Pretec 12 GB CF - just $14,900 ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Started May 26, 2004 | Discussions
Robert Holloway
Robert Holloway Veteran Member • Posts: 3,908
Re: I think it is wonderful.

OK Sean I hear you
But as CEO of a company I'd tell my team to buy multiple 4 gig cards
and change them every few hours

Rob

Sean Keegan wrote:
Who would want to worry about 53 CF cards! Uggh! No thanks! Believe
me, even at this price there are going to be plenty of sales. Most
likely magazines and companies of various types. To some companies
the benifits of 12gigs in 1 card far outweigh the costs involved,
and that price is a drop in the bucket on what their equiptment
budgets are each year. These cards are not targeted at the common
consumer like you and I. Besides give it a couple years and the
price will be much more managable. Don't get all bent out of shape
just because you cannot afford it. There are plenty who can. We
should thank them because it is they who will drive the price down
eventually. I remember when one 3D workstation SGI computer cost
over 100,000 (and not too long ago either... like 5 years ago). Now
you can get a laptop for $3,000 with the same and even greater
capabilities thanks to NVidia and ATI etc. But that workstation was
not targeting average 3D users.... they are targeting the
movie/television ad companies that have the budget to afford these
things.

Regards,
Sean

Stealth wrote:

for the price of that card i can buy 53 - 1 gb Lexar 40x cards

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megapixelmonk_ Forum Member • Posts: 86
Uhm. 1 gig cards or 4 gig cards, then a 40gb iPod. (nt)

I said, no text.

Robert Holloway wrote:
OK Sean I hear you
But as CEO of a company I'd tell my team to buy multiple 4 gig cards
and change them every few hours

Rob

Sean Keegan wrote:
Who would want to worry about 53 CF cards! Uggh! No thanks! Believe
me, even at this price there are going to be plenty of sales. Most
likely magazines and companies of various types. To some companies
the benifits of 12gigs in 1 card far outweigh the costs involved,
and that price is a drop in the bucket on what their equiptment
budgets are each year. These cards are not targeted at the common
consumer like you and I. Besides give it a couple years and the
price will be much more managable. Don't get all bent out of shape
just because you cannot afford it. There are plenty who can. We
should thank them because it is they who will drive the price down
eventually. I remember when one 3D workstation SGI computer cost
over 100,000 (and not too long ago either... like 5 years ago). Now
you can get a laptop for $3,000 with the same and even greater
capabilities thanks to NVidia and ATI etc. But that workstation was
not targeting average 3D users.... they are targeting the
movie/television ad companies that have the budget to afford these
things.

Regards,
Sean

Stealth wrote:

for the price of that card i can buy 53 - 1 gb Lexar 40x cards

DominiqueGrubestedt Regular Member • Posts: 189
It´s always difficult to see

what lies ahead...we should be certain of one thing and that is that advances will continue even faster. I just checked the companie´s Newsrelated topics from 1999 when they beat their own record with the then new world´s largest 128 MB CF+ card...

It´s always funny how we people limit ourselves and think "it´s impossible", meanwhile people that imagine and think it´s possible make huge bucks on trying to do the impossible.

If not the wealthy companies (that we should thank for pushing prices down on older products by buying the latest toys) then there are always exccentric enthousiasts that want the latest...I know in my little town in Sweden there is a guy that always buys the latest digital gadget (ie 1d, 1Ds, MkII, DC 14n, Phase One digital backs) and he´s just playing arround aroused by having the latest and even thrilled of paying the prices...I usually spot his toys for sale on the web...highly depreciated some months later! After all...he has the cash...only time will stop him...:)

Well, I imagine the S3 creating the 24MB files...getting supased by the next Eos and Kodak (perhaps Nikon too?) and all of a sudden we have files approx 50 MB (in RAW), built in huge buffers to not loose the speed, better compressing engines so the 50 MB would have equaled 70-90MB files measured with todays technology...eventually new lenses that resolve more than 120 lines/mm will hit the accessoiries and the game never really ends...

...or does anyone believe it will ever end?

I love the 12 GB news...amazing...it means i can soon get some really cheap 2 GB cards for my "out of date 1D" that takes great pictures just as my Hasselblad 500C still does although it was made in 1969 I believe...

Would I be crazy to say that we will have memories hitting 1200 GB in the next 5 years? (portable...Xd, CF or XX format). (factor of 10 in 5 years so far!!! 128 MB to 12 Gb in 5 years no?)

Well I hope this forum survives the internet advances, remains an interesting media for exchange of thoughts end experiences so I could come back and laugh at my predictions for the 1200 BG cards...by that time everyone will know that tha traditional "bit" has bin replaced by the Nucleicomputer which can store values of 0 or 1 and 0 and 1 at the same time...totally changing the interpretation of memory and bits...

