The K3 III in the comparison tool

I opened both dng files in Camera Raw.

The Pentax file defaults to Adobe Standard / 6850 WB (+12 tint)/exposure +0.53/sharpening 0.0

The Nikon file defaults to Adobe Color/6850WB (+14 tint)/ sharpening +40/ Color NR +25

Hello PeterPentax

PeterPentax wrote:

I opened both dng files in Camera Raw.

The Pentax file defaults to Adobe Standard / 6850 WB (+12 tint)/exposure +0.53/sharpening 0.0

The Nikon file defaults to Adobe Color/6850WB (+14 tint)/ sharpening +40/ Color NR +25

Thank you for to compare it with your Adobe Camera RAW tool.

So, I see in the DP comparison tool window a K3 III, K1 or K1 II RAW file with a unusual sharpness amount of 0, meanwhile the Nikon Z9 RAW file get displayed with a sharpness amount of 40 in this comparison tool window...that is not fair !!!!!

best regards  KPM2

Hello JeremieB

JeremieB wrote:

KPM2 wrote:

Hello PeterPentax

PeterPentax wrote:

I opened both dng files in Camera Raw.

The Pentax file defaults to Adobe Standard / 6850 WB (+12 tint)/exposure +0.53/sharpening 0.0

The Nikon file defaults to Adobe Color/6850WB (+14 tint)/ sharpening +40/ Color NR +25

Thank you for to compare it with your Adobe Camera RAW tool.

So, I see in the DP comparison tool window a K3 III, K1 or K1 II RAW file with a unusual sharpness amount of 0, meanwhile the Nikon Z9 RAW file get displayed with a sharpness amount of 40 in this comparison tool window...that is not fair !!!!!

best regards KPM2

Thanks for the finding.

So the images from K3III not only have severe shutter shock (not shot again with ES), but also have different sharpening applied ...

about this:

Makes that tool pretty much useless IMHO.

I use other words:  it take full effect, because the Z9 view looks  sharper as the K3, K1, K1 II view....but who know that this was made with the help of using different sharpness settings in the XMP-file...normally you see with a viewer only the EXIF, and here you see sharpness: Normal and you think the comparison view sharpness is for all  'Normal'

best regards  KPM2

Is the issue DPR, or is the issue ACR assignment of specific default adjustments on import? Whenever I import through LR or ACR I must assign an import profile as the starting point for what I see on the screen. I have neither of these cameras but always import raw. When importing images from any of my cameras the initial image viewed can appear dramatically different depending on my choice of import default, be it an Adobe default or an Adobe interpretation of a camera profile default. This tool strikes me to be of limited value for comparing cameras; much like a DXO score which is valuable to assess different lenses on a specific sensor at a specific aperture, and of no value in comparing with the same lens on different sensors much less platforms.

Hello

PeterPentax posted that the Nikon Z9 XPM setting for the ColorNoiseReduction is +25.

Now I downloaded ISO 6400 RAW files of the K1, K1 II and the Z9, where a ColorNoiseReduction do influence the look of a ISO 6400 RAW file.

The ColorNoiseReduction in the XMP file is for the K1 and K1 II = 0 ....and for the Z9 = +10.

Do you remember all the talk that the K1 II use NR in the RAW file....and now DP use per XMP (= via software) a ColorNoiseReduction view for the Z9 RAW file, but not for the K1, K1 II RAW files, because for them is's set to off (=> it's set to = 0)

BTW: my LR use presets for the sharpness and NR. For example, instead to remove the XPM file, I can also use the reset-button in LR....and than this RAW get viewed with LR's presets (default values) for sharpness and NR . Do ACR has also default values for this, like my LR ? Do use ACR for example a sharpness = 0 as a default value, or a amount of 25 like my LR ?

best regards KPM2

Hello James O'Nell

James O'Neill wrote:

hikerdoc wrote:

Is the issue DPR, or is the issue ACR assignment of specific default adjustments on import?

