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…Said the quiet part out loud

Started 1 month ago | Discussions
Hawkypuck
Hawkypuck Senior Member • Posts: 1,482
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

RLight wrote:

https://snapshot.canon-asia.com/article/eng/eos-r50

https://kr.canon/product/content/detail/00C4AB6F21E646576C2CD4222A55ADCE

https://kr.canon/product/content/detail/87B03FE4EA31EE4AA031CD26A2E744D6

What i don't like is that ML cameras are becoming smaller, mostly, and that is not nice gor us big-handed people!

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drsnoopy Senior Member • Posts: 1,216
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
1

abruzzopat wrote:

Interesting that the R lens is 2/3 stop slower than the M lens from 6 years ago. Unless I'm mistaken... keep me honest here.

1/3 stop slower.

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Sittatunga Veteran Member • Posts: 5,406
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

Hawkypuck wrote:

What i don't like is that ML cameras are becoming smaller, mostly, and that is not nice gor us big-handed people!

For instance,  https://camerasize.com/compact/#863,904,ha,t

drsnoopy Senior Member • Posts: 1,216
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
1

Someone above compares the new RF-S 55-210 unfavourably to the EF-S 55-250 STM.  Though a fine lens, it is considerably bigger, heavier and longer, especially with the adapter added. You can’t really compare them.

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SR Hadden Regular Member • Posts: 292
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
1

In general, the bigger problem with small cameras and big hands has more to do with having tiny, flat buttons than the size of the camera itself. Buttons should be as large as reasonably possible and raised (for use with gloves), preferably convex or a mix of convex, concave and flat so they can be easily identified by feel. And ideally, lighted.

drsnoopy Senior Member • Posts: 1,216
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
5

rz64 wrote:

RLight wrote:

abruzzopat wrote:

Interesting that the R lens is 2/3 stop slower than the M lens from 6 years ago. Unless I'm mistaken... keep me honest here.

1/3 stop I believe. At 210mm though.. I suspect it’s f/7.1 @ 200mm as well though.

They kept the form factor and weight, which is the point of M. And the cost, if you count the R50.

Concerning form factor and weight: No R-system is as small and light as the M.

Concerning costs: No R-system is as affordable as the M.

Earning more money is the only reason Canon wants you to attract to the R. But where are comparable lenses to the 11-22, 22, 32, Sigma 56mm?

For me, M remains the perfect system for walking and traveling.

Then it’s just as well there’s a choice.  Realistically, the R50 is a beginner/vlogger camera a bit like the M50.  The M6ii is in a different league - I tried one but much prefer a VF over using the screen, especially for long lenses, and I dislike the add-on EVF, as do several others I know.  I owned an original M when it first came out, then an M5 but found it slow in use and fiddly to operate even though I have medium size hands, so I sold it.  I’ve always been a FF dSLR user, and now have an R5 and many lenses, so for lightweight use I bought an R10 and the 18-150, which suits me very well.

So I’m glad there’s now a different choice as the M series really didn’t work for me, despite its many attractions.  I also appreciate the ability to use all my lenses in the “small camera” without an adapter.

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m100
m100 Senior Member • Posts: 2,048
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

abruzzopat wrote:

Interesting that the R lens is 2/3 stop slower than the M lens from 6 years ago. Unless I'm mistaken... keep me honest here.

It is slower. Also heavier, which this ad seems to highlight as if it’s a feature.

However, you do get extra 10mm on the long end!

No, you gain a control ring, better macro ability and 10mm. Not bad.

Indeed, a little better!

(If I get the R50, I will likely get it with the kit including the 55-210, since I do like the M version of this)

By itself, the two lens kit, this is nice. The real question is will Canon do more crop glass? The 11-22mm is the one they need-need. By sheer coincidence I just told Canon that on a random survey. Guess they care when you drop 6 grand on a body alone. They should, I’d do it again if they gave me what I want… I’m not convinced they will is the trouble. I’m split on R8 or R50, or just wait it out. Dare I say Nikon might beat ‘em to the punch.

They do need more RF-S glass. While I have the 11-22 and like it, my most used M lens is the 32mm. I do hope they give us some fast RF-S lenses and don’t limit them to slow, “cheap” ones.

People will stone me for saying this but the RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM is good stuff. They have this covered with FF glass already. 11-22? Nope.

