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…Said the quiet part out loud

Started 1 month ago | Discussions
Sittatunga Veteran Member • Posts: 5,406
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
1

justmeMN wrote:

Sittatunga wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

Maxmolly7 wrote:

R is all about generating revenue and not customer satisfaction!

R is all about having the same mount for both APS-C and FF. like Sony and Nikon do.

R wasn't. R7, R10, R50 and RF-S are.

By R, I meant the RF mount.

The one which, at its introduction, Canon was said was optimised for FF as they already had an APS-C mirrorless mount.  Be careful what you wish for.

Steve Balcombe Forum Pro • Posts: 15,571
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

justmeMN wrote:

Sittatunga wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

Maxmolly7 wrote:

R is all about generating revenue and not customer satisfaction!

R is all about having the same mount for both APS-C and FF. like Sony and Nikon do.

R wasn't. R7, R10, R50 and RF-S are.

By R, I meant the RF mount.

Unfortunately, Canon decided their MILC system should be known as the EOS R System, then named the first body the EOS R. Which naturally leads to confusion.

The mount, however, is not the EOS R mount, it's the RF mount (as you clarified). There is an "R mount", an old Canon SLR mount from the late 1950s, and the same name was also used by Leica for a different mount. So it was a sensible move to give the new mount a new name, and RF was an obvious choice to follow the EF mount. Shame they didn't just call the whole shebang the "EOS RF System".

Hawkypuck
Hawkypuck Senior Member • Posts: 1,482
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
2

Ii knew you would link that video! That is by my favorite photography youtuber! Great dude! Watch all his videos.....

Thing is the rf 100-400 is vompletely not weather sealed, and stopped down to get max sharpness comparable to the ef version, it's f11! Compared to f5.6 on the ef version!

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OP RLight Senior Member • Posts: 4,414
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

Hawkypuck wrote:

The m6ii seems like a hell of a camera for its price and size/weight! Truly wrong move by Canon to kill the mount! Such a good lineup that just needed more lenses and a couple more cameras and the mount would be verg popular ir at least amazing imo...can you imagine? An m6ii with car, bird, plane, and train detection? The m6ii definitely deserves one last firware update to add those features before the mount dies. So at least us used buyers can get the m6ii and update it to be the besg camera in the world for under 1000. The sigma 56mm and 16mm m mount primes are also great used...

I agree. Canon doesn't. I don't make the rules, I do inform others of the rules, sometimes myself at times as like yourself, I'm grumpy about the M's fate.

Now I am happy Canon's made a spiritual successor. To your point, caveats of no third party glass. However, it's got a RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM, RF 50mm f/1.8 STM. Those are no slouches. Folks have been adapting the nifty fifty since the dawn of man on a crop for 80mm. Works just fine, rest assured. It's not f/1.4 though, but it's $100, and small.

The RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM is cracking little lens, too.

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmB2jVCF

Obviously on a crop, not FF (above samples from FF). But you can't fault this lens for the price, size. Sound familiar (M-like)? Should. Non-L glass on a small full frame is M like. Where it's not M like is when you need reach. The RF 100-400 isn't compact compared to say an RF-S 55-210. But if you consider an R8, 15-30 or 24-50 vs say an M6 II and 11-22, 15-45, they're not far off both on paper, and practice. I rocked an R + RF 35, 24-240 for a while. The 24-240 is too big. But, that 24-50, fixes that problem... The R + RF 35 a sweet gig, but I always wanted it a bit smaller on the body, like the RP. I wouldn't because the RP made too many compromises. The R8, doesn't. Hrmmmm....

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Steve Balcombe Forum Pro • Posts: 15,571
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
1

Hawkypuck wrote:

Ii knew you would link that video! That is by my favorite photography youtuber! Great dude! Watch all his videos.....

Duade Paton, yes I agree. Knowledgeable, interesting and informative, and not a hint of the ego that besets certain Youtubers. And the emphasis on wildlife makes his material especially useful.

OP RLight Senior Member • Posts: 4,414
Re: Messages

Alastair Norcross wrote:

RLight wrote:

rz64 wrote:

SR Hadden wrote:

EOS-M is dead. Small cameras are for ladies (the usual stereotype from Japan).

...... I've expected this answer here in the R-forum.

I made it a point not to start this thread in the M forum. Thought about it. Let them be.

