Extreme low-light hand-held night video with f1.4 lenses and the M6ii

Since the time change, it gets dark early... I've been experimenting with very low-light night video, shooting trains in Tampa FL after nightfall.

I've gotten good results, without the excessive video 'noise' that super-high-ISO, low light video usually shows, by taking my 'heavy' large-aperture f1.4 lenses.

The native f1.4 lenses in EOS M mount like the Canon EF-M 32mm f1.4, and the Sigma 16/30/56 f1.4 'trio' work great for this.

I've found that the Rokinon EF-mount 135mm f2 lens paired with the Viltrox 0.71x speed booster makes a great, sharp (but heavy) 100mm f1.4 lens! It's the least expensive way to get to this focal length and aperture - dedicated 100mmm f1.4 lenses are rare, and start at many thousands of dollars.

I use a DSLRKit A001 tripod collar on the 135 Roki -- which when hand-holding really helps as the tripod foot rests in your palm, allowing you to precision-focus the lens with your thumb and fingers without jarring it. Needless to say the collar helps balance the heavy lens when used on a tripod, taking the pressure off the mount.

I was able to get stabilized, clear video with the 100mm Roki-Viltrox combo by shooting in 4k video mode with the Canon M6ii with digital (in-body) IS turned on, further stabilizing the video using the Warp Stabilizer in Adobe Premiere Pro, and downsampling the final result to 1080p to recover the apparent sharpness lost by the digital IS cropping. Downsampling also helps keep the noise and grain levels down.

Here's a link to a night train video with the Sigma 16mm f1.4 and the Rokinon-Viltrox 100mm f1.4 combo, shot at f1.4, all hand-held. It was a dark night with no Moon. The Rokinon at f1.4 has a shallow depth of field, so the telephoto shots are not sharp in all parts of the frame. It's also a manual focus lens, so focus adjustment might have lagged the train or not happened in some cases.

Shutter speeds were 1/80 second or faster so that the trains wouldn't be too blurred. I used Manual video mode, setting the shutter speed, with ISO set on Auto, but the ISO did not go higher than ISO 5000 I believe.

In post processing I also significantly boosted the brightness, contrast, saturation, and sharpness. In my experience, this normally makes even more of a mess of low-light video shot with extreme ISOs such as 12,800 you end up shooting at with slower lenses (even an f2 lens).

I've tried shooting with the Rokinon at night, at 135mm f2.0 --- it's more shaky so it needs more stabilization processing, and the f2.0 at that focal length results in videos that are too noisy ---- 100mm f1.4 seems to be the sweet spot!

https://youtu.be/KXZznLIMbmc

NormSchultze wrote:

Nicely done. Haave you tried to shoot the TECO trolleys after dark?

The following videos have a TECO trolley at night at some point, at the diamond:

https://youtu.be/JTN4DAQyT10 (at 1:34)

https://youtu.be/_sbS3zyvh7s (at 4:50)

https://youtu.be/vPniBCexgWc (at the very end, 23:15)

(All videos were taken with either M6ii or M200)

Interesting as a challenge exercise but under such difficult conditions and more so for videos, I'd use a gimbal.
You are reaching the limits on what in-camera or lenses stabilization can do.

Photato wrote:

Interesting as a challenge exercise but under such difficult conditions and more so for videos, I'd use a gimbal.
You are reaching the limits on what in-camera or lenses stabilization can do.

Very true, definitely the limits for the M series... the R7 would have some advantages here with its IBIS and higher quality video modes.

I do have a Zhiyun Crane M2 gimbal and thought it would solve all my stability problems ---- turns out for trains it really does not work, the tracking and framing needs to be far quicker and more precise than what I could get with any of the gimbal modes, even with sensitivity customizations. The camera EVF to the eye is far superior, I think. Also the gimbal was only useful for wide angle shots --- for telephoto images it was impossible to control and keep the train framed as it moved.

Good thought though..... I'll experiment with ithe gimbal more at some point. The gimbal does work amazingly well for the situations it's good at, and I'm sure I'll get some good use out of it.

Larry Rexley wrote:

Photato wrote:

Interesting as a challenge exercise but under such difficult conditions and more so for videos, I'd use a gimbal.
You are reaching the limits on what in-camera or lenses stabilization can do.

