It’s like they trying to wipe the M6ii off the earth Locked

Is there any precedent to something like that?

Making sure that before the new R50 announcement soon, to wipe off completely all M6ii bodies, lenses and parts, off not only Canon but also Amazon, B&H, Adorama, etc.?
new as well as refurbished?

Even by cutting prices aggressively, and dumping huge amount of new as refurbished? (My 2 newly bought refurbished M6ii are both looks new with only 300 shots)

Only explanation that I can think of that the new replacement might be inferior, or cost triple, or combination of both? Any other thoughts?

Was there anything like that before ANY previous announcement???

I don't know, wouldn't the R50 be the logical successor to the M50 rather than the M6ii? The R10 is more like the equivalent of the M6ii, and the latter already undercuts it on price by a great amount. I think they are just clearing out inventory as they would with any discontinued camera.

nnowak wrote:

ezriel wrote:

Is there any precedent to something like that?

Making sure that before the new R50 announcement soon, to wipe off completely all M6ii bodies, lenses and parts, off not only Canon but also Amazon, B&H, Adorama, etc.?
new as well as refurbished?

Even by cutting prices aggressively, and dumping huge amount of new as refurbished? (My 2 newly bought refurbished M6ii are both looks new with only 300 shots)

Only explanation that I can think of that the new replacement might be inferior, or cost triple, or combination of both? Any other thoughts?

Was there anything like that before ANY previous announcement???

It is not just M gear getting big discounts. The Canon refurb site also has some massive discounts running on R gear too. For example, the $599 RF 85mm f/2.0 is going for $299. The EOS RP that sells new for $999 is discounted to $599 as a refurb.

While the RP may be due for a replacement, the RF lenses certainly are not. Canon is clearly just trying to dump excess inventory. Secondarily, Canon may also be trying to prop up sales numbers as their fiscal year ends with the calendar year. Canon had fairly positive predictions in their previous financial statements this year and they may have needed some extra discounting to make those predictions a reality.

In normal retail channels such as B&H, i.e. not refurbished, M and R gear are not getting these massive discounts. This points to Canon USA just likely just having too much refurbished inventory sitting on the shelves.

I took your advice when the M6II first went down to $549 and got one.

The count was 0 so either someone reset it or it had not been used.

I have been clicking the heck out of it.

They are still in stock,  black ones too for $549.

RP for $599 ?   Happy days ! 

m100 wrote:

nnowak wrote:

ezriel wrote:

Is there any precedent to something like that?

Making sure that before the new R50 announcement soon, to wipe off completely all M6ii bodies, lenses and parts, off not only Canon but also Amazon, B&H, Adorama, etc.?
new as well as refurbished?

Even by cutting prices aggressively, and dumping huge amount of new as refurbished? (My 2 newly bought refurbished M6ii are both looks new with only 300 shots)

Only explanation that I can think of that the new replacement might be inferior, or cost triple, or combination of both? Any other thoughts?

Was there anything like that before ANY previous announcement???

It is not just M gear getting big discounts. The Canon refurb site also has some massive discounts running on R gear too. For example, the $599 RF 85mm f/2.0 is going for $299. The EOS RP that sells new for $999 is discounted to $599 as a refurb.

While the RP may be due for a replacement, the RF lenses certainly are not. Canon is clearly just trying to dump excess inventory. Secondarily, Canon may also be trying to prop up sales numbers as their fiscal year ends with the calendar year. Canon had fairly positive predictions in their previous financial statements this year and they may have needed some extra discounting to make those predictions a reality.

In normal retail channels such as B&H, i.e. not refurbished, M and R gear are not getting these massive discounts. This points to Canon USA just likely just having too much refurbished inventory sitting on the shelves.

I took your advice when the M6II first went down to $549 and got one.

The count was 0 so either someone reset it or it had not been used.

I have been clicking the heck out of it.

They are still in stock, black ones too for $549.

RP for $599 ? Happy days !

tempting - those are great deals!

MAC wrote:

m100 wrote:

nnowak wrote:

ezriel wrote:

Is there any precedent to something like that?

Making sure that before the new R50 announcement soon, to wipe off completely all M6ii bodies, lenses and parts, off not only Canon but also Amazon, B&H, Adorama, etc.?
new as well as refurbished?

Even by cutting prices aggressively, and dumping huge amount of new as refurbished? (My 2 newly bought refurbished M6ii are both looks new with only 300 shots)

Only explanation that I can think of that the new replacement might be inferior, or cost triple, or combination of both? Any other thoughts?

Was there anything like that before ANY previous announcement???

