Canon: We are in talks with other [lens-]manufacturers

Hi

On digicam-info.com I stumbled upon this coming from Canon developers interviewed at the recent CP+ 2023 venue in Japan. Via Google translate :

(Many people are waiting for the RF mount to become open. Will there be third-party RF lenses in the near future?)
Certainly, there have been many inquiries from third parties, and we have listened to their requests. However, we do not have direction or policy on this matter. I cannot give details, but if it is in line with our strategy, we will take necessary measures on a case-by-case basis. One example is the launch of Cosina's RF lenses. Cosina's Voigtlander 50mm F1 is the first 3rd party lens that can communicate with the body via an RF mount. We are in talks with other manufacturers.

So it's not very likely we will see third party AF lenses within the next five years or so.

LennyLevino wrote:

So it's not very likely we will see third party AF lenses within the next five years or so.

To me their statement actually sounded more positive on potential 3rd party arrangements than I expected, but I guess this is a glass is half full / half empty kind of thing, generic enough to be open to one's own interpretation.

.

From an interview with Sigma CEO:

Question: En contraste [à propos Nikon] Canon continue de verrouiller sa monture RF. Selon vous, quels sont les bénéfices à une telle stratégie de fermeture ?

Réponse: C’est une décision stratégique de Canon, donc j’ignore quelles sont leurs intentions. D’un autre côté, la monture RF a seulement 5 ans, donc ils ont sans doute encore besoin d’un peu de temps pour étudier le marchė.

Quick translation:

”It’s a strategic decision of Canon’s [whether to open the RF mount to third parties]. I’m not aware what their intentions are. . .The RF mount is only five years old, so doubtless they need some time to study the the market.”

https://phototrend.fr/2023/02/sigma-cpplus-2023-interview-kazuto-yamaki-nikon-z/?utm_content=bufferc143c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[I’m not sure whether I detect a hint of  dry sarcasm in Kazuto Yamaki‘s last comment or not. . .Canon watchers are welcome to explicate how long Canon usually takes to ‘study the market’ for some new development.]

Well, if we are collecting interviews of interest - and open for various interpretations - here's another one with Sigma CEO back in October:

Spanish site https://www.photolari.com/ did an interview with Sigma CEO Kazuto Yamaki. The interviewer speaks Spanish which I don't understand. But with help from automatic subtitling I think the dialog is something like the following...

Photolari (P) ask about the situation or likelihood to get Canon RF lenses from Sigma, Kazuto Yamaki (Sigma) answers:

Sigma: Sigma's mission is to deliver lenses to as many customers as possible. And I'm very aware that there is a strong demand from Canon mirrorless users. I really appreciate such interest from customers. I cannot tell about future planning, but I really want to deliver such products in the future.

P: When such lenses hasn't yet arrived, is it because of Sigma or is it because of Canon?

Sigma: [Smiling, surely knowing why he's asked a question like that] Sorry, but I cannot comment on it [both laughing]. But what I can tell you today is that Sigma is very interested to satisfy the Canon mirrorless users' demand.

1. The Stig Nygaard wrote:

Hi

On digicam-info.com I stumbled upon this coming from Canon developers interviewed at the recent CP+ 2023 venue in Japan. Via Google translate :

(Many people are waiting for the RF mount to become open. Will there be third-party RF lenses in the near future?)
Certainly, there have been many inquiries from third parties, and we have listened to their requests. However, we do not have direction or policy on this matter. I cannot give details, but if it is in line with our strategy, we will take necessary measures on a case-by-case basis. One example is the launch of Cosina's RF lenses. Cosina's Voigtlander 50mm F1 is the first 3rd party lens that can communicate with the body via an RF mount. We are in talks with other manufacturers.

It’s interesting that Canon says there have been inquiries and they are in talks. That’s movement. I expect that Canon will eventually license at least some of the RF protocol.

Stig Nygaard wrote:

Well, if we are collecting interviews of interest - and open for various interpretations - here's another one with Sigma CEO back in October:

Spanish site https://www.photolari.com/ did an interview with Sigma CEO Kazuto Yamaki. The interviewer speaks Spanish which I don't understand. But with help from automatic subtitling I think the dialog is something like the following...

