Strange image shake on R7

Hello all,

I'm new to the forum but have been shooting with Canon DSLRs for 15+ years. I just got an R7 a month or so ago and have noticed a strange thing with my images: there appears to be noticeable image shake even when the shutter speed should be high enough to avoid shake without IS. And the shake seen in the images isn't the smooth blur you often get with an unsteady hand but rather it's like a double image. Am I doing something wrong with the R7? Is there a setting I've missed or screwed up?

Below are 100% crops from the R7, all handheld at f/5.6 and 1/80th with focal lengths around 22-28mm (except the 100-500mm shots). I've used a variety of lenses (Canon EF-S 15-85mm, Canon EF-S 10-22mm, Canon EF 28mm f/1.8, and Canon RF 100-500mm) with the EF and EF-S lenses using a Canon EF-RF adapter.

F/5.6, 1/80th, ISO 800, 100% crop, 22mm

F/5.6, 1/80th, ISO 800, 100% crop, 22mm

F/5.6, 1/80th, ISO 800, 100% crop, 28mm

F/5.6, 1/80th, ISO 800, 100% crop, 22mm

F/5.6, 1/80th, ISO 800, 100% crop, 100mm

F/5.6, 1/80th, ISO 800, 100% crop, 100mm

What shutter mode are you using? The R7, like most other mirrorless cameras, can experience some shutter shock at those shutter speeds with full mechanical shutter.

I'm hearing this a bit too frequently. I have to wonder if Canon has made a bit of a design fib with the shutter stock and IBIS. They don't have that much experience with IBIS on cameras with fast rate and the smaller sensor is considerably lighter than FF...

Naturally just is just speculation with no hard facts behind it. It is just the kind of mistake that could be made and would explain these reports.

Alastair Norcross wrote:

What shutter mode are you using? The R7, like most other mirrorless cameras, can experience some shutter shock at those shutter speeds with full mechanical shutter.

I agree with Alastair. If you are using the mechanical shutter I recommend trying speeds of 1/200th or greater and see if it goes away. Also, you might want to try ES.

Hmm. I've been using electronic shutter in servo mode , H burst (not H+) and have found that in a group of several images at high shutter speeds over 1/500 sec on relatively static subjects some are out of focus. In fact they have virtually the same time stamp and also the whole image is blurred including the background.  I have also found that sometimes I can have a focus point on a flying bird on the eye and some frames are dead sharp but others it has jumped for no reason to the background yet the focus point is still showing on the eye on the playback image. This is with RF 100-400mm with IS and IBIS enabled. All rather odd.

J.K.T. wrote:

I'm hearing this a bit too frequently. I have to wonder if Canon has made a bit of a design fib with the shutter stock and IBIS. They don't have that much experience with IBIS on cameras with fast rate and the smaller sensor is considerably lighter than FF...

This isn't a Canon thing. Shutter shock is common with mechanical shutter on all cameras at certain shutter speeds with certain lenses. If this is shutter shock (we haven't heard back from the OP what the shutter mode was), this is perfectly normal. Shutter shock doesn't affect all lenses equally. For example, on the Canon M6II, I've only ever seen shutter shock on IS lenses, and even then the amount varies between lenses. The older the lens and IS mechanism, the more I'd be worried about shutter shock.

Naturally just is just speculation with no hard facts behind it.

Yes.

It is just the kind of mistake that could be made and would explain these reports.

If this is shutter shock, caused by mechanical shutter, there's no mistake. Canon included three different shutter modes on the R7. Use EFCS or e-shutter at the affected shutter speeds with the affected lenses. I never use full mechanical on my R7. There's no reason to, unless you're shooting at really high shutter speeds with very fast lenses (such as F1.4).

Dave C 150 wrote:

Hmm. I've been using electronic shutter in servo mode , H burst (not H+) and have found that in a group of several images at high shutter speeds over 1/500 sec on relatively static subjects some are out of focus. In fact they have virtually the same time stamp and also the whole image is blurred including the background. I have also found that sometimes I can have a focus point on a flying bird on the eye and some frames are dead sharp but others it has jumped for no reason to the background yet the focus point is still showing on the eye on the playback image. This is with RF 100-400mm with IS and IBIS enabled. All rather odd.

That is odd. I've never experienced that myself, and I've shot a lot in e-shutter in servo H burst mode and fast shutter speed. But whatever is going on with you, it's obviously different from what it going on with the OP.

Sorry to be off topic a bit but there are a mounting number of R7 AF issues threads. I'm still experimenting but there are a lot of variables that I can't get my head round. LIke today, to pass the time whilst a car passenger I turned off servo to single shot, turned off subject tracking, subject recognition and eye recognition. Put it on single point focus. Pointed it at the number plate ahead of the car going at about the same speed as us. Pointed and got white square over the number plate then pressed bbf to focus and it jumped with about 7 red squares straight to the centre reservation rails !! I can't find a way of covering something I want to shoot and it permanently staying there. What is going on? Then back on site and with the preferred settings from "Ron's" Whistling Straits video tried to get an owl not too far away flying slowly, against the sky. Seemed to get red squares over owl but on viewing not in focus and no focus points showing at all . Then a few seconds later against a fairly distant grass background it managed to focus on about three out of five in the burst.

