Shocking - G500 outperforms the 7i

Started Oct 31, 2003 | Discussions
OP Jared Hunter Veteran Member • Posts: 4,493
Re: Let's hope Konica retains the Minolta engineers...

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Jared Hunter wrote:

I sure hope Minolta retained Konica's engineers and software
developers after the merger...

Actually, it's the other way around -- Konica acquired Minolta.
Let's hope that Konica retains the Minolta Engineers.

Why? They've done such a poor job. Konica should fire the Minolta engineers and have Konica staff rewrite the noise/image processing algorithms. The G500's noise suppression and detail retention characteristics would make for a killer camera if implemented in a D7 or A series Minolta.

TomCrisp Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: For those that value product over process

It's also worth noting that the new Rolls would set you back about $350K, for which you might otherwise buy a different car for every day of the week and every purpose. And have something left for a g500 and ...

If you can have two or three cameras, you probably don't want the same capablilities in all of them (portability, manual controls, lens options etc) Why would you?

That said, for most shopping decisions the side-by-side comparison between two (or ten) competitive models is most useful (the New York Times reviews the new Rolls Sunday - next to the new Maybach by Mercedes). But comparing quite different models has its uses - especially when such a comparison turns up a surprising result. (Wouldn't YOU be surprised if a Z1 actually folded up and fit into your pocket?!) So if a slick little number comes along and shows it's far from a boutique camera, and can turn out results like a big boy in some cases, that's worth knowing.

Of course, it's the nut behind the viewfinder, as they say, that is the key piece of equipment.

Tom

jimr Forum Pro • Posts: 11,405
Re: G500 and Jim

Jim, I must compilment you on your superb series of postings. You always come across as being very thoughtful and well informed. Thank you! I am still awaiting information about the G400. I called Konica-Minolta to find out if the flash range spech was an error. I am waiting for them to get back to me. I understand that the G500 is very fast and that the AF functions well in low light....correct? If that is the case, I wonder if the G400's performance enhancements will be real world or throretical. We'll see. Once these issues are cleared up, I plan to purchase the G500 or G400.

By the way, if you look at the owner opinions of the G500 on this web site, you'll find some rediculous postings that seem so divorced from reality (the very negative one's). Take care. Keep up the good 'work'!

jimr Forum Pro • Posts: 11,405
Re: G500 and Jim

By the way, the G400 is notably thinner and somewhat lighter than the G500. Have you found any tests of the G400 yet? I still don't know the release date.

Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,342
Re: G500 and Jim

James Rosenzweig wrote:

By the way, the G400 is notably thinner and somewhat lighter than
the G500. Have you found any tests of the G400 yet? I still don't
know the release date.

No -- I haven't seen any release dates. The camera is also being marketed as the Konica Revio KD-420z in some parts of the world (introduced at a recent show under the Konica label in Greece).

My biggest two concerns would be noise (smaller, denser 1/2.5" sensor), and flash range (weaker flash compared to the larger G500).

The autofocus speed (if it's as fast as advertised) should make the G400 a Very Fast camera though (autofocus times). If Konica-Minolta can get good image quality from the smaller sensor, then it will probably make a great camera in most shooting conditions. It also has a few features (for example: exposure bracketing, aperture priority), that were not included in the G500 firmware (although I'm still hoping for a G500 firmware upgrade, but I'm not "holdiing my breath").

Again, my main concern would be the G400's weaker flash (common on many of the ultracompacts). Noise doesn't bother me as much (I'd rather have a little noise in a photo, than blur from camera shake/subject movement, so as long as it's not too bad at higher ISO speeds, then it will probably make a good camera for most conditions.

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Jim Dawson Veteran Member • Posts: 3,802
Where could I find that comparison...

where the G500 "buries" the A80 and S400? I have a EOS 1D and want a pocketable P&S. I was considering an A80 or S400, but would look at a Minolta if it, in fact, "buries" those two.

Or is this just Canon bashing or Minolta promoting.

Thanks,
Jim

Greg Henry wrote:

Well, you are paying for different things. The G500 take
incredibly good photos (I just bought one) and I was surprised at
how well it does. Still, it doesn't have all of the manual
controls the A1 has, the zoom range, ability to use filters, etc.
They are designed for two completely different groups of people,
really. Not sure it's fair to compare them.

