Canon saying what we all knew

MAC wrote:

RLight wrote:

CamerEyes wrote:

AMW20 wrote:

Not sure how to cross post here.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4698945

We all knew it was coming, but this still feels like a slap in the face after Canon said the M mount still had a future 9 months ago.

It's frustrating because the M6 Mkii seems to be the perfect camera for me but I'm hesitant to go all in buying lenses knowing they will be useless if something happens to my M6 or if I want to upgrade to a better body 5 years down the line.

Whether Canon lied or not, it is also a case of people being in denial despite glaring writings on the wall.

With the launch of the R7 and R10, it was clear Canon was heavily invested in RF bodies and RF lenses. Before this, I was also wishing for an EF-M mount body with IBIS - would have been a killer feature for me, considering its size. I decided to just buy the Sony A7C when it became clear Canon would abandon the M series sooner than later ( as travel gear when my R7 and R6Mii were too cumbersome for the purpose).

Does not change the fact that the M6 Mark II is one of the best cameras Canon ever made.

A7C... Opinion? Granted M forum. I've heard rumor the A7C II is coming, but curious your opinion of the A7C nonetheless. The 28-60 and those Samyang primes are of interest.

old sony style bad ergonomics

focus acquisition not as good as canon

wait for Ver II

but it will be hard to match R8

That's why I'm asking, Ver II is imminent.

RLight wrote:

MAC wrote:

RLight wrote:

CamerEyes wrote:

AMW20 wrote:

Not sure how to cross post here.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4698945

We all knew it was coming, but this still feels like a slap in the face after Canon said the M mount still had a future 9 months ago.

It's frustrating because the M6 Mkii seems to be the perfect camera for me but I'm hesitant to go all in buying lenses knowing they will be useless if something happens to my M6 or if I want to upgrade to a better body 5 years down the line.

Whether Canon lied or not, it is also a case of people being in denial despite glaring writings on the wall.

With the launch of the R7 and R10, it was clear Canon was heavily invested in RF bodies and RF lenses. Before this, I was also wishing for an EF-M mount body with IBIS - would have been a killer feature for me, considering its size. I decided to just buy the Sony A7C when it became clear Canon would abandon the M series sooner than later ( as travel gear when my R7 and R6Mii were too cumbersome for the purpose).

Does not change the fact that the M6 Mark II is one of the best cameras Canon ever made.

A7C... Opinion? Granted M forum. I've heard rumor the A7C II is coming, but curious your opinion of the A7C nonetheless. The 28-60 and those Samyang primes are of interest.

old sony style bad ergonomics

focus acquisition not as good as canon

wait for Ver II

but it will be hard to match R8

That's why I'm asking, Ver II is imminent.

R8 makes more sense as a backup to your R3

MAC wrote:

RLight wrote:

MAC wrote:

RLight wrote:

CamerEyes wrote:

AMW20 wrote:

Not sure how to cross post here.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4698945

We all knew it was coming, but this still feels like a slap in the face after Canon said the M mount still had a future 9 months ago.

It's frustrating because the M6 Mkii seems to be the perfect camera for me but I'm hesitant to go all in buying lenses knowing they will be useless if something happens to my M6 or if I want to upgrade to a better body 5 years down the line.

Whether Canon lied or not, it is also a case of people being in denial despite glaring writings on the wall.

With the launch of the R7 and R10, it was clear Canon was heavily invested in RF bodies and RF lenses. Before this, I was also wishing for an EF-M mount body with IBIS - would have been a killer feature for me, considering its size. I decided to just buy the Sony A7C when it became clear Canon would abandon the M series sooner than later ( as travel gear when my R7 and R6Mii were too cumbersome for the purpose).

Does not change the fact that the M6 Mark II is one of the best cameras Canon ever made.

A7C... Opinion? Granted M forum. I've heard rumor the A7C II is coming, but curious your opinion of the A7C nonetheless. The 28-60 and those Samyang primes are of interest.

old sony style bad ergonomics

focus acquisition not as good as canon

wait for Ver II

but it will be hard to match R8

That's why I'm asking, Ver II is imminent.

R8 makes more sense as a backup to your R3

R50 can crop… So can the R10 btw.

If canon had a RF-S 11-something? Done.

RLight wrote:

MAC wrote:

RLight wrote:

MAC wrote:

RLight wrote:

CamerEyes wrote:

AMW20 wrote:

Not sure how to cross post here.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4698945

We all knew it was coming, but this still feels like a slap in the face after Canon said the M mount still had a future 9 months ago.

It's frustrating because the M6 Mkii seems to be the perfect camera for me but I'm hesitant to go all in buying lenses knowing they will be useless if something happens to my M6 or if I want to upgrade to a better body 5 years down the line.

