Disheartening Very Disheartening

Well Sigma Fans what do you say, when you've been on two photo shoots with the Sigma rep and the rep is using a Sony camera? I asked where's your Sigma camera? Reply, "I think it's in the car or home, maybe." I took to college students with me who's major is Video Production, they weren't impressed. They went on a photo shoot with the Nikon Rep who was using a Z9 and they got to use the Z cameras and lenses. They were impressed.

Why do I want to buy a Sigma camera? Really?

So what did I do next? I got invited to a walk about with the Leica Rep who right off the get go gave me my choice of any Leica camera and lens or any two if I want to carry them. I chose the Q2 and SL2 with a 35 f2 and a 24-90 and off we went.

For 2 hours we walked, talked, and took photos, and you know what, he used a Leica camera and lens. At the end of the 2 hour walk about, and shoot we talked, he gave me his card, and 3 Leica key rings. It was good.

I love the FP and the IQ is excellent, but I'm looking into the Leica bodies with a Sigma lens maybe. I have a lot of Sigma gear, a lot. I'm a big Sigma fan and have been sense the 1970's.

It seems to me Sigma has also gotten rid of the User Photo Gallery on their web page.

Oh well

Roger J.

Agreed.

If Sigma came out with a fp version that had a built in EVF and/or range finder like OVF, it would be my one and only mirrorless camera.

For those with much deeper pockets, I think a Leica SL line would be the best transition for prior Sigma shooters. Simple and straight forward menu system and outstanding OOC colors.  I found Leica to have one of the most accurate exposure results (WYSIWYG).  However, you got like the brick like weight of them.

At least with the economical Sigma MC-21 SA-L adapter, you'll be able to use your SA lens. AFS works just fine, but AFC is broken.

I think I'm going to ditch my Sony.  Body is too small with way too many unnecessary options for my workflow.

alphaphoenix wrote:

Agreed.

If Sigma came out with a fp version that had a built in EVF and/or range finder like OVF, it would be my one and only mirrorless camera.

I think the loupe gives the best viewfinder I've seen on any camera. It's only limitation is that it doesn't tilt, but I can see the advantage of having a fixed LCD for reliability.

The only problem of the EVF is its high price. Being optional and detachable seems like a good feature to me.

For those with much deeper pockets, I think a Leica SL line would be the best transition for prior Sigma shooters. Simple and straight forward menu system and outstanding OOC colors. I found Leica to have one of the most accurate exposure results (WYSIWYG). However, you got like the brick like weight of them.

At least with the economical Sigma MC-21 SA-L adapter, you'll be able to use your SA lens. AFS works just fine, but AFC is broken.

I think I'm going to ditch my Sony. Body is too small with way too many unnecessary options for my workflow.

If I wanted a traditional camera with everything permanently attached, I would go for a Panasonic S5.

Don

Roger wrote:

Well Sigma Fans what do you say, when you've been on two photo shoots with the Sigma rep and the rep is using a Sony camera? I asked where's your Sigma camera? Reply, "I think it's in the car or home, maybe." I took to college students with me who's major is Video Production, they weren't impressed. They went on a photo shoot with the Nikon Rep who was using a Z9 and they got to use the Z cameras and lenses. They were impressed.

Why do I want to buy a Sigma camera? Really?

So what did I do next? I got invited to a walk about with the Leica Rep who right off the get go gave me my choice of any Leica camera and lens or any two if I want to carry them. I chose the Q2 and SL2 with a 35 f2 and a 24-90 and off we went.

For 2 hours we walked, talked, and took photos, and you know what, he used a Leica camera and lens. At the end of the 2 hour walk about, and shoot we talked, he gave me his card, and 3 Leica key rings. It was good.

I love the FP and the IQ is excellent, but I'm looking into the Leica bodies with a Sigma lens maybe. I have a lot of Sigma gear, a lot. I'm a big Sigma fan and have been sense the 1970's.

It seems to me Sigma has also gotten rid of the User Photo Gallery on their web page.

Oh well

Roger J.

Roger J,

It certainly does not look good when on a shoot with a Sigma rep and the rep is using a Sony camera.. I presume the rep was using Sigma lenses at least.

S

… The Sigma camera company is essentially a failure. It had a brilliant and unique sensor in the original vintage Foveon, lost much of that quality in the Merrill by sacrificing colour in pushing resolution. Realized that the colour was wretched in the Merrills, so pushed colour in the Quattro- causing over saturation and simplified colour. Then, abandoned their brilliant and unique sensor altogether, and followed the crowd- unsuccessfully.

Iain G Foulds wrote:

… The Sigma camera company is essentially a failure. It had a brilliant and unique sensor in the original vintage Foveon, lost much of that quality in the Merrill by sacrificing colour in pushing resolution. Realized that the colour was wretched in the Merrills, so pushed colour in the Quattro- causing over saturation and simplified colour. Then, abandoned their brilliant and unique sensor altogether, and followed the crowd- unsuccessfully.