It's a little bit of both. DPR will say, if you reset the camera to its defaults, and take an out of camera JPEG, or a RAW and process it in the same program without changing any settings, then that gives a good indication of the what the camera's image is like. (With the kit lens, under artificial light, indoors, on a tripod, shooting a still life).

about this:

Anyone who has used a Pentax knows the cameras, by default, apply the least sharpening of any brand, and "defensively under-expose".

for it's JPG's

It appears the Nikon wants sharpening of +40 and ACR / Lightroom accepts that setting from the RAW file.

that is my point: my LR default settings for my Pentax RAW files get changed do to the XMP file, where the sharpness is set to OFF (=0). Don't think that this is done do to my Pentax RAW file, it is done via the XMP file, which is included in the RAW file, when you download the Pentax RAW file in this comparison tool. That's why I used my EXIF tool, where I can delete this embedded XMP files...for to see where my LR behaviour comes from. So without the XMP file my LG use for my Pentax RAW file it's normal default settings and for the sharpness amount it is 25 (and not Off (=0).

I have not this ACR, therefore I don't know if the sharpness of 40 is normal (the default value) for the Nikon, but I don't think so, because in the ISO 6400 RAW file of the Z 9 there is used a little different sharpness value than.

People can (and will) argue at length whether camera defaults are a true base line, or if different steps are needed in ACR / Lightroom for each camera to give comparable results. Those of us who go back a long way with DPR will remember the "Canon sharpen a lot, Nikon sharpen a bit, Pentax don't sharpen" arguments 15 years and more ago. If they change their methods it means you can't do a comparison with and old test (it might have been meaningless but changing the method means it is meaningless for sure).

best regards. KPM2

Hi KPM2,

Regarding the out-of-camera JPEG shooting, Pentax usually allows you to set:

- fine sharpenning

- extra sharpenning

The first one corresponds to the radius of 2 In the photo editors (at least in ACDSee, which I use), while the second setting is finer, it corresponds to the radius of 1.

The sharpening "strength" can be set (in the Pentax cameras) somewhere between -4 to + 4. The setting of 0 corresponds to the sharpening amount of 50%, the maximum negative setting actually disables sharpening completely.

Hello flektogon

Thank you for your reply about the JPG's. I only know that I can match the look of the JPG's via this settings, but I personally use only RAW files. But of cause, when you see the Pentax JPG's in this comparison tool, a user like you know that the look of the Pentax JPG's depend so much on this camera settings, like for all other brands too. I think DP use here for the comparison tool the standard (default camera) settings for the JPG's, but I am not sure about this.

flektogon wrote:

Hi KPM2,

Regarding the out-of-camera JPEG shooting, Pentax usually allows you to set:

- fine sharpenning

- extra sharpenning

The first one corresponds to the radius of 2 In the photo editors (at least in ACDSee, which I use), while the second setting is finer, it corresponds to the radius of 1.

The sharpening "strength" can be set (in the Pentax cameras) somewhere between -4 to + 4. The setting of 0 corresponds to the sharpening amount of 50%, the maximum negative setting actually disables sharpening completely.

best regards. KPM2

Forgive me if my naiveté is obvious, but if Adobe is trying to mimic the basic profile each manufacturer designates as default to render the image visible after import is it possible that the scale or zero point assigned by each manufacturer differs? That is, as ACR interprets what Pentax assigns as “0” in default rendering may be equivalent on the ACR scale to a Nikon “40” to achieve equivalent amounts of default profile sharpening. As it is raw data imported one can then add or subtract sharpening to form their own desired profiles or import settings.

Hello hikerdoc

hikerdoc wrote:

Forgive me if my naiveté is obvious, but if Adobe is trying to mimic the basic profile each manufacturer designates as default to render the image visible after import is it possible that the scale or zero point assigned by each manufacturer differs? That is, as ACR interprets what Pentax assigns as “0” in default rendering may be equivalent on the ACR scale to a Nikon “40” to achieve equivalent amounts of default profile sharpening. As it is raw data imported one can then add or subtract sharpening to form their own desired profiles or import settings.

