Is it the lenses or the cameras?...... Panasonic aperture rings

Guy Parsons wrote:

Crazy Micro Four Thirds Dude wrote:

Guy Parsons wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Funkmon wrote:

But they have in body stabilization so who knows

An OMD Pen camera with an ability to use the Panny aperture ring would have a huge appeal to me.

Tedolph

That's where we part ways.

To me to reintroduce the aperture ring is a backward step.

Unless you need 3 controls. Once in a while it's nice to use ol' "m" mode! Many bodies carry the 2 dials, and when using a panasonic body everything is right there. Dials for shutter speed and ISO, and the ring for aperture, beautiful implementation!

The first system camera I met that had aperture control from the body was my wife's film Pentax SLR where when the lens ring was set to A I could twiddle the toggle lever around the shutter button when in aperture priority mode and alter the aperture setting. Way better to use than my Nikon where I needed to turn the darn ring on the lens.

Now of course with my E-P5 the rear dial with thumb applied does the needed aperture changes, so smooth.

How about a lesser PEN model, with one dial, surely you can see the use in that case?

Retro is good when it is useful but in this case (bringing back aperture rings) it is retro for retro's sake and seems more awkward to use.

Also seems deliberately left out, and that's simply sad. Why have a consortium?

Maybe Panasonic should have put in algorithms to ignore the manual focus clutch on Olympus lens.

They didn't though, because they want you to have the best experience with their camera, which might include another brands lens, you know, the whole consortium thingy again.

Maybe Panasonic should have some how locked the lens OIS, as to not be able to function on an Olympus body.

I get that none of us need the aperture ring, especially if we have a camera with two dials, and shoot in P, S, A. That being said,Leaving it non-functional just seems like a prick move, and another thing looking back to say of the two main brands, Panasonic has done more right by their customers, and maybe just another small touch of why they outlasted Olympus in the four thirds game.

Is there any other real defensive talking point to be made for a non-functional aperture ring, than "I don't personally use it?"

I like the idea of keeping things simple and the aperture ring has just added another complication. Now the ring on the camera has to talk back to the body to set the aperture when exposing or using DOF preview. Would it not be nicer to simply leave that as a function that operates from the body?

I'll have you as a guest to my house, and you can run the stop-watch to see how long my aperture change takes, we'll use my Kodak s1;)

I will run the stop watch for your e-p5, if of coarse, you don't think I will cheat on the stop watch to show you there is likely no difference, or such a small one it can be canceled out with the below...

If you do want to change your ISO, what method do you use by chance? I personally turn my rear dial, I suppose a button push, or toggle switch is not complicating, or taking up time.

I know I know, it's mostly old blokes who like the old film ways of doing things, but then I'm an old bloke as well and decided to like modernity.

This again is still the same overall talking point, "I don't use the aperture ring, because it doesn't fit my shooting style, with my particular camera in mind."

Yep, the 15mm leica aperture ring is redundant on an e-p5, in aperture priority mode. There's 2 dials for aperture and one for exposure comp and to control ISO and white balance I can set it up with a switch. Then switch it back.

Just 16mp and up...

E-m1 all 2 dials and a lever

E-m5ii 2 dials and a lever

E-m10 series and original e-m5 have two dials, but no lever.

Now, how about someone with an e-pl5 or 6 e-pm2, only a thumb wheel, ARing would be welcome here? (Thumb wheel also had dpad buttons, and was greatly implemented).

E-pl7/8/9/10 a dial only, and the thumb wheel turned to buttons..... Side note, wouldn't it have neen nice to keep the thumb wheel? The dial was definitely an upgrade from the thumb, but leaving out the thumb wheel was a bad design choice.... Especially considering it was every (digital) PEN before it. (Same goes for the e-p5, would have been able to assign it to ISO).

I will also say this, I do use the lens, and I do use the aperture ring, just on a gx85. I don't use it to feel nostalgic (pretty much started on mirrorless), I use it because it is an easier way to set up my camera, aperture ring, shutter speed front dial, and ISO rear dial.

I don't change my white balance around as often, and requiring less often changing, I don't mind a button press, but I do like to change ISO often, and having a 3rs control is nice.  The gx85 has the sweet button push making the rear dial 2 things, unfortunately it can only be assigned to exposure comp.

Crazy Micro Four Thirds Dude wrote:

Maybe someone more technical can help explain to me why the aperture rings don't work on Olympus bodies?

My initial assumption is that it's the Olympus camera that decided to leave it out.

Can't say I remember noticing it at the time but - from what I've read here....

https://cjo.info/classic-cameras/olympus-om707/

... it appears that Olympus began removing controls from their SLR lenses (other than for zooming) some 37 years ago, with the introduction of autofocus systems.

And yet, having subsequently been in at the creation of 4/3 and M4/3, they must have been aware of what the lens contacts of those mounts would allow?

Peter

Isola Verde wrote:

Crazy Micro Four Thirds Dude wrote:

Maybe someone more technical can help explain to me why the aperture rings don't work on Olympus bodies?

My initial assumption is that it's the Olympus camera that decided to leave it out.

Can't say I remember noticing it at the time but - from what I've read here....

https://cjo.info/classic-cameras/olympus-om707/

... it appears that Olympus began removing controls from their SLR lenses (other than for zooming) some 37 years ago, with the introduction of autofocus systems.