Folks forget the R50 can take an RF 50 and it becomes an 80, a 35 becomes a 56. And the center of those lenses are sharp too.

The 32mm is about 2 stops away from the RF 35mm in sharpness ?

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=1224&Camera=1221&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=4&LensComp=1228&CameraComp=1078&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=3

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MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 18,487
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

drsnoopy wrote:

rz64 wrote:

RLight wrote:

abruzzopat wrote:

Interesting that the R lens is 2/3 stop slower than the M lens from 6 years ago. Unless I'm mistaken... keep me honest here.

1/3 stop I believe. At 210mm though.. I suspect it’s f/7.1 @ 200mm as well though.

They kept the form factor and weight, which is the point of M. And the cost, if you count the R50.

Concerning form factor and weight: No R-system is as small and light as the M.

Concerning costs: No R-system is as affordable as the M.

Earning more money is the only reason Canon wants you to attract to the R. But where are comparable lenses to the 11-22, 22, 32, Sigma 56mm?

For me, M remains the perfect system for walking and traveling.

Then it’s just as well there’s a choice. Realistically, the R50 is a beginner/vlogger camera a bit like the M50. The M6ii is in a different league - I tried one but much prefer a VF over using the screen, especially for long lenses, and I dislike the add-on EVF, as do several others I know. I owned an original M when it first came out, then an M5 but found it slow in use and fiddly to operate even though I have medium size hands, so I sold it. I’ve always been a FF dSLR user, and now have an R5 and many lenses, so for lightweight use I bought an R10 and the 18-150, which suits me very well.

So I’m glad there’s now a different choice as the M series really didn’t work for me, despite its many attractions. I also appreciate the ability to use all my lenses in the “small camera” without an adapter.

you have the RF F4L zoom trinity which is great.

have you thought about upgrading your RP to R8 to be quicker, for better focus and noise and dynamic range?

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justmeMN Forum Pro • Posts: 10,705
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
5

At least they didn't just discontinue the M50, without offering an R replacement.

For the price and target audience, the R50 seems like a nice camera.

m100
m100 Senior Member • Posts: 2,048
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
2

justmeMN wrote:

At least they didn't just discontinue the M50, without offering an R replacement.

For the price and target audience, the R50 seems like a nice camera.

The new kit lens is about a stop behind the old kit lens in sharpness ?

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=1621&Camera=1619&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=2&LensComp=1114&CameraComp=812&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=1

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Larry Rexley Senior Member • Posts: 1,238
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
2

m100 wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

At least they didn't just discontinue the M50, without offering an R replacement.

For the price and target audience, the R50 seems like a nice camera.

The new kit lens is about a stop behind the old kit lens in sharpness ?

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=1621&Camera=1619&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=2&LensComp=1114&CameraComp=812&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=1

The copy of the RF-S 18-45 tested there seems particularly bad. If that's the performance of that lens, quite disappointing. If it's copy variation like the EF-M 15-45 had, also disappointing.

The RF-S 18-150 tested on that page seems to have very similar performance to the EF-M version, not surprising. The 18-150 is the one I'd go for.

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MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 18,487
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

Larry Rexley wrote:

m100 wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

At least they didn't just discontinue the M50, without offering an R replacement.

For the price and target audience, the R50 seems like a nice camera.

The new kit lens is about a stop behind the old kit lens in sharpness ?

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=1621&Camera=1619&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=2&LensComp=1114&CameraComp=812&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=1

The copy of the RF-S 18-45 tested there seems particularly bad. If that's the performance of that lens, quite disappointing. If it's copy variation like the EF-M 15-45 had, also disappointing.

The RF-S 18-150 tested on that page seems to have very similar performance to the EF-M version, not surprising. The 18-150 is the one I'd go for.

+1

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m100
m100 Senior Member • Posts: 2,048
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
1

Larry Rexley wrote:

m100 wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

At least they didn't just discontinue the M50, without offering an R replacement.

For the price and target audience, the R50 seems like a nice camera.

The new kit lens is about a stop behind the old kit lens in sharpness ?

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=1621&Camera=1619&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=2&LensComp=1114&CameraComp=812&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=1

The copy of the RF-S 18-45 tested there seems particularly bad. If that's the performance of that lens, quite disappointing. If it's copy variation like the EF-M 15-45 had, also disappointing.