Very true, definitely the limits for the M series... the R7 would have some advantages here with its IBIS and higher quality video modes.

I do have a Zhiyun Crane M2 gimbal and thought it would solve all my stability problems ---- turns out for trains it really does not work, the tracking and framing needs to be far quicker and more precise than what I could get with any of the gimbal modes, even with sensitivity customizations. The camera EVF to the eye is far superior, I think. Also the gimbal was only useful for wide angle shots --- for telephoto images it was impossible to control and keep the train framed as it moved.

Good thought though..... I'll experiment with ithe gimbal more at some point. The gimbal does work amazingly well what the things it's good at, and I'm sure I'll get some good use out of it.

Interesting, I think ultimately, you could do it, but requires lots practice.
Probably would be easier with the gimbal set on a tripod.
I've been using the DJI Ronin SC with my M6ii and is a lot of fun, not just for videos.

Currently I'm putting together a PTZ setup (Pan, Tilt & Zoom)
With that I can get great pictures of all kinds of stuff with less effort.

When I have the time I'm planning to practice doing something similar, shooting planes at my local airport, here in Clearwater. Would post pictures if successful.

Photato wrote:

Larry Rexley wrote:

Photato wrote:

Interesting as a challenge exercise but under such difficult conditions and more so for videos, I'd use a gimbal.
You are reaching the limits on what in-camera or lenses stabilization can do.

Very true, definitely the limits for the M series... the R7 would have some advantages here with its IBIS and higher quality video modes.

I do have a Zhiyun Crane M2 gimbal and thought it would solve all my stability problems ---- turns out for trains it really does not work, the tracking and framing needs to be far quicker and more precise than what I could get with any of the gimbal modes, even with sensitivity customizations. The camera EVF to the eye is far superior, I think. Also the gimbal was only useful for wide angle shots --- for telephoto images it was impossible to control and keep the train framed as it moved.

Good thought though..... I'll experiment with ithe gimbal more at some point. The gimbal does work amazingly well what the things it's good at, and I'm sure I'll get some good use out of it.

Interesting, I think ultimately, you could do it, but requires lots practice.
Probably would be easier with the gimbal set on a tripod.
I've been using the DJI Ronin SC with my M6ii and is a lot of fun, not just for videos.

Possibly I could improve, but the bigger problem is that i really have a hard time composing on the rear screen and tracking the action.  My vision is such that only using the EVF allows me to concentrate on the subject and composition seamlessly without focusing on the camera controls.

If i used a tripod, like I do for dragon boat shooting, the gimbal is not needed.

As I chase the trains on bike and often have just a few seconds to jump off the bike and start shooting, the gimbal was also way too cumbersome and time-consuming. With it i would have to plan the shots and set up in advance and would miss most of what I can shoot now.

I have been thinking that a monopod might be a good compromise... One that was super fast to extend and clip the camera onto.   Trouble is i shoot with 2 bodies in low light.... One with a fast wide, the other a fast tele.

Currently I'm putting together a PTZ setup (Pan, Tilt & Zoom)
With that I can get great pictures of all kinds of stuff with less effort.

When I have the time I'm planning to practice doing something similar, shooting planes at my local airport, here in Clearwater. Would post pictures if successful.

Larry Rexley wrote:

Photato wrote:

Larry Rexley wrote:

Photato wrote:

Interesting as a challenge exercise but under such difficult conditions and more so for videos, I'd use a gimbal.
You are reaching the limits on what in-camera or lenses stabilization can do.

Very true, definitely the limits for the M series... the R7 would have some advantages here with its IBIS and higher quality video modes.

I do have a Zhiyun Crane M2 gimbal and thought it would solve all my stability problems ---- turns out for trains it really does not work, the tracking and framing needs to be far quicker and more precise than what I could get with any of the gimbal modes, even with sensitivity customizations. The camera EVF to the eye is far superior, I think. Also the gimbal was only useful for wide angle shots --- for telephoto images it was impossible to control and keep the train framed as it moved.

Good thought though..... I'll experiment with ithe gimbal more at some point. The gimbal does work amazingly well what the things it's good at, and I'm sure I'll get some good use out of it.

Interesting, I think ultimately, you could do it, but requires lots practice.
Probably would be easier with the gimbal set on a tripod.
I've been using the DJI Ronin SC with my M6ii and is a lot of fun, not just for videos.

