lockouts

times have changed

it used to be AF was the distinctive advantage and now it is not the distinguishing feature. We have R3 AF in an R10 and the advantages being pushed these days are e-shutter read times to avoid rolling shutter - eventually moving toward universal shutter - but where is the value proposition small form factor and glass?

and now we have hoarding of m6II's and great m glass because Canon wants to protect their FF RF cash cows by not giving us great RF-s glass like the 32 f1.4, the 11-22, 16 f1.4, 56 f1.4, 18-50 f2.8, etc

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

that was in a rapidly expanding market

it will be interesting to see in a compressing market because of the iphone if canon's lockout of 3rd party and the m system ends up like IBM

it also seems that Canon is on a more aggressive launch of bodies (eg, R6II and soon R5II) which was Sony's mode of operation - iteration after iteration

in my opinion, they need to bring back m and the 32.5 mpxl sensor and give it digic x because they ain't going to make great RF-s glass and the m system gives them the separate arms length orphan mount where they can focus on FF RF for R versus the crazy approach of holding back RF-s development

small and powerful and value proposition and advantages over iphone is where they should be designing - digic 10 in a 32.5 mpxl m -- and an updated m system would offer that

MAC wrote:

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

In 1986 our school bought new computers.

I helped unpack and set them up.

They were IBM stamped Made in China.

MAC wrote:

times have changed

it used to be AF was the distinctive advantage and now it is not the distinguishing feature. We have R3 AF in an R10 and the advantages being pushed these days are e-shutter read times to avoid rolling shutter - eventually moving toward universal shutter - but where is the value proposition small form factor and glass?

and now we have hoarding of m6II's and great m glass because Canon wants to protect their FF RF cash cows by not giving us great RF-s glass like the 32 f1.4, the 11-22, 16 f1.4, 56 f1.4, 18-50 f2.8, etc

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

that was in a rapidly expanding market

it will be interesting to see in a compressing market because of the iphone if canon's lockout of 3rd party and the m system ends up like IBM

it also seems that Canon is on a more aggressive launch of bodies (eg, R6II and soon R5II) which was Sony's mode of operation - iteration after iteration

in my opinion, they need to bring back m and the 32.5 mpxl sensor and give it digic x because they ain't going to make great RF-s glass and the m system gives them the separate arms length orphan mount where they can focus on FF RF for R versus the crazy approach of holding back RF-s development

small and powerful and value proposition and advantages over iphone is where they should be designing - digic 10 in a 32.5 mpxl m -- and an updated m system would offer that

I am thinking Canon has just sold a lot of M camera bodies and not to just hoarders.

Someone that has done some research could quickly click on the M6II for $549 deal ? 

And the M50II with a lens for $399 or a M200 with lens for $299 ? Wow !

A lot of M cameras are under the Christmas tree ? 

I just think Canon looked out across a photographic world in which there was this incredibly large buildup of EF and EF-S mount cameras and lenses, and shuddered. Really good cameras with plenty of life left in them. Terrific lenses in good to excellent shape. There was (is) this gargantuan inventory of great stuff, and it was (is) going at disturbingly modest prices. Cheap because there was a glut. Cheap because not everyone has to have the latest and greatest in pure unused form.

And, with any of its new stuff, Canon would have to compete with all that good, used stuff for a long time to come.

So, with semi-pro and nonpro enthusiasts who were not defecting to smartphone photography — a dwindling demographic — Canon had to compete with all that massive backlog of really good stuff at really low prices. How? With mind-blowing new features? Those mean higher prices. With new designs at lower prices? Unthinkable!

What was required from Canon's point of view was a managed march toward full frame, something dreamed of for some time. And all along that road, new mounts, new gla$$! Oh sure, mount adapters would have to be made available. The cool kids would soon tire of the added size, weight and clunkiness, leading the way toward the full new full-frame mount experience. An experience kicked up several notches pricewise to where four-figure sums are de rigeur.

As for the M's, the original M was an embarrassment that drew dismal reviews because of pokiness in shot-shot and focus time. Nice, small form factor, terrific Canon color, but for all of that a hopeless slug. Obviously, designed with great care to not risk the sale of even one Canon entry-level DSLR ever. What amazes me is that, maybe being stung by embarrassment, Canon, if only slowly, decided to develop the M line in to a great series for non-pro or semi-pro enthusiasts.