I wonder if SLR will still be manufactured? How long before the mirrors get replaced by perfect LCDs so no moving parts will be necessary in the camera body?

Please tell me I´m crazy, but I imagine NASA buying these 12 GB cards for their space travels (if they don´t have anything larger already)...once the space shuttle program will be back on feet...:)

The only thing that scares me is that I can´t even imagine what will really happen and tumble between impossible predictions or limitless bla bla...too bad only time will tell for sure.

Sorry for my futuristic diarea Dom

Lin Evans
Lin Evans Forum Pro • Posts: 17,214
Really -Don't laugh...

Joseph S. Wisniewski wrote:

=VALOR= wrote:

Oh man.

I was laughing SO HARD when I read this news. The Protec guys must
really get their valves checked. No one in their right minds would
pay that kind of money for a measely 12 GB CF card.

You would be amazed. Digital camera owners are not the early
adopters for large capacity cards. They're used in embedded
systems. Sure, Nikon and Canon and Sony will buy one or two now, to
verify that there won't be any problems in a year or two when the
cards drop in price.

A few years ago, I built a fleet of data gathering computers. Each
one used a pair of 440 meg cards (the biggest on the market at the
time) and they cost either $1800 or $2800 each. Now 440 meg is
worth about $40.

I can see something that needs speed reliability hooking 6 of these
cards to a 6 port raid controller card, configuring it for a 4
drive raid 5 with 2 hot spares, and having a near unstopable,
silent, low power, vibration immune 36 gig storage system that
wouldn't quit until 3 of the cards had failed. Drop it onto a
mountain top, or to the bottom of the sea, where the cost of
replacing it would far exceed the $100,000 cost of building it.

-- hide signature --

A cyberstalker told me not to post anymore...
So I'm posting even more!

Ciao!

Joe

Historically speaking, $15K for a 12 gigabyte card is cheap fare. I remember a few years ago when RAM for my computers cost $500 per megabyte. Let's see - that's what, about 7 million for 14 gigabytes?

Lin

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Steve Bingham
Steve Bingham Forum Pro • Posts: 24,843
What????

They must be out of their f*(^#@ minds!

Steve Bingham
http://www.dustylens.com

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photogeek Senior Member • Posts: 1,391
I paid less for my car

Sure, I bought it used, but still... Sometimes it helps to compare these things to something of known value. I know a dude who paid less than that for BOTH of his cars.

It's amazing what they can come up with to rid a rich fool of his money. It's just a piece of silicon, there's no way in heck it costs $15K. They'll maybe sell three of these cards, but that's about it until their price goes down to below 2K.

gasdive New Member • Posts: 7
Clever marketing, clever price

If you were first to market with this size then you'd be crazy to market it any other way. Say only 0.01% of users would buy at this price (someone mentioned NASA, someone else mentioned the camera makers, let me add to that some deep water inspections where it may cost close to that per minute to be on site and reducing time lost for card swaps could be significant).

So it's pretty clear that the first few off the production line can be sold for 15000USD. If you were selling a car and you knew you could get 15k for it would you sell it for 200 dollars?

So after a couple of months when that market is all mopped up and everyone who Has to have one has bought one, then you can drop the price to 5k and pick up everyone who really really really wants one. Couple of months later it's 2k, next year it's 1k, three years from now it's 200 dollars.

Almost everything gets marketed this way. Remeber the price of a CD burner? No, not then, think back a bit further. I remeber when there were only 3 in the world and they cost 100s of millions of dollars. I'm sure that you could now find a working one on a rubbish tip with a bit of careful searching...

Cheers Jason =:)

gasdive New Member • Posts: 7
Re: RAID CF? Now there is an idea! (NT)

Why not raid the CF in the camera? Have 3-10 slots in the camera (SD might be a better format). Raid 5 them together and never loose an image to card failure. You'd also get read and write speeds 2-9 times faster. The camera could be 6 times quicker between bursts. The review of the olympus c-8080 gives a wait of 61 seconds to flush the buffer before you can shoot again after a high res burst of 5 shots. It would be nice to drop that to 6 seconds.

Cheers Jason =:)

synp Contributing Member • Posts: 611
I disagree

Capitalized ROFL with lots of exclamation marks is rude and has no place in polite forum discussions.

Neither is suggesting that the Protec people need to "have their valves checked".

While I'm not rushing to buy one of these, I'd sooner walk around with 12 1GB cards then carry a laptop with me. YMMV, but there's no excuse for this kind of ridicule. If "==VALOR==" (even his handle is capitalized) can dish it out, maybe he should be able to take it.

jase wrote:

I think the open mind comment was gratuitously patronising and
unnecessary.

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synp Contributing Member • Posts: 611
Re: I paid less for my car

Now just open your trunk, and fill it up with as many of these Protec cards as are going to fit.