Whether Canon lied or not, it is also a case of people being in denial despite glaring writings on the wall.

With the launch of the R7 and R10, it was clear Canon was heavily invested in RF bodies and RF lenses. Before this, I was also wishing for an EF-M mount body with IBIS - would have been a killer feature for me, considering its size. I decided to just buy the Sony A7C when it became clear Canon would abandon the M series sooner than later ( as travel gear when my R7 and R6Mii were too cumbersome for the purpose).

Does not change the fact that the M6 Mark II is one of the best cameras Canon ever made.

A7C... Opinion? Granted M forum. I've heard rumor the A7C II is coming, but curious your opinion of the A7C nonetheless. The 28-60 and those Samyang primes are of interest.

old sony style bad ergonomics

focus acquisition not as good as canon

wait for Ver II

but it will be hard to match R8

That's why I'm asking, Ver II is imminent.

R8 makes more sense as a backup to your R3

R50 can crop… So can the R10 btw.

If canon had a RF-S 11-something? Done.

that sounds like a better plan, at least you'd be able to put your 28-70 f2 on it in a jam

nnowak wrote:

Jimmytech wrote:

I would like to further add that Canon needs to be reminded that the reason they created the EOSM is lure cellphone users for something better, something small enough to be carried everyday along with their phone and something that is inexpensive enough to be bought as an extra along with their cellphone and wouldn't break their budget. Given our current times where we takes photos for social media, and economic downturn, the EOSM still fills that market segment with little opposition.

While these might be the reasons you, personally, bought into the M system, they are not reasons Canon created the M system.

It is not only Jimmytech, but also at least me, whose reason for buying the M was the fact, that it is "small enough". So, independent of the reasons Canon created this system for, it was obviously a gap in the market.

Panasonic launched the first micro four thirds camera in 2008, Olympus followed on in 2009, and Sony launched their first E mount cameras in 2010 (likely in reaction to the Panasonic m4/3 launch). Work on the first micro 4/3 mirrorless cameras would have started before the first iPhone was launched. AF and operational speed were terrible on all of these cameras, but they cameras were tiny and they all had adapters available to mount each brands legacy DSLR glass. No one was really sure who the cameras were for, or how to market them, but the small sizes were creating a lot of buzz. Micro 4/3 was created because regular four thirds DSLRs were failing in the marketplace and Olympus/Panasonic needed to pivot. To a lesser extent, the same was also true for Sony A mount DSLRs. These companies could not compete against Canon and Nikon for DSLR sales and tried to create a new niche based primarily on smallest possible size.

You have forgotten N1, the smallest ILC-system (beside Pentax).

Canon saw these smaller than DSLR cameras gaining traction, especially in Japan. Canon created the M system in reaction to the competition, and not in reaction to smartphones. The M system launched in 2012, and at the latest, development would have started back in 2010 (iPhone 4 launched in 2010). The original M was literally just a repackaged Rebel T4i (EOS 650D / EOS Kiss X6i). While Canon did tout ease of use and Auto modes on the original M, a significant portion of the marketing focused on adapting EF glass and using the M as an accessory to a Canon DLSR. At one of the photography shows, Canon had a stand with every available EF lens on display with an original M attached to each.

As Nikon with N1, Canon also had the fear of cannibalizing their DLSRs.
But as can be seen today, the M is a stand-alone-system. Small, very capable, with lots of advantages which can, however, only rarely be found in your comments.

Basically, Canon created the M system in reaction to the popularity of the competitions' small mirrorless cameras. Six years later, Canon would need to react again and launch the RF mount in response to the growing popularity of the full frame Sony a7 series.

JoWinter wrote:

rz64 wrote:

I have the M6i and it is still a perfect camera for me. If something happens to this body I will look at the "used market". I assume it should be no problem within the next five years (or more) to find a secondhand camera or secondhand lenses for EOS-M.

I consider buying a second M6ii - just in case. Like for many others, the M6ii is the perfect travel and walk-around camera for me. Right now, it does not like the RF-S system will come close. At the same time, I'm a happy R system full-frame user but I will run the two systems in parallel for some time.

That’s exactly what I’m doing!  Not enough RF/RF-S lenses to take its place yet.  And I enjoy that form factor and the tilting screen way too much.  

R2

justmeMN wrote:

Jimmytech wrote:

I would like to further add that Canon needs to be reminded that the reason they created the EOSM is lure cellphone users for something better, something small enough to be carried everyday along with their phone and something that is inexpensive enough to be bought as an extra along with their cellphone and wouldn't break their budget. Given our current times where we takes photos for social media, and economic downturn, the EOSM still fills that market segment with little opposition.

To me, the R50 meets those criteria.

Different people, different criteria.

MyM6II wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

To me, the R50 meets those criteria.