The decision to let go of its very long and illustrious run with SLRs/DSLRs had to be painful. But, if that had to be, the M series had to go, too. Toss the lesser players (er, payers) a slightly less pricey APSC bone or two, just so they start buying the new R-mount gla$$.

Just my observation, for better or worse. Food for thought, whether you agree or not.

m100 wrote:

MAC wrote:

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

In 1986 our school bought new computers.

I helped unpack and set them up.

They were IBM stamped Made in China.

8088's 

then $1000 clones took over

and IBM tried to lockout with a new II - didn't work

my Lenovo's come from China and are super powered at 1/2 cost of Apples

power, small size, value proposition rule

m100 wrote:

MAC wrote:

times have changed

it used to be AF was the distinctive advantage and now it is not the distinguishing feature. We have R3 AF in an R10 and the advantages being pushed these days are e-shutter read times to avoid rolling shutter - eventually moving toward universal shutter - but where is the value proposition small form factor and glass?

and now we have hoarding of m6II's and great m glass because Canon wants to protect their FF RF cash cows by not giving us great RF-s glass like the 32 f1.4, the 11-22, 16 f1.4, 56 f1.4, 18-50 f2.8, etc

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

that was in a rapidly expanding market

it will be interesting to see in a compressing market because of the iphone if canon's lockout of 3rd party and the m system ends up like IBM

it also seems that Canon is on a more aggressive launch of bodies (eg, R6II and soon R5II) which was Sony's mode of operation - iteration after iteration

in my opinion, they need to bring back m and the 32.5 mpxl sensor and give it digic x because they ain't going to make great RF-s glass and the m system gives them the separate arms length orphan mount where they can focus on FF RF for R versus the crazy approach of holding back RF-s development

small and powerful and value proposition and advantages over iphone is where they should be designing - digic 10 in a 32.5 mpxl m -- and an updated m system would offer that

I am thinking Canon has just sold a lot of M camera bodies and not to just hoarders.

Someone that has done some research could quickly click on the M6II for $549 deal ?

And the M50II with a lens for $399 or a M200 with lens for $299 ? Wow !

A lot of M cameras are under the Christmas tree ?

for sure, those deals are amazing!

MAC wrote:

m100 wrote:

MAC wrote:

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

In 1986 our school bought new computers.

I helped unpack and set them up.

They were IBM stamped Made in China.

8088's

then $1000 clones took over

and IBM tried to lockout with a new II - didn't work

my Lenovo's come from China and are super powered at 1/2 cost of Apples

power, small size, value proposition rule

My new computer says Made in Mexico.

My style of photography requires a tripod, exposure bracketing, focus bracketing, you know, all the stuff a smartphone will do ?

My new travel tripod that is not cheap is all set up to hold a smartphone.

So people can do photography tricks that require a tripod with their smartphone cameras too ?

Of course if I am going to carry that needed tripod around then I am not going to cheap out and use a smartphone ?

I have way too much time invested in learning how to do this stuff. Feel bad enough going all crop.

m100 wrote:

MAC wrote:

m100 wrote:

MAC wrote:

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

In 1986 our school bought new computers.

I helped unpack and set them up.

They were IBM stamped Made in China.

8088's

then $1000 clones took over

and IBM tried to lockout with a new II - didn't work

my Lenovo's come from China and are super powered at 1/2 cost of Apples

power, small size, value proposition rule

My new computer says Made in Mexico.

"Made" may mean "Assembled"

My style of photography requires a tripod, exposure bracketing, focus bracketing, you know, all the stuff a smartphone will do ?

My new travel tripod that is not cheap is all set up to hold a smartphone.

So people can do photography tricks that require a tripod with their smartphone cameras too ?

Of course if I am going to carry that needed tripod around then I am not going to cheap out and use a smartphone ?

I have way too much time invested in learning how to do this stuff.

Feel bad enough going all crop.

I use to also feel "bad" about the sharpness of crop  - my 60d was particularly soft with the sensor filter.

But then I felt "good" about high mpxl M6II crop with great blazing sharp lenses like the m32 f1.4 and 100L when combined with dxo PL -- these setups rival my FF low noise & sharpness

SW Anderson wrote:

I just think Canon looked out across a photographic world in which there was this incredibly large buildup of EF and EF-S mount cameras and lenses, and shuddered. Really good cameras with plenty of life left in them. Terrific lenses in good to excellent shape. There was (is) this gargantuan inventory of great stuff, and it was (is) going at disturbingly modest prices. Cheap because there was a glut. Cheap because not everyone has to have the latest and greatest in pure unused form.

