Live view autofocus on Pentax cameras

The Pentax K-S2 (20mp), the Pentax K70 (24mp) and now the Pentax KF (24mp), are the only Pentax DSLR's that have the 'selfie' LCD. And I share your requirement for it.

petrock wrote:

The Pentax K-S2 (20mp), the Pentax K70 (24mp) and now the Pentax KF (24mp), are the only Pentax DSLR's that have the 'selfie' LCD. And I share your requirement for it.

Sorry, I mis-read your post, about the 'selfie', which you do not like !

You ask "which of the recent Pentax cameras offers the best AF via the LCD". I can't answer which one offers the best. I do use AF via the LCD when shooting landscapes on my KP, and it works perfectly well. The AF area is a square of fixed size that can be positioned almost anywhere in the frame, or locked to the centre. It is white, and turns green when achieving focus, or red if focus cannot be obtained.

Other AF Active Area options for Live View, which I do not use, are Face Detection, Tracking, and Multiple AF Points. For the latter, the sensor is divided into 35 areas (7 horizontal by 5 vertical), from which you can select and position a rectangular array of 1, 9, 15, 25, or 35 of those AF areas.

AF Active Area can be assigned to one of the customizable buttons on the camera, for quick and easy switching on the fly without entering the menu. Although it's available, I don't use it in LV, but I do sometimes use it for switching between Select and Spot in AF through the viewfinder. I don't even have to take my eye away from the viewfinder to do this.

In Live View, when AF Active Area is Select or Multiple AF Points, and you are positioning the AF area, pressing the Green button (a hard button next to the LCD) instantly returns the AF area to the centre of the frame.

Two types of focus peaking are available: Highlight Edge and Extract Edge. Both are a boon to manual focusing in Live View, especially when combined with magnification, which is available up to 16x. In magnified view, after you have panned around the image, the Green button returns the magnified area to the centre of the frame.

Histogram Display and Highlight Alert (the blinkies) are both available options for Live View.

The KP has a tilting screen, not a "selfie screen". I find tilting it very useful, and have never had a problem with it in nearly five years of use. An Arca-Swiss plate is permanently attached to my camera, without interfering with the screen.

One or more of the features mentioned above (besides the tilting screen) are not available on the K-3.

I use manual-focus Zeiss and Voigtländer lenses on my KP. Of course, they are a pleasure to focus using focus peaking in magnified Live View on a tilted screen. The ergonomics - and the results - are excellent.

The one drawback I would point out is poorer battery life when using Live View on the KP, compared to the K-5 and K-3 lines of cameras.

The KP is discontinued, unfortunately, but available on the used market.

Adam007 wrote:

Pentax LV is behind other cameras, but it works just fine. The K-1 display could be more detailed. I tend to use LV for still subjects. Never a problem.

If you were otherwise happy with your S1R, I'm not sure why you would add a K-1. As you observe, you can adapt Pentax glass, and it doesn't; sound like AF is a key concern for you. I had an S1R for a month, and I did end up sticking with my K-1. My reasons might not be your reasons:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4452904?fbclid=IwAR1_MbfHuucULUxxewR5vljG85OYSuRHlNNgk4tiR_lAdBn5qmnu0wuV-oM

Good luck!

Thanks very much for responding. I am very happy with my S1R and the K1 is, indeed, not my target pentax camera. The second camera will ideally  have

• great IQ
• better low light performance than the S1R (ie not a high MP sensor)
• a tilt LCD with MF aids and decent AF-S (able to accurately focus a moving target in AF-S mode)
• lens options that I like (FA 31 and a decent zoom)
• ideally APS-C (for longer reach with the zoom
• ideally touch screen (for easy placement of AF target)
• ability to adapt nikon, M42, sony A mount, etc lenses

The pentax KP is my current target (though I realise the LCD is not touch enabled).

Thanks again for responding.

Hello mainoo

You did asked for the LV AF, but for your lens you must make a decision, if you will use them on FF or with a 1,5x crop APS-C. For example your 31mm is nearly a normal 46,5mm lens on a APS-C.