Iain G Foulds wrote:

… The Sigma camera company is essentially a failure. It had a brilliant and unique sensor in the original vintage Foveon, lost much of that quality in the Merrill by sacrificing colour in pushing resolution. Realized that the colour was wretched in the Merrills, so pushed colour in the Quattro- causing over saturation and simplified colour. Then, abandoned their brilliant and unique sensor altogether, and followed the crowd- unsuccessfully.

We share the same sentiments.  My DP2S is the last and only Foveon despite the fact the lens retraction mechanism and ribbon will eventually fail.

I've jumped off the bandwagon of the FFF wait.  I don't mean to sound snarky, but I see no financial success with it going at it alone.  Sigma should see what Sony can do with the sensor as Sigma has already partnered with Sony with the fp cameras and its Sony sensor.

Iain G Foulds wrote:

… The Sigma camera company is essentially a failure. It had a brilliant and unique sensor in the original vintage Foveon, lost much of that quality in the Merrill by sacrificing colour in pushing resolution. Realized that the colour was wretched in the Merrills, so pushed colour in the Quattro- causing over saturation and simplified colour. Then, abandoned their brilliant and unique sensor altogether, and followed the crowd- unsuccessfully.

Perhaps you should try using a Merrill camera for a few months before writing them off.  I think what you are complaining about is entirely a matter of people's preferences when processing the raw files.  Bear in mind that eyesight and colour vision vary considerably from one person to another, and at different ages in the same person.

The saturation of an image from a Quattro sensor isn't inherently any different from that of any other Foveon. It just depends on your processing skills and intentions.

If you read the most recent interview with Mr Yamaki, you will see that his company is still working on a new three-layer sensor. It isn't easy under current conditions.

Don

I have a dp1 merrill on the way.  id even use a sigma camera though if it had a sony sensor in it. I absolutely loved my Sigma SD quattro body and ergonomics.

D Cox wrote:

If I wanted a traditional camera with everything permanently attached, I would go for a Panasonic S5.

Don

I'm thinking about a Sony. Lots of Sigma E-mount lenses, and 61 MP.

David

alphaphoenix wrote:

Iain G Foulds wrote:

… The Sigma camera company is essentially a failure. It had a brilliant and unique sensor in the original vintage Foveon, lost much of that quality in the Merrill by sacrificing colour in pushing resolution. Realized that the colour was wretched in the Merrills, so pushed colour in the Quattro- causing over saturation and simplified colour. Then, abandoned their brilliant and unique sensor altogether, and followed the crowd- unsuccessfully.

We share the same sentiments. My DP2S is the last and only Foveon despite the fact the lens retraction mechanism and ribbon will eventually fail.

I've jumped off the bandwagon of the FFF wait. I don't mean to sound snarky, but I see no financial success with it going at it alone. Sigma should see what Sony can do with the sensor as Sigma has already partnered with Sony with the fp cameras and its Sony sensor.

If Sony wanted to make a three-layer sensor like a Foveon, they would have done so long ago.

I think Sigma's financial success comes entirely from sales of lenses. The cameras are more comparable to some other company sponsoring a Formula 1 racing team.

The guys at Sigma do appreciate the art of photography, and they like to help people to make good photos. How good they are is up to the photographer.

Don

D Cox wrote:

Iain G Foulds wrote:

… The Sigma camera company is essentially a failure. It had a brilliant and unique sensor in the original vintage Foveon, lost much of that quality in the Merrill by sacrificing colour in pushing resolution. Realized that the colour was wretched in the Merrills, so pushed colour in the Quattro- causing over saturation and simplified colour. Then, abandoned their brilliant and unique sensor altogether, and followed the crowd- unsuccessfully.

Perhaps you should try using a Merrill camera for a few months before writing them off. I think what you are complaining about is entirely a matter of people's preferences when processing the raw files. Bear in mind that eyesight and colour vision vary considerably from one person to another, and at different ages in the same person.

The saturation of an image from a Quattro sensor isn't inherently any different from that of any other Foveon. It just depends on your processing skills and intentions.

If you read the most recent interview with Mr Yamaki, you will see that his company is still working on a new three-layer sensor. It isn't easy under current conditions.

Don

These are such  good comments and something I completely agree with. I know very well how one can mangle images in post and I’ve done it.   I have  a couple of dp Merrills and I think they produce exceptional images ( under the right conditions).  So, they shouldn’t be condemned. I wish they’d have a faster processor.  The dp and DP Vrange have great lenses and fit in my coat pocket, so, tick every box.