The RF-S 18-150 tested on that page seems to have very similar performance to the EF-M version, not surprising. The 18-150 is the one I'd go for.

The RF-S 18-150mm is fast to get focus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHjyA15ZMFM

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KEG
KEG Veteran Member • Posts: 4,908
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

davidwien wrote:

„People will stone me for saying this but the RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM is good stuff.“

Yes; it is indeed!

My favorite RF lens.

David

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KEG

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Alastair Norcross
Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 9,874
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
3

MAC wrote:

Ali wrote:

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

abruzzopat wrote:

Interesting that the R lens is 2/3 stop slower than the M lens from 6 years ago. Unless I'm mistaken... keep me honest here.

It is slower. Also heavier, which this ad seems to highlight as if it’s a feature.

However, you do get extra 10mm on the long end!

No, you gain a control ring, better macro ability and 10mm. Not bad.

Indeed, a little better!

(If I get the R50, I will likely get it with the kit including the 55-210, since I do like the M version of this)

By itself, the two lens kit, this is nice. The real question is will Canon do more crop glass? The 11-22mm is the one they need-need. By sheer coincidence I just told Canon that on a random survey. Guess they care when you drop 6 grand on a body alone. They should, I’d do it again if they gave me what I want… I’m not convinced they will is the trouble. I’m split on R8 or R50, or just wait it out. Dare I say Nikon might beat ‘em to the punch.

They do need more RF-S glass. While I have the 11-22 and like it, my most used M lens is the 32mm. I do hope they give us some fast RF-S lenses and don’t limit them to slow, “cheap” ones.

People will stone me for saying this but the RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM is good stuff. They have this covered with FF glass already. 11-22? Nope.

Folks forget the R50 can take an RF 50 and it becomes an 80, a 35 becomes a 56. And the center of those lenses are sharp too.

Well, sure, but the RF 35mm is larger and heavier than the EF-M 32mm, and I do love the f/1.4.

FF lenses can lose their luster on crop - RLight has no experience with that lens on crop

But I do, on my R7, and it performs very well. Much as I love the EF-M 32 on my M6II, I wouldn't buy an RF-S version for my R7, because the RF 35 is so good already. What it loses in aperture (2/3 stop), it gains in minimum focus and IS. I can handhold the 35 on my R7 down to 1/2s. With my 32 on my M6II, I don't go lower than 1/125.

the m32 f1.4 on 32.5 mpxl m6II is incredible across the frame

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drsnoopy Senior Member • Posts: 1,216
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud

MAC wrote:

drsnoopy wrote:

rz64 wrote:

RLight wrote:

abruzzopat wrote:

Interesting that the R lens is 2/3 stop slower than the M lens from 6 years ago. Unless I'm mistaken... keep me honest here.

1/3 stop I believe. At 210mm though.. I suspect it’s f/7.1 @ 200mm as well though.

They kept the form factor and weight, which is the point of M. And the cost, if you count the R50.

Concerning form factor and weight: No R-system is as small and light as the M.

Concerning costs: No R-system is as affordable as the M.

Earning more money is the only reason Canon wants you to attract to the R. But where are comparable lenses to the 11-22, 22, 32, Sigma 56mm?

For me, M remains the perfect system for walking and traveling.

Then it’s just as well there’s a choice. Realistically, the R50 is a beginner/vlogger camera a bit like the M50. The M6ii is in a different league - I tried one but much prefer a VF over using the screen, especially for long lenses, and I dislike the add-on EVF, as do several others I know. I owned an original M when it first came out, then an M5 but found it slow in use and fiddly to operate even though I have medium size hands, so I sold it. I’ve always been a FF dSLR user, and now have an R5 and many lenses, so for lightweight use I bought an R10 and the 18-150, which suits me very well.

So I’m glad there’s now a different choice as the M series really didn’t work for me, despite its many attractions. I also appreciate the ability to use all my lenses in the “small camera” without an adapter.

you have the RF F4L zoom trinity which is great.

have you thought about upgrading your RP to R8 to be quicker, for better focus and noise and dynamic range?

Along with my R5 I do have the RP and I’m very satisfied with it, though an R8 would be a nice second FF body when they  become readily available.  But the little R10 is so small and light, I just drop it in my small daypack, for hiking/skiing/cycling, and it can do extra duty as a teleconverter…plus I got it for an unbeatable price.

