Upgrade from E-PL1 and 17/2.8?

Hey guys! This is my E-PL1 camera that I picked up as part of a lot of cameras from Goodwill a few months ago.

I've actually been pretty surprised with how much I like it. I have a Nikon J1 from the same time period and while that camera has several things that are clearly superior to this guy, I still find that I think I like this one better. Maybe it's the IBIS on the Olympus that I'm really enojying.

Anyways, I've been using this little guy so much that I was able to justify selling of my X100V and using the founds to pick up a brand new Nikon Z7 that I love. Obviously though, the Z7 is in an entirely different class.

So now I'm thinking, since I really like the form factor of this camera I kind of want to get something that's similar but a bit more modern.

Kind of thinking out loud here but, I've narrowed that down to the E-P5, E-P7, or E-PL10.

The other question is the lens, is this the best pancake type lens available? Are there other options that are similar? The only other one I've noticed is the Panasonic 20mm F1.7.

So out of the three camera options above, what do you think would be the best option?

The EP-5 seems like the best deal, the EP-7 is the most modern (but not much information available), and the E-PL10 is the most modern that's available here in the states. Alternatively, should I maybe consider the Ricoh GR IIIX instead?

While we're on it, does any know of any good reviews of the EP-7? I'm kind of struggling to find much about this except that it clearly looks better on the spec sheet.

It's the E-PL1 that got me into the MFT system, because I really liked the form factor. Eventually, I upgraded the E-PL1 to the E-P5 which I still own and occasionally shoot today if I need to use the VF4. I chose it because at the time, it was sold as a kit with the VF-4 (excellent external viewfinder which can turn itself into a waist level finder like how I loved to shoot with the Hassy or the Bronica medium format film cameras) and the 17mm f/1.8 lens. I sold the 17mm lens. Nothing else in the current Olympus lineup supports an electronic waist level finder like the E-P5, except the E-M1 (a SLR type body) which is another 16MP camera with PDAF.  This makes the E-P5 very unique for a range finder camera that has the port for the VF-4. Also, the E-P5 was then Olympus top of the line 16MP range finder camera, but lacking PDAF and has a premium built to it. It's also considered a collector's item next to the PEN-F that was supposedly the replacement for the E-P5. Anyways, I love my E-P5 even though I have better MFT cameras now that smokes it, but is really considered the best bang for the buck for its features premium built. Be forewarned that dirt cheap used E-P5s usually have problems such as the on/off switch and the command dials not working properly. Thankfully, my over 10 years old E-P5 had never suffered such problems yet.

The E-PL10 is a stripped down 16MP camera and if you find the E-PL1 works for you, then the E-PL10 can be its replacement. The E-P7 is only available in the Asian market, which I was told is a stripped down version of the PEN-F without the viewfinder. If you want an electronic viewfinder, the North American equivalent is the OMD E-M10 Mark IV. If you want an E-P7, your best bet is to shop on eBay and find one from the many Japanese dealers that sell them.

I don't have the experience with the 17mm f/2.8 lens, but if you plan to get the 20mm f/1.7 lens, consider getting the Mark II version. It has improved AF speed. The original one is a bit slow, though optically it is amazingly sharp. 20mm isn't my favourite FL, so I have the 25mm PanaLeica version which I use a lot.

Hope this helps.

thisisbenji wrote:

Hey guys! This is my E-PL1 camera that I picked up as part of a lot of cameras from Goodwill a few months ago.

Cool! A blast from the past!

I've actually been pretty surprised with how much I like it. I have a Nikon J1 from the same time period and while that camera has several things that are clearly superior to this guy, I still find that I think I like this one better. Maybe it's the IBIS on the Olympus that I'm really enojying.

Anyways, I've been using this little guy so much that I was able to justify selling of my X100V and using the founds to pick up a brand new Nikon Z7 that I love. Obviously though, the Z7 is in an entirely different class.

So now I'm thinking, since I really like the form factor of this camera I kind of want to get something that's similar but a bit more modern.

Kind of thinking out loud here but, I've narrowed that down to the E-P5, E-P7, or E-PL10.

The other question is the lens, is this the best pancake type lens available? Are there other options that are similar? The only other one I've noticed is the Panasonic 20mm F1.7.

So out of the three camera options above, what do you think would be the best option?

Maybe check out the Panasonic GX9. Similar form factor, but with an EVF, which also tilts. Nice feature! It has a 20MP sensor, which is an improvement over the older 16MP sensor that the EP5 has.

The Panasonic 20mm f1.7 is a solid choice. There are also the Olympus 17mm f1.8 and Pana/Leica 15mm f1.7 (best lens of this bunch)

The GX9 generally come in an $800 kit with a 12-60mm f3.5-5.6 kit lens (B&H in NYC), which is quite good, in fact. You could easily sell the zoom lens and get one of the primes.