It is not just M gear getting big discounts. The Canon refurb site also has some massive discounts running on R gear too. For example, the $599 RF 85mm f/2.0 is going for $299. The EOS RP that sells new for $999 is discounted to $599 as a refurb.

While the RP may be due for a replacement, the RF lenses certainly are not. Canon is clearly just trying to dump excess inventory. Secondarily, Canon may also be trying to prop up sales numbers as their fiscal year ends with the calendar year. Canon had fairly positive predictions in their previous financial statements this year and they may have needed some extra discounting to make those predictions a reality.

In normal retail channels such as B&H, i.e. not refurbished, M and R gear are not getting these massive discounts. This points to Canon USA just likely just having too much refurbished inventory sitting on the shelves.

I took your advice when the M6II first went down to $549 and got one.

The count was 0 so either someone reset it or it had not been used.

I have been clicking the heck out of it.

They are still in stock, black ones too for $549.

RP for $599 ? Happy days !

tempting - those are great deals!

Right ?  Prices of about everything seems to be going up in this world.  Wow, is Canon turning us on or what ? 

I think the only reason they put a 32 MP sensor in an M body was they had made a bunch of sensors but were behind on developing the APS-C R bodies R7 and R10.

Canon did not bother to upgrade the processor to keep up with the extra data off the 32MP sensor so I always thought it was kind of clear Canon planned on it being a dead end.   But a dang good one so I bought an M6II and I am glad I did.

But I think the plan was always that as soon the R7 got released, it was going to be goodbye to the M6II.

OpticsEngineer wrote:

I think the only reason they put a 32 MP sensor in an M body was they had made a bunch of sensors but were behind on developing the APS-C R bodies R7 and R10.

Canon did not bother to upgrade the processor to keep up with the extra data off the 32MP sensor so I always thought it was kind of clear Canon planned on it being a dead end. But a dang good one so I bought an M6II and I am glad I did.

But I think the plan was always that as soon the R7 got released, it was going to be goodbye to the M6II.

Makes sense. Now I am extremely tempted to get a refurb one before they are gone for good. GAS says yes, sense makes no 😂

yes. fab time is very expensive. also scheduling fab time is expensive and money is already allocated. even though parts aren’t built yet. But from an internal company financial perspective it is the same as if parts already were made. i work for a monster big. corporation and how money is hsndled and allocated just does not sense from a simple engineers point of view. it is just from my experience seeing how money is handled i have this idea that at some point the marketing people in Canon had this awful realization that they were going to have a bunch of 32 MP chips depreciating in inventory and they were scrambling to find some product to use them in And a realization that DSLR sales were plummeting much faster than anyone expected so the 90D was not going to work out as a place to put all of them.

Just using my M6ii i just have the impression it does not have the refinement that my 90 D has. That probably is why I have the feeling the M6ii was planned as a dead end.

My experience in my company is we can spin the products we put chips into much faster than the chip production schedules can change in the fabs.

of course i could be wrong in all this. it is just my guessing what it looks liked happened

Foskito wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

I think the only reason they put a 32 MP sensor in an M body was they had made a bunch of sensors but were behind on developing the APS-C R bodies R7 and R10.

Canon did not bother to upgrade the processor to keep up with the extra data off the 32MP sensor so I always thought it was kind of clear Canon planned on it being a dead end. But a dang good one so I bought an M6II and I am glad I did.

But I think the plan was always that as soon the R7 got released, it was going to be goodbye to the M6II.

Makes sense. Now I am extremely tempted to get a refurb one before they are gone for good. GAS says yes, sense makes no 😂

Man, get that M6ii while you can.  It is an extremely capable camera.  I trust it to shoot anything on this planet (using Spot AF with Servo).  Here’s a good thread that highlights its capabilities (follow the provided links too)…

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64108171

R2

R2D2 wrote:

Foskito wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

I think the only reason they put a 32 MP sensor in an M body was they had made a bunch of sensors but were behind on developing the APS-C R bodies R7 and R10.

Canon did not bother to upgrade the processor to keep up with the extra data off the 32MP sensor so I always thought it was kind of clear Canon planned on it being a dead end. But a dang good one so I bought an M6II and I am glad I did.

But I think the plan was always that as soon the R7 got released, it was going to be goodbye to the M6II.

Makes sense. Now I am extremely tempted to get a refurb one before they are gone for good. GAS says yes, sense makes no 😂

Man, get that M6ii while you can. It is an extremely capable camera. I trust it to shoot anything on this planet (using Spot AF with Servo). Here’s a good thread that highlights its capabilities (follow the provided links too)…

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64108171

R2

Those dragonflyes shots look amazing!!

