Please help me think through a possible system change. (cross post) Thanks!

A hard decision....

I’ve been a Pentax fan and user for well over a decade. I love the ergonomics, ruggedness, and control scheme of Pentax cameras. They are a joy for me to shoot with. I am currently using an old Pentax K20D.

The K20D is a 14 Megapixel camera, and has served me well, but it’s terrible low light performance, terrible autofocus, and general out dated-ness has led me to decide it is time to upgrade, as I want to dip my toes into more professional work on the side.

My current kit is:

Pentax k20D

SMC Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 - Full Frame

Sigma 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DG Macro Telephoto – APS-C

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AL II – APS-C

Pentax DA 35mm f/2.4 AL – APS-C

Out of these lenses, I love the 50mm, and like the 35mm. The 18-55 is a pointless stinker, and I have little use for the 70-300 most of the time.

I am considering a few cameras. The Pentax K1-Mk ii, the Pentax K-3 iii, the Sony A7R III, the Sony A7 IV

Reasons I love Pentax:

Optical viewfinder: I PREFER this over EVF. I’m making no claims that it is better, just my preference. It makes me FEEL more connected to the process in a way I prefer and it brings me joy. I understand the EVF has advantages and I respect that. I am also a wood worker, so an apt comparison for me would be a power planar vs a hand planar. The power planar is faster, more consistent, and more precise. It’s great for cookie cutter results delivered in the same way every time for production line type work. The hand planar is less consistent, takes more skill and practice to use well, but creates a more intimate and connected experience making for work I find more joyful and fulfilling. Both are great tools, but if I had to choose one, I enjoy using the hand planar more. It just makes me happy, and that’s important to me.

Rugged weather proofing: The K1 is a tank. It’s a go anywhere in any sort of weather camera. I love this, as I enjoy landscape, travel, and nature photography, sometimes in very extreme conditions.

Ergonomics: I love the ergonomics and control placement of Pentax cameras. It feels natural to me and they fit my hands well. I am a large man in my early 40’s. I have large hands, I am strong. When I backpack I don’t mind slinging 80 pounds on my back if I need to. The size of the Pentax K1 and large DSLR’s is an ADVANTAGE to me. The weight of the camera and lenses means nothing to me. I often see size and weight touted as an advantage to mirrorless. This is great for smaller or older folks who have a hard time with large tools, but that is not me. I hate small tools because it’s very hard to use them comfortably with the size of my hands. Maybe this will change when I’m 70, but for now small, light weight cameras to me are a big disadvantage. If I need to go small, I can use my phone.

Lenses: Pentax makes some fantastic lenses. I’d like to get the 85mm 1.4, the 15-30mm, and the new 100mm macro.

I love the 36 MP sensor of the K1, I love it’s size, ergonomics, high iso performance, and super rugged build. I can get it with the battery grip for 1799 and I already have a nice 50mm to go on it. I find astrophotography as a new hobby to be very interesting.

Drawbacks:

Smaller used market. I’ve looked at used K1 MKII and the price difference of used vs new is so small I would never make that choice.

Poor autofocus.

Questionable future of the system.

I’m irritated as hell that the K1 MK III isn’t a thing yet. Pentax moves so slowly and I hate that about them.

Alternative choice:

Sony A7R III – on sale right now for 1999$

I like the look of this camera. 42MP, great autofocus, more varied lens choices, though that doesn’t always mean BETTER lens choices.

Downsides for me are EVF, battery life, overheating issues, less rugged, and small size which will be difficult with my large hands. I also don’t like the layout of buttons and dials. I don’t mind chimping a little as a consequence of keeping the OVF. I don’t like to shoot with live view, I’ll never use that on either camera most likely.

The biggest upside to me is the autofocus.

That said, I’m not a closed minded curmudgeon. I’m open to considering possibilities.

What will I be doing?