Possibly I could improve, but the bigger problem is that i really have a hard time composing on the rear screen and tracking the action. My vision is such that only using the EVF allows me to concentrate on the subject and composition seamlessly without focusing on the camera controls.

If i used a tripod, like I do for dragon boat shooting, the gimbal is not needed.

As I chase the trains on bike and often have just a few seconds to jump off the bike and start shooting, the gimbal was also way too cumbersome and time-consuming. With it i would have to plan the shots and set up in advance and would miss most of what I can shoot now.

I have been thinking that a monopod might be a good compromise... One that was super fast to extend and clip the camera onto. Trouble is i shoot with 2 bodies in low light.... One with a fast wide, the other a fast tele.

Currently I'm putting together a PTZ setup (Pan, Tilt & Zoom)
With that I can get great pictures of all kinds of stuff with less effort.

When I have the time I'm planning to practice doing something similar, shooting planes at my local airport, here in Clearwater. Would post pictures if successful.

Ah ok, it looks like a complicated action packed affair.

I was gonna ask you how you knew the trains schedule, I thought you were using a train tracking app, like airplanes have. That way you could prepare better when the trains arrive.

Photato wrote:

Larry Rexley wrote:

Photato wrote:

Larry Rexley wrote:

Photato wrote:

Interesting as a challenge exercise but under such difficult conditions and more so for videos, I'd use a gimbal.
You are reaching the limits on what in-camera or lenses stabilization can do.

Very true, definitely the limits for the M series... the R7 would have some advantages here with its IBIS and higher quality video modes.

I do have a Zhiyun Crane M2 gimbal and thought it would solve all my stability problems ---- turns out for trains it really does not work, the tracking and framing needs to be far quicker and more precise than what I could get with any of the gimbal modes, even with sensitivity customizations. The camera EVF to the eye is far superior, I think. Also the gimbal was only useful for wide angle shots --- for telephoto images it was impossible to control and keep the train framed as it moved.

Good thought though..... I'll experiment with ithe gimbal more at some point. The gimbal does work amazingly well what the things it's good at, and I'm sure I'll get some good use out of it.

Interesting, I think ultimately, you could do it, but requires lots practice.
Probably would be easier with the gimbal set on a tripod.
I've been using the DJI Ronin SC with my M6ii and is a lot of fun, not just for videos.

Possibly I could improve, but the bigger problem is that i really have a hard time composing on the rear screen and tracking the action. My vision is such that only using the EVF allows me to concentrate on the subject and composition seamlessly without focusing on the camera controls.

If i used a tripod, like I do for dragon boat shooting, the gimbal is not needed.

As I chase the trains on bike and often have just a few seconds to jump off the bike and start shooting, the gimbal was also way too cumbersome and time-consuming. With it i would have to plan the shots and set up in advance and would miss most of what I can shoot now.

I have been thinking that a monopod might be a good compromise... One that was super fast to extend and clip the camera onto. Trouble is i shoot with 2 bodies in low light.... One with a fast wide, the other a fast tele.

Currently I'm putting together a PTZ setup (Pan, Tilt & Zoom)
With that I can get great pictures of all kinds of stuff with less effort.

When I have the time I'm planning to practice doing something similar, shooting planes at my local airport, here in Clearwater. Would post pictures if successful.

Ah ok, it looks like a complicated action packed affair.

I was gonna ask you how you knew the trains schedule, I thought you were using a train tracking app, like airplanes have. That way you could prepare better when the trains arrive.

Passenger Amtrak trains can be tracked at https://www.amtrak.com/track-your-train.html

Amtrak comes through Tampa twice a day, and since Tampa is a stub end station they leave the same way they come in a half hour later, making for 4 sightings a day. If on time Tampa arrivals are at 1 pm and 5 pm

Freight trains can't be tracked online. Local freight runs out of the Tampa train yards near 50th St and Adamo run on rough schedules that have time 'windows' of several hours. For example, Y295 street runs thru downtown Tampa usually Tue, Thu, Sun between about 6-9 pm returning 2-3 hours later.