And yet, having subsequently been in at the creation of 4/3 and M4/3, they must have been aware of what the lens contacts of those mounts would allow?

Peter

That's kind of why I asked the question to start all this.  Panasonic had the aperture ring on 3/4 of the four thirds lenses.  I made sure to confirm they do not work on the e-5.  Just seems silly to me to not allow it to work.  Seems so obviously deliberate and I wasn't certain who's "fault" it was.  It seems like being a consortium is more of trying to cooperate, but I guess it means compete.

I get it, it's unnecessary, but that isn't really the point, I guess if it's extra work to add it in, that's one thing, and fine, I guess it passes, they don't want to give competitive advantage.

On the other hand, is it actually programmed into the camera bodies to purposely not recognize the ring?  If that is the case, then that's kinda shameful business practice.

I am not technically inclined enough to know how to find out if that's the case, either way, it seems like something so small, it is very suspiciously on purpose, IMO.

Particularly on GX85 (and later models as well except the GFs), there is the Dial Operation Switch (DOS) which can be assigned to any fn key.

Hit the DOS assigned key, we can put a feature to each of the front and rear dial.

Therefore, on my GX85 and G85, I assigned the ISO and 4K photo mode (it can actually be anything, just have nothing more urgent to put there) to the front and rear dial respectively. In case of GX85, DOS has been assigned to fn3 for the convenince of reaching by my right thumb.

As a result, the front and rear dial, together with DOS on fn3 and clickable rear dial, I can actually control 7 features by these two dials having my eye staying on the evf...

Guy Parsons wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Guy Parsons wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Funkmon wrote:

But they have in body stabilization so who knows

An OMD Pen camera with an ability to use the Panny aperture ring would have a huge appeal to me.

Tedolph

That's where we part ways.

To me to reintroduce the aperture ring is a backward step.

Yes, backwards. That is what we want.

Backwards like Fuji.

OK, stone age photo gear appeals to the average old fogey, but not to me.

The first system camera I met that had aperture control from the body was my wife's film Pentax SLR where when the lens ring was set to A I could twiddle the toggle lever around the shutter button when in aperture priority mode and alter the aperture setting. Way better to use than my Nikon where I needed to turn the darn ring on the lens.

That was obviously the work of the Devil!

No, simply some designer being clever and trying to make life easier and more predictable.

Now of course with my E-P5 the rear dial with thumb applied does the needed aperture changes, so smooth.

So, you could se the dual wheels to aperture and shutter speed but you still can not reat them from above when the camera is off.

When the camera is off I fail to see why I need to know the settings.

I use a camera when it is on and I set what I need as I need it, usually the turn-on default MySet I use is all I need anyway. That settings stuff appears on the back screen and I fiddle the settings as needed.

That is the advantage of dedicated shutter speed dials and aperture rings.

It's for old fogeys with questionable eyesight and who are generally befuddled by these modern all electronic picture taking thingies.

Though it seems most of them have gone over to smartphones now anyway, so where's the knobs to twiddle there?

This is what God intended.

Who?

Retro is good when it is useful but in this case (bringing back aperture rings) it is retro for retro's sake and seems more awkward to use.

See above.

Tedolph,

Earthly Spokesperson for God.

Well go tell him/her/it to make more sense with camera design.

You take everything so seriously.

Tedolph

I used to have an Olympus E-M10 with the 12mm, 17mm, 12-40mm, plus a Panasonic GM5 with the PL15mm. The Olympus lenses all have the AF/MF clutch where pulling back the focus ring switches the lens and camera from AF to MF and reveals distance/DOF scales. On the EM-10, peaking would also be activated. push the ring forward again and the camera and lens are back in AF mode.

In addition to the AF/MF clutch, the Fn button on the 12-40mm will not work on a Panasonic body. Basically, while each M43 consortium member must allow a set of standard features to operate between any M43 body and lens, they are not obligated to allow special features on competitors lenses or bodies to work with their gear.

The lens is part of the camera.  you can't take a picture without it.  They are not two separate things.

John

kcdogger wrote:

The lens is part of the camera. you can't take a picture without it. They are not two separate things.

This is deep.....very deep.

Tedolph will have to meditate on this.

John

Tedolph

Guy Parsons wrote:

tedolf wrote:

kcdogger wrote:

The lens is part of the camera. you can't take a picture without it. They are not two separate things.

This is deep.....very deep.

Not so deep, in my dry cabinet I have a tray of bodies with no lenses, and under that a tray of lenses with no bodies.

They only come together in whatever combination when a photo is needed.

So they can exist in reality as solo separated items and be happy, but they are happier when they are together.

Tedolph will have to meditate on this.

Om mani padme om, gets the OM part right as the new owner of Olympus camera technology.

Namaste, chaiiiiiii

TEdolph

Tom Caldwell wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Funkmon wrote:

I've always wanted it. The white is cool.

Very interesting that the aperture ring works on the Kodak S1.

Did Panasonic make it for them under private label?

Tedolph

I doubt it, but mechanical lens aperture changes sent to the camera body are probably in the M4/3 specification and Olympus could have implemented this but chose not to do so.

Perhaps after they chose to control the lens aperture exclusively from the camera body they did not wish the option to do so to become a need for Olympus users to have mechanical lens aperture control on Olympus lenses. To do so would have complicated the design of all their lenses so equipped.

So this is the way we do it and no diversions ....

....and if you don't like it don't support us!  Done, Olympus Has Fallen.