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sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 20,562
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
2

ILCs are kind of dumb for vlogging IMO.

Camera makers are only leaning into them because they have given up on fixed lens cameras.

Something like a G7X or RX100 with an UWA zoom lens, flip up screen, good video focused IBIS and a big battery would make way more sense. And realistically probably be as if not more profitable- I sincerely doubt anyone buying an R50 is going to buy anything beyond the kit lenses it comes with. And there's not even an RF-S UWA lens available 🤦‍♂️

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MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 18,487
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
1

Alastair Norcross wrote:

MAC wrote:

Ali wrote:

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

abruzzopat wrote:

Interesting that the R lens is 2/3 stop slower than the M lens from 6 years ago. Unless I'm mistaken... keep me honest here.

It is slower. Also heavier, which this ad seems to highlight as if it’s a feature.

However, you do get extra 10mm on the long end!

No, you gain a control ring, better macro ability and 10mm. Not bad.

Indeed, a little better!

(If I get the R50, I will likely get it with the kit including the 55-210, since I do like the M version of this)

By itself, the two lens kit, this is nice. The real question is will Canon do more crop glass? The 11-22mm is the one they need-need. By sheer coincidence I just told Canon that on a random survey. Guess they care when you drop 6 grand on a body alone. They should, I’d do it again if they gave me what I want… I’m not convinced they will is the trouble. I’m split on R8 or R50, or just wait it out. Dare I say Nikon might beat ‘em to the punch.

They do need more RF-S glass. While I have the 11-22 and like it, my most used M lens is the 32mm. I do hope they give us some fast RF-S lenses and don’t limit them to slow, “cheap” ones.

People will stone me for saying this but the RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM is good stuff. They have this covered with FF glass already. 11-22? Nope.

Folks forget the R50 can take an RF 50 and it becomes an 80, a 35 becomes a 56. And the center of those lenses are sharp too.

Well, sure, but the RF 35mm is larger and heavier than the EF-M 32mm, and I do love the f/1.4.

FF lenses can lose their luster on crop - RLight has no experience with that lens on crop

But I do, on my R7, and it performs very well. Much as I love the EF-M 32 on my M6II, I wouldn't buy an RF-S version for my R7, because the RF 35 is so good already. What it loses in aperture (2/3 stop), it gains in minimum focus and IS. I can handhold the 35 on my R7 down to 1/2s. With my 32 on my M6II, I don't go lower than 1/125.

the R7 + RF 35 isn't exactly a small setup like the m6II + 32 f1.4

I agree on the ss you discussed

I'm not convinced on the sharp across the frame wide open on that lens without stopping down a bit, and the backdrop blur I want is ff equivalent of 50 fov f2.2 not having to stop down a bit

but as far as sharp across the frame at f1.4 (50 fov f2.2 equivalent), I'll stay with my m32 f1.4 and m6II since I'm not buying a crop R camera, which I think is for reach with long lenses, wildlife and sports

the m32 f1.4 on 32.5 mpxl m6II is incredible across the frame

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MikeJ9116 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,955
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
2

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

abruzzopat wrote:

Interesting that the R lens is 2/3 stop slower than the M lens from 6 years ago. Unless I'm mistaken... keep me honest here.

It is slower. Also heavier, which this ad seems to highlight as if it’s a feature.

However, you do get extra 10mm on the long end!

No, you gain a control ring, better macro ability and 10mm. Not bad.

Indeed, a little better!

(If I get the R50, I will likely get it with the kit including the 55-210, since I do like the M version of this)

By itself, the two lens kit, this is nice. The real question is will Canon do more crop glass? The 11-22mm is the one they need-need. By sheer coincidence I just told Canon that on a random survey. Guess they care when you drop 6 grand on a body alone. They should, I’d do it again if they gave me what I want… I’m not convinced they will is the trouble. I’m split on R8 or R50, or just wait it out. Dare I say Nikon might beat ‘em to the punch.

They do need more RF-S glass. While I have the 11-22 and like it, my most used M lens is the 32mm. I do hope they give us some fast RF-S lenses and don’t limit them to slow, “cheap” ones.

People will stone me for saying this but the RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM is good stuff. They have this covered with FF glass already. 11-22? Nope.

