... Comparison #1- DP2S vs DP2X vs DP2M

... DP2S arrived today. Interested to see the difference in images between these three cameras. Tried to take them as close together as possible. Spent quite a while trying to balance WB, saturation, exposure.

... Appreciate any thoughts or comments.

... #1 DP2S  #2 DP2X  #3 DP2M

Iain G Foulds wrote:

... DP2S arrived today. Interested to see the difference in images between these three cameras. Tried to take them as close together as possible. Spent quite a while trying to balance WB, saturation, exposure.

... Appreciate any thoughts or comments.

... #1 DP2S #2 DP2X #3 DP2M

My first reaction was that the DP2S seemed to have bit of a turquoise/cyan tint, the DP2X skewed magenta, and the Merrill seemed more natural. The Merrill clearly outresolves the other two by a country and city mile combined.  Right off the bat the winner without question was the Merrill.

I brought them into my ACR for further study.  Checking white balance with the dropper on the snow, both the dP2S and Merrill were close to neutral.  The DP2x took a -30 tint correction confirming my impression that it had a magenta cast.  Correcting it made the building look odd though.  You said you worked on correcting the white balance so I don't know if this is something you did to the DP2X or if it is just more off key to begin with.  Might have been good to shoot each in auto or daylight and let the result be.  Don't we want to see the camera's output?  Maybe just convert using the same default settings.  You did get the exposures very close.

Regardless of any further experimentation, I take the Merrill.  It is straightforward and clear with excellent detail and a natural feel (for me).

... Brev: Good observations, and appreciate your choice.

... To be fair, and at the risk of revealing my own poor processing skills, here are the converted originals.

DP2S

DP2X

DP2M

... Slight tint aside, I immediately prefered the "S" image. It seemed a much wider, more pleasing, and more subtle colour palette. It was by far the easiest to work with, and I did almost nothing to it. (To be fair, it takes a long time to learn to get the best from a new sensor).

... Spent far too long on the X and M. Just don't like their colouring. Back and forth with the WB and HSL- really trying to bring them up to the S. (Reconsidering, they were probably best left alone).

... Time to learn the S. If it comes down to a decision between resolution and colour, colour will win almost every time.

Iain G Foulds wrote:

... DP2S arrived today. Interested to see the difference in images between these three cameras. Tried to take them as close together as possible. Spent quite a while trying to balance WB, saturation, exposure.

... Appreciate any thoughts or comments.

... #1 DP2S #2 DP2X #3 DP2M

Spontaneously I prefer picture #1 (DP2s). It may be a bit green but I like the overall impression best.

But the light and the clouds are different from picture to picture so the comparison is not easy to make.

The Merrill has the advantage of higher resolution but seems a bit too contrasty for my taste. But maybe with different raw processing this could change.

Generally I find it interesting to see the moiré on the fence. I would be curious to see how a high resolution bayer camera would cope with that motive.

Thanks, Iain, for this interesting comparison.

… Grateful to have the confirmation of you both in preferring the DP2S. My processing time was spent trying to bring the other two up to the quality of image in the earlier model.

… Hulyss: And appreciate your explanation of the sufficiency of the resolution of the earlier Foveons- particularly with today’s excellent upscaling software. (One thing I did learn from the experiment is that the DP2S can easily take a bit of sharpening and contrast to increase the apparent resolution.)

Another vote for the DP2s.

You really don't need to do much with this camera to get great output.

I normally leave the camera in sun/daylight WB and typically add +2M in the colour wheel to reduce the slight cyan cast.

Skin tones come out fantastic (similarly like in the older Fuji cameras), and the colours are most pleasing (but not realistic - for that you do need the DP2 Merrill).

I never liked the output of the DP2x which I owned only very briefly. This camera is quite famous for its magenta cast in auto WB and also for the AFE issues..

DP2 Merrill has very realistic colours but its overall rendering is not nearly as pleasing as the DP2s IMHO.

The DP2 classic has cooler colours than the DP2s, so with the DP2s you do have the best of the bunch.

Hulyss Bowman wrote:

The foveon render each pixels (with no real bleeding) in a way which is more pleasing for a printer. The command to the printer is more clear for each dot and avoid informations who lead to smudges or heavy mixing of color in bayer.

… An excellent and important comment.

… Great comments… and appreciate the WB tip.

… Though, you will never get it past the technicians that the DP2S is simply “more pleasing”. Which is fine.

… I suspected, from the comments of others at this forum, that the DP2S would be my “most pleasing” camera, and early trials have confirmed this. Rushing off to work this morning, but couldn’t resist the rising light on the fresh snow. I know for certain that the DP2X and DP2M would have made a mess of it.