Photolari (P) ask about the situation or likelihood to get Canon RF lenses from Sigma, Kazuto Yamaki (Sigma) answers:

Sigma: Sigma's mission is to deliver lenses to as many customers as possible. And I'm very aware that there is a strong demand from Canon mirrorless users. I really appreciate such interest from customers. I cannot tell about future planning, but I really want to deliver such products in the future.

P: When such lenses hasn't yet arrived, is it because of Sigma or is it because of Canon?

Sigma: [Smiling, surely knowing why he's asked a question like that] Sorry, but I cannot comment on it [both laughing]. But what I can tell you today is that Sigma is very interested to satisfy the Canon mirrorless users' demand.

Thanks for sharing Stig.

Would love to see some RF-mount ART lenses from Sigma. I have one (35/1.4) for my Sony mount and it's an excellent lens and superbly built. And the price is quite reasonable.

In the meantime I hope Canon continues to make those lighter consumer lenses as I am priced out of their premium L lenses for the RF mount.

photogopinion wrote:

From an interview with Sigma CEO:

Question: En contraste [à propos Nikon] Canon continue de verrouiller sa monture RF. Selon vous, quels sont les bénéfices à une telle stratégie de fermeture ?

Réponse: C’est une décision stratégique de Canon, donc j’ignore quelles sont leurs intentions. D’un autre côté, la monture RF a seulement 5 ans, donc ils ont sans doute encore besoin d’un peu de temps pour étudier le marchė.

Quick translation:

”It’s a strategic decision of Canon’s [whether to open the RF mount to third parties]. I’m not aware what their intentions are. . .The RF mount is only five years old, so doubtless they need some time to study the the market.”

https://phototrend.fr/2023/02/sigma-cpplus-2023-interview-kazuto-yamaki-nikon-z/?utm_content=bufferc143c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[I’m not sure whether I detect a hint of dry sarcasm in Kazuto Yamaki‘s last comment or not. . .Canon watchers are welcome to explicate how long Canon usually takes to ‘study the market’ for some new development.]

Of course, Sigma didn’t wait for Canon to “open” the EF mount. They just reverse engineered it. I do not think Canon expected Sigma (or Tamron) to also try to compete directly with Canon’s higher end lenses, but they did and they did so successfully. This time around Canon has apparently made it very hard to reverse the RF protocol without infringing. They may be willing to license it, or parts of it, but this time they will want a cut. Canon doesn’t make any money of when Sigma sells an EF lens and I think the idea that the availability of third party AF lenses will enable Canon to sell more first party cameras is overstated, if not altogether fanciful.

That was last October; the interview I’m quoting was just a week ago.

Which I also wrote?

Was just collecting more material to base speculations on.

Stig Nygaard wrote:

Hi

On digicam-info.com I stumbled upon this coming from Canon developers interviewed at the recent CP+ 2023 venue in Japan. Via Google translate :

(Many people are waiting for the RF mount to become open. Will there be third-party RF lenses in the near future?)
Certainly, there have been many inquiries from third parties, and we have listened to their requests. However, we do not have direction or policy on this matter. I cannot give details, but if it is in line with our strategy, we will take necessary measures on a case-by-case basis. One example is the launch of Cosina's RF lenses. Cosina's Voigtlander 50mm F1 is the first 3rd party lens that can communicate with the body via an RF mount. We are in talks with other manufacturers.

We wonder why they are waiting ?

Waiting to smash Sony ? 

Stig Nygaard wrote:

Hi

On digicam-info.com I stumbled upon this coming from Canon developers interviewed at the recent CP+ 2023 venue in Japan. Via Google translate :

(Many people are waiting for the RF mount to become open. Will there be third-party RF lenses in the near future?)
Certainly, there have been many inquiries from third parties, and we have listened to their requests. However, we do not have direction or policy on this matter. I cannot give details, but if it is in line with our strategy, we will take necessary measures on a case-by-case basis.

Thus far he's simply saying nothing at best. There's no policy. But there is a strategy. He isn't telling anything (not just backholding details) about the policy lacking strategy. And IF something is in line with the for us unknown strategy he isn't telling anything about they will do X or Y.