Different people, different criteria.

Nice illustration.  Shows some of the positives AND negatives!

I’ve never been able to get past the ergonomics and limitations of the M100/200 form factor, but maybe someday I’ll have to give it a whirl!

R2

justmeMN wrote:

Jimmytech wrote:

I would like to further add that Canon needs to be reminded that the reason they created the EOSM is lure cellphone users for something better, something small enough to be carried everyday along with their phone and something that is inexpensive enough to be bought as an extra along with their cellphone and wouldn't break their budget. Given our current times where we takes photos for social media, and economic downturn, the EOSM still fills that market segment with little opposition.

To me, the R50 meets those criteria.

Awww... it is cute, I kind of want one.

R2D2 wrote:

JoWinter wrote:

rz64 wrote:

I have the M6i and it is still a perfect camera for me. If something happens to this body I will look at the "used market". I assume it should be no problem within the next five years (or more) to find a secondhand camera or secondhand lenses for EOS-M.

I consider buying a second M6ii - just in case. Like for many others, the M6ii is the perfect travel and walk-around camera for me. Right now, it does not like the RF-S system will come close. At the same time, I'm a happy R system full-frame user but I will run the two systems in parallel for some time.

That’s exactly what I’m doing! Not enough RF/RF-S lenses to take its place yet. And I enjoy that form factor and the tilting screen way too much.

R2

I don't see Canon giving RF-s F1.4 primes on small 32.5 mpxl crop bodies -ever

if I had all the m glass some folks have, including the siggy's, that is what I'd probably do, hoard M for the reasons given for a longer time.

but I have only 2 M lenses, 32 and 11-22, and can't bring myself to add more m since Canon is sadly abandoning the platform

MAC wrote:

RLight wrote:

MAC wrote:

RLight wrote:

MAC wrote:

RLight wrote:

CamerEyes wrote:

AMW20 wrote:

Not sure how to cross post here.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4698945

We all knew it was coming, but this still feels like a slap in the face after Canon said the M mount still had a future 9 months ago.

It's frustrating because the M6 Mkii seems to be the perfect camera for me but I'm hesitant to go all in buying lenses knowing they will be useless if something happens to my M6 or if I want to upgrade to a better body 5 years down the line.

Whether Canon lied or not, it is also a case of people being in denial despite glaring writings on the wall.

With the launch of the R7 and R10, it was clear Canon was heavily invested in RF bodies and RF lenses. Before this, I was also wishing for an EF-M mount body with IBIS - would have been a killer feature for me, considering its size. I decided to just buy the Sony A7C when it became clear Canon would abandon the M series sooner than later ( as travel gear when my R7 and R6Mii were too cumbersome for the purpose).

Does not change the fact that the M6 Mark II is one of the best cameras Canon ever made.

A7C... Opinion? Granted M forum. I've heard rumor the A7C II is coming, but curious your opinion of the A7C nonetheless. The 28-60 and those Samyang primes are of interest.

old sony style bad ergonomics

focus acquisition not as good as canon

wait for Ver II

but it will be hard to match R8

That's why I'm asking, Ver II is imminent.

R8 makes more sense as a backup to your R3

R50 can crop… So can the R10 btw.

If canon had a RF-S 11-something? Done.

that sounds like a better plan, at least you'd be able to put your 28-70 f2 on it in a jam

but that R8 + RF 24-50 has your name on it

RLight wrote:

CamerEyes wrote:

AMW20 wrote:

Not sure how to cross post here.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4698945

We all knew it was coming, but this still feels like a slap in the face after Canon said the M mount still had a future 9 months ago.

It's frustrating because the M6 Mkii seems to be the perfect camera for me but I'm hesitant to go all in buying lenses knowing they will be useless if something happens to my M6 or if I want to upgrade to a better body 5 years down the line.

Whether Canon lied or not, it is also a case of people being in denial despite glaring writings on the wall.

With the launch of the R7 and R10, it was clear Canon was heavily invested in RF bodies and RF lenses. Before this, I was also wishing for an EF-M mount body with IBIS - would have been a killer feature for me, considering its size. I decided to just buy the Sony A7C when it became clear Canon would abandon the M series sooner than later ( as travel gear when my R7 and R6Mii were too cumbersome for the purpose).

Does not change the fact that the M6 Mark II is one of the best cameras Canon ever made.

A7C... Opinion? Granted M forum. I've heard rumor the A7C II is coming, but curious your opinion of the A7C nonetheless. The 28-60 and those Samyang primes are of interest.

Since I own the R6Mii, and it's been my benchmark for focusing speed and accuracy, then even my R7 is slow by comparison.