Just imagine how many pictures your car could carry then.

Or, for a cheaper solution, fill it up with 50GB tape cartridges. Driving around with that, you'll have more bandwidth than any ADSL connection.

photogeek wrote:

Sure, I bought it used, but still... Sometimes it helps to compare
these things to something of known value. I know a dude who
paid less than that for BOTH of his cars.

It's amazing what they can come up with to rid a rich fool of his
money. It's just a piece of silicon, there's no way in heck it
costs $15K. They'll maybe sell three of these cards, but that's
about it until their price goes down to below 2K.

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Microsoft Lumia 950 XL
rigel_ Forum Member • Posts: 92
value

That's what is called value pricing. It offers to the buyers more value than $15k, and of course it offers value to the company who sells it. everybody is happy. simple.

Rigel

Steve Bingham w
rote:

They must be out of their f*(^#@ minds!

Steve Bingham
http://www.dustylens.com

synp Contributing Member • Posts: 611
How about diskless systems

I can see things like this being used in diskless systems. With a 12GB they can even run Windows in a very small box, not to mention Linux. Nothing to do with photography, but then there are other needs, like a small-office machine with a combination firewall, vpn, dhcp, mail gateway, even an FTP server.

=VALOR= wrote:

Oh man.

I was laughing SO HARD when I read this news. The Protec guys must
really get their valves checked. No one in their right minds would
pay that kind of money for a measely 12 GB CF card.

Id rather buy a light-weight laptop with CF reader and take it with
me. It even ads the bonus of having ant entire computer at your
disposal.

Absolutely ridiculous.

-- hide signature --
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Joseph S Wisniewski Forum Pro • Posts: 34,130
Fortunatly, they're not...

Sean Keegan wrote:

I hope these 12 gig cards have some blinding fast transfer rates!
at 6mb/Sec of the average USB 2.0 CF card reader it would take 33
minutes to complete a transfer! Yikes! Better not even attempt it
with USB 1... it would take over 3 hours!

Actually, in an embedded system, you connect the cards to an ATA port (just like inside the camera) not a USB port.

So, you're talking about 12 meg/sec (80x) cards. The configuration I described put 4 cards in a raid 5. Four cards are transfering data simultaneously, 25% of the data is striped error correction codes, so that gives you 36 megabytes/sec, sustained.

With zero seek time.

Although one typically doesn't run into an embedded system that needs 36 megabytes/sec.

-- hide signature --

A cyberstalker told me not to post anymore...
So I'm posting even more!

Ciao!

Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

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jase
jase Contributing Member • Posts: 624
Re: I disagree

Sorry, you aren't actually making any sense... VALOR made a comment on what seemed like silly pricing his 'ROFL' is not rude, it is an exclamation of incredulity which is fine, as is commenting on company policy.

synp wrote:
snip > While I'm not rushing to buy one of these, I'd sooner walk around

with 12 1GB cards then carry a laptop with me.

So would I.

no excuse for this kind of ridicule. If "==VALOR==" (even his
handle is capitalized) can dish it out, maybe he should be able to
take it.

Now you are playing games, the open mind comment added nothing except insult. That's it. It wasn't necessary, it didn't need to be said your well he deserved to be patronised or insulted because he spells his name differently and makes fun of company policy is just childish.

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photogeek Senior Member • Posts: 1,391
Not sure what you're getting at

If I want to store terabytes of pictures I can write them to 300GB hard drives that are available everywhere for cheap. Or to 300GB tapes if we're talking about long-term archival storage.

If, on the other hand, I want to use something to take tons of pictures at a sports event, I'll simply buy a couple of 40GB storage units and 2-3 high speed 2GB flash cards. Problem solved.

The point was that this card is beyond any reason in terms of pricing, and that's not the wisest marketing thing to do.

DominiqueGrubestedt Regular Member • Posts: 189
Re: How about diskless systems

Exactly as stated above by "Valor".

Breaking these barriers is very important and can lead to many sideuses not only digitalphoto...

bu ti still think the pricing is correct and its funny that we never learn: I mean Canon used to sell the old 2 Mp D6000 for approx 2500$...haha. it´s exactly the same...people new then that the 2 Mp would be close to 35 mm detail not to mention the medium format BUT it was exactly the studios using medium format and so that bought those "then overpriced" toys...

this will never end...sooon the new BIODE based screens will be avaiable and the will cost millions at first...later on we will cover wall with them or looking at something different...question is; when!?

I sure would like to hear from 12 GB buye why they bought it when som many other solutions are available at more costeffective levels!

Please let us know someone...:)

Dom

synp wrote:
I can see things like this being used in diskless systems. With a
12GB they can even run Windows in a very small box, not to mention
Linux. Nothing to do with photography, but then there are other
needs, like a small-office machine with a combination firewall,
vpn, dhcp, mail gateway, even an FTP server.