You know this isn’t the Sharks and the Jets, right? A lot of us shoot with both M and R cameras, and don’t view them as mortal enemies of each other. Sony, on the other hand… 😀

I do, and I noted you guys cross-linked this, but this isn't a hate on the M or R50 thread. Let them M folks be happy with what they have. It's a fantastic system. Real shame.

It's wiser to start the thread on this side of the forums...

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OP RLight Senior Member • Posts: 4,414
If you can't beat em, join em

nnowak wrote:

RLight wrote:

Just wait till the R8 goes on a BF sale… The RP and 24-240 was a grand some time ago?

No. Those deals were kits with the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 STM

No, they had the RP + 24-240 for 1019...

https://slickdeals.net/e/14652311-eos-rp-rf-24-240mm-f4-6-3-is-usm-lens-kit-refurbished-1019-15-tax-and-fs-1019-15

Nothing stopping this sort of discount action on that new 24-50.

Fuji can’t fight that kinda of discount action with their existing business model. The R8, can.

The R8 is a massive upgrade from the RP, but Canon has still restricted it in too many ways.

Although I sorta miss our debates, this is not a strong point from which to argue from. Canon's updated the sensor, permitted high FPS modes, unlocked the video specs. Everything else is to reduce cost and size of the R8. Canon's given folks what they want, at a price they want. The catch is its FF and all that entails. Oh and no third party AF glass, for now.

Welcome to the R forum. A real shame about the M. Good luck sir with your debates. I will say if you still have Fuji? It's not a bad system and you've already spent the dough. But if I were upgrading right now in your shoes? R8.

There's an old saying, if you can't beat em, join em.

Cheers.

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Hawkypuck
Hawkypuck Senior Member • Posts: 1,482
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

Agree

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Hawkypuck
Hawkypuck Senior Member • Posts: 1,482
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
1

Yes, very rare among arrogant utubers...

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Pentaxian and a Canonian!
Food is one of those spices in life!
WEF says electric cars are dangerous!
PENTAX IS UNDERRATED

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halfnote New Member • Posts: 17
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

Maxmolly7 wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

Maxmolly7 wrote:

R is all about generating revenue and not customer satisfaction!

R is all about having the same mount for both APS-C and FF. like Sony and Nikon do.

The R mount is the result of my thesis above. 🙃

Companies have to keep selling new products or they’ll go out of business. What if Ford had stopped with the Model T?

Hawkypuck
Hawkypuck Senior Member • Posts: 1,482
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
1

That's not exactly an apples to apples comparison.......the model t was like the first succesful car they made, whereas the m mount from Canon is not the first successful, it was just a different and interesting mount that could've been much more popular if they didn't decapitate it...

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Pentaxian and a Canonian!
Food is one of those spices in life!
WEF says electric cars are dangerous!
PENTAX IS UNDERRATED

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R2D2 Forum Pro • Posts: 26,528
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
1

RLight wrote:

MAC wrote:

nnowak wrote:

nice, first post in R forum in three years- thinking about buying one

That's hilarious. I didn't catch that till now. Was just saying to that myself it won't be long before Fuji folks join the R forum to "fight". Good luck (they're gonna need it between the R8 and R50 and Canon porting the M glass to RF-S...)

LOL, with every new release, "they" just come out of the woodwork!

R2

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Maxmolly7
Maxmolly7 Senior Member • Posts: 1,480
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

sportyaccordy wrote:

ILCs are kind of dumb for vlogging IMO.

Camera makers are only leaning into them because they have given up on fixed lens cameras.

Something like a G7X or RX100 with an UWA zoom lens, flip up screen, good video focused IBIS and a big battery would make way more sense. And realistically probably be as if not more profitable- I sincerely doubt anyone buying an R50 is going to buy anything beyond the kit lenses it comes with. And there's not even an RF-S UWA lens available 🤦‍♂️

I would love to get my hands on a 1" sensor compact ala RX100 covering a wider angle range <24mm. 🤗

I know, wishful thinking....

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Sittatunga Veteran Member • Posts: 5,406
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

Maxmolly7 wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

ILCs are kind of dumb for vlogging IMO.

Camera makers are only leaning into them because they have given up on fixed lens cameras.

