Torn between MFT camera options to buy as a beginner for casual photography

Hey all, I'm looking to buy my first digital camera for casual still image photography after using only smartphones and the cameras on my current phone (LG G6) just don't suffice anymore as they lack sharpness and detail.

I'm mostly looking to shoot still images of a variety of miscellaneous subjects and maybe the rare video if the need arises. Here is a collection of unedited JPEG photos I've shot from my current phone to give you an idea of things I take pictures of.

I've spent weeks researching digital cameras and narrowed them down to a few options based on specs, features, the UI, lenses etc and mostly settled on MFT cameras.

At the moment I'm feeling torn between the Lumix GX85, G85 and Olympus E-M5 II. The trouble here is that none of these cameras are available on display in any store in my city for me to test out. There's a Best Buy that has a G7 I tested out which I guess is nearly identical to the G85 and that's about it.

I personally lean towards the rangefinder aesthetic of the GX85 but my main concern with that camera that may completely deter me from buying it is the field-sequential viewfinder. I've read and listened to many complaints about the GX85's EVF such as rainbow tearing artifacts, a blurry image, the EVF lens being made of plastic, uneven viewing angles and the display image being cropped by the 16:9 aspect ratio. Because I'm unable to find one to test out, I'm hesitant to make a decision on buying the GX85 if I don't know what I will see from peering into its EVF. I peered into the EVFs of the Lumix G7, Sony A6000 and A6400 that were on display at Best Buy and the image looked great since they are using OLED(?) panels for the EVF and I'm worried the GX85 EVF will look worse by comparison.

The conspicuous design aesthetic of the G85 or E-M5 II are not to my taste but I can settle on the compromise if it means having an EVF superior to the GX85.

Here in Canada we don't have reputable companies with large secondhand inventories like B&H, MPB, KEH or Adorama so I've mostly been browsing Kijiji (Canadian verison of Craigslist), Facebook's Marketplace or Buy/Sell groups and B&H for used deals. The USD prices of used options at B&H look similar to what I've found in Canada but after currency conversion and the import fees and taxes they're more expensive but you can at least buy a protection plan from them and shipping on most cameras is free.

There's this Olympus E-M5 II body I found on kijiji for $450 CAD being sold by someone with high ratings/reviews. I've been looking out for holiday discounts on the G85 with the kit lens that retails in Canada for $899 CAD and this GX85 kit from B&H that's often on sale for $597 USD (or this this GX85 kit shipped and sold by Amazon Canada with a fluctuating price but unsure about the protection plan they offer) but I'm curious if either camera will be discounted lower than their current prices for the holiday sales. My budget is about $700 CAD so I'm trying not to stretch it further than that.

Any purchasing advice? Sorry for the long post.

Sensenacai wrote:

Hey all, I'm looking to buy my first digital camera for casual still image photography after using only smartphones and the cameras on my current phone (LG G6) just don't suffice anymore as they lack sharpness and detail.

I'm mostly looking to shoot still images of a variety of miscellaneous subjects and maybe the rare video if the need arises. Here is a collection of unedited JPEG photos I've shot from my current phone to give you an idea of things I take pictures of.

I've spent weeks researching digital cameras and narrowed them down to a few options based on specs, features, the UI, lenses etc and mostly settled on MFT cameras.

At the moment I'm feeling torn between the Lumix GX85, G85 and Olympus E-M5 II. The trouble here is that none of these cameras are available on display in any store in my city for me to test out. There's a Best Buy that has a G7 I tested out which I guess is nearly identical to the G85 and that's about it.

I personally lean towards the rangefinder aesthetic of the GX85 but my main concern with that camera that may completely deter me from buying it is the field-sequential viewfinder. I've read and listened to many complaints about the GX85's EVF such as rainbow tearing artifacts, a blurry image, the EVF lens being made of plastic, uneven viewing angles and the display image being cropped by the 16:9 aspect ratio. Because I'm unable to find one to test out, I'm hesitant to make a decision on buying the GX85 if I don't know what I will see from peering into its EVF. I peered into the EVFs of the Lumix G7, Sony A6000 and A6400 that were on display at Best Buy and the image looked great since they are using OLED(?) panels for the EVF and I'm worried the GX85 EVF will look worse by comparison.

The conspicuous design aesthetic of the G85 or E-M5 II are not to my taste but I can settle on the compromise if it means having an EVF superior to the GX85.