Only the K1 and K1 II are FF cameras. Their LV use CDAF and it is not so fast as cameras with PDAF/CDAF for LV. The only PDAF/CDAF for LV camera is the K70 and the new KF, but that are APS-C cameras.

The DA 55-300mm PLM is not a FF lens. I use mine with my K1 in the crop mode of the camera, or when I use FF, I crop later in PP.

I never tried out to use with my K1 the LV for a picture of a bicycle driver...I use the OVF and it's faster PDAF for that. So, sorry, I can't say much about that if that would work. I only see, that when I move myself and move to an object my LV focus is 'watching'  the picture is not in focus. For stills, the LV is good.

best regards. KPM2

Thanks very much for your detailed and helpful response.

MaKeR wrote:

You ask "which of the recent Pentax cameras offers the best AF via the LCD". I can't answer which one offers the best. I do use AF via the LCD when shooting landscapes on my KP, and it works perfectly well. The AF area is a square of fixed size that can be positioned almost anywhere in the frame, or locked to the centre. It is white, and turns green when achieving focus, or red if focus cannot be obtained.

Other AF Active Area options for Live View, which I do not use, are Face Detection, Tracking, and Multiple AF Points. For the latter, the sensor is divided into 35 areas (7 horizontal by 5 vertical), from which you can select and position a rectangular array of 1, 9, 15, 25, or 35 of those AF areas.

I also do not use face detect and am more concerned with the ability of the AF system to acquire focus on the subject under the focus rectangle and take the photo quickly.

The one drawback I would point out is poorer battery life when using Live View on the KP, compared to the K-5 and K-3 lines of cameras.

The KP is discontinued, unfortunately, but available on the used market.

The KP is the camera I am targeting and I am aware of the limited battery life. The only reason I need a second camera is for events (such as horse festivals in Spain and the UK) where I would use the AF camera with a telephoto (eg 55-300)  and either a wide (FA 31) or portrait (zeiss 85mm) on the S1R. The fact that I would also be able to AF using the FA 31 is an added bonus.

Thanks again.

Hello JeremieB

JeremieB wrote:

My understanding is that the K3III would have the best LV AF. The K70/KF should normally be the best as it shares something with MILCs (phase detect AF points on the sensor supposed to help CDAF in LV), but in the end not really - I'd say K3III is better.

You don't get zebras but red highlight alerts. You can't change the color.

On K3III you have 2 focus peaking modes: one that emphasizes contours, the other shows only contours. Both can be useful.

Even with K3III, AF in LV is rather slow. With K3III you have less risk of having it focusing all the way from close to infinity and back (which can take ages on K70). So it's delicate, and AF C of joggers or other moving things can be frustrating honestly. With patience and precision it's usable not much more. On static subjects it's ok.

You get face detection and AF tracking, but not both at the same time: it detects the faces correctly but won't AF-C on detected face(s).

Personally 99% of the time when I use LV, I use it in manual focusing with focus peaking (landscape, macro). Whenever fast AF matters, I use OVF.

I did read that the Catch In focus works very fast with the K3 III. Maybe that would be a good solution for the OP, when he use his manual focus lens, to use the OVF and Catch In focus for moving subjects ?

Did you try out already the Catch In focus with your K3 III ? ... do it react really very fast ?

Best regards. KPM2

KPM2 wrote:

Hello mainoo

You did asked for the LV AF, but for your lens you must make a decision, if you will use them on FF or with a 1,5x crop APS-C. For example your 31mm is nearly a normal 46,5mm lens on a APS-C.

Only the K1 and K1 II are FF cameras. Their LV use CDAF and it is not so fast as cameras with PDAF/CDAF for LV. The only PDAF/CDAF for LV camera is the K70 and the new KF, but that are APS-C cameras.

The DA 55-300mm PLM is not a FF lens. I use mine with my K1 in the crop mode of the camera, or when I use FF, I crop later in PP.

I never tried out to use with my K1 the LV for a picture of a bicycle driver...I use the OVF and it's faster PDAF for that. So, sorry, I can't say much about that if that would work.

best regards. KPM2

Hello KPM2

Thanks for your helpful response. I am looking for an APS-C camera but hadn’t realised that the 55-300 PLM was an APS-C lens.