One example is the launch of Cosina's RF lenses. Cosina's Voigtlander 50mm F1 is the first 3rd party lens that can communicate

yeah, communicate what. The focal length making IBIS work well on the R7 or R6II? It's not about AF here, so this example isn't very promising.

with the body via an RF mount. We are in talks with other manufacturers.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a flat out lie. Canon sells more bodies and lenses creating false hope. Canon will get higher margins for the lenses keeping that hope false.

Of course it was a bit of a problem for Canon third party manufacturers where leaking information about why third party AF RF lenses where discontinued so soon after launch. It's better for Canon to keeping that false hope alive.  And this is how Canon tries to restore that false hope.

LennyLevino wrote:

So it's not very likely we will see third party AF lenses within the next five years or so.

Well, you're welcome to be cynical and unhappy about anything and everything, but to me, the public admission from Canon that they've authorized a third-party RF lens sounds like a big step forward from before.

To me the big news from this article is that 3rd party lenses are coming to RF (with Cosina's). There's been a lot of noise about the ban on 3rd parties, which as gotten to me as well sometimes, I must admit. But Canon, despite being a conservative company, understands market forces and must know that a complete lockdown will hurt them eventually, especially in the age of social media information wildfires.

I scanned the web and found that the Cosina Voiglander 50mm f1 for RF mount seems legit! This excites me greatly. I used to own a Voigtlander 20mm for EF mount, and worked great in my Canon R, later R5 bodies. All electronics, EXIF, auto-configured IBIS and the focus assist feature made focusing easy and the lens a joy to use. These are big differences compared with the flood of manual focus, no electronics lenses available. Not to mention that Cosina quality is top notch, it being the manufacturer of (most?) Zeiss lenses and a viable alternative to Leica glass for their rangefinders.

Last year I wrote to Sigma asking about their APS-C trio (16/30/56) and they wrote back somewhat complaining about Canon and Nikon being closed. But last week, I saw that the trio is now announced for Z mount. I'm sure we'll see them mounted on Canons at some point, just be patient.

here_and_there wrote:

To me the big news from this article is that 3rd party lenses are coming to RF (with Cosina's). There's been a lot of noise about the ban on 3rd parties, which as gotten to me as well sometimes, I must admit. But Canon, despite being a conservative company, understands market forces and must know that a complete lockdown will hurt them eventually, especially in the age of social media information wildfires.

I scanned the web and found that the Cosina Voiglander 50mm f1 for RF mount seems legit! This excites me greatly. I used to own a Voigtlander 20mm for EF mount, and worked great in my Canon R, later R5 bodies. All electronics, EXIF, auto-configured IBIS and the focus assist feature made focusing easy and the lens a joy to use.

Focus Assist is nice. Makes MF lenses very usable. It's never as fast tracking as AF though.

These are big differences compared with the flood of manual focus, no electronics lenses available. Not to mention that Cosina quality is top notch, it being the manufacturer of (most?) Zeiss lenses and a viable alternative to Leica glass for their rangefinders.

Last year I wrote to Sigma asking about their APS-C trio (16/30/56) and they wrote back somewhat complaining about Canon and Nikon being closed. But last week, I saw that the trio is now announced for Z mount. I'm sure we'll see them mounted on Canons at some point, just be patient.

Nikon has a small market share, so Nikon is more dependent on third party offerings.

thunder storm wrote:

here_and_there wrote:

To me the big news from this article is that 3rd party lenses are coming to RF (with Cosina's). There's been a lot of noise about the ban on 3rd parties, which as gotten to me as well sometimes, I must admit. But Canon, despite being a conservative company, understands market forces and must know that a complete lockdown will hurt them eventually, especially in the age of social media information wildfires.

I scanned the web and found that the Cosina Voiglander 50mm f1 for RF mount seems legit! This excites me greatly. I used to own a Voigtlander 20mm for EF mount, and worked great in my Canon R, later R5 bodies. All electronics, EXIF, auto-configured IBIS and the focus assist feature made focusing easy and the lens a joy to use.

Focus Assist is nice. Makes MF lenses very usable. It's never as fast tracking as AF though.

These are big differences compared with the flood of manual focus, no electronics lenses available. Not to mention that Cosina quality is top notch, it being the manufacturer of (most?) Zeiss lenses and a viable alternative to Leica glass for their rangefinders.