Now, compare the G500 to others in it's category like the Canon A80
or 400... it buries them.

Greg

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Canon 1D, and G-III QL (yes - film)

Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,342
Re: Where could I find that comparison...

Jim Dawson wrote:

where the G500 "buries" the A80 and S400? I have a EOS 1D and want
a pocketable P&S. I was considering an A80 or S400, but would look
at a Minolta if it, in fact, "buries" those two.

Or is this just Canon bashing or Minolta promoting.

Jim:

I think I probably got the first one, out of any of the posters here (I bought the Japanese Model Konica KD-510z in mid July).

I seriously doubt that it "buries them". However, it does take nice photos -- especially for a subcompact model. I'm quite pleased with mine.

There are two forum posters here that have owned both the Canon S400, and the KD-510z (G500).

Note that the Konica engineers actually developed this camera as the Konica Revio KD-510z (as it is still being marketed in Asia and Europe). In the U.S., after the Konica-Minolta merger, a decision was made to introduce it in the U.S. as the Minolta DiMAGE G500. Other than the logo, the two cameras are identical.

See my response to someone comparing the S400 and the G500 in this thread (it points to the posts with quotes and links from users of both cameras).

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=6556520

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rick Veteran Member • Posts: 3,539
Re: Shocking - G500 If they could add a 10x lens

to this camera I would buy it immediately

Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,342
Re: Shocking - G500 If they could add a 10x lens

rick wrote:

to this camera I would buy it immediately

Unfortunately, all cameras are a compromise. You have to find the best balance of physical size, flash range, user control of image processing, light gathering capability of the lens, focal range, etc.

I wanted something small enough to fit in my pocket, and I deliberately sought out, and found a Japanese Model of the Konica Kd-510z, within two weeks after it was released in Japan.

I reviewed lots of cameras before taking this step, deciding that the Konica was the best for my needs. So, I bought a Japanese Camera with no warranty, just to get a pocketable camera this good.

If Konica would take the same technology, and build it into a larger camera, with a fast lens with greater focal range; I have no doubt that it would be a "winner".

Perhaps, now that Konica and Minolta have merged, they'll take the image processing technology from the Konica line, and incorporate it into larger models -- taking the best from both Konica and Minolta engineering for future projects.

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rick Veteran Member • Posts: 3,539
Re: Shocking - G500 If they could add a 10x lens

Jim Cockfield wrote:

rick wrote:

to this camera I would buy it immediately

Unfortunately, all cameras are a compromise. You have to find the
best balance of physical size, flash range, user control of image
processing, light gathering capability of the lens, focal range,
etc.

I wanted something small enough to fit in my pocket, and I
deliberately sought out, and found a Japanese Model of the Konica
Kd-510z, within two weeks after it was released in Japan.

I reviewed lots of cameras before taking this step, deciding that
the Konica was the best for my needs. So, I bought a Japanese
Camera with no warranty, just to get a pocketable camera this good.

If Konica would take the same technology, and build it into a
larger camera, with a fast lens with greater focal range; I have no
doubt that it would be a "winner".

Perhaps, now that Konica and Minolta have merged, they'll take the
image processing technology from the Konica line, and incorporate
it into larger models -- taking the best from both Konica and
Minolta engineering for future projects.

So JIM, if you don'tmind telling me how large is this in inches wide? (510)

About if Konica and Minolta would only make this a bigger camera with faster lens , isn't that the A1? No ? Sure I would rather have 10 x but isn't the A1 faster? I would be satisfied with a s404 with faster lens. To me the s404 and oly 4000 series same cameras..slow shutter . Anyway jim your kd510 focusses fast doesn't it?

Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,342
It's small

rick wrote:

So JIM, if you don'tmind telling me how large is this in inches
wide? (510)

Rick, it's 3.7 x 2.2 x 1.2 inches. I carry mine in my front pants pocket (even when wearing my tightest jeans, it fits).

About if Konica and Minolta would only make this a bigger camera
with faster lens , isn't that the A1? No ?

No. I don't believe that the Konica engineers were involved in the development of the A1. It was a Minolta Project.