And, with any of its new stuff, Canon would have to compete with all that good, used stuff for a long time to come.

So, with semi-pro and nonpro enthusiasts who were not defecting to smartphone photography — a dwindling demographic — Canon had to compete with all that massive backlog of really good stuff at really low prices. How? With mind-blowing new features? Those mean higher prices. With new designs at lower prices? Unthinkable!

What was required from Canon's point of view was a managed march toward full frame, something dreamed of for some time.

agree - RF was marching toward FF

And all along that road, new mounts, new gla$$! Oh sure, mount adapters would have to be made available. The cool kids would soon tire of the added size, weight and clunkiness, leading the way toward the full new full-frame mount experience. An experience kicked up several notches pricewise to where four-figure sums are de rigeur.

As for the M's, the original M was an embarrassment that drew dismal reviews because of pokiness in shot-shot and focus time. Nice, small form factor, terrific Canon color, but for all of that a hopeless slug. Obviously, designed with great care to not risk the sale of even one Canon entry-level DSLR ever. What amazes me is that,

maybe being stung by embarrassment,

agree - it took the m6II to get me interested

but I think they now rue the day that they went this far with it

Canon, if only slowly, decided to develop the M line in to a great series for non-pro or semi-pro enthusiasts.

The decision to let go of its very long and illustrious run with SLRs/DSLRs had to be painful. But, if that had to be, the M series had to go, too. Toss the lesser players (er, payers) a slightly less pricey APSC bone or two, just so they start buying the new R-mount gla$$.

sad - the RF-s glass will not be developed to capability

Just my observation, for better or worse. Food for thought, whether you agree or not.

you made fair points

MAC wrote:

But then I felt "good" about high mpxl M6II crop with great blazing sharp lenses like the m32 f1.4 and 100L when combined with dxo PL

That is what is really impressive to me about modern photography ?

Those small, fast, way sharp wide open primes like the 32mm.

And Photolab. 

m100 wrote:

MAC wrote:

But then I felt "good" about high mpxl M6II crop with great blazing sharp lenses like the m32 f1.4 and 100L when combined with dxo PL

That is what is really impressive to me about modern photography ?

Those small, fast, way sharp wide open primes like the 32mm.

And Photolab.

PL with deep prime is giving me useable iso 12,800 with the amazing 32.5 sensor and amazingly sharp 32 f1.4

Canon knows this and will phase this apsc setup out so as not to compete with their FF

MAC wrote:

their FF

The ones that kind of interest me cost so much I would have to take out insurance on them ?

And are way too heavy. Makes little sense on a small crop body ?

m100 wrote:

MAC wrote:

their FF

The ones that kind of interest me cost so much I would have to take out insurance on them ?

And are way too heavy. Makes little sense on a small crop body ?

if it were not for the RF24-105 F4 L with nano focus and control ring for EC that I got new for $899 three years ago and I love this L  -- I would have two M6II's like you

MAC wrote:

times have changed

it used to be AF was the distinctive advantage and now it is not the distinguishing feature. We have R3 AF in an R10 and the advantages being pushed these days are e-shutter read times to avoid rolling shutter - eventually moving toward universal shutter - but where is the value proposition small form factor and glass?

and now we have hoarding of m6II's and great m glass because Canon wants to protect their FF RF cash cows by not giving us great RF-s glass like the 32 f1.4, the 11-22, 16 f1.4, 56 f1.4, 18-50 f2.8, etc

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

that was in a rapidly expanding market

it will be interesting to see in a compressing market because of the iphone if canon's lockout of 3rd party and the m system ends up like IBM

it also seems that Canon is on a more aggressive launch of bodies (eg, R6II and soon R5II) which was Sony's mode of operation - iteration after iteration

in my opinion, they need to bring back m and the 32.5 mpxl sensor and give it digic x because they ain't going to make great RF-s glass and the m system gives them the separate arms length orphan mount where they can focus on FF RF for R versus the crazy approach of holding back RF-s development

small and powerful and value proposition and advantages over iphone is where they should be designing - digic 10 in a 32.5 mpxl m -- and an updated m system would offer that

An updated M System would indeed be a dream come true.