Folks forget the R50 can take an RF 50 and it becomes an 80, a 35 becomes a 56. And the center of those lenses are sharp too.

The RF 35mm f/1.8 has IS.  I would rather has it than a version of the EF-M 32mm on the R50.  IS on a 1.8 lens is better than zero stabilization with a 1.4 lens, IMO.  Also, as you mentioned, the RF FF lenses are sharp in the center which is the part of the image circle an APS-C sensor will use.

Alastair Norcross
Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 9,874
Re: …Said the quiet part out loud
1

MAC wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

MAC wrote:

Ali wrote:

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

RLight wrote:

Ali wrote:

abruzzopat wrote:

Interesting that the R lens is 2/3 stop slower than the M lens from 6 years ago. Unless I'm mistaken... keep me honest here.

It is slower. Also heavier, which this ad seems to highlight as if it’s a feature.

However, you do get extra 10mm on the long end!

No, you gain a control ring, better macro ability and 10mm. Not bad.

Indeed, a little better!

(If I get the R50, I will likely get it with the kit including the 55-210, since I do like the M version of this)

By itself, the two lens kit, this is nice. The real question is will Canon do more crop glass? The 11-22mm is the one they need-need. By sheer coincidence I just told Canon that on a random survey. Guess they care when you drop 6 grand on a body alone. They should, I’d do it again if they gave me what I want… I’m not convinced they will is the trouble. I’m split on R8 or R50, or just wait it out. Dare I say Nikon might beat ‘em to the punch.

They do need more RF-S glass. While I have the 11-22 and like it, my most used M lens is the 32mm. I do hope they give us some fast RF-S lenses and don’t limit them to slow, “cheap” ones.

People will stone me for saying this but the RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM is good stuff. They have this covered with FF glass already. 11-22? Nope.

Folks forget the R50 can take an RF 50 and it becomes an 80, a 35 becomes a 56. And the center of those lenses are sharp too.

Well, sure, but the RF 35mm is larger and heavier than the EF-M 32mm, and I do love the f/1.4.

FF lenses can lose their luster on crop - RLight has no experience with that lens on crop

But I do, on my R7, and it performs very well. Much as I love the EF-M 32 on my M6II, I wouldn't buy an RF-S version for my R7, because the RF 35 is so good already. What it loses in aperture (2/3 stop), it gains in minimum focus and IS. I can handhold the 35 on my R7 down to 1/2s. With my 32 on my M6II, I don't go lower than 1/125.

the R7 + RF 35 isn't exactly a small setup like the m6II + 32 f1.4

True, but the R50 with the 50 F1.8 is probably a bit smaller overall than the M6II with the Sigma 56. Not as good, but still quite useful.

I agree on the ss you discussed

I'm not convinced on the sharp across the frame wide open on that lens without stopping down a bit, and the backdrop blur I want is ff equivalent of 50 fov f2.2 not having to stop down a bit

but as far as sharp across the frame at f1.4 (50 fov f2.2 equivalent), I'll stay with my m32 f1.4 and m6II since I'm not buying a crop R camera, which I think is for reach with long lenses, wildlife and sports

Yes, I basically agree. But my point is that if you do have a crop RF camera for general purpose use, the 35 F1.8 works very well with it. Although I use my R7 mostly for action, I have used it with the 35 a bit for the automatic focus stacking. I used to use my M6II for that with the 32, but the R7 takes it to the next level, with actual stacking done in camera (not just the focus bracket). You still get to keep all the RAWs, if you want to, so you can do the stack in whatever program you want. But I have been very impressed with the in-camera stacking (they call it 'depth compositing') of the R7. I can do a handheld 20-25 shot stack in camera. Amazing!

the m32 f1.4 on 32.5 mpxl m6II is incredible across the frame

True. I find myself using the 22 and 56 more on my M6II, though. Not because the 32 isn't good. It's excellent. But because those two focal lengths suit my shooting better most of the time. The 56 1.4 on the M6II is an amazing portrait combo.

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“When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror, like the passengers in his car.” Jack Handey
Alastair
http://anorcross.smugmug.com
Equipment in profile

 Alastair Norcross's gear list:Alastair Norcross's gear list
Canon G7 X II Canon EOS M6 II Canon EOS R7 Canon EOS R6 Mark II Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro +24 more
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