The EP-5 seems like the best deal, the EP-7 is the most modern (but not much information available), and the E-PL10 is the most modern that's available here in the states. Alternatively, should I maybe consider the Ricoh GR IIIX instead?

The EP5 may be hard to find. It’s listed as discontinued at B&H. The have some on Amazon. EP7 is Asia-only as far as I know. People seem to love the GRIIIx, except for the dust on the sensor problem.

Thanks for all of the input everyone!

It's definitely sounding like the EP5 might be the sweet spot.

I'll be using the camera mainly as something I carry as an EDC or while cycling, so the no-EVF form factor combined with a pancake prime and IBIS is what's most interesting to me. Once you step into bodies with a built-in EVF I find they start to get much more difficult to carry while cycling.

It's interesting to hear the EP7 is actually a step backwards in build quality from the EP5, I kind of figured it would be a step up in every way. However, looking at the specs again I can definitely see that there's a weight difference.

Looking at current pricing on eBay for body only it seems kind of like

• EP5 $300-450
• EP7: $600-650
• EPL10: $400-500

So given that it seems like most folks prefer the EP5 out of the bunch and that it's also likely going to be the cheapest due to it's age then it might be the way to go.

I am still curious if anyone has handled the EP7 and EPL10? Even if the EP7 build quality might be worse than the EP5, I wonder if it's still better put together than the EPL10? It's hard to tell online exactly how well built these things are.

thisisbenji wrote:

Thanks for all of the input everyone!

It's definitely sounding like the EP5 might be the sweet spot.

I'll be using the camera mainly as something I carry as an EDC or while cycling, so the no-EVF form factor combined with a pancake prime and IBIS is what's most interesting to me. Once you step into bodies with a built-in EVF I find they start to get much more difficult to carry while cycling.

If you're looking at the typical SLR/DSLR form factor with a faux pentaprism on top, definitely. The rangefinder style bodies with a built-in EVF are different animals. The PEN-F, GX9, GX85, GX8 to name a few.

I cycle with a GX8 within problems. I used to have a GX7, too. I'll generally carry it in a small DEUTER Race Air 10L cycling pack (with a 3 liter hydration bladder). I'll often carry a longer lens like a 50-200mm in addition to a more standard lens. I have a 12L Deuter cycling pack, to carry more stuff.

I am still curious if anyone has handled the EP7 and EPL10? Even if the EP7 build quality might be worse than the EP5, I wonder if it's still better put together than the EPL10? It's hard to tell online exactly how well built these things are.

I think the EPL10 is Asia-only, but I could be wrong. It''s probably worth checking eBay.

thisisbenji wrote:

Hey guys! This is my E-PL1 camera that I picked up as part of a lot of cameras from Goodwill a few months ago.

I've actually been pretty surprised with how much I like it. I have a Nikon J1 from the same time period and while that camera has several things that are clearly superior to this guy, I still find that I think I like this one better. Maybe it's the IBIS on the Olympus that I'm really enojying.

Whatever you do, don't get rid of it! There is something very nice about the way that old 12mp sensor and the JPEG engine renders colors. It is also a great body for adapted lenses.

Anyways, I've been using this little guy so much that I was able to justify selling of my X100V and using the founds to pick up a brand new Nikon Z7 that I love. Obviously though, the Z7 is in an entirely different class.

So now I'm thinking, since I really like the form factor of this camera I kind of want to get something that's similar but a bit more modern.

Kind of thinking out loud here but, I've narrowed that down to the E-P5, E-P7, or E-PL10.

The E-p5 is the spiritual successor to the E-pl1. It has the built in flash, EVF port, five axis IBIS and all the other modern goodies. The 16mp sensor gives a clean ISO 1600. Get the VF2 EVF-it will work on both cameras and you are now good to use telephoto lenses hand held.

The other question is the lens, is this the best pancake type lens available? Are there other options that are similar? The only other one I've noticed is the Panasonic 20mm F1.7.

Lots of small, fast prime lenses available. At least a half dozen.

So out of the three camera options above, what do you think would be the best option?

The EP-5 seems like the best deal,

Yep.

the EP-7 is the most modern (but not much information available),

doesn't have built in flash.

and the E-PL10 is the most modern that's available here in the states.

Doesn't have EVF port.

Alternatively, should I maybe consider the Ricoh GR IIIX instead?

E-pl1 is a better travel camera. So cheap it doesn't matter what happens to it.

While we're on it, does any know of any good reviews of the EP-7? I'm kind of struggling to find much about this except that it clearly looks better on the spec sheet.

Tedolph

It's fine. It's not as small as some of the others but has extra dials to make things easier. You should get it, or keep the old one and buy the new lens.

I am the same as you in that I like the form factor.