Sure, I’m interested in the FFF but a faster Merrill would be cool.   I don’t care about anything above ISO 100 or 200

Roger wrote:

DavidWright2010 wrote:

D Cox wrote:

If I wanted a traditional camera with everything permanently attached, I would go for a Panasonic S5.

Don

Hi Don

I have a S1 and I had a loaner S5. The S5 wasn't what I was hoping for and the S1 is excellent but doesn't have the FP's IQ and it's really heavy.

I'm thinking about a Sony. Lots of Sigma E-mount lenses, and 61 MP.

David

Hi David

The FP-L has the same sensor as the Sony at a lower price. The new Sony looks like and probably is a Sigma FP-L with a grip and a viewfinder. It just cost 4 times more.

Roger J.

Actually, I was thinking of the previous version (also with the 61 MP sensor)

David

furtle wrote:

D Cox wrote:

Iain G Foulds wrote:

… The Sigma camera company is essentially a failure. It had a brilliant and unique sensor in the original vintage Foveon, lost much of that quality in the Merrill by sacrificing colour in pushing resolution. Realized that the colour was wretched in the Merrills, so pushed colour in the Quattro- causing over saturation and simplified colour. Then, abandoned their brilliant and unique sensor altogether, and followed the crowd- unsuccessfully.

Perhaps you should try using a Merrill camera for a few months before writing them off. I think what you are complaining about is entirely a matter of people's preferences when processing the raw files. Bear in mind that eyesight and colour vision vary considerably from one person to another, and at different ages in the same person.

The saturation of an image from a Quattro sensor isn't inherently any different from that of any other Foveon. It just depends on your processing skills and intentions.

If you read the most recent interview with Mr Yamaki, you will see that his company is still working on a new three-layer sensor. It isn't easy under current conditions.

Don

These are such good comments and something I completely agree with. I know very well how one can mangle images in post and I’ve done it. I have a couple of dp Merrills and I think they produce exceptional images ( under the right conditions). So, they shouldn’t be condemned. I wish they’d have a faster processor. The dp and DP Vrange have great lenses and fit in my coat pocket, so, tick every box.

Sure, I’m interested in the FFF but a faster Merrill would be cool. I don’t care about anything above ISO 100 or 200

I don't even mind the current speed of operation. The DP3M is my most often used camera, and it'd be great to have a mark II version, with whatever improvements Sigma could manage.

David

Iain G Foulds wrote:

… The Sigma camera company is essentially a failure. It had a brilliant and unique sensor in the original vintage Foveon, lost much of that quality in the Merrill by sacrificing colour in pushing resolution. Realized that the colour was wretched in the Merrills, so pushed colour in the Quattro- causing over saturation and simplified colour. Then, abandoned their brilliant and unique sensor altogether, and followed the crowd- unsuccessfully.

Iain,

To describe Sigma as the Sigma camera company is essentially incorrect. I would say it is a company dedicated to photography, a company that makes equipment, mostly lenses, for photographers and videographers.

It also makes some cameras going back to the film days. I do not think they have been a failure in that regard.

Iain you seem to have convinced yourself that the only Sigma digital cameras with the very early sensors are unique and indeed they were and are but that is not to say that all the ones that followed them are not.  I believe that each range of cameras they produced are unique as they all have their own strengths & weaknesses, but they are all capable of outputting first class files and making first class images used to their strenghts & processing properly.

There is really no reason to say that the colour was / is wretched in the Merrills or to say that the Quattros colour is so pushed so as to cause over saturation. It just not the case in both instances.

Believe me you must use the Merrills and Quattros for some time and see for yourself just how good they are.

S

Roger wrote:

DavidWright2010 wrote:

Roger wrote:

DavidWright2010 wrote:

D Cox wrote:

If I wanted a traditional camera with everything permanently attached, I would go for a Panasonic S5.

Don

Hi Don

I have a S1 and I had a loaner S5. The S5 wasn't what I was hoping for and the S1 is excellent but doesn't have the FP's IQ and it's really heavy.

I'm thinking about a Sony. Lots of Sigma E-mount lenses, and 61 MP.

David

Hi David

The FP-L has the same sensor as the Sony at a lower price. The new Sony looks like and probably is a Sigma FP-L with a grip and a viewfinder. It just cost 4 times more.

Roger J.

Actually, I was thinking of the previous version (also with the 61 MP sensor)

David

Hi David

I believe the FP-L with the EVF-11 can be had for less if you shop around.

I do not like Sony. We had a run in back in 2004 when I worked for Minolta. They took credit for work I did. So I have zero use for a TV Beta Max company.

Sigma is a camera company. Sigma is the Japanese Leica.

Have fun

Roger J.

Hi Roger

I admit, to being tempted by the FPL, but it seems largely to be orientated towards video, and I have zero interest in video. If Sigma made a FPL with a mechanical cheddar, and no video I would jump on it.

David