Metering tied to eye tracking

In the Canon pro DSLRs like the 1D, 1Ds, 1D X models, the user could switch to spot metering and tie it to the focus point.  I've wanted that feature for the EOS R5 but I'm wondering if it doesn't already have it.

I've just spent the weekend at North Texas Irish Festival photographing musicians while they perform.  This is the 2nd year that I've had the R5 but it is the first time I've had the "dual back button focus" implemented.  I swapped the two buttons.  The normal AF button does eye AF while the star button does the selected AF mode which I have set to one point.  I did this because the AF button is more comfortable to press while also firing the shutter button and I was using eye AF much more than normal AF.

I also have exposure simulation set.

I noticed that while I push the eye AF button and the camera has not yet locked onto the eye, the exposure (in this case) was darker picking up on the white background which was the overall scene.  But when the camera picked up on the eye and the AF locked onto the musician's eye, the exposure simulated in the view finder would change such that the eye was also properly exposed.

Has anyone else noticed this or am I daft?

pedz wrote:

In the Canon pro DSLRs like the 1D, 1Ds, 1D X models, the user could switch to spot metering and tie it to the focus point. I've wanted that feature for the EOS R5 but I'm wondering if it doesn't already have it.

I've just spent the weekend at North Texas Irish Festival photographing musicians while they perform. This is the 2nd year that I've had the R5 but it is the first time I've had the "dual back button focus" implemented. I swapped the two buttons. The normal AF button does eye AF while the star button does the selected AF mode which I have set to one point. I did this because the AF button is more comfortable to press while also firing the shutter button and I was using eye AF much more than normal AF.

I also have exposure simulation set.

I noticed that while I push the eye AF button and the camera has not yet locked onto the eye, the exposure (in this case) was darker picking up on the white background which was the overall scene. But when the camera picked up on the eye and the AF locked onto the musician's eye, the exposure simulated in the view finder would change such that the eye was also properly exposed.

Has anyone else noticed this or am I daft?

All Canons have had this feature for many years. With the standard metering mode, the metering is biased towards the selected AF point. How much of a bias might have changed over the years. With each new camera I get, I find the metering algorithms to be improved. The bias is not as much as treating the AF point as the spot in spot metering, but it's often enough to overcome a fair amount of mismatch with the background.

JohnSil wrote:

pedz wrote:

In the Canon pro DSLRs like the 1D, 1Ds, 1D X models, the user could switch to spot metering and tie it to the focus point. I've wanted that feature for the EOS R5 but I'm wondering if it doesn't already have it.

No, the R5 does NOT have this feature. In Canon only the 1 models have had it.

I've shot with a couple 1Dx's and I SOOO much miss this feature on all other Canons.

With the 1Dx, I could pick out one face in a streak of light in a crowd and that face was almost always perfectly exposed!! That feature is Huge.

I assume with the R3 you can tie it to the Eye AF. That would be an amazing way to shoot that camera!!! I can only imagine what the R1 will bring!?!

John

This spot metering linked to the AF point feature is NOT an option on the R3 sadly. As a long time 1-series shooter I miss it too.

Sittatunga wrote:

It's fairly strongly biassed towards the focus point. I like that better than spot metering at the focus point. A small enough spot for actual spot metering would be too easily thrown out by the local high contrast you need for accurate metering. (In the case of eye AF, would it be metering the pupil, the iris or the white of the eye? Surely you would want it to be metering mostly the face, which is effectively what Canon's evaluative metering does.)

Evaluative metering biased towards the focus point can also be a problem.  For example if you are manually focus stacking a landscape - say two exposures, one for foreground and one for distance - moving the focus point changes the exposure, often by 2 stops.  You have to remember to switch to manual.

drsnoopy wrote:

Evaluative metering biased towards the focus point can also be a problem. For example if you are manually focus stacking a landscape - say two exposures, one for foreground and one for distance - moving the focus point changes the exposure, often by 2 stops. You have to remember to switch to manual.

That will be true for any kind of auto-metering. If you are stacking in changing light, you need manual metering between shots to be sure (even if auto metering was used prior to the shot to come up with the settings).

Although it is not mentioned in the manual I have the feeling (from my own experience) that this is true.

It is not a feauture you can switch on or off, but you see the exposure change when you move the focuspoint.

PicPocket wrote:

drsnoopy wrote:

Evaluative metering biased towards the focus point can also be a problem. For example if you are manually focus stacking a landscape - say two exposures, one for foreground and one for distance - moving the focus point changes the exposure, often by 2 stops. You have to remember to switch to manual.

That will be true for any kind of auto-metering. If you are stacking in changing light, you need manual metering between shots to be sure (even if auto metering was used prior to the shot to come up with the settings).

If you use the focus bracketing feature in camera, I think the metering is locked on the first shot.

John Photo wrote:

Depending on the number of images set for the focus bracketing, typically (but perhaps not always with high frame settings) those frames would literally be taken in a split second, right?

Yes. With my R7 or R6II I can handhold a bracket of 20-30 shots in under a second.

While it seems to not be user settable, it seems to make sense to me that exposure would be biased toward the point of focus.

Yes, it's biased towards the focus point you use to initiate the bracket. After that, the camera simply moves the focus back by a certain amount (specified by the user) for each subsequent shot.

Alastair Norcross wrote:

PicPocket wrote:

drsnoopy wrote:

Evaluative metering biased towards the focus point can also be a problem. For example if you are manually focus stacking a landscape - say two exposures, one for foreground and one for distance - moving the focus point changes the exposure, often by 2 stops. You have to remember to switch to manual.

That will be true for any kind of auto-metering. If you are stacking in changing light, you need manual metering between shots to be sure (even if auto metering was used prior to the shot to come up with the settings).

If you use the focus bracketing feature in camera, I think the metering is locked on the first shot.

Since the above post mentioned manual stacking, I also assumed the underlying shots can be taken independently. At least it sound like a process where photographer is making decisions rather than camera. If someone is going through that much creative control, I would say better take the same control on exposure too

drsnoopy wrote:

Sittatunga wrote:

It's fairly strongly biassed towards the focus point. I like that better than spot metering at the focus point. A small enough spot for actual spot metering would be too easily thrown out by the local high contrast you need for accurate metering. (In the case of eye AF, would it be metering the pupil, the iris or the white of the eye? Surely you would want it to be metering mostly the face, which is effectively what Canon's evaluative metering does.)

Evaluative metering biased towards the focus point can also be a problem. For example if you are manually focus stacking a landscape - say two exposures, one for foreground and one for distance - moving the focus point changes the exposure, often by 2 stops. You have to remember to switch to manual.

That "bias" isn't so much a matter of weighted metering (as with "center-weighted") but information to the system that the subject is located at that point. The system can also recognize and evaluate certain types of lighting patterns, such as back lighting, spot lighting, et cetera, in which knowing the location of the subject provides information for a correct exposure.

Have not tried it on a tripod. Bit noticed it in r/l. Manual is manual....

JohnSil wrote:

StevenScholten wrote:

Although it is not mentioned in the manual I have the feeling (from my own experience) that this is true.

It is not a feauture you can switch on or off, but you see the exposure change when you move the focuspoint.

So you're saying that if one puts said camera on a tripod in heavily stratified light on the background or foreground and then moves the single focus point(I assume except in manual mode) from top right corner to bottom left corner, to center etc, each move will render a different exposure level in the camera's exposure bar? If so I was completely unaware that in any Canon other than the 1 models that the exposure would be weighted to the focus area or individual point, without moving the camera at all and nolt just radiating from the center as per the metering mode and its normal sampling areas! I just assume it would not change in manual mode?

John