What I think is truly ironic though is the "role" of the iPhone as described here, as Apple is perhaps THE MOST exclusive product line in existence!  Talk about a Lockout!! 

R2

R2D2 wrote:

MAC wrote:

times have changed

it used to be AF was the distinctive advantage and now it is not the distinguishing feature. We have R3 AF in an R10 and the advantages being pushed these days are e-shutter read times to avoid rolling shutter - eventually moving toward universal shutter - but where is the value proposition small form factor and glass?

and now we have hoarding of m6II's and great m glass because Canon wants to protect their FF RF cash cows by not giving us great RF-s glass like the 32 f1.4, the 11-22, 16 f1.4, 56 f1.4, 18-50 f2.8, etc

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

that was in a rapidly expanding market

it will be interesting to see in a compressing market because of the iphone if canon's lockout of 3rd party and the m system ends up like IBM

it also seems that Canon is on a more aggressive launch of bodies (eg, R6II and soon R5II) which was Sony's mode of operation - iteration after iteration

in my opinion, they need to bring back m and the 32.5 mpxl sensor and give it digic x because they ain't going to make great RF-s glass and the m system gives them the separate arms length orphan mount where they can focus on FF RF for R versus the crazy approach of holding back RF-s development

small and powerful and value proposition and advantages over iphone is where they should be designing - digic 10 in a 32.5 mpxl m -- and an updated m system would offer that

An updated M System would indeed be a dream come true.

What I think is truly ironic though is the "role" of the iPhone as described here, as

Apple is perhaps THE MOST exclusive product line in existence! Talk about a Lockout!!

Wide Moat - I own stock in 2.2 Tril

R2

MAC wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

MAC wrote:

times have changed

it used to be AF was the distinctive advantage and now it is not the distinguishing feature. We have R3 AF in an R10 and the advantages being pushed these days are e-shutter read times to avoid rolling shutter - eventually moving toward universal shutter - but where is the value proposition small form factor and glass?

and now we have hoarding of m6II's and great m glass because Canon wants to protect their FF RF cash cows by not giving us great RF-s glass like the 32 f1.4, the 11-22, 16 f1.4, 56 f1.4, 18-50 f2.8, etc

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

that was in a rapidly expanding market

it will be interesting to see in a compressing market because of the iphone if canon's lockout of 3rd party and the m system ends up like IBM

it also seems that Canon is on a more aggressive launch of bodies (eg, R6II and soon R5II) which was Sony's mode of operation - iteration after iteration

in my opinion, they need to bring back m and the 32.5 mpxl sensor and give it digic x because they ain't going to make great RF-s glass and the m system gives them the separate arms length orphan mount where they can focus on FF RF for R versus the crazy approach of holding back RF-s development

small and powerful and value proposition and advantages over iphone is where they should be designing - digic 10 in a 32.5 mpxl m -- and an updated m system would offer that

An updated M System would indeed be a dream come true.

What I think is truly ironic though is the "role" of the iPhone as described here, as

Apple is perhaps THE MOST exclusive product line in existence! Talk about a Lockout!!

Wide Moat - I own stock in 2.2 Tril

R2

Apple will give you a service manual and sell parts ?

You need a special tool to unlock it though ?

https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/2000/MA2075/en_US/iphone-13-pro-max-07300325A-repair.pdf

m100 wrote:

MAC wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

MAC wrote:

times have changed

it used to be AF was the distinctive advantage and now it is not the distinguishing feature. We have R3 AF in an R10 and the advantages being pushed these days are e-shutter read times to avoid rolling shutter - eventually moving toward universal shutter - but where is the value proposition small form factor and glass?

and now we have hoarding of m6II's and great m glass because Canon wants to protect their FF RF cash cows by not giving us great RF-s glass like the 32 f1.4, the 11-22, 16 f1.4, 56 f1.4, 18-50 f2.8, etc

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

that was in a rapidly expanding market

it will be interesting to see in a compressing market because of the iphone if canon's lockout of 3rd party and the m system ends up like IBM

it also seems that Canon is on a more aggressive launch of bodies (eg, R6II and soon R5II) which was Sony's mode of operation - iteration after iteration

in my opinion, they need to bring back m and the 32.5 mpxl sensor and give it digic x because they ain't going to make great RF-s glass and the m system gives them the separate arms length orphan mount where they can focus on FF RF for R versus the crazy approach of holding back RF-s development

small and powerful and value proposition and advantages over iphone is where they should be designing - digic 10 in a 32.5 mpxl m -- and an updated m system would offer that

An updated M System would indeed be a dream come true.