I’m going to be embarking on a second career in which I would like to shoot portraits (Family, headshots, engagement, seniors etc.) I may dabble in product and real estate photography. I will shoot landscapes to perchance sell at art shows. I will shoot candid's for my own pleasure. I have no interest in weddings or sports (other than my sons soccer games). I have absolutely no interest in video production of any kind. Only stills.

I do not need to pay bills with this endeavor. I’m fortunate enough that it’s simply going to be supplemental income chasing a dream. I could make 0$ and suffer no consequences. It’s a passion project.

I’m really looking to get feedback from other photographers on the fitness of these systems for my uses.

Will the K1 autofocus well enough for me to get some nice shots at my kids soccer game? Because if it will that’s great. Everything else I do will be slow paced. Is the autofocus on the K1 much better than the old k20D?

Does the Sony have more advantages that I’m not seeing? It has a slightly higher MP count, better autofocus and much better video. However, I have no interest in video.

Looking back at what I’ve written, it seems like the Pentax is still a good choice for me, but it’s a big investment and I’d just love some discussion.

Thanks!

The K1 really is great camera for you. Update to the lattest firmware and you are going to be very happy with results you will get.

I think k1ii is your way to go. Well built. Produce a great results when equipped with the right lens .I use it with the 3 amigos 31.43.77.

The Pentax body with the best autofocus performance is the K-3III hands down. Then the K-1II, K-1, K-3II/KP, & last the K-3. The K-3III's AF performance is still leaps & bounds better than the rest, though.

I'm gonna guess that the K-1III will have AF performance that matches or even beats the K-3III. When will it come out? Who knows.

Sony is the king of autofocus performance in mirrorless bodies. Their AF system is almost set & forget, unlike Canon & Nikon. People photos are easy with a newer Sony body like the a7IV. But yeah. It can get expensive very fast.

Have you considered the 47MP Panasonic S1R? It's at least the size of a K-1, and the UI is well-laid out. So you maybe some sort of middle ground between the 2 options you listed.

yoyoma007 wrote:

My current kit is:

Pentax k20D

Just an observation on that. The K20D came out in 2008--you keep your gear for a long time, but neither of the replacement options you're naming are actually the latest models. Given a 14 year amortization period, maybe you should consider the a7 iv or v, and Pentax K-3iii (the latter of which, if not both, are currently on sale).

Either Sony or Pentax are going to give you great pictures, so you might want to rent the Sony for a week and see whether you can adjust to its ergonomics. My wife carries a Sony and I don't see anything to criticize in her results, but I simply never pick up her camera because I don't enjoy how it feels in hand.

According to cameradecision, the K20D is 800 grams, the K-3iii is 820. So virtually no adjustment there (other than the performance blowing you away <g>).

I know the K-3iii is just an APS-C with a 26mp sensor, but my own experience was that at 16mp (K-30) I felt limited by the resolution, and at 24-26 I don't. Do you routinely crop so much that you need 36+mp?

Given that this isn't a livelihood question, don't carry a camera you can't love using.

SlamDesi wrote:

I think Henry has summarized your questions quite well. I love my K5-IIs but, when I got to the point of being able to afford a better camera, the molasses pace of Pentax production entered into my decision. I, too, went with a Sony A7R3. If you're wanting an optical viewfinder and ergonomics, this isn't the one for you. I sold it to my son for his real estate photography business and he likes it. I bought the A7R4a while it was on sale and, the ergonomics issue had been fixed as well as an enhanced LCD and viewfinder. I'll still add an L-Bracket to it at some point to fill in the vertical space and give my little finger a place to reside. As for the rest of the Sony camera.... it's quite amazing and I'm not sweating the EVF vs the OVF issue. Learn to trust it and enjoy the Live View on Steroids. My K5-IIs will be good enough for inclement weather hiking - at least until it gives up the ghost.