=VALOR= wrote:

Oh man.

I was laughing SO HARD when I read this news. The Protec guys must
really get their valves checked. No one in their right minds would
pay that kind of money for a measely 12 GB CF card.

Id rather buy a light-weight laptop with CF reader and take it with
me. It even ads the bonus of having ant entire computer at your
disposal.

Absolutely ridiculous.

-- hide signature --
Sean Keegan Senior Member • Posts: 2,994
Re: Fortunatly, they're not...

Wow, now that is cool! Thanks for the info Joseph!

Regards,
Sean

Joseph S. Wisniewski wrote:

Sean Keegan wrote:

I hope these 12 gig cards have some blinding fast transfer rates!
at 6mb/Sec of the average USB 2.0 CF card reader it would take 33
minutes to complete a transfer! Yikes! Better not even attempt it
with USB 1... it would take over 3 hours!

Actually, in an embedded system, you connect the cards to an ATA
port (just like inside the camera) not a USB port.

So, you're talking about 12 meg/sec (80x) cards. The configuration
I described put 4 cards in a raid 5. Four cards are transfering
data simultaneously, 25% of the data is striped error correction
codes, so that gives you 36 megabytes/sec, sustained.

With zero seek time.

Although one typically doesn't run into an embedded system that
needs 36 megabytes/sec.

-- hide signature --

A cyberstalker told me not to post anymore...
So I'm posting even more!

Ciao!

Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

Sean Keegan Senior Member • Posts: 2,994
Re: Really -Don't laugh...

Yeah, that is if they are all 1mb modules which were cheap back then at 500. I remember the day when 2 64mb modules cost 180,000! Or 16.9 milliion dollars for 12 gigs!

Regards,
Sean

Lin Evans wrote:

Joseph S. Wisniewski wrote:

=VALOR= wrote:

Oh man.

I was laughing SO HARD when I read this news. The Protec guys must
really get their valves checked. No one in their right minds would
pay that kind of money for a measely 12 GB CF card.

You would be amazed. Digital camera owners are not the early
adopters for large capacity cards. They're used in embedded
systems. Sure, Nikon and Canon and Sony will buy one or two now, to
verify that there won't be any problems in a year or two when the
cards drop in price.

A few years ago, I built a fleet of data gathering computers. Each
one used a pair of 440 meg cards (the biggest on the market at the
time) and they cost either $1800 or $2800 each. Now 440 meg is
worth about $40.

I can see something that needs speed reliability hooking 6 of these
cards to a 6 port raid controller card, configuring it for a 4
drive raid 5 with 2 hot spares, and having a near unstopable,
silent, low power, vibration immune 36 gig storage system that
wouldn't quit until 3 of the cards had failed. Drop it onto a
mountain top, or to the bottom of the sea, where the cost of
replacing it would far exceed the $100,000 cost of building it.

-- hide signature --

A cyberstalker told me not to post anymore...
So I'm posting even more!

Ciao!

Joe

Historically speaking, $15K for a 12 gigabyte card is cheap fare. I
remember a few years ago when RAM for my computers cost $500 per
megabyte. Let's see - that's what, about 7 million for 14
gigabytes?

Lin

Sean Keegan Senior Member • Posts: 2,994
Re: Uhm. 1 gig cards or 4 gig cards, then a 40gb iPod. (nt)

megapixelmonk_ wrote:

I said, no text.

Yeah, but your (nt) got cut off by the format of this forum, hehe

Regards,
Sean

Sean Keegan Senior Member • Posts: 2,994
Re: Clever marketing, clever price

I guess people forget the days when DVD players cost $10,000 dollars, and what could you even play on them at the time? 15 titles? Yet they sold. How about the first Walkman.... anyone remember what that went for when it came out? $1,000?

REgards,
Sean

gasdive wrote:

If you were first to market with this size then you'd be crazy to
market it any other way. Say only 0.01% of users would buy at this
price (someone mentioned NASA, someone else mentioned the camera
makers, let me add to that some deep water inspections where it may
cost close to that per minute to be on site and reducing time lost
for card swaps could be significant).

So it's pretty clear that the first few off the production line
can be sold for 15000USD. If you were selling a car and you knew
you could get 15k for it would you sell it for 200 dollars?

So after a couple of months when that market is all mopped up and
everyone who Has to have one has bought one, then you can drop
the price to 5k and pick up everyone who really really really wants
one. Couple of months later it's 2k, next year it's 1k, three
years from now it's 200 dollars.

Almost everything gets marketed this way. Remeber the price of a
CD burner? No, not then, think back a bit further. I remeber when
there were only 3 in the world and they cost 100s of millions of
dollars. I'm sure that you could now find a working one on a
rubbish tip with a bit of careful searching...

Cheers Jason =:)

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