Sure I would rather
have 10 x but isn't the A1 faster? I would be satisfied with a
s404 with faster lens. To me the s404 and oly 4000 series same
cameras..slow shutter . Anyway jim your kd510 focusses fast doesn't
it?

I've been quite pleased with the autofocus. It takes around 1 second total (autofocus + shutter lag), regardless of focal length or lighting conditons (even in virtual darkness, focus times don't change).

I'd really like to know Konica's secret on the autofocus algorithms (only some programmer in Japan probably knows for sure). LOL

In very dark conditions, it does warn you (with a blinking light by the viewfinder). But, the photos still come out in focus.

I've taken photos at closer ranges in a dark room (with the light warning me that light was too low), and focus was perfect. I've taken photos at objects further away in a dark room, with the same thing -- photo focused perfectly.

So, I'm speculating that in very low light conditions, the camera is warning you, but still focusing on any contrast it can find in the frame. It never "hunts", and the autofocus lag does not increase in dark conditions.

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Jim Dawson Veteran Member • Posts: 3,802
Re: Where could I find that comparison...

Thanks, Jim.

I hope its not too long until the G400 is out, it looks like a real contender as well. My biggest gripe with all the P&S is focus time and shutter lag and Minolta claims to have improved that in the G400.

Jim

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Jim Dawson wrote:

where the G500 "buries" the A80 and S400? I have a EOS 1D and want
a pocketable P&S. I was considering an A80 or S400, but would look
at a Minolta if it, in fact, "buries" those two.

Or is this just Canon bashing or Minolta promoting.

Jim:

I think I probably got the first one, out of any of the posters
here (I bought the Japanese Model Konica KD-510z in mid July).

I seriously doubt that it "buries them". However, it does take
nice photos -- especially for a subcompact model. I'm quite
pleased with mine.

There are two forum posters here that have owned both the Canon
S400, and the KD-510z (G500).

Note that the Konica engineers actually developed this camera as
the Konica Revio KD-510z (as it is still being marketed in Asia and
Europe). In the U.S., after the Konica-Minolta merger, a decision
was made to introduce it in the U.S. as the Minolta DiMAGE G500.
Other than the logo, the two cameras are identical.

See my response to someone comparing the S400 and the G500 in this
thread (it points to the posts with quotes and links from users of
both cameras).

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=6556520

-- hide signature --

Canon 1D, A80, and G-III QL (yes - film)

TomCrisp Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: It's small

Jim Cockfield wrote:

In very dark conditions, it does warn you (with a blinking light by
the viewfinder). But, the photos still come out in focus.

You've got that right, Jim. Last night I was at a club and shooting almost blind - nothing on the screen at all but silhouettes of dark against less-dark ... and every shot was sharp as can be. And the self-adjusting flash is a boon. Bright enough to light a subject 15 feet or more away, but not overpowering a subject at arm's length.
Tom

Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,342
Neat, huh? I still wonder how they did it

Tom Crisp wrote:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

In very dark conditions, it does warn you (with a blinking light by
the viewfinder). But, the photos still come out in focus.

You've got that right, Jim. Last night I was at a club and shooting
almost blind - nothing on the screen at all but silhouettes of dark
against less-dark ... and every shot was sharp as can be. And the
self-adjusting flash is a boon. Bright enough to light a subject 15
feet or more away, but not overpowering a subject at arm's length.
Tom

It's the best darn autofocus system I've used to date (despite it's lack of a focus assist lamp), and this is my 7th Digital Camera. Ditto for the flash. I love the way it "throttles down" at closer ranges (which also allows much faster recycle times, when you're not shooting at something 16 feet away). LOL

I don't think you'll find a better balance of physical size, user control of parameters used more often, camera speed, flash strength, and image quality in a pocketable camera -- and it's "directly from the camera" photos are good enough to match or exceed the much larger models.

At under $400.00, I think it's a "steal"

My only major "niggle" is Redeye (which you're going to have in any camera this small, since the flash will be close to the lens). But, having owned Nikons in the past, I'm pretty good at correcting it in software.

Besides, I shoot with Redeye Correction turned off anyway.. IMO, it "spoils" facial expressions when a preflash fires. So, I just correct in software when it occurs.

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