What I think is truly ironic though is the "role" of the iPhone as described here, as

Apple is perhaps THE MOST exclusive product line in existence! Talk about a Lockout!!

Wide Moat - I own stock in 2.2 Tril

R2

Apple will give you a service manual and sell parts ?

You need a special tool to unlock it though ?

https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/2000/MA2075/en_US/iphone-13-pro-max-07300325A-repair.pdf

I see you have a repair background.

in this day and age though, we live in a throwaway society for goods like the iphone and m cameras when they break and lower dollars are at stake for the items vs getting them repaired

as you, I'd feel like I needed insurance on more expensive $2000+ FF bodies

Canon will not give us new powerful m -- what we want -  because for now they are raking it in on RF - until someone releases what we want and we migrate - which will not be good for Canon - unless they give us what we want

MAC wrote:

m100 wrote:

MAC wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

MAC wrote:

times have changed

it used to be AF was the distinctive advantage and now it is not the distinguishing feature. We have R3 AF in an R10 and the advantages being pushed these days are e-shutter read times to avoid rolling shutter - eventually moving toward universal shutter - but where is the value proposition small form factor and glass?

and now we have hoarding of m6II's and great m glass because Canon wants to protect their FF RF cash cows by not giving us great RF-s glass like the 32 f1.4, the 11-22, 16 f1.4, 56 f1.4, 18-50 f2.8, etc

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

that was in a rapidly expanding market

it will be interesting to see in a compressing market because of the iphone if canon's lockout of 3rd party and the m system ends up like IBM

it also seems that Canon is on a more aggressive launch of bodies (eg, R6II and soon R5II) which was Sony's mode of operation - iteration after iteration

in my opinion, they need to bring back m and the 32.5 mpxl sensor and give it digic x because they ain't going to make great RF-s glass and the m system gives them the separate arms length orphan mount where they can focus on FF RF for R versus the crazy approach of holding back RF-s development

small and powerful and value proposition and advantages over iphone is where they should be designing - digic 10 in a 32.5 mpxl m -- and an updated m system would offer that

An updated M System would indeed be a dream come true.

What I think is truly ironic though is the "role" of the iPhone as described here, as

Apple is perhaps THE MOST exclusive product line in existence! Talk about a Lockout!!

Wide Moat - I own stock in 2.2 Tril

R2

Apple will give you a service manual and sell parts ?

You need a special tool to unlock it though ?

https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/2000/MA2075/en_US/iphone-13-pro-max-07300325A-repair.pdf

I see you have a repair background.

in this day and age though, we live in a throwaway society for goods like the iphone and m cameras when they break and lower dollars are at stake for the items vs getting them repaired

as you, I'd feel like I needed insurance on more expensive $2000+ FF bodies

Canon will not give us new powerful m -- what we want - because for now they are raking it in on RF - until someone releases what we want and we migrate - which will not be good for Canon - unless they give us what we want

The last camera I repaired was a M6II with a way out of control dial around the shutter button.

Did not even need to take it apart. Wanted to but did not need to.

It is still working ok.

Did this.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66479234

MAC wrote:

m100 wrote:

MAC wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

MAC wrote:

times have changed

it used to be AF was the distinctive advantage and now it is not the distinguishing feature. We have R3 AF in an R10 and the advantages being pushed these days are e-shutter read times to avoid rolling shutter - eventually moving toward universal shutter - but where is the value proposition small form factor and glass?

and now we have hoarding of m6II's and great m glass because Canon wants to protect their FF RF cash cows by not giving us great RF-s glass like the 32 f1.4, the 11-22, 16 f1.4, 56 f1.4, 18-50 f2.8, etc

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

that was in a rapidly expanding market

it will be interesting to see in a compressing market because of the iphone if canon's lockout of 3rd party and the m system ends up like IBM

it also seems that Canon is on a more aggressive launch of bodies (eg, R6II and soon R5II) which was Sony's mode of operation - iteration after iteration

in my opinion, they need to bring back m and the 32.5 mpxl sensor and give it digic x because they ain't going to make great RF-s glass and the m system gives them the separate arms length orphan mount where they can focus on FF RF for R versus the crazy approach of holding back RF-s development

small and powerful and value proposition and advantages over iphone is where they should be designing - digic 10 in a 32.5 mpxl m -- and an updated m system would offer that

An updated M System would indeed be a dream come true.

