Torn between MFT camera options to buy as a beginner for casual photography

pannumon wrote:

GX85 vs G85 was discussed in this recent thread: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66561082

G85 is quite a bit heavier than the G7 you handled and G85 also feels more solid in hand.

A camera body + 12-32mm / 12-60mm + 25mm f/1.7 would make a decent kit. If you don't plant to change lenses, then there are great 1"-type (type 1) sensor compact cameras (namely Panasonic LX, Sony RX -series) that should fit the budget.

The Lumix 12-32mm, the 12-60mm from the G85 and the Lumix 25mm f/1.7 lenses would probably be all I need.

I did initially look at compact 1" point and shoots like the LX10 and RX100 III before finding out about M4/3 and APS-C ILCs.

gary0319 wrote:

I own and have owned some of the high end M43 Olympus cameras, but I don't consider them when I just want to take some great images in a "casual" manner.

My camera of choice is my E-M10 Mark IV (or chose the E-M10 II). I won't lug my OM1 and Pro lenses to a picnic, or walk on the beach at sunset, or for a fly in fishing trip....that kit is just too big. And none of my companions on these casual outings appreciate having to put up with the 'Camera Guy".

Save some money and get a camera that not only takes great images, even with the kit lenses, but is small, and has some dandy in-camera computational features like your smart phone. So, give a look to the Olympus E-M10 series with a 14-42 pancake kit lens and if you want some extra reach buy the inexpensive 40-150 f/4-5.6 lens. The Dragon Fly image below garnered a blue ribbon in statewide competition with the E-M10 IV and el-cheapo 40-150 lens.

E-M10 IV with 40-150 f/-5.6 (lens cost me less than $100)

E-M10 IV, kit lens Sunset computational mode.

E-M10 IV with kit lens, Handheld Starlight computational mode

E-M10 IV with 14-42 EZ kit lens

I have considered the the E-M10 series and found E-M10 II and III models as either bodies or with the kit lens at varying prices and I haven't felt sure if I should get one or not but thought I may get more mileage with an E-M5 II body instead.

The 10 IV with the 14-42mm kit lens retails for $1049 CAD before tax here.

Sensenacai wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

I own and have owned some of the high end M43 Olympus cameras, but I don't consider them when I just want to take some great images in a "casual" manner.

My camera of choice is my E-M10 Mark IV (or chose the E-M10 II). I won't lug my OM1 and Pro lenses to a picnic, or walk on the beach at sunset, or for a fly in fishing trip....that kit is just too big. And none of my companions on these casual outings appreciate having to put up with the 'Camera Guy".

Save some money and get a camera that not only takes great images, even with the kit lenses, but is small, and has some dandy in-camera computational features like your smart phone. So, give a look to the Olympus E-M10 series with a 14-42 pancake kit lens and if you want some extra reach buy the inexpensive 40-150 f/4-5.6 lens. The Dragon Fly image below garnered a blue ribbon in statewide competition with the E-M10 IV and el-cheapo 40-150 lens.

E-M10 IV with 40-150 f/-5.6 (lens cost me less than $100)

E-M10 IV, kit lens Sunset computational mode.

E-M10 IV with kit lens, Handheld Starlight computational mode

E-M10 IV with 14-42 EZ kit lens

I have considered the the E-M10 series and found E-M10 II and III models as either bodies or with the kit lens at varying prices and I haven't felt sure if I should get one or not but thought I may get more mileage with an E-M5 II body instead.

The 10 IV with the 14-42mm kit lens retails for $1049 CAD before tax here.

I had the E-M5 II and sold it in favor of the E-M10 II. Personal preference to be sure, but never regretted the decision. The E-M10 IV will run circles around the E-M5 II in the auto focus department, and the newer 20mpx Sony sensor in the E-M10 IV generates image quality that is indistinguishable from the images from either my OM-1 or E-M5 III.  If you like the idea of the smaller camera, than the 10 series is hard to beat, IMO.

This is my E-M10 III next to an iPhone 6

Sensenacai wrote:

...I personally lean towards the rangefinder aesthetic of the GX85...

I have both a GX85 and GX9 (as well as two Sony's and two film cameras).

I have never noticed the issue that you seem worried about with my cameras.

You can pick-up a GX85 on Amazon  (or look at used for about $550 USD).

gary0319 wrote:

I had the E-M5 II and sold it in favor of the E-M10 II. Personal preference to be sure, but never regretted the decision. The E-M10 IV will run circles around the E-M5 II in the auto focus department, and the newer 20mpx Sony sensor in the E-M10 IV generates image quality that is indistinguishable from the images from either my OM-1 or E-M5 III. If you like the idea of the smaller camera, than the 10 series is hard to beat, IMO.