Something like a G7X or RX100 with an UWA zoom lens, flip up screen, good video focused IBIS and a big battery would make way more sense. And realistically probably be as if not more profitable- I sincerely doubt anyone buying an R50 is going to buy anything beyond the kit lenses it comes with. And there's not even an RF-S UWA lens available 🤦‍♂️

I would love to get my hands on a 1" sensor compact ala RX100 covering a wider angle range <24mm. 🤗

I know, wishful thinking....

Something like this, perhaps https://www.cameralabs.com/nikon-dl-18-50-review/

I'm looking forward to it, it's great when companies have a published roadmap.

MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 18,487
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
1

R2D2 wrote:

RLight wrote:

MAC wrote:

nnowak wrote:

nice, first post in R forum in three years- thinking about buying one

That's hilarious. I didn't catch that till now. Was just saying to that myself it won't be long before Fuji folks join the R forum to "fight". Good luck (they're gonna need it between the R8 and R50 and Canon porting the M glass to RF-S...)

LOL, with every new release, "they" just come out of the woodwork!

R2

Canon knows AI focus is a key to smoke the competition - they are large enough to use research dollars to stay in the lead -- here is a review that leaves fuji's new more expensive crop camera well behind the competition on AI focus

Fujifilm X-T5 Review: Compromises And Shortcomings Spoil A Great Update | PetaPixel

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MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 18,487
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

RLight wrote:

MAC wrote:

RLight wrote:

MAC wrote:

nnowak wrote:

MAC wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

MAC wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

kenta101 wrote:

MAC wrote:

55-62mm = f/5
63-84mm = f/5.6
85-142mm = f/6.3
143-210mm = f/7.1

whereas the 55-250 stm

55-63mm = f/4.0
64-99mm = f/4.5
100-154mm = f/5.0
155-250mm = f/5.6

a pathetic aperture range

Might be time to shift to the other side of the paradigm? The cameras can autofocus at these apertures, the software can process the required ISOs, and our wallets can all benefit.

R2

there are FF and Crop options in the new paradigm

R8/R6II/R5 + RF 100 - 400 F5.6 - F8

or

R10/R7/R50 + RF-s 55-210 F5 -F7.1 = FF equivalent of 88 - 336 F8 - F 11.4

FF for me

Yeah, these once thought of as “slow” lenses can really perform!

R2

focus acquisition spec:

R50/R10 -4EV

R7 -5EV

R8/R6II -6.5 EV

the R8 has a whopping 2.5 stops better focus acquisition in low light that is 2.5 X 2.5 = a whopping 6.25 times the amount of light

add that to the 2 stop advantage of the FF 100 -400 on FF over the crop counterpart analysis above, that is a total whopping 2.5 stops + 2 stops = 4.5 stops or a whopping 4.5*4.5 = 20.25 times the amount of light advantage --

wowsers -- that be a whoooooping!

The only thing "that be" is a mathematical disaster. Crop factors and equivalence don't figure into focusing brightness range comparisons. The difference between the bodies is a matter of simple subtraction. R8 vs R7 is 1.5 stops and R8 vs R50 is 2.5 stops. Since the RF-S 55-210mm is 1/3 of a stop faster than the RF 100-400mm, and the EF-S 55-250mm STM is a full stop faster, much of that low light AF advantage is negated. The R8 is still better, but it is not 20.25 time better. Not even close.

nice, first post in R forum in three years- thinking about buying one

RF 100-400 on R8

100-122mm = f/5.6
123-155mm = f/6.3
156-258mm = f/7.1
259-400mm = f/8.0

RF-s 55-210 on R50

55-62mm = f/5
63-84mm = f/5.6
85-142mm = f/6.3
143-210mm = f/7.1

First of All -- The sensor of the R8 is a lot nicer than the R50 😉

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%20R10,Canon%20EOS%20R6%20Mark%20II

I think you are saying equivalence doesn’t matter, I’m saying get similar FOV and multiply F stop by 1.6

That's hilarious. I didn't catch that till now. Was just saying to that myself it won't be long before Fuji folks join the R forum to "fight". Good luck (they're gonna need it between the R8 and R50 and Canon porting the M glass to RF-S...)

agree, R8 is a killer camera

-6.5 EV -and then -3.2 EV at F4 - will focus in full moonlight at f4 with that great aF

It makes my RF 24 -105 F4L an indoor lens

I was never a zoom shooter before this but the R8 will change that

Just wait till the R8 goes on a BF sale… The RP and 24-240 was a grand some time ago? Fuji can’t fight that kinda of discount action with their existing business model. The R8, can.

no 9 month wait for me

I pre-order the R8 today

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Alastair Norcross
Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 9,874
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

Sittatunga wrote:

Maxmolly7 wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

ILCs are kind of dumb for vlogging IMO.