I shot exclusively an E-P3 and a 20mm Panasonic for years. Then the E-P3 got stolen and I replaced it with an EM10 and a 20mm lens. It's the only one I had or needed. I shot with that exclusively for 7 years until last year.

Last year I decided to really get back in to photography and build the lens collection and shoot with them.

I bought an EM1.3, an EM10, an E-P7, an EPM1 and EPM2, a GM1, etc, used, and then flipped the ones I didn't like.

I ended up with an EPM1, an EM1.3, an EP7, and a Panasonic GM1.

Here's why. Under no circumstances should you ever use one of the 16 megapixel sensors from Olympus. They can display banding that will ruin your image. Example.

You cannot remove this. It happens a lot with the 20 and it happens with other lenses too, especially in high ISO, but I included one with a 1.2 pro Olympus at low ISO.

You need the 20 megapixel sensor. Here is what the photos tend to look like. I've only done one notable session with the E-P7 and 20, since I leave it parked on another camera usually. Though I did buy another lens for this purpose recently.

I just recently picked up ANOTHER 20mm because it's so good. On the E-P7, I usually have the larger lenses going, and I have the 20 and GM1 in a pocket.

I use the E-P7 almost all the time now when I'm out and about. It has a flip down screen which is good for photographs. It focuses fast. It does 4k. The image stabilization is quite good, much better than people say. 2 seconds handheld is spotty, but reliable down to a half second. It's pretty much exactly the same camera as the EM10.4 so if you read reviews for that, it's that with an extra feature for color processing JPGs. Trust me. I've had both. It's the same. You will have to import it though.

The lens is great. It focuses slow like yours, but it was considered a reference lens. It's one of the sharpest available and has a shallower depth of field than the Ricoh GR3x, plus you'll have better image stabilization by a f-cking LONG SHOT. I have used it for everything. Architecture to environmental portraits to a snapshot of a couple of people at a bar last week for the past 10 years. And it's so good I have two of em now.

Context: tedolf strongly dislikes the newer Olympus cameras since they removed useful, albeit fringe features, like the EVF port and the ability to autofocus four thirds lenses, which will almost definitely not affect you.

I can't reproduce it reliably on anything but the 20. The other camera and lens combinations have it seemingly randomly, but they all do it occasionally. I've seen it on every Olympus 16 megapixel camera I've used, namely the EPL9(?), EPM2, EM5.1, EM10.2. I've sworn off the sensor.

The 20, just crank up the ISO to max and take some extremely low light photos and it's there virtually, but not always, all the time. It's only about 90% of it.

It didn't happen on this one, for example.

I've handled these. The build quality on the E-P7 is fine. It is massively lighter, which a lot of people associate with worse build quality. It doesn't creak or anything but it feels less solid. I consider the weight loss a benefit. It feels just as well put together as the heavier cameras, just but lighter. It's made of cheaper materials, but it's not bad at all, and its improved sensor and IS is huge for me.

To me it was an easy pick. I currently work at a used camera shop a couple times a week for fun so I get a lot of used older cameras in to play with in addition to the random ones I bought.

I agree the EP5 _feels_ more expensive. But I would never get it over the EP7 and lose 7 years of camera updates and tech.

I think many here on the forum have not used an EP7 and dislike it on principle, which I can appreciate, but it's a good camera and definitely worth the price over the old EP5.

Funkmon wrote:

Context: tedolf strongly dislikes the newer Olympus cameras since they removed useful, albeit fringe features, like the EVF port and the ability to autofocus four thirds lenses, which will almost definitely not affect you

Tedolph meant to say E-pl7, but yes Tedolph hates the E-p7 because it does not have the EVF port. An unforgivable sin.

Tedolph

thisisbenji wrote:

Hey guys! This is my E-PL1 camera that I picked up as part of a lot of cameras from Goodwill a few months ago.

I've actually been pretty surprised with how much I like it. I have a Nikon J1 from the same time period and while that camera has several things that are clearly superior to this guy, I still find that I think I like this one better. Maybe it's the IBIS on the Olympus that I'm really enojying.

Anyways, I've been using this little guy so much that I was able to justify selling of my X100V and using the founds to pick up a brand new Nikon Z7 that I love. Obviously though, the Z7 is in an entirely different class.

So now I'm thinking, since I really like the form factor of this camera I kind of want to get something that's similar but a bit more modern.

Kind of thinking out loud here but, I've narrowed that down to the E-P5, E-P7, or E-PL10.

The other question is the lens, is this the best pancake type lens available? Are there other options that are similar? The only other one I've noticed is the Panasonic 20mm F1.7.

So out of the three camera options above, what do you think would be the best option?

The EP-5 seems like the best deal, the EP-7 is the most modern (but not much information available), and the E-PL10 is the most modern that's available here in the states. Alternatively, should I maybe consider the Ricoh GR IIIX instead?