Probably need a new thread.

Dave C 150 wrote:

Sorry to be off topic a bit but there are a mounting number of R7 AF issues threads. I'm still experimenting but there are a lot of variables that I can't get my head round. LIke today, to pass the time whilst a car passenger I turned off servo to single shot, turned off subject tracking, subject recognition and eye recognition. Put it on single point focus. Pointed it at the number plate ahead of the car going at about the same speed as us. Pointed and got white square over the number plate then pressed bbf to focus and it jumped with about 7 red squares straight to the centre reservation rails !!

That sounds like you had BBF set to engage other settings. If you are in one shot (not servo), no tracking and no eye detect, and using single spot (either small or big), the focus will stay inside that spot. I've just tried it with mine, and I can't induce it to focus on anything outside of the spot. If you're in one of the zone modes, you will see the multiple focus squares inside that zone (it has to pick something to focus on inside the zone), but nothing outside the zone. You should check your custom settings to see what you had the BBF button set to. This isn't a problem with the camera, but with your settings. Or, it might be that you have a faulty camera, but what you are describing doesn't happen with a non-broken R7, unless you had programmed the back button to use other settings. If that's the case, it doesn't matter that you turned off the other settings.

I can't find a way of covering something I want to shoot and it permanently staying there.

What I have done is program my AF-ON button to use the "register/recall" settings, and set it to single spot (small) with no eye AF and no subject tracking. That forces the camera to focus just on what's under that spot (I can use it with one-shot or servo). It stays there. It works perfectly. I don't use it often, because I find the subject and eye-detect and tracking of the R7 to be superb. But occasionally I need to force the camera to focus on a particular thing, and that's a quick and easy way to do it.

What is going on?

It really sounds like a problem with your settings. You might want to reset everything and start over.

Then back on site and with the preferred settings from "Ron's" Whistling Straits video tried to get an owl not too far away flying slowly, against the sky. Seemed to get red squares over owl but on viewing not in focus and no focus points showing at all . Then a few seconds later against a fairly distant grass background it managed to focus on about three out of five in the burst.

Probably need a new thread.

Thanks Alistair. I have a feeling you are right. Having tweaked many settings and customised buttons I may have something in there that I'm not fully aware of its function. Whilst I am an experienced photographer the nuances of mirrorless and the R7 still require some deeper study I feel

Alastair Norcross wrote:

That sounds like you had BBF set to engage other settings. If you are in one shot (not servo), no tracking and no eye detect, and using single spot (either small or big), the focus will stay inside that spot. I've just tried it with mine, and I can't induce it to focus on anything outside of the spot. If you're in one of the zone modes, you will see the multiple focus squares inside that zone (it has to pick something to focus on inside the zone), but nothing outside the zone. You should check your custom settings to see what you had the BBF button set to. This isn't a problem with the camera, but with your settings. Or, it might be that you have a faulty camera, but what you are describing doesn't happen with a non-broken R7, unless you had programmed the back button to use other settings. If that's the case, it doesn't matter that you turned off the other settings.

I can't find a way of covering something I want to shoot and it permanently staying there.

What I have done is program my AF-ON button to use the "register/recall" settings, and set it to single spot (small) with no eye AF and no subject tracking. That forces the camera to focus just on what's under that spot (I can use it with one-shot or servo). It stays there. It works perfectly. I don't use it often, because I find the subject and eye-detect and tracking of the R7 to be superb. But occasionally I need to force the camera to focus on a particular thing, and that's a quick and easy way to do it.

What is going on?

It really sounds like a problem with your settings. You might want to reset everything and start over.

Alistair - big thank you. I discovered I had somehow set bbf to eye detect which would presumably be responsible for almost all of the above problems and some others as well. It seems ok now with a quick test. I was toggling eye detect on and off with the M-fn button when tracking but would the bbf button always overrride this when I pressed it o focus when it was set as above. It appears so.
Thanks again, I will get there.

Dave C 150 wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

That sounds like you had BBF set to engage other settings. If you are in one shot (not servo), no tracking and no eye detect, and using single spot (either small or big), the focus will stay inside that spot. I've just tried it with mine, and I can't induce it to focus on anything outside of the spot. If you're in one of the zone modes, you will see the multiple focus squares inside that zone (it has to pick something to focus on inside the zone), but nothing outside the zone. You should check your custom settings to see what you had the BBF button set to. This isn't a problem with the camera, but with your settings. Or, it might be that you have a faulty camera, but what you are describing doesn't happen with a non-broken R7, unless you had programmed the back button to use other settings. If that's the case, it doesn't matter that you turned off the other settings.

I can't find a way of covering something I want to shoot and it permanently staying there.