This is my E-M10 III next to an iPhone 6

Going from an E-M5 II to an E-M10 II sounds like a downgrade unless you found that there wasn't anything special about the E-M5 II that the E-M10 II didn't have.

If the 10 IV was a few hundred dollars cheaper I may have considered it but it doesn't look like it will be anytime soon.

Aberaeron wrote:

It is about the same size but heavier than a G7. Very comfortable to hold. I almost certainly have bigger hands but not extremely so, but I find cameras like GX80, E-M10/5 have insufficient depth of grip, both vertically and horizontally for comfortable handling and both my E-M10 and GX80 have grip extensions fitted.

Since none are easily pocketable, my personal preference would be a G7, G85 or my personal favourite, the E-M1 mkII. However, for you, buy whatever you find appropriate as they are all great cameras with massive potential for you to grow from basic to very advanced features. It’s just a matter of what you fancy suits you best. I love shooting with them all.

It's the Sony A6XXX cameras I tested at my local electronics store (the only one with a decent but limited display) that I fancied the most for both their rangefinder design and ergonomics but wouldn't get one because of what I think is a disappointing balance of features.

And you're right that the GX85 and E-M10/5 cameras don't look to have a substantial amount of grip which would mean needing to spend more to buy a grip extension while the G85 is ergonomically complete.

Aberaeron wrote:

Don’t forget that you need a lens or probably more, eventually. Essential first accessory is an SD card and lens but the SD card will not break your bank these days.

Yea I'm aware. I was thinking of starting off with a basic kit lens like an Olympus 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6, the Lumix 12-32mm pancake or the Lumix 25mm f1.7 prime.

Sensenacai wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

I had the E-M5 II and sold it in favor of the E-M10 II. Personal preference to be sure, but never regretted the decision. The E-M10 IV will run circles around the E-M5 II in the auto focus department, and the newer 20mpx Sony sensor in the E-M10 IV generates image quality that is indistinguishable from the images from either my OM-1 or E-M5 III. If you like the idea of the smaller camera, than the 10 series is hard to beat, IMO.

This is my E-M10 III next to an iPhone 6

Going from an E-M5 II to an E-M10 II sounds like a downgrade unless you found that there wasn't anything special about the E-M5 II that the E-M10 II didn't have.

Yes, I had an early version E-M10 II that had a factory recall, and while waiting for a replacement I ran into a good deal on an E-M5 II. But after using it for a bit, I found that there was nothing significant and repurchased the E-M10 II, which I kept for many years before gifting it to my brother.

If the 10 IV was a few hundred dollars cheaper I may have considered it but it doesn't look like it will be anytime soon.

Maybe an E-M10 II on the used market would fit the bill. My favorite small Olympus, right after the mark IV. I would choose the Mark II over the III.

Aberaeron wrote:

It’s a pity you have no big used camera dealers like mpb in Canada. Here in the UK the going rate for as new E-M10 mkIi, widely considered as the best E-M10 model, is UK£220 body only, delivered to my door.

I love mine but prefer using my E-M1 mk2. The picture quality is indistinguishable.

lol it sucks. I wish we had at least one used camera dealer company like MPB in Canada, just one. But maybe there's a bigger market on account of the population size in both the US and UK compared to Canada which might be why we don't have an MPB here.

Will carry you through everything in the foreseeable future. Best value for money, as others have mentioned.

gary0319 wrote:

Sensenacai wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

I had the E-M5 II and sold it in favor of the E-M10 II. Personal preference to be sure, but never regretted the decision. The E-M10 IV will run circles around the E-M5 II in the auto focus department, and the newer 20mpx Sony sensor in the E-M10 IV generates image quality that is indistinguishable from the images from either my OM-1 or E-M5 III. If you like the idea of the smaller camera, than the 10 series is hard to beat, IMO.

This is my E-M10 III next to an iPhone 6

Going from an E-M5 II to an E-M10 II sounds like a downgrade unless you found that there wasn't anything special about the E-M5 II that the E-M10 II didn't have.

Yes, I had an early version E-M10 II that had a factory recall, and while waiting for a replacement I ran into a good deal on an E-M5 II. But after using it for a bit, I found that there was nothing significant and repurchased the E-M10 II, which I kept for many years before gifting it to my brother.

If the 10 IV was a few hundred dollars cheaper I may have considered it but it doesn't look like it will be anytime soon.

Maybe an E-M10 II on the used market would fit the bill. My favorite small Olympus, right after the mark IV. I would choose the Mark II over the III.