Here in Canada we don't have reputable companies with large secondhand inventories like B&H, MPB, KEH or Adorama so I've mostly been browsing Kijiji (Canadian verison of Craigslist), Facebook's Marketplace or Buy/Sell groups and B&H for used deals. The USD prices of used options at B&H look similar to what I've found in Canada but after currency conversion and the import fees and taxes they're more expensive but you can at least buy a protection plan from them and shipping on most cameras is free.

There's this Olympus E-M5 II body I found on kijiji for $450 CAD being sold by someone with high ratings/reviews. I've been looking out for holiday discounts on the G85 with the kit lens that retails in Canada for $899 CAD and this GX85 kit from B&H that's often on sale for $597 USD (or this this GX85 kit shipped and sold by Amazon Canada with a fluctuating price but unsure about the protection plan they offer) but I'm curious if either camera will be discounted lower than their current prices for the holiday sales. My budget is about $700 CAD so I'm trying not to stretch it further than that.

Any purchasing advice? Sorry for the long post.

To me the EVF of GX85/GX9 is absolutely fine. It is sharp, good resolution and not so small as many make it sound. The image is nog cropped, but, the EVF is 16:9, meaning that if you shoot in 4:3, not the whole area of the EVF is used for the image. The black bars on the side are used for some info though. And if you shoot in e.g. 3:2, the image gets wider in the EVF too. Rainbow tiering has never been a problem for me. That is only visible if you pan the camera quickly, and even then I really have to look for it. But this is a personal thing: some people don’s see it at all, others are more sensitive.

The G85 EVF is superior though; for me mostly because it is larger. I have a GX9 (same EVF), and when looking through a Canon M50, Fuji XT30 I don’t feel they are larger or better.

I would say:

1. It is personal

2. if you are used to a much better EVF, you may find it a problem (I wasn’t)

3. Panasonic back screens are excellent: I don’t use the EVF that much (although I wouldn’t want to miss it)

if budget stretches, the GX9/G95 are highly recommendable.

if not, GX85 is great, G85 is better (EVF, IBIS),  but I like the RF style body and the smaller form factor. Can’t judge on the Oly.

if you want the GX85 but are concerned about the EVF: order one new, it will be fine and if not, you can send it back

I have the GX85 and the G85. The viewfinder on the G85 is great, it gives a better view than the rear LCD. The GX85 is the opposite. The G85's controls layout is better too IMHO.

I have G80/G9 and ( recent purchase) an EM1.3. Bought the EM1.3 from mpb.com here in the U.K. and traded my GX80 for it. The GX80 is OK but way behind the G80, which has a much better EVF, more flexible screen and more Fn controls. If you wear spectacles the G80 EVF will be the easiest to use of the three you list. Also, it was way to easy to accidentally switch off the GX80 when using the rear wheel control.

Olympus cameras are, unfortunately, not intuitive to configure with a long learning curve. Took me a couple weeks to get basic settings, like AEB.

The kit  Panasonic 12-60mm lens is very good, with a useful zoom range and and quite close focus range.

If you haven’t already, I’d download the PDF manuals for each camera and gain some insight to how they operate.

I found the 5 mkii to be fantastic. It's main downside is that its continuous autofocus is not good because it does not have phase autofocus, so it is not great at shooting moving objects. Otherwise, it is a very high quality small camera body. You can probably find a lightly used version for $200 if you shop around a bit.

The EM1 mkii is also an incredible value on the used market and is much better at shooting moving objects (it has phase autofocus). But it is a larger camera, so it depends on what you are looking for. The EM5 mkiii is essentially a smaller EM1 mkii (but it's build is not as high end as the EM5 mkii...not really a practical issue, but a downside of you like things that have a premium feel to them).

Many also seem to love the Olympus Pen-F. It has a different form than the EM-1 and EM-5 product lines. It has great build. It will give you a 20 megapixel sensor, but lacks phase detect autofocus (do not great at shooting moving subjects). The Pen-F has a bit of a cult following, so it is often more expensive than other micro 4/3 cameras with similar specs.

Note that I don't talk about Panasonic cameras, because I am not very familiar with them. However, they also have great options.

windmillgolfer wrote:

I have G80/G9 and ( recent purchase) an EM1.3. Bought the EM1.3 from mpb.com here in the U.K. and traded my GX80 for it. The GX80 is OK but way behind the G80, which has a much better EVF, more flexible screen and more Fn controls. If you wear spectacles the G80 EVF will be the easiest to use of the three you list. Also, it was way to easy to accidentally switch off the GX80 when using the rear wheel control.