What I have done is program my AF-ON button to use the "register/recall" settings, and set it to single spot (small) with no eye AF and no subject tracking. That forces the camera to focus just on what's under that spot (I can use it with one-shot or servo). It stays there. It works perfectly. I don't use it often, because I find the subject and eye-detect and tracking of the R7 to be superb. But occasionally I need to force the camera to focus on a particular thing, and that's a quick and easy way to do it.

What is going on?

It really sounds like a problem with your settings. You might want to reset everything and start over.

Alistair - big thank you. I discovered I had somehow set bbf to eye detect which would presumably be responsible for almost all of the above problems and some others as well. It seems ok now with a quick test. I was toggling eye detect on and off with the M-fn button when tracking but would the bbf button always overrride this when I pressed it o focus when it was set as above. It appears so.
Thanks again, I will get there.

Glad you figured it out. I think the learning curve for mirrorless, coming from a DSLR, is quite large, especially with a complicated AF system like the R7’s. I eased myself gradually into mirrorless, shooting several M cameras (M, M6, M6II) alongside my 7D and 7DII. And then my first R was the R, which has a less complex AF system than the R7. Even so, I’m still learning the R7 after six months of use. I’m pretty comfortable with it now, but still occasionally tweak my settings.

J.K.T. wrote:

I'm hearing this a bit too frequently. I have to wonder if Canon has made a bit of a design fib with the shutter stock and IBIS. They don't have that much experience with IBIS on cameras with fast rate and the smaller sensor is considerably lighter than FF...

Naturally just is just speculation with no hard facts behind it. It is just the kind of mistake that could be made and would explain these reports.

Sorry for the slow response, apparently I hadn't turned on notifications yet. Yes, I'm using full mechanical shutter to avoid any rolling shutter on higher shutter speed panning shots. This is the first I've heard of shutter shock, guess that's probably an IBIS thing as I never had an issue like this on my old 7D (where I'm coming from). I'll give electronic shutter a shot, hopefully that fixes it.

Thanks!

Circa1200AD wrote:

Hello all,

I'm new to the forum but have been shooting with Canon DSLRs for 15+ years. I just got an R7 a month or so ago and have noticed a strange thing with my images: there appears to be noticeable image shake even when the shutter speed should be high enough to avoid shake without IS. And the shake seen in the images isn't the smooth blur you often get with an unsteady hand but rather it's like a double image. Am I doing something wrong with the R7? Is there a setting I've missed or screwed up?

Below are 100% crops from the R7, all handheld at f/5.6 and 1/80th with focal lengths around 22-28mm (except the 100-500mm shots). I've used a variety of lenses (Canon EF-S 15-85mm, Canon EF-S 10-22mm, Canon EF 28mm f/1.8, and Canon RF 100-500mm) with the EF and EF-S lenses using a Canon EF-RF adapter.

F/5.6, 1/80th, ISO 800, 100% crop, 22mm

F/5.6, 1/80th, ISO 800, 100% crop, 22mm

F/5.6, 1/80th, ISO 800, 100% crop, 28mm

F/5.6, 1/80th, ISO 800, 100% crop, 22mm

F/5.6, 1/80th, ISO 800, 100% crop, 100mm

F/5.6, 1/80th, ISO 800, 100% crop, 100mm

Here's what I found in the R7 manual. As a safety precaution (even though this may not be applicable), I enabled the shutter release w/o lens to ensure IBIS works. Hope this helps. It's also telling you that there is an issue with comms. between lens and camera, if enabling resolves your problem.

Circa1200AD wrote:

J.K.T. wrote:

I'm hearing this a bit too frequently. I have to wonder if Canon has made a bit of a design fib with the shutter stock and IBIS. They don't have that much experience with IBIS on cameras with fast rate and the smaller sensor is considerably lighter than FF...

Naturally just is just speculation with no hard facts behind it. It is just the kind of mistake that could be made and would explain these reports.

Sorry for the slow response, apparently I hadn't turned on notifications yet. Yes, I'm using full mechanical shutter to avoid any rolling shutter on higher shutter speed panning shots.

EFCS has no rolling shutter either and has no shutter shock for the first picture in a burst and significantly less shock for subsequent pictures.

This is the first I've heard of shutter shock, guess that's probably an IBIS thing as I never had an issue like this on my old 7D (where I'm coming from). I'll give electronic shutter a shot, hopefully that fixes it.

On your 7D you could enable 'silent shooting' to get EFCS, it improved my macro shots a lot. When shooting through liveview on a 7D you get EFCS by default, and no mirror slap. Shutter shock was a thing, but mirror slap was an even bigger issue. The extra weight of the 7D compared to the R7 also helped with dampening the effects.

Anyway, it looks like every Canon IS system, be it in-lens or in-body, handles shutters speeds roughhly between 1/60s and 1/160s badly. You'll see sharpness increase with faster speeds (as you'd expect), but also at slightly lower speeds.

The EF600L III owners created enough noise for Canon to send out a lens firmware update to make it better, but that has been the only time Canon did anything to acknowledge or improve this behaviour.

capture a few pictures and see if the problem exists after the first picture

I feel like I was seeing this effect during burst with a full mechanical shutter, but I'll definitely be playing with the electronic shutter settings and testing it again.