The E-M10 II is rather scarce to find on the used market here, and I understand that it has the same metal alloy construction as the E-M5 II which would make it more durable than the plastic body of the E-M10 III.

Sensenacai wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

Sensenacai wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

I had the E-M5 II and sold it in favor of the E-M10 II. Personal preference to be sure, but never regretted the decision. The E-M10 IV will run circles around the E-M5 II in the auto focus department, and the newer 20mpx Sony sensor in the E-M10 IV generates image quality that is indistinguishable from the images from either my OM-1 or E-M5 III. If you like the idea of the smaller camera, than the 10 series is hard to beat, IMO.

This is my E-M10 III next to an iPhone 6

Going from an E-M5 II to an E-M10 II sounds like a downgrade unless you found that there wasn't anything special about the E-M5 II that the E-M10 II didn't have.

Yes, I had an early version E-M10 II that had a factory recall, and while waiting for a replacement I ran into a good deal on an E-M5 II. But after using it for a bit, I found that there was nothing significant and repurchased the E-M10 II, which I kept for many years before gifting it to my brother.

If the 10 IV was a few hundred dollars cheaper I may have considered it but it doesn't look like it will be anytime soon.

Maybe an E-M10 II on the used market would fit the bill. My favorite small Olympus, right after the mark IV. I would choose the Mark II over the III.

The E-M10 II is rather scarce to find on the used market here, and I understand that it has the same metal alloy construction as the E-M5 II which would make it more durable than the plastic body of the E-M10 III.

Interesting (about to the construction). I had the EM5 mkii and absolutely loved the build of the camera.

I tried an EM10 model in a store (probably the mkiii) and it felt very plastic and cheap in comparison. I kind of want to find an EM10 mkii now 🙂.

The advantage of the EM5 mkii for me was that it supported sync image stabalization. That was quite nice when I got the 300mm pro. If it had phase detect autofocus I would still be using it.

I have a GX85 and no regrets buying it. With the 12-32mm it fits in a jacket pocket (not possible with any of the EVF hump cameras like the G85 or E-M5 II). The EVF is fine for me. I bought a used 14-140mm f/3.5-5.6 and it is perfect for travel. Entire kit fits in a DSLR holster bag (intended to fit one with a standard zoom kit lens).

If you don't care about size/weight however, G85 may be a better option. It has a better EVF as you point out, better stabilization (Dual IS 2 instead of Dual IS), weather-sealing, a FAS (which may or may not be a positive vs the GX85's tilt screen, depending on your preferences), microphone jack, and Cine-like profiles included (although there are hacks to add it to GX85).

Here in the US, Bestbuy does carry demos of the GX85, you may be able to find on their website perhaps a store that has a demo one.

JakeJY wrote:

I have a GX85 and no regrets buying it. With the 12-32mm it fits in a jacket pocket (not possible with any of the EVF hump cameras like the G85 or E-M5 II). The EVF is fine for me. I bought a used 14-140mm f/3.5-5.6 and it is perfect for travel. Entire kit fits in a DSLR holster bag (intended to fit one with a standard zoom kit lens).

If you don't care about size/weight however, G85 may be a better option. It has a better EVF as you point out, better stabilization (Dual IS 2 instead of Dual IS), weather-sealing, a FAS (which may or may not be a positive vs the GX85's tilt screen, depending on your preferences), microphone jack, and Cine-like profiles included (although there are hacks to add it to GX85).

Here in the US, Bestbuy does carry demos of the GX85, you may be able to find on their website perhaps a store that has a demo one.

I wish I could just easily buy the GX85 kit without worrying too much about the EVF but I have no room for buyer's remorse and neither does my bank account haha. I visited both Best Buy's in my city and neither of them have a GX85 on display or in stock online. Only place I can find it brand new in Canada is this kit shipped and sold by Amazon Canada.

As for the G85, it checks a lot of boxes but I'm not sure if the fully articulating screen is something to dislike compared to a tilting one though the GX85's screen doesn't tilt 180 degrees upwards which I find a bit odd.

FYI, Henry's camera store and vistek both have decent used inventories that they post online. Unfortunately Henry's website is now terrible but vistek is okay. The Camera Store in Calgary has some used inventory but you'll have to call and ask. They do ship though.

Longdolphin01 wrote:

FYI, Henry's camera store and vistek both have decent used inventories that they post online. Unfortunately Henry's website is now terrible but vistek is okay. The Camera Store in Calgary has some used inventory but you'll have to call and ask. They do ship though.

Both Henry's and Vistek don't have positive track records so I've avoided checking them out.