Just curious about your experience, since I'm in the same boat as a lot of people... I took an SD card to WorstBuy and played with an A7RIV (not the A model) and only managed to get off a few shots before the only battery they had died. I intentionally was shooting high iso in dimly lit corners of displays in the store just to see what the noise looked like.

When I got home, I couldn't believe the color noise even as low as ISO3200, it was like my K1 at 10,000... I had shot RAW, and ACR wasn't up to the task of making it worth a darn and I had to flip to my Topaz DeNoise. That worked a treat... thought it's not really ideal, as even as good as Topaz is, it still tends to smear things a bit in certain situations...(like the fine print on labels in the store ended up looking more like Klingon glyphs than English text)

BUT... I was also sorely disappointed because I was thinking a major advantage of 61MP would be more crop ability, but if I can't crop as much as I was hoping because of noise, then that kinda sucks. Maybe it's a lot better at base ISO?  I dunno, I can (and DO) crop my K1 shots down to 100% magnification pics and get very clean usable images when I have to, and I am thinking that wouldn't be the case with the higher MP Sony sensors. Any word on how the lower 45MP sensor handles this? If it weren't for Pentax infinitely slow release of new product (like the K1-MkIII), and the existence of the Sony G200-600mm and faster A/F over on the Sony side, I wouldn't even be considering any of this.

But, this is the world we live in and I'd be silly not to keep my options open. Part of me is considering a hybrid Pentax/Sony system in the future (Sony for long Tele daylight action, Pentax for everything else with my LTD primes etc), but the cost of keeping both, and the reality of probably favoring one system over another while one collects dust, makes me super hesitant. Another option is that LAKE Sony to PK adapter for my short primes on a Sony body, and just grabbing the G200-600mm for a Sony body like the A7IV or RV, keeping my existing Pentax glass... but that also seems like I'd just get sick of adapters knowing me, and I'd eventually end up fully Sony. Ugh... Sometimes reality sucks. Come'on Pentax, throw us a bone and leak some K1-III info before we do something stooopiiid! Heh heh.

Joking aside, I'll probably remain in paralysis by analysis mode for a while longer, but  ya never know, Black Fridays are always a dangerous time of year. 

Some great info and suggestions in this forum. I think I would summarize:

1. If you are ok with APS-C, then a K3iii with 1 or 2 new modern lenses is a logical choice. About the same size, it has the Pentax ergonomics, and is a fully capable camera that's available right now and has most of the "new release" minor bugs fixed via firmware updates.

2. If you are tending toward FF, then Pentax is a risk (in my opinion), because we don't know what Pentax is planning for a next release. The current K1 as compared to the mirrorless horde is a slower, more deliberate camera to use. But it is a camera that produces beautiful images. Or you can wait and see what Pentax does with their FF line.

3. So, if you choose FF and don't go Pentax, then you're mirrorless and that will come with a learning curve. You won't be alone though, every Pro photographer I know (in the photojournalist area) shoots mirrorless and/or Leica. May be a reason for that...

4. I think the major choice is FF or APS-C?

And if you choose FF, will you get along with the mostly smaller bodies and electronic viewfinders?  Can you borrow a friend's mirrorless for a day or two, or perhaps rent one?  That may help you make the right decision and be worth the effort or small cost.

RBIV wrote:

Some great info and suggestions in this forum. I think I would summarize:

1. If you are ok with APS-C, then a K3iii with 1 or 2 new modern lenses is a logical choice. About the same size, it has the Pentax ergonomics, and is a fully capable camera that's available right now and has most of the "new release" minor bugs fixed via firmware updates.

2. If you are tending toward FF, then Pentax is a risk (in my opinion), because we don't know what Pentax is planning for a next release. The current K1 as compared to the mirrorless horde is a slower, more deliberate camera to use. But it is a camera that produces beautiful images. Or you can wait and see what Pentax does with their FF line.