Given that the K70 has hybrid AF on the LCD, I imagine that would be much faster. If anyone has a view on how AF on the K70 LCD compares with the KP (for instance), I would be interested in hearing. One downside of the K70 is its selfie screen. As I would mainly be using the camera for AF at events, I may still consider it the AF implementation is surer.

Thanks again

mainoo

mainoo wrote:

• ability to adapt nikon, M42, sony A mount, etc lenses

That won't work. M42 yes, but Nikon F to PK adapters have to contain optics to be able to reach infinity focus. You don't want that. Same for Sony A, as it's flange distance is less than Pentax K.

- Chris

JeremieB wrote:

My understanding is that the K3III would have the best LV AF. The K70/KF should normally be the best as it shares something with MILCs (phase detect AF points on the sensor supposed to help CDAF in LV), but in the end not really - I'd say K3III is better.

You don't get zebras but red highlight alerts. You can't change the color.

On K3III you have 2 focus peaking modes: one that emphasizes contours, the other shows only contours. Both can be useful.

Even with K3III, AF in LV is rather slow. With K3III you have less risk of having it focusing all the way from close to infinity and back (which can take ages on K70). So it's delicate, and AF C of joggers or other moving things can be frustrating honestly. With patience and precision it's usable not much more. On static subjects it's ok.

You get face detection and AF tracking, but not both at the same time: it detects the faces correctly but won't AF-C on detected face(s).

Personally 99% of the time when I use LV, I use it in manual focusing with focus peaking (landscape, macro). Whenever fast AF matters, I use OVF.

Thanks for your very useful response.

To be clear I wouldn’t be relying on AF-C for joggers but on AF-S and mashing the shutter button (having already pre-focused in the area). Because all the cameras I like have rubbish AF-C (panasonic, Fuji and now, pentax), I have accepted that AF-C is a non-starter (as is tracking). On panasonic and Fuji, I get better results just relying on the speed of focus acquisition in AF-S and not leaving a lag before i take the photo. As long as the subject isn’t moving fast, I can get a good result. The question is how good is the LV AF-S on these cameras? Unfortunately, for many shots, I don’t like the angle I get standing upright with the camera to my eye so the viewfinder isn’t for me.

Thanks again for responding.

bokesan wrote:

mainoo wrote:

• ability to adapt nikon, M42, sony A mount, etc lenses

That won't work. M42 yes, but Nikon F to PK adapters have to contain optics to be able to reach infinity focus. You don't want that. Same for Sony A, as it's flange distance is less than Pentax K.

- Chris

Thanks for pointing that out. That’s only a nice to have - all my important lenses (zeiss primes) will be nikon mount zf.2s but I am mainly shooting them on my S1R. As my subjects are rarely more than 3 metres away, I wonder if i would get away with using a dumb adapter with the zeiss  primes.

Thanks again

mainoo

mainoo wrote:

bokesan wrote:

mainoo wrote:

• ability to adapt nikon, M42, sony A mount, etc lenses

That won't work. M42 yes, but Nikon F to PK adapters have to contain optics to be able to reach infinity focus. You don't want that. Same for Sony A, as it's flange distance is less than Pentax K.

- Chris

Thanks for pointing that out. That’s only a nice to have - all my important lenses (zeiss primes) will be nikon mount zf.2s but I am mainly shooting them on my S1R. As my subjects are rarely more than 3 metres away, I wonder if i would get away with using a dumb adapter with the zeiss primes.

I'm not aware of really thin dumb adapters, just a rather thick one sold as "Macro adapter" (truth in advertising, for once). If you can find a reasonably thin one, I think it should work at least for the 85.

On the subject of ZF.2, I do hope you get the 135. The 50 (assuming it's the 1.4 and not the Macro) and 85 you own were redesigned for the Milvus line, and with good reason. The 135 APO-Sonnar is in a different league.

