable in the cheaper 3MP p&s cameras with OK lenses, from the likes of Canon, Nikon and Oly.

especially now the new firmware hack is available that gives the
camera new features such as ISO 3200 and MLU.

ISO 3200 is indirectly obtainable on the D70 by shooting at ISO1600 and underexposing by a stop. Then you correct that underexposure in NC afterwards.

MLU would be nice. Maybe some russian hacker will give the D70 MLU too

So my question is now if you can return your D70 for a 300D + about
$400 more in your wallet, would you do it?

NO. Because the features that attract me most to the D70 cannot be fixed on the 300D by any hack:

  • Instant power on

  • 2 command dials

  • 1/500s flash sync

  • front/rear curtain flash sync

  • faster all round handling (image review, shot to shot time etc.)

These are features that MATTER when shooting, IMO. Other than that, I'm happy for the Canon 300D owners that they got a hack that 'unlocked' the powers of their camera, as the hacks really makes a difference (especially the FEC and MLU).

Both the D70 and the 300D are fine cameras. The 300D paved the way for the sub-$1000 DSLR's, and I have friends who're very happy with it, and they're still happy with it, and the 300D still holds its own after the D70 came out (especially as they lowered the 300D retail price). But for me and my needs, the D70 is still the better camera.

Thomas.

OP -Ed- Regular Member • Posts: 375
Re: where is the firmware hack?

But now, I wonder if I get the best performance / $ ratio
especially now the new firmware hack is available that gives the
camera new features such as ISO 3200 and MLU.

I was refering to the 300D firmware hack.

fjp Veteran Member • Posts: 5,145
Re: Defenders?

Yo_ Dawg wrote:

My only problem so far has been some dust on the sensor.

Why does my dust come and go? How come I haven't read of this happening to others? I have had up to four spots of dust on my sensor, where it appears in every shot where there is a light, uniform background. Then after a while, it just disappears. Right now I have no dust on my sensor, none that shows up in images anyhow.

-- hide signature --

FJP

jkbradshaw Junior Member • Posts: 42
I need to stop

...Steping onto my soapbox

I need to stop reading posts like this -- these internet camera zealots are can be evn more trying than political or religious fanatics. Doing research to get the best for your money is one thing, but trying to inflate your investment and deflate others (to further inflate yours) is just so blah, blah, blah. If you like boxers, wear boxers. If you like the tighty whities, then wear those, but don't spend all your time pulling down other people's pants so you can see and compare. My guess is that people that get too into these posts about the D70 vs the DRebel, especially after they have made their purchase are more interested in collecting the best technology and bragging to their friends then they are about making good images.

Go out and shoot, stop whining and fighting.

Really, I'm not that bitter about the whole thing. Informed consumerism is a pillar of enlightened capitalism, and who doesn't want that? Perhaps I'm just frustrated that I have a camera capable of so much more than I currently am able to take full advantage of -- I have yet to make an image worthy of a 20x30 print. I'll bet I'm not the only one.

-- hide signature --

John

Todd Siegwart Regular Member • Posts: 110
Re: Do you still prefer a D70 over a hacked 300D?

I love the D70. I am simply blown away by the capabilities and image quality. I have nothing against the drebel. I had some AF lenses for Nikon. I had used Nikon SLRs before with satisfaction. I bought a D70.

The battle rages on over on the 300d forum for a multitude of reasons. Some people (daniella) would have you believe you can't get a good picture form the camera. Obviously not the case. Look at Torwong Salwala's (howhow) images from Asia. Simply stunning.

It's complete sillyness. The best piece of technology you can get for better picutres is a good alarm clock. If you go to a time and place where the good images are, your Nikon D70 will capture them.

On moire, I won't deny it happens. Although infrequently, if I were a architecture photographer, I'd buy the drebel. But, why the hell would I ever take picture of a building. I'd rather look at Phil's crayon picts than building images. But that's just my taste.

Todd

-Ed- wrote:

I don't want to get into another heated debate but I was over at
300D forum and I read many "anti D70" comments that attacks many
aspects of the camera especially the "inferior" image quality claim
due to moire and noise. What really bothered me was that no one
was able to defend against those claims. Peacekeeper, Todd, and
Msport had tried but I think they were overpowered by a few
relentless Canonians.