OpticsEngineer wrote:

yes. fab time is very expensive. also scheduling fab time is expensive and money is already allocated. even though parts aren’t built yet. But from an internal company financial perspective it is the same as if parts already were made. i work for a monster big. corporation and how money is hsndled and allocated just does not sense from a simple engineers point of view. it is just from my experience seeing how money is handled i have this idea that at some point the marketing people in Canon had this awful realization that they were going to have a bunch of 32 MP chips depreciating in inventory and they were scrambling to find some product to use them in And a realization that DSLR sales were plummeting much faster than anyone expected so the 90D was not going to work out as a place to put all of them.

Just using my M6ii i just have the impression it does not have the refinement that my 90 D has. That probably is why I have the feeling the M6ii was planned as a dead end.

My experience in my company is we can spin the products we put chips into much faster than the chip production schedules can change in the fabs.

of course i could be wrong in all this. it is just my guessing what it looks liked happened

when I first got the m6II I thought iso 6400 was noisy crap,

then I got dxo PL and boom - I started seeing IQ I liked better than any crop sensor I had ever had and with great glass such as the 32 f1.4, the IQ approached FF quality

Canon eventually realized they had the best APS-c sensor on the market and were not going to give it away for $849 in an m6II body - buyers would need to pay $1500 for it in an R7 body

the competition really hasn't answered 32.5 mpxl at the $1500 price point with all the R7 features

also the competition really hasn't answered the $2500 price point the R6II offers in features

Canon is leading both FF and Crop with these two offerings

the latest iphone has made stuff drop off

with these two Canon offerings there will be other inferior stuff that drop off

MAC wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

yes. fab time is very expensive. also scheduling fab time is expensive and money is already allocated. even though parts aren’t built yet. But from an internal company financial perspective it is the same as if parts already were made. i work for a monster big. corporation and how money is hsndled and allocated just does not sense from a simple engineers point of view. it is just from my experience seeing how money is handled i have this idea that at some point the marketing people in Canon had this awful realization that they were going to have a bunch of 32 MP chips depreciating in inventory and they were scrambling to find some product to use them in And a realization that DSLR sales were plummeting much faster than anyone expected so the 90D was not going to work out as a place to put all of them.

Just using my M6ii i just have the impression it does not have the refinement that my 90 D has. That probably is why I have the feeling the M6ii was planned as a dead end.

My experience in my company is we can spin the products we put chips into much faster than the chip production schedules can change in the fabs.

of course i could be wrong in all this. it is just my guessing what it looks liked happened

when I first got the m6II I thought iso 6400 was noisy crap,

then I got dxo PL and boom - I started seeing IQ I liked better than any crop sensor I had ever had and with great glass such as the 32 f1.4, the IQ approached FF quality

Canon eventually realized they had the best APS-c sensor on the market and were not going to give it away for $849 in an m6II body - buyers would need to pay $1500 for it in an R7 body

the competition really hasn't answered 32.5 mpxl at the $1500 price point with all the R7 features

also the competition really hasn't answered the $2500 price point the R6II offers in features

Canon is leading both FF and Crop with these two offerings

the latest iphone has made stuff drop off

with these two Canon offerings there will be other inferior stuff that drop off

I sold a Fuji XT3 and for the same money, I got my RP which I use extensively with the RF 35 IS to take jewelry product shots of my wife’s online store. Best decision ever, I love the simplicity of the RP and the colors straight OOC.

That is why I am considering pulling the trigger on one of those M6ii refurbs for $575, I think will be a great addition along with the M 28mm macro to my work! But I admit there is also a little bit of GAS too 🥹

Foskito wrote:

MAC wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

yes. fab time is very expensive. also scheduling fab time is expensive and money is already allocated. even though parts aren’t built yet. But from an internal company financial perspective it is the same as if parts already were made. i work for a monster big. corporation and how money is hsndled and allocated just does not sense from a simple engineers point of view. it is just from my experience seeing how money is handled i have this idea that at some point the marketing people in Canon had this awful realization that they were going to have a bunch of 32 MP chips depreciating in inventory and they were scrambling to find some product to use them in And a realization that DSLR sales were plummeting much faster than anyone expected so the 90D was not going to work out as a place to put all of them.

Just using my M6ii i just have the impression it does not have the refinement that my 90 D has. That probably is why I have the feeling the M6ii was planned as a dead end.