If I set aside the R6Mii as point of comparison, the A7C is a very decent, capable camera. Small, easy to use and the sensor produces topnotch image quality. It spoils me with lens options, and right now I have the Tamron 24mm, Samyang 35mm and the Sigma 65mm. Best of all, it is so light. IBIS not as good as what I have on my R6Mii and R7 but not bad at all. Perfect for travel photography. Does not attract that much attention for street photography.

Whether the A7Cii is coming out soon or not, I still think the A7C is much better than the RP in many respects, and is smaller thus much better for travel as far as I am concerned, especially for those trips with family and friends where 90% is to enjoy the scenery and company, while 10% is stealing chances for photography, aside from photographing people of course.

Battery life floors me. I shoot all day and I still retain around 60% of power. It's almost like I don't need a spare battery. Ergonomics isn't very different from the M6 Mark II, so I can't complain.

Colors are beautiful. While Canon skintones are still better, for landscapes, etc. Sony has really come a long way in its own color science.

I still wish Canon made an M6 Mark II with IBIS.

MAC wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

JoWinter wrote:

rz64 wrote:

I have the M6i and it is still a perfect camera for me. If something happens to this body I will look at the "used market". I assume it should be no problem within the next five years (or more) to find a secondhand camera or secondhand lenses for EOS-M.

I consider buying a second M6ii - just in case. Like for many others, the M6ii is the perfect travel and walk-around camera for me. Right now, it does not like the RF-S system will come close. At the same time, I'm a happy R system full-frame user but I will run the two systems in parallel for some time.

That’s exactly what I’m doing! Not enough RF/RF-S lenses to take its place yet. And I enjoy that form factor and the tilting screen way too much.

R2

I don't see Canon giving RF-s F1.4 primes on small 32.5 mpxl crop bodies -ever

if I had all the m glass some folks have, including the siggy's, that is what I'd probably do, hoard M for the reasons given for a longer time.

but I have only 2 M lenses, 32 and 11-22, and can't bring myself to add more m since Canon is sadly abandoning the platform

I suspect we'll get the EF-M 32mm F1.4 ported to RF-S one of these days. That lens didn't spend nearly enough time in the market for Canon to want to retire it. However, it's clearly a lower priority than, say, the 11-22 or 22F2. Other focal lengths...well, it isn't as if Canon ever gave F1.4 primes in other focal lengths to EF-S or EF-M, either.

MAC wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

JoWinter wrote:

rz64 wrote:

I have the M6i and it is still a perfect camera for me. If something happens to this body I will look at the "used market". I assume it should be no problem within the next five years (or more) to find a secondhand camera or secondhand lenses for EOS-M.

I consider buying a second M6ii - just in case. Like for many others, the M6ii is the perfect travel and walk-around camera for me. Right now, it does not like the RF-S system will come close. At the same time, I'm a happy R system full-frame user but I will run the two systems in parallel for some time.

That’s exactly what I’m doing! Not enough RF/RF-S lenses to take its place yet. And I enjoy that form factor and the tilting screen way too much.

R2

I don't see Canon giving RF-s F1.4 primes on small 32.5 mpxl crop bodies -ever

if I had all the m glass some folks have, including the siggy's, that is what I'd probably do, hoard M for the reasons given for a longer time.

but I have only 2 M lenses, 32 and 11-22, and can't bring myself to add more m since Canon is sadly abandoning the platform

I like the M6II button and dial setup so much !

Been trying to get using the M6II firmly into my long term memory.

Lights, camera, action. 

m100 wrote:

MAC wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

JoWinter wrote:

rz64 wrote:

I have the M6i and it is still a perfect camera for me. If something happens to this body I will look at the "used market". I assume it should be no problem within the next five years (or more) to find a secondhand camera or secondhand lenses for EOS-M.

I consider buying a second M6ii - just in case. Like for many others, the M6ii is the perfect travel and walk-around camera for me. Right now, it does not like the RF-S system will come close. At the same time, I'm a happy R system full-frame user but I will run the two systems in parallel for some time.

That’s exactly what I’m doing! Not enough RF/RF-S lenses to take its place yet. And I enjoy that form factor and the tilting screen way too much.

R2

I don't see Canon giving RF-s F1.4 primes on small 32.5 mpxl crop bodies -ever

if I had all the m glass some folks have, including the siggy's, that is what I'd probably do, hoard M for the reasons given for a longer time.

but I have only 2 M lenses, 32 and 11-22, and can't bring myself to add more m since Canon is sadly abandoning the platform

I like the M6II button and dial setup so much !

Been trying to get using the M6II firmly into my long term memory.

Lights, camera, action.

it makes sense for folks like you with those great siggy's and m glass to get the second m6II bodies and go for the long run

it would take an RF 50 f1.4 with the R8 to sell m stuff and get me off the m platform - but that is not likely anytime soon