I personally have not experienced such problems. In fact, I am
perfectly happy with D70 and I have printed out a few unbelivable
pictures.

But now, I wonder if I get the best performance / $ ratio
especially now the new firmware hack is available that gives the
camera new features such as ISO 3200 and MLU.

So my question is now if you can return your D70 for a 300D + about
$400 more in your wallet, would you do it?

PaulyOly Veteran Member • Posts: 7,723
I prefer canon lenses.......

-Ed- wrote:

I don't want to get into another heated debate but I was over at
300D forum and I read many "anti D70" comments that attacks many
aspects of the camera especially the "inferior" image quality claim
due to moire and noise. What really bothered me was that no one
was able to defend against those claims. Peacekeeper, Todd, and
Msport had tried but I think they were overpowered by a few
relentless Canonians.

I personally have not experienced such problems. In fact, I am
perfectly happy with D70 and I have printed out a few unbelivable
pictures.

But now, I wonder if I get the best performance / $ ratio
especially now the new firmware hack is available that gives the
camera new features such as ISO 3200 and MLU.

So my question is now if you can return your D70 for a 300D + about
$400 more in your wallet, would you do it?

I could give a rat's @ss about the camera, but what can i put on the D70 that will give me 400mm and excellent image quality and please don't say the sigma 50-500, tried it didn't like it. I'm thinking of a lens that you can handhold that cost less than the $1500 and please post some examples. In the lower mm range the differences in image quality is probably a toss up and depends on what you prefer and i'm not talking about the kits lenses. No need for 100% crops with me.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

Mikhail Bogdanov Veteran Member • Posts: 5,829
Re: I prefer canon lenses.......

I could give a rat's @ss about the camera, but what can i put on
the D70 that will give me 400mm and excellent image quality and
please don't say the sigma 50-500, tried it didn't like it.

Check 80-400VR, at 400mm stopped down a little bit isn't too bad.

PaulyOly Veteran Member • Posts: 7,723
Re: I prefer canon lenses.......

Mikhail Bogdanov wrote:

I could give a rat's @ss about the camera, but what can i put on
the D70 that will give me 400mm and excellent image quality and
please don't say the sigma 50-500, tried it didn't like it.

Check 80-400VR, at 400mm stopped down a little bit isn't too bad.

I have checked, looked at many pictures taken with that lens on a d100, i'm not impressed. Please someone impress me.

lawnmower Senior Member • Posts: 1,826
I like wide lenses and the Nikon selection

is better with the 10.5DX fisheye and the 12-24DX. Both great lenses. Canon has no equivalent and the Sigma's don't seem to be quite as good. They both have long lenses.

Todd Siegwart Regular Member • Posts: 110
"please someone impress me"

I have check many of your threads, i'm not impressed.

Todd

PaulyOly wrote:

Mikhail Bogdanov wrote:

I could give a rat's @ss about the camera, but what can i put on
the D70 that will give me 400mm and excellent image quality and
please don't say the sigma 50-500, tried it didn't like it.

Check 80-400VR, at 400mm stopped down a little bit isn't too bad.

I have checked, looked at many pictures taken with that lens on a
d100, i'm not impressed. Please someone impress me.

Mikhail Bogdanov Veteran Member • Posts: 5,829
Re: I prefer canon lenses.......

I believe you are right - Nikon doesn't have anything similar to 400/5.6L. Maybe 300/4 or 180/2.8 with TCs could do the trick (never had those).
Cheers

Jeff Kohn Veteran Member • Posts: 4,855
Re: Defenders?

fjp wrote:

Yo_ Dawg wrote:

My only problem so far has been some dust on the sensor.

Why does my dust come and go? How come I haven't read of this
happening to others? I have had up to four spots of dust on my
sensor, where it appears in every shot where there is a light,
uniform background. Then after a while, it just disappears. Right
now I have no dust on my sensor, none that shows up in images
anyhow.

The dust is more likely to show up at small apertures like F16 or F22 where as you might not see them at all at F3.5, for instance.

Another possibility is that the dust was on your lens/filter and you've since cleaned it?

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