3. So, if you choose FF and don't go Pentax, then you're mirrorless and that will come with a learning curve. You won't be alone though, every Pro photographer I know (in the photojournalist area) shoots mirrorless and/or Leica. May be a reason for that...

4. I think the major choice is FF or APS-C?

And if you choose FF, will you get along with the mostly smaller bodies and electronic viewfinders? Can you borrow a friend's mirrorless for a day or two, or perhaps rent one? That may help you make the right decision and be worth the effort or small cost.

I can sorta agree with most of your summary. If I was into APSC, the choice for K3III would be a no brainer. It's better than the D500 in a lot of IQ respects, and with the DFA150-450mm you could have some real fun. I'm still just a little spoiled with FF personally.

I can tell you from my brief experience in Worst Buy I posted about above this post with the Sony A7RIV, the dark, crappie, make you seasick EVF's are a thing of the past. I hated the early ones, but the new one's seem fine, and if anything, have gone too far.

When I say too far, the one I played with had the viewfinder image brighter than realitoy with your naked eye. Maybe some previous customer cranked the demo unit up (is it adjustable?) but it was throwing me off on my mental exposure calculations. If had one, I'd tweak it to mimic reality because I like to mentally confirm that the exposure matches my guess when I'm shooting through the viewfinder. It helps my world make sense. LOL!

The new Sony menu system was vastly improved too... I found my way around easily enough this time compared to early Sony's I played with. So that is no longer a worry for me.

You are absolutely correct about needing to lay your hands one to play with before even remotely thinking about doing something as drastic as a system change. It's a big deal.

I was even looking at a weekend rental. It was going to be something like $375 for the A7RV plus the 200-600mm and a small prime 85mm 1.8 for a weekend rental. Plus you have to waive insurance and give a large security deposit, or take out their insurance, which is well over $100 more on top of the rental. That'll make you think twice! Makes you appreciate a local brick and mortar store where you can actually test stuff don't it? Heh.

Ha, I saw this post on Reddit and almost responded there. I think many of us have had a similar journey. But we all have different needs and preferences; for example, I have no interest in shooting sports or fast action. I *might* try my hand at shooting birds at some point, but have no current plans.

Like you, I became somewhat frustrated with the lack of direction from Pentax, and I started researching a move to a modern mirrorless system. I had no interest in Canon because I don't like their lens selection, so I tried Sony (A7III at the time) and a Nikon Z6. The Sony had amazing AF performance, but I just didn't bond with it, or the Nikon for that matter. Then I tried the Fuji X-T4 and that camera really connected with me, so I went in that direction. I currently own about a half dozen Fuji lenses, and the system performs great for my usage. I don't shoot action, but I found the AF excellent for shooting people and pets, and I even did a paid model shoot for a friend and the results were excellent. There are definite advantages to modern mirrorless systems.

After not using my K-1 for a while, I took it on a road trip with me, and shot it alongside my X-T4. When I reviewed the files in Lightroom, I was stunned at how much better the K-1 files looked, even as thumbnails. The files produced by the K-1 have an intangible quality, and stand up against anything else out there, IMO, even as a camera from 2016 with an "old" sensor.

So I started using my K-1 again and fell back in love with that camera. I completed my Limited prime lens lineup for it by getting the new D-FA 21, which is a truly spectacular lens. I recently took another road trip with just the K-1 and the 21, 31, 43 and 77 Limited primes, and I'm convinced there is no better system for me and the kind of work I like to do. I still use my Fuji when I want to travel light or be unobtrusive, but I love the purposeful feel of the K-1 when I use it, and the lenses I have are sublime.

It's highly unlikely that my experience will mirror yours. But I just thought I would give you my perspective on this. The grass does always seem greener on the other side, so just be careful about how you spend your money. Regardless, good luck with your decision.

I’m irritated as hell that the K1 MK III isn’t a thing yet. Pentax moves so slowly and I hate that about them.

Yet you still use the K20 (still a great cam)...

this point seems lost