Last year I wrote to Sigma asking about their APS-C trio (16/30/56) and they wrote back somewhat complaining about Canon and Nikon being closed. But last week, I saw that the trio is now announced for Z mount. I'm sure we'll see them mounted on Canons at some point, just be patient.

Nikon has a small market share, so Nikon is more dependent on third party offerings.

Yes, MF can't compare to the speed of AF. But I think Cosina found its niche here, with modern electronic high IQ MF lenses. I see this product for people just enjoying a slower paced photo shooting.

I really enjoyed using my old EF mount 20mm Voigtlander. I sold it because it was an old lens and the IQ just wasn't there on an R5, but handling of the lens and enjoyment of the experience were very high. I also used to own the more modern Sony E mount version of the 20mm, and the experience was similar, except for the lack of the cool Canon focus assist feature, which is superior than just focus peaking to MF on the Sonys.

This new 50mm F1 is causing me to see myself strolling doing street photography or landscapes, etc. It's causing me GAS already, tbh. Hopefully Cosina will soon port more of their great newer lenses to the RF mount.

my bet is that Canon will start by allowing Sigma to launch the three Apsc 1.4 primes to test the waters and silence a little bit the criticism. Would love to see Tamron’s fast and affordable zooms as well but I don’t see that happening so soon.

Very interesting read

What Canon was doing was protecting the reputation of their RF autofocus system.

here_and_there wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

here_and_there wrote:

To me the big news from this article is that 3rd party lenses are coming to RF (with Cosina's). There's been a lot of noise about the ban on 3rd parties, which as gotten to me as well sometimes, I must admit. But Canon, despite being a conservative company, understands market forces and must know that a complete lockdown will hurt them eventually, especially in the age of social media information wildfires.

I scanned the web and found that the Cosina Voiglander 50mm f1 for RF mount seems legit! This excites me greatly. I used to own a Voigtlander 20mm for EF mount, and worked great in my Canon R, later R5 bodies. All electronics, EXIF, auto-configured IBIS and the focus assist feature made focusing easy and the lens a joy to use.

Focus Assist is nice. Makes MF lenses very usable. It's never as fast tracking as AF though.

These are big differences compared with the flood of manual focus, no electronics lenses available. Not to mention that Cosina quality is top notch, it being the manufacturer of (most?) Zeiss lenses and a viable alternative to Leica glass for their rangefinders.

Last year I wrote to Sigma asking about their APS-C trio (16/30/56) and they wrote back somewhat complaining about Canon and Nikon being closed. But last week, I saw that the trio is now announced for Z mount. I'm sure we'll see them mounted on Canons at some point, just be patient.

Nikon has a small market share, so Nikon is more dependent on third party offerings.

Yes, MF can't compare to the speed of AF. But I think Cosina found its niche here, with modern electronic high IQ MF lenses. I see this product for people just enjoying a slower paced photo shooting.

I really enjoyed using my old EF mount 20mm Voigtlander. I sold it because it was an old lens and the IQ just wasn't there on an R5, but handling of the lens and enjoyment of the experience were very high. I also used to own the more modern Sony E mount version of the 20mm, and the experience was similar, except for the lack of the cool Canon focus assist feature, which is superior than just focus peaking to MF on the Sonys.

Yeah, absolutely.  I've used it with the Samyang EF f/1.2 XP, and it's a very fun experience.

This new 50mm F1 is causing me to see myself strolling doing street photography or landscapes, etc. It's causing me GAS already, tbh. Hopefully Cosina will soon port more of their great newer lenses to the RF mount.

I think it's too expensive and too soft wide open for me. The Samyang was good at f/1.2 and great from f/1.4, definitely better than the Sigma EF 50mm f/1.4 Art wide open.

Fjzk wrote:

my bet is that Canon will start by allowing Sigma to launch the three Apsc 1.4 primes to test the waters and silence a little bit the criticism.

Risky move: The 56mm f/1.4 is too much of a competitor to the RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm, and folks with R50, R10 and R7 won't buy the RF 50mm f/1.8 stm, so no bridge to full frame there.

Would love to see Tamron’s fast and affordable zooms as well but I don’t see that happening so soon.

Won't happen. Canon needs the margins of the f/2.8 L zooms.