I can not answer this, because I use not a ACR. This only can answer users, which have this ACR and than they can say....yes, for Nikon the ACR default for sharpness is 40 and for Pentax it is 0. I can only say that my LR use a sharpness amount of 25 as a default for my Pentax RAW files....but not a sharpness amount of 0 !

best regards. KPM2

KPM2 wrote:

Hello hikerdoc

hikerdoc wrote:

Forgive me if my naiveté is obvious, but if Adobe is trying to mimic the basic profile each manufacturer designates as default to render the image visible after import is it possible that the scale or zero point assigned by each manufacturer differs? That is, as ACR interprets what Pentax assigns as “0” in default rendering may be equivalent on the ACR scale to a Nikon “40” to achieve equivalent amounts of default profile sharpening. As it is raw data imported one can then add or subtract sharpening to form their own desired profiles or import settings.

I can not answer this, because I use not a ACR. This only can answer users, which have this ACR and than they can say....yes, for Nikon the ACR default for sharpness is 40 and for Pentax it is 0. I can only say that my LR use a sharpness amount of 25 as a default for my Pentax RAW files....but not a sharpness amount of 0 !

best regards. KPM2

I ask if this is Adobe ACR interpretation used in the studio comparison because I downloaded the images into ACR and get the basic sharpening setting of 0 for the Pentax .dng and 40 for the Nikon .nef. However, if I download the .nef directly into Nikon Studio NX convertor the default sharpening is listed as 0. I do not have a Pentax raw convertor to compare data there. Obviously the Nikon native convertor and the Adobe Standard profile in ACR assign different values for the default sharpening and a Nikon .nef 0 is a 40 as an Adobe .dng and a Pentax .dng 0 is a 0 as an Adobe .dng

Hello hikerdoc

hikerdoc wrote:

KPM2 wrote:

Hello hikerdoc

hikerdoc wrote:

Forgive me if my naiveté is obvious, but if Adobe is trying to mimic the basic profile each manufacturer designates as default to render the image visible after import is it possible that the scale or zero point assigned by each manufacturer differs? That is, as ACR interprets what Pentax assigns as “0” in default rendering may be equivalent on the ACR scale to a Nikon “40” to achieve equivalent amounts of default profile sharpening. As it is raw data imported one can then add or subtract sharpening to form their own desired profiles or import settings.

I can not answer this, because I use not a ACR. This only can answer users, which have this ACR and than they can say....yes, for Nikon the ACR default for sharpness is 40 and for Pentax it is 0. I can only say that my LR use a sharpness amount of 25 as a default for my Pentax RAW files....but not a sharpness amount of 0 !

best regards. KPM2

I ask if this is Adobe ACR interpretation used in the studio comparison because I downloaded the images into ACR and get the basic sharpening setting of 0 for the Pentax .dng and 40 for the Nikon .nef. However, if I download the .nef directly into Nikon Studio NX convertor the default sharpening is listed as 0. I do not have a Pentax raw convertor to compare data there. Obviously the Nikon native convertor and the Adobe Standard profile in ACR assign different values for the default sharpening and a Nikon .nef 0 is a 40 as an Adobe .dng and a Pentax .dng 0 is a 0 as an Adobe .dng

Thank you for your reply !

Now when you count in what you wrote and Lessiters post's I think now that my thread do have in that what I wrote a wrong conclusion ! On the other hand, I do now not understand what my LR did....using it's default sharpness amount of 25 for all my own K1,Kp DNG files out of the camera and for this downloaded K1 DNG RAW file of the comparison tool suddenly a sharpness amount of 0

best regards. KPM2

Hello Alex Sarbu

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Wait... did DPR reshot and update the K-3iii samples, with electronic shutter?

But I see they only did it for the low ISO shots; from ISO 1600 there's still the mechanical shutter penalty.

Alex

Thank you for this hint !

best regards. KPM2