Long distance trains East of the yards run on demand but there are 4 daily trains (2 inbound, 2 outbound) that run usually at times withing several hours apart each day. Intermodal I046 and mixed freight M442 usually leave within several hours of the last Amtrak train leaving town, between 5:40 and 8 pm.

You can listen to RR dispatch radio to hear when trains are active in the area but you have to know how to decipher the chicken squawk and train codes and locations. Tampa is dispatched by the CSX Valrico Subdivision. Apps like 'Scanner Radio' allow you to listen on your smartphone.

I've shot another railroad video this week, entirely at night on a fairly dark, Moonless night.

This time I took the EF-M 32mm f1.4 lens instead of the Sigma 16mm f1.4, along with the Rokinon 135mm f2 speed boosted with the VIltrox SB (making it a 100mm f1.4), and 2 M6ii cameras.

I am finding the Siggy 16 is so wide that the train looks too a bit 'stretched out' as it passes, and it was much smaller before the train gets close and when it goes away. With the 32mm I took care to find shooting spots where I could step back to still fit the train top-to-bottom in the frame --- the result is a much more natural-looking perspective where the train doesn't 'grow' so much into a distorted shape. But we knew all along the 'nifty fifty' perspective is a more balanced one... Finally I'm finding more uses for the amazing Canon EF-M 32...

I spent a lot more time this time post-processing the video clips with Adobe Premiere, carefully adjusting the white balance, exposure, and tone curves to bring out as much color and contrast as possible which trying to keep the noise low.

White balancing was really tricky - in some spots there was bright orange sodium-vapor lighting --- mixed with greenish lights. I found that a good strategy was to balance by trial-and-error.... in some cases I balanced a 'good white light' area, then an awful 'monochrome' lighted area --- noting the color temperature and tint values for both areas, then averaged the values and setting the temp and tint manually. This seemed to work very well, and gave me the first decent footage I've achieved in those mixed-lighting spots.

Much of the video looks like it was shot in 'good' lighting, more punchy than the usual washed-out grainy night video. This is some of the best 'night train' footage I think that can be found anywhere...

https://youtu.be/yyrfjTEjAdw

Larry Rexley wrote:

I've shot another railroad video this week, entirely at night on a fairly dark, Moonless night.

This time I took the EF-M 32mm f1.4 lens instead of the Sigma 16mm f1.4, along with the Rokinon 135mm f2 speed boosted with the VIltrox SB (making it a 100mm f1.4), and 2 M6ii cameras.

I am finding the Siggy 16 is so wide that the train looks too a bit 'stretched out' as it passes, and it was much smaller before the train gets close and when it goes away. With the 32mm I took care to find shooting spots where I could step back to still fit the train top-to-bottom in the frame --- the result is a much more natural-looking perspective where the train doesn't 'grow' so much into a distorted shape. But we knew all along the 'nifty fifty' perspective is a more balanced one... Finally I'm finding more uses for the amazing Canon EF-M 32...

I spent a lot more time this time post-processing the video clips with Adobe Premiere, carefully adjusting the white balance, exposure, and tone curves to bring out as much color and contrast as possible which trying to keep the noise low.

White balancing was really tricky - in some spots there was bright orange sodium-vapor lighting --- mixed with greenish lights. I found that a good strategy was to balance by trial-and-error.... in some cases I balanced a 'good white light' area, then an awful 'monochrome' lighted area --- noting the color temperature and tint values for both areas, then averaged the values and setting the temp and tint manually. This seemed to work very well, and gave me the first decent footage I've achieved in those mixed-lighting spots.

Much of the video looks like it was shot in 'good' lighting, more punchy than the usual washed-out grainy night video. This is some of the best 'night train' footage I think that can be found anywhere...

https://youtu.be/yyrfjTEjAdw

Wow ! Nice work !

I like the 32mm for car shows. Have to stand back and wait for people to pass and such but I like the way cars look when using the 32mm.

I have tried many different Canon crop lenses at car shows and the ones I did with the 32mm came out the best. Sharpest with great colors.

Group photos too. Have to get back but so very little distortion and fast and sharp wide open.

No IS no playing.

Sold all my zooms except my 11-22mm I use for ebay and Craigslist photos.

I like Photolab 6 and like working on my M6II 32mm raw files. I kinda think Photolab likes the 32mm too.

If I had to have just one lens it would be the EF-M 32mm.