My experience in my company is we can spin the products we put chips into much faster than the chip production schedules can change in the fabs.

of course i could be wrong in all this. it is just my guessing what it looks liked happened

when I first got the m6II I thought iso 6400 was noisy crap,

then I got dxo PL and boom - I started seeing IQ I liked better than any crop sensor I had ever had and with great glass such as the 32 f1.4, the IQ approached FF quality

Canon eventually realized they had the best APS-c sensor on the market and were not going to give it away for $849 in an m6II body - buyers would need to pay $1500 for it in an R7 body

the competition really hasn't answered 32.5 mpxl at the $1500 price point with all the R7 features

also the competition really hasn't answered the $2500 price point the R6II offers in features

Canon is leading both FF and Crop with these two offerings

the latest iphone has made stuff drop off

with these two Canon offerings there will be other inferior stuff that drop off

I sold a Fuji XT3 and for the same money, I got my RP which I use extensively with the RF 35 IS to take jewelry product shots of my wife’s online store. Best decision ever, I love the simplicity of the RP and the colors straight OOC.

I love my RP with RF 24-105 F4L

That is why I am considering pulling the trigger on one of those M6ii refurbs for $575, I think will be a great addition along with the M 28mm macro to my work! But I admit there is also a little bit of GAS too 🥹

I also love my M6II with my 100L and m32 f.4

Nice  speculation.

nnowak wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

yes. fab time is very expensive. also scheduling fab time is expensive and money is already allocated. even though parts aren’t built yet. But from an internal company financial perspective it is the same as if parts already were made. i work for a monster big. corporation and how money is hsndled and allocated just does not sense from a simple engineers point of view. it is just from my experience seeing how money is handled i have this idea that at some point the marketing people in Canon had this awful realization that they were going to have a bunch of 32 MP chips depreciating in inventory and they were scrambling to find some product to use them in And a realization that DSLR sales were plummeting much faster than anyone expected so the 90D was not going to work out as a place to put all of them.

First off, image sensors are not light bulbs. You can't just unscrew one and upgrade it with a newer, better version. All of the hardware in a camera needs to be deliberately designed specifically for a given sensor. Conversely, an image sensor needs to be designed with a clear understanding of what hardware will be used in the target camera.

Second, the timing of camera launches is just too far off to support your theory. Canon would never have launched the crop RF cameras before the R5 and R6. Even if we accept your theory that the R10 and R7 were delayed, the earliest they would have launched would have been 2021. That is still two years after the M6 II and 90D and would have been long before any hardware or spec's would have been locked down for the R7.

Just using my M6ii i just have the impression it does not have the refinement that my 90 D has. That probably is why I have the feeling the M6ii was planned as a dead end.

The M6 II launched at $849 for the body. The 90D launched at $1199 for the body. It is not at all surprising that a body that costs almost 50% more would be a bit more refined. Just as the $599 M50 II body is not as refined as the nearly 50% more expensive M6 II.

Here is the reality of the 32MP sensor.

32.5 MPXL

Contrary to the conspiracy theories constantly posted here, Canon did not kill the M6 II because the sensor was "too good".

There is indisputable evidence they killed putting the 32.5 MPXL sensor into mirrorless cameras costing just $849.

Now, one has to pay $1499 for the 32.5 MPXL sensor in a mirrorless camera.

It is not a conspiracy theory that they chose the 32.5 MPXL sensor to be their top shelf APS-C sensor and that it was too good to keep putting it into a mirrorless camera costing 43% less

Canon is killing the entire M system,

and where has this been announced?

not just the M6 II, because it makes more financial sense for Canon to consolidate all cameras under the RF mount.

That doesn't match their official statement

The M6 II was likely just the first to go because it overlaps more with the R7 and that production capacity needed to be reallocated for R7 production. The 90D, which uses the same sensor, has not been discontinued and is still readily available.

the 90d is not a mirrorless camera

Then why launch a new sensor for a dead mount? First, the mount wasn't going to be phased out for a few more years. The timing of the phase out would not have had a hard date, predicted years in advance, as there are a lot of moving variables with existing stocks and lead times on new products. Second, Canon was falling years behind the competition without a single camera capable of decent 4k video. The old 24MP sensor is not at all up to the task and a new sensor was desperately needed. If you already need to completely design a new sensor to accommodate the requirements of 4k video, there is no reason not to tweak the pixel count at the same time.

WAG

Third, the 32MP sensor is coming off of a newer fab line than the old 24MP sensor. By launching the 32MP sensor in lower volume bodies like the 90D and M6 II, Canon was able to work out the kinks before before the line got stress tested with R5 and R6 sensor production.

seems odd, where did you get they all use the same line?