What I think is truly ironic though is the "role" of the iPhone as described here, as

Apple is perhaps THE MOST exclusive product line in existence! Talk about a Lockout!!

Wide Moat - I own stock in 2.2 Tril

R2

Apple will give you a service manual and sell parts ?

You need a special tool to unlock it though ?

https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/2000/MA2075/en_US/iphone-13-pro-max-07300325A-repair.pdf

I see you have a repair background.

in this day and age though, we live in a throwaway society for goods like the iphone and m cameras when they break and lower dollars are at stake for the items vs getting them repaired

as you, I'd feel like I needed insurance on more expensive $2000+ FF bodies

Canon will not give us new powerful m -- what we want - because for now they are raking it in on RF - until someone releases what we want and we migrate - which will not be good for Canon - unless they give us what we want

This is what I would do with M stuff if it broke and I did not want to fix it. For sure not throw it away.

People do fix this stuff and this is how they get parts.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=canon+eos+m&_sacat=0&LH_ItemCondition=7000&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1

There is a service manual and training manual for the M6II ?

Now that Canon has killed it they should let us have the service manual so people could replace the internal battery, screen,  buttons and such. Simple repairs that could keep a lot of M6IIs out of the trash ?

m100 wrote:

MAC wrote:

m100 wrote:

MAC wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

MAC wrote:

times have changed

it used to be AF was the distinctive advantage and now it is not the distinguishing feature. We have R3 AF in an R10 and the advantages being pushed these days are e-shutter read times to avoid rolling shutter - eventually moving toward universal shutter - but where is the value proposition small form factor and glass?

and now we have hoarding of m6II's and great m glass because Canon wants to protect their FF RF cash cows by not giving us great RF-s glass like the 32 f1.4, the 11-22, 16 f1.4, 56 f1.4, 18-50 f2.8, etc

IBM paid the price in the old days by locking out 3rd party with proprietary designs

that was in a rapidly expanding market

it will be interesting to see in a compressing market because of the iphone if canon's lockout of 3rd party and the m system ends up like IBM

it also seems that Canon is on a more aggressive launch of bodies (eg, R6II and soon R5II) which was Sony's mode of operation - iteration after iteration

in my opinion, they need to bring back m and the 32.5 mpxl sensor and give it digic x because they ain't going to make great RF-s glass and the m system gives them the separate arms length orphan mount where they can focus on FF RF for R versus the crazy approach of holding back RF-s development

small and powerful and value proposition and advantages over iphone is where they should be designing - digic 10 in a 32.5 mpxl m -- and an updated m system would offer that

An updated M System would indeed be a dream come true.

What I think is truly ironic though is the "role" of the iPhone as described here, as

Apple is perhaps THE MOST exclusive product line in existence! Talk about a Lockout!!

Wide Moat - I own stock in 2.2 Tril

R2

Apple will give you a service manual and sell parts ?

You need a special tool to unlock it though ?

https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/2000/MA2075/en_US/iphone-13-pro-max-07300325A-repair.pdf

I see you have a repair background.

in this day and age though, we live in a throwaway society for goods like the iphone and m cameras when they break and lower dollars are at stake for the items vs getting them repaired

as you, I'd feel like I needed insurance on more expensive $2000+ FF bodies

Canon will not give us new powerful m -- what we want - because for now they are raking it in on RF - until someone releases what we want and we migrate - which will not be good for Canon - unless they give us what we want

This is what I would do with M stuff if it broke and I did not want to fix it. For sure not throw it away.

People do fix this stuff and this is how they get parts.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=canon+eos+m&_sacat=0&LH_ItemCondition=7000&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1

There is a service manual and training manual for the M6II ?

Now that Canon has killed it they should let us have the service manual so people could replace the internal battery, screen, buttons and such. Simple repairs that could keep a lot of M6IIs out of the trash ?

if they do discontinue down the road, let's say 2 years from now, then they practice a 5 year service history.

that is 7 years away

in 7 years we'll be using universal shutters by then that never wear out