1Ds Image Format Question..

Started Sep 3, 2003 | Discussions
David Perkins Regular Member • Posts: 496
1Ds Image Format Question..

When shooting Raw+JPG with the 1Ds, do you get a .tif and .jpg like the 1D or do you get a .crw and .thm like the D60?
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Jim Pugh Regular Member • Posts: 195
Re: 1Ds Image Format Question..

.tif & jpeg

David Perkins wrote:

When shooting Raw+JPG with the 1Ds, do you get a .tif and .jpg like
the 1D or do you get a .crw and .thm like the D60?
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christophe-metairie Forum Member • Posts: 55
tiff is not tiff ...

you have a tiff and a jpeg , but the tiff is raw...

Jim Pugh wrote:
.tif & jpeg

David Perkins wrote:

When shooting Raw+JPG with the 1Ds, do you get a .tif and .jpg like
the 1D or do you get a .crw and .thm like the D60?
--
http://www.pbase.com/perkinsd
http://www.perkins-photo.com

Ken Phillips Forum Pro • Posts: 16,364
Of course the tiff is a tiff ...

... as tiff isn't really an image format; you could always put any sort of data into it, including a jpeg! And Canon does put a little bitmap in there ... which you can edit in PhotoShop ... thus losing the extra data, which is the raw!
Ken

christophe metairie wrote:
you have a tiff and a jpeg , but the tiff is raw...

Jim Pugh wrote:
.tif & jpeg

David Perkins wrote:

When shooting Raw+JPG with the 1Ds, do you get a .tif and .jpg like
the 1D or do you get a .crw and .thm like the D60?
--
http://www.pbase.com/perkinsd
http://www.perkins-photo.com

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Mike Fulton Senior Member • Posts: 1,480
Except when it's not.

Ken Phillips wrote:

... as tiff isn't really an image format; you could always put any
sort of data into it, including a jpeg! And Canon does put a little
bitmap in there ... which you can edit in PhotoShop ... thus losing
the extra data, which is the raw!
Ken

Actually, TIFF absolutely is an image format, in fact the name is an acronym for TAGGED IMAGE FILE FORMAT.

There is a very detailed specification for how TIFF files are supposed to be put together. This specification is flexible enough to support a wide variety of different image types. The image in a TIFF file could be 1-bit, 4-bit, 8-bit, 16-bit, 24-bit, 48-bit, compressed, non-compressed, JPEG-compressed, LZH-compressed, and so forth. You can even have multiple images within the same file, each in a different format.

In fact, the specification is flexible enough that most applications really only support a fairly small subset of the whole thing.

It would be possible to put raw image sensor data into a valid TIFF file. Applications that otherwise handle TIFF wouldn't know what the data meant, but it could still be a validly constructed TIFF file.

But that's not what Canon is doing.

They aren't making a valid TIFF file with raw sensor data. The ".tif" files they create DO NOT follow the TIFF specification at all. They're simply applying the ".tif" filename extension to a file that really should have a ".crw" extension.

Mike

John Mason
John Mason Veteran Member • Posts: 6,094
the good reason it's .tif and not .crw

I actually like Canon using the tif extension in this case

When I used to copy off my images from the D60 you could not tell what they contained to sort them into folders unless you pulled them up in a raw converter.

On my 1Ds, the tif format lets you see the small embedded image they put in their to allow easy sorting. Not a standard tif at all, but a very nice advantage over using CRW as the extension. The D60 Crw's had a small jpg (well actually an almost D30 sized jpg) in their CRW's for quick extraction within a raw converter, but you still could not see the contents at an operating system level like an XP picture folder like their .tif method.

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Derekasaurus Rex Senior Member • Posts: 2,914
So why does Canon call it a TIFF?

Your comments about the TIFF file format are correct. I used to think Canon was writing RAW data according to the TIFF specification (as you mentioned was possible), but it seems they aren't. If that's the case, why does Canon call it a TIFF at all? They might as well put a .gif or .png suffix on it; it would be equally misleading, would it not? I don't understand why they don't call it a CRW, which is what it is.

Mike Fulton wrote:

Actually, TIFF absolutely is an image format, in fact the name is
an acronym for TAGGED IMAGE FILE FORMAT.

There is a very detailed specification for how TIFF files are
supposed to be put together. This specification is flexible enough
to support a wide variety of different image types. The image in a
TIFF file could be 1-bit, 4-bit, 8-bit, 16-bit, 24-bit, 48-bit,
compressed, non-compressed, JPEG-compressed, LZH-compressed,
and so forth. You can even have multiple images within the same file,
each in a different format.

In fact, the specification is flexible enough that most
applications really only support a fairly small subset of the whole
thing.

It would be possible to put raw image sensor data into a valid TIFF
file. Applications that otherwise handle TIFF wouldn't know what
the data meant, but it could still be a validly constructed TIFF
file.

But that's not what Canon is doing.

They aren't making a valid TIFF file with raw sensor data. The
".tif" files they create DO NOT follow the TIFF specification at
all. They're simply applying the ".tif" filename extension to a
file that really should have a ".crw" extension.

Mike

Ken Phillips Forum Pro • Posts: 16,364
If it's not a TIFF ...

... then how does ANY program that can read a tiff open it? The thumbnail section definitely follows the rules ... as to the extra data, you are on your own. (Although I have code to strip it out.)
Ken

Derekasaurus Rex wrote:
Your comments about the TIFF file format are correct. I used to
think Canon was writing RAW data according to the TIFF
specification (as you mentioned was possible), but it seems they
aren't. If that's the case, why does Canon call it a TIFF at all?
They might as well put a .gif or .png suffix on it; it would be
equally misleading, would it not? I don't understand why they don't
call it a CRW, which is what it is.

Mike Fulton wrote:

Actually, TIFF absolutely is an image format, in fact the name is
an acronym for TAGGED IMAGE FILE FORMAT.

There is a very detailed specification for how TIFF files are
supposed to be put together. This specification is flexible enough
to support a wide variety of different image types. The image in a
TIFF file could be 1-bit, 4-bit, 8-bit, 16-bit, 24-bit, 48-bit,
compressed, non-compressed, JPEG-compressed, LZH-compressed,
and so forth. You can even have multiple images within the same file,
each in a different format.

In fact, the specification is flexible enough that most
applications really only support a fairly small subset of the whole
thing.

It would be possible to put raw image sensor data into a valid TIFF
file. Applications that otherwise handle TIFF wouldn't know what
the data meant, but it could still be a validly constructed TIFF
file.

But that's not what Canon is doing.

They aren't making a valid TIFF file with raw sensor data. The
".tif" files they create DO NOT follow the TIFF specification at
all. They're simply applying the ".tif" filename extension to a
file that really should have a ".crw" extension.

Mike

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