- Chris

Hello bokesan and mainoo

bokesan wrote:

mainoo wrote:

bokesan wrote:

mainoo wrote:

• ability to adapt nikon, M42, sony A mount, etc lenses

That won't work. M42 yes, but Nikon F to PK adapters have to contain optics to be able to reach infinity focus. You don't want that. Same for Sony A, as it's flange distance is less than Pentax K.

- Chris

Thanks for pointing that out. That’s only a nice to have - all my important lenses (zeiss primes) will be nikon mount zf.2s but I am mainly shooting them on my S1R. As my subjects are rarely more than 3 metres away, I wonder if i would get away with using a dumb adapter with the zeiss primes.

I'm not aware of really thin dumb adapters, just a rather thick one sold as "Macro adapter" (truth in advertising, for once). If you can find a reasonably thin one, I think it should work at least for the 85.

On the subject of ZF.2, I do hope you get the 135. The 50 (assuming it's the 1.4 and not the Macro) and 85 you own were redesigned for the Milvus line, and with good reason. The 135 APO-Sonnar is in a different league.

- Chris

I don't know if you will do this, but LEITAX can change the mount :

http://leitax.com/Nikon-lens-for-Pentax-cameras.html

and also to other brands.

BTW: about the K70 and how the camera make a picture when it is in LV:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66612619

maybe you don't like it !

best regards. KPM2

Hello JeremieB

JeremieB wrote:

KPM2 wrote:

Hello JeremieB

JeremieB wrote:

My understanding is that the K3III would have the best LV AF. The K70/KF should normally be the best as it shares something with MILCs (phase detect AF points on the sensor supposed to help CDAF in LV), but in the end not really - I'd say K3III is better.

You don't get zebras but red highlight alerts. You can't change the color.

On K3III you have 2 focus peaking modes: one that emphasizes contours, the other shows only contours. Both can be useful.

Even with K3III, AF in LV is rather slow. With K3III you have less risk of having it focusing all the way from close to infinity and back (which can take ages on K70). So it's delicate, and AF C of joggers or other moving things can be frustrating honestly. With patience and precision it's usable not much more. On static subjects it's ok.

You get face detection and AF tracking, but not both at the same time: it detects the faces correctly but won't AF-C on detected face(s).

Personally 99% of the time when I use LV, I use it in manual focusing with focus peaking (landscape, macro). Whenever fast AF matters, I use OVF.

I did read that the Catch In focus works very fast with the K3 III. Maybe that would be a good solution for the OP, when he use his manual focus lens, to use the OVF and Catch In focus for moving subjects ?

Did you try out already the Catch In focus with your K3 III ? ... do it react really very fast ?

Best regards. KPM2

I tried catch in focus but only through OVF.

The catch In focus works only with the OVF.   Was it fast and accurate with your K3 III ?

best regards. KPM2

bokesan wrote:

mainoo wrote:

bokesan wrote:

mainoo wrote:

• ability to adapt nikon, M42, sony A mount, etc lenses

That won't work. M42 yes, but Nikon F to PK adapters have to contain optics to be able to reach infinity focus. You don't want that. Same for Sony A, as it's flange distance is less than Pentax K.

- Chris

Thanks for pointing that out. That’s only a nice to have - all my important lenses (zeiss primes) will be nikon mount zf.2s but I am mainly shooting them on my S1R. As my subjects are rarely more than 3 metres away, I wonder if i would get away with using a dumb adapter with the zeiss primes.

I'm not aware of really thin dumb adapters, just a rather thick one sold as "Macro adapter" (truth in advertising, for once). If you can find a reasonably thin one, I think it should work at least for the 85.

On the subject of ZF.2, I do hope you get the 135. The 50 (assuming it's the 1.4 and not the Macro) and 85 you own were redesigned for the Milvus line, and with good reason. The 135 APO-Sonnar is in a different league.

- Chris

Thanks for responding. Before i bought the 85, I did compare it to the milvus using my flickr wall of pictures test and I preferred the rendering of the classic notwithstanding the better sharpness, less aberrations and better cross frame performance (if i recall correctly from reading this comparison) of the milvus. Ditto for the 50.

Regarding the 135, I agree completely.