While we're on it, does any know of any good reviews of the EP-7? I'm kind of struggling to find much about this except that it clearly looks better on the spec sheet.

Hi,

I'm going to be upfront and say from the beginning that I'm a predominantly a Panasonic user. With that said, I do have the E-P5 (as well as the E-P1, E-P2 and E-P3). The E-P1 and E-P3 generally went unused. Not because they were worse than the other pens but...well, I had too many cameras to play. All the pens I bought used at ridiculous prices, all >$120. A number of them were that cheap because of the dial issues that seem to plague a number of Olympus models. Generally I cleaned them, and they all now work, more or less, albeit, E-P5 dials are still a little wonky but usable.

Historically, I started M43 with the Panasonic GF1 brand new. Picked up a number of models all used since...but my main stayed with the GF1...until I picked up the GX8 when it came out. And the GX8 is still my main camera. I have not felt any need to replace it. It's an incredible camera, but in your case, I think it's too large.

So...my current setup (which is rather fluid admittedly) is...

Main, GX8

When I want smaller, GX80 (same as GX85 but Euro version I believe) or the E-P5 with EVF.

And when I want even smaller, GM1. This little guy rocks! But in your case, probably lacks too many features...(EVF, IBIS, etc.)

I also carry the Ricoh GXR with M mount module plus a number of Voigtlander lenses when I feel artsy or the Sigma DP2 Merrill when I feel particularly artsy.

Personally, I do prefer the GX80 over the E-P5. The E-P5 is a FINE camera. Gorgeous to look at and feels very well built. The EVF on the pen is a must but to be honest, it is far inferior with the GX8 EVF (which is incredible). I do think it's better than the GX80 though, but to be honest, considering I'm so used to the GX8's EVF, I regulate the E-P5's EVF into the same realm as the one on the GX80...i.e. usable.

...the big thing that has always bothered me with all of the pens I have, including the E-P5...is that they simply feel...sluggish compared to my Panasonic cameras of the same era. I.e. GF1 with E-P1/E-P2, GX8 and GX80 with E-P3/E-P5 (never used the new E-P7). I'm sure the E-M1x's are far more snappy in comparison with the pens. Maybe this sluggishness is just  the bias I have. Now, this isn't too much of a big deal to me I suppose since the E-P5 is light years faster than my Sigma DP2M even though I love using my DP2M (my God, watching paint dry feels quicker! But the image it takes...it's worth it). So I'm not too bothered with the sluggishness. But if sports or fast moving kids are involved, I do pick others.

I also strongly prefer the rangefinder style look. Hate the center hump so, even though the E-P5 has that rangefinder style...the EVF (which I must have) makes it more DSLR like (in style). Beyond looks, the rangefinder style bodies are also far easier to put into small camera bags which I predominantly use. Hate how the hump just gets in the way. If they just make an pen with an inbuilt EVF I would be in heaven! Well, yes, there is the Pen-F...I just can't afford it (yet)

So, with all that said...E-P5 is a very nice camera...I just prefer the GX80 instead...most days...but the E-P5 is sure nice to look at, lol. Soooooo...in my biased POV, I would suggest taking a look at the GX80/GX85 or GX9. Small, sleek and very capable, even if the EVF leaves something to be desired...albeit, I would still take those over the E-P5 EVF because the GX's lack the hump.

Now lenses...

The Olympus 17mm 2.8...unlike a lot of people who complain here about it's poor optics, I never had a problem with its image quality. It wasn't gorgeous or special...just very much decent. Now, I did end up selling mine because...well, I just never used it. Or to be precise...I ALWAYS picked up my Panasonic 20mm 1.7 instead. And yes, AF is slow , noisy and sluggish. It does perform quicker and with more accuracy with more modern cameras though. The one thing that makes me reach for the 20mm is that, often, I would get images out of my 20mm that popped that the Oly 17mm just didn't (or many other m43 lenses). I also have the Panasonic 14mm which is TIIIINY...but to be honest, this also sits on the shelf too often.

Sooo...personally, I would highly recommend the 20mm. If the AF, sluggishness and noise doesn't bothers you, I would highly suggest the Panasonic 15mm 1.7 as well. Incredible lens with awesome images that I find to be, overall, better than the 20mm in almost all cases...except...for some reason, I do seem to get "more" images that pop with the 20mm. All the above (Panny 14, 20, 15 and Oly 17) are either pancake lenses or very small (15mm) so do prefer those lenses to larger ones which is why I haven't bothered with the Oly 17mm 1.8 which I hear is great. Now, the Oly 45mm 1.8 is a great tiny lens, you should look into that one as well.

A combo of the Panny 20mm or 15mm with the Oly 45mm 1.8 is an awesome tiny combo in my view.

So, yeah, this is the end of my blabbering meandering views Good luck