Camera makers are only leaning into them because they have given up on fixed lens cameras.

Something like a G7X or RX100 with an UWA zoom lens, flip up screen, good video focused IBIS and a big battery would make way more sense. And realistically probably be as if not more profitable- I sincerely doubt anyone buying an R50 is going to buy anything beyond the kit lenses it comes with. And there's not even an RF-S UWA lens available 🤦‍♂️

I would love to get my hands on a 1" sensor compact ala RX100 covering a wider angle range <24mm. 🤗

I know, wishful thinking....

Something like this, perhaps https://www.cameralabs.com/nikon-dl-18-50-review/

I'm looking forward to it, it's great when companies have a published roadmap.

Ooh. Wicked. 😄 It would have been fun, though.

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Maxmolly7
Maxmolly7 Senior Member • Posts: 1,480
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

Sittatunga wrote:

Maxmolly7 wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

ILCs are kind of dumb for vlogging IMO.

Camera makers are only leaning into them because they have given up on fixed lens cameras.

Something like a G7X or RX100 with an UWA zoom lens, flip up screen, good video focused IBIS and a big battery would make way more sense. And realistically probably be as if not more profitable- I sincerely doubt anyone buying an R50 is going to buy anything beyond the kit lenses it comes with. And there's not even an RF-S UWA lens available 🤦‍♂️

I would love to get my hands on a 1" sensor compact ala RX100 covering a wider angle range <24mm. 🤗

I know, wishful thinking....

Something like this, perhaps https://www.cameralabs.com/nikon-dl-18-50-review/

I'm looking forward to it, it's great when companies have a published roadmap.

Interesting, I missed this one. In those days I didn't consider 1" cameras yet. Thanx for mentioning.

A pity that they never released it!

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Alastair Norcross
Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 9,874
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
1

MAC wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

FF lenses can lose their luster on crop - RLight has no experience with that lens on crop

But I do, on my R7, and it performs very well. Much as I love the EF-M 32 on my M6II, I wouldn't buy an RF-S version for my R7, because the RF 35 is so good already. What it loses in aperture (2/3 stop), it gains in minimum focus and IS. I can handhold the 35 on my R7 down to 1/2s. With my 32 on my M6II, I don't go lower than 1/125.

the R7 + RF 35 isn't exactly a small setup like the m6II + 32 f1.4

I agree on the ss you discussed

I'm not convinced on the sharp across the frame wide open on that lens without stopping down a bit,

Well, here are a couple of samples I just took wide open. First the whole frame:

And now a 100% crop of the upper left corner:

The focus was on the symbol above 'SIGNET'

And another, full frame first:

And 100% crop from upper left corner:

Focus was on the colon

Looks pretty sharp at F1.8 right at the edge. Certainly good enough for my purposes.

and the backdrop blur I want is ff equivalent of 50 fov f2.2 not having to stop down a bit

but as far as sharp across the frame at f1.4 (50 fov f2.2 equivalent), I'll stay with my m32 f1.4 and m6II since I'm not buying a crop R camera, which I think is for reach with long lenses, wildlife and sports

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rz64 Regular Member • Posts: 454
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

Maxmolly7 wrote:

Sittatunga wrote:

Maxmolly7 wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

ILCs are kind of dumb for vlogging IMO.

Camera makers are only leaning into them because they have given up on fixed lens cameras.

Something like a G7X or RX100 with an UWA zoom lens, flip up screen, good video focused IBIS and a big battery would make way more sense. And realistically probably be as if not more profitable- I sincerely doubt anyone buying an R50 is going to buy anything beyond the kit lenses it comes with. And there's not even an RF-S UWA lens available 🤦‍♂️

I would love to get my hands on a 1" sensor compact ala RX100 covering a wider angle range <24mm. 🤗

I know, wishful thinking....

Something like this, perhaps https://www.cameralabs.com/nikon-dl-18-50-review/

I'm looking forward to it, it's great when companies have a published roadmap.

Interesting, I missed this one. In those days I didn't consider 1" cameras yet. Thanx for mentioning.

A pity that they never released it!

Yes, it's a pity, at that time this camera was on my wishlist.

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