DP2S

Iain G Foulds wrote:

.... Slight tint aside, I immediately prefered the "S" image. It seemed a much wider, more pleasing, and more subtle colour palette. It was by far the easiest to work with, and I did almost nothing to it. (To be fair, it takes a long time to learn to get the best from a new sensor).

Not sure that I understand, Iain. All of your non-Merrills have the same sensor.

… Ted: Right. But tuned slightly differently, affecting WB and processing…?

Iain G Foulds wrote:

… Ted: Right. But tuned slightly differently, affecting WB and processing…?

Can't say for the DP2s.

The SD9 has "ImagerSettings":

BEGIN: CAMF property meta data (ImagerSettings)
"SFVdd_DAC" = "1.5"
"SFVddExp_DAC" = "0"
"PixVccRst_RED_DAC" = "1.3"
"PixVccRst_GRN_DAC" = "1.3"
"PixVccRst_BLU_DAC" = "1.3"
"PixVccExp_RED_DAC" = "1.3"
"PixVccExp_GRN_DAC" = "1.3"
"PixVccExp_BLU_DAC" = "1.3"
"PixVccLo_RED_DAC" = "0"
"PixVccLo_GRN_DAC" = "0"
"PixVccLo_BLU_DAC" = "0"
"VRstLo_DAC" = "0.3"
"VRstLoExp_DAC" = "1.3"
"VRstHi_DAC" = "1.4"
"BiasSettleTime" = "1000"
"PixVccLoTime" = "20000"
"ShutterDelayTime" = "0"
"ReadoutDelayRegister" = "136"
"ReadoutISM0" = "1"
"ReadoutISM1" = "2423847168"
"ReadoutISM1D" = "2423847424"
"ReadoutISM2" = "0"
"ReadoutISM3" = "0"
"ReadoutVDR0" = "0"
"ReadoutCols" = "2304"
"ReadoutRows" = "1536"
"GarbageRows" = "0"
"ReadoutStartCol" = "0"
"ReadoutStartRow" = "0"
"ReadoutStepCol" = "1"
"ReadoutStepRow" = "1"
"VPSCols" = "1"
"VPSRows" = "1"
"ResetStart" = "1700"
"ResetStep" = "0"
"MovieRowsPerFrame" = "0"
"ReadoutFormat" = "RGB36"
"ReadoutMode" = "SNAPSHOT"
"MinFrameTime" = "0"
END: CAMF property meta data

but no such for  the DPs ...

Interesting magenta tint to the DP2X which I don’t remember seeing from my camera or my SD15.  I have some snow photos in the archive that I’ll take a look at.

I don't recall the SD15 showing the magenta cast in auto wb, but the DP2x has it in spades. You can check the old reviews and this forum.

For example:

https://www.ephotozine.com/article/sigma-dp2x-x3-foveon-camera-review-16766

The crazy thing is that this happens also within SPP when the wb is set to auto.

Furthermore, due to AFE you can easily blow highlights with the DP2x. SPP versions 4 and later cover this up by imputing (i.e. guessing) the missing values, but when you use SPP 3.5.2 you see the full amount of the damage done. You can use SPP 3.5.2 perfectly fine with the DP2 and DP2s, and those two cameras do capture highlights much better.

The Merrill got only half of the exposure compared to the other models.
In this flat light conditions you could "over expose" the Merrill quiet a bit and then bring the brightness down in Sigma Photo Pro.
This would help to preserve colours in the shadows, especially if you turn off color noise reduction in SPP.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/136653525@N08/

… Appreciate all the good thoughts and suggestions. Making notes to get the best from the models. Apologies for my own inexperience causing any unfair bias against any models.

I beleive the various DP models have different IR filters. I am pretty sure I've read something about that the IR filter has changed from DP1 to DP1s.  Most likely the filter also changed from the DP2 to the DP2s.

That would accounts for some of the colour differences that can be observed.

Another difference is the metering, e.g the DP2s meters a bit more conservatively (protecting highlights) than the DP2.

allineedislight wrote:

I beleive the various DP models have different IR filters.

I didn't know that!

I am pretty sure I've read something about that the IR filter has changed from DP1 to DP1s. Most likely the filter also changed from the DP2 to the DP2s.

That would accounts for some of the colour differences that can be observed.

Another difference is the metering, e.g the DP2s meters a bit more conservatively (protecting highlights) than the DP2.

So, different Exposure Indices for a given ISO setting ...