Olympus cameras are, unfortunately, not intuitive to configure with a long learning curve. Took me a couple weeks to get basic settings, like AEB.

Don't know Panasonic cameras, but have Panny lenses. But for me in 2014 I came straight from film cameras to an EM-1 I. I was intimidated by the menu, but that was because it covers many things I ended up never using like AEB. Most all settings are easy to access on the LCD settings screen. But it is still a good idea to read the manual with the camera in hand a couple of times. You will soon find that much of it is superfluous for most shooters and situations. I am far from a tech nerd and would find a phone overwhelming, as I find my TV; but my camera proved to me relatively easy once I actually started shooting. Now, eight years in, I am a much better photographer with my m4/3 gear than I ever was with film cameras after years of use.

It is more difficult initially to become a very good photographer with digital cameras because you have so many potential controls; but most are easy to access on the rear screen Super Control Panel; you can also control aperture, SS, exposure, and ISO so much more precisely than with anything other than a good camera. I have an EM-1 I, two excellent EM-1 II's, and another body for birding.

The kit Panasonic 12-60mm lens is very good, with a useful zoom range and and quite close focus range.

Pro lenses are maybe 10-20% sharper than most consumer grade lenses; but just starting out, you would be happy with most consumer grade lenses. For eventual Pro lenses, should you so desire, Olympus new 12-45, 8-25, and 40-150 F4's are all of excellent quality; I have the 12-45. A zoom is far better for precise framing. F4 is probably not the best for low light, indoor use.

If you haven’t already, I’d download the PDF manuals for each camera and gain some insight to how they operate.

I have used MPB to buy a used EM-1 II, folks also say Fred Miranda is a good used camera source. KEH and B&H are others.

GX85 vs G85 was discussed in this recent thread: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66561082

G85 is quite a bit heavier than the G7 you handled and G85 also feels more solid in hand.

A camera body + 12-32mm / 12-60mm + 25mm f/1.7 would make a decent kit. If you don't plant to change lenses, then there are great 1"-type (type 1) sensor compact cameras (namely Panasonic LX, Sony RX -series) that should fit the budget.

I own and have owned some of the high end M43 Olympus cameras, but I don't consider them when I just want to take some great images in a "casual" manner.

My camera of choice is my E-M10 Mark IV (or chose the E-M10 II). I won't lug my OM1 and Pro lenses to a picnic, or walk on the beach at sunset, or for a fly in fishing trip....that kit is just too big. And none of my companions on these casual outings appreciate having to put up with the 'Camera Guy".

Save some money and get a camera that not only takes great images, even with the kit lenses, but is small, and has some dandy in-camera computational features like your smart phone. So, give a look to the Olympus E-M10 series with a 14-42 pancake kit lens and if you want some extra reach buy the inexpensive 40-150 f/4-5.6 lens. The Dragon Fly image below garnered a blue ribbon in statewide competition with the E-M10 IV and el-cheapo 40-150 lens.

E-M10 IV with 40-150 f/-5.6 (lens cost me less than $100)

E-M10 IV, kit lens Sunset computational mode.

E-M10 IV with kit lens, Handheld Starlight computational mode

E-M10 IV with 14-42 EZ kit lens

The E-M1 II looks to be a little too large for what I want to be carrying in my small hands.

windmillgolfer wrote:

I have G80/G9 and ( recent purchase) an EM1.3. Bought the EM1.3 from mpb.com here in the U.K. and traded my GX80 for it. The GX80 is OK but way behind the G80, which has a much better EVF, more flexible screen and more Fn controls. If you wear spectacles the G80 EVF will be the easiest to use of the three you list. Also, it was way to easy to accidentally switch off the GX80 when using the rear wheel control.

Olympus cameras are, unfortunately, not intuitive to configure with a long learning curve. Took me a couple weeks to get basic settings, like AEB.

The kit Panasonic 12-60mm lens is very good, with a useful zoom range and and quite close focus range.

If you haven’t already, I’d download the PDF manuals for each camera and gain some insight to how they operate.

Apparently the G85's EVF has something to it that allows polarized sunglasses to see through it without being blacked out/dimmed by the polarization layer of the sunglasses, which is a neat feature.

It has been said that Panasonic has the more intuitive and user-friendly UI (user interface) and from what I've seen it seems to be true so that's an advantage too.

uniball wrote:

Coming from a smartphone, you need to get an idea of what you’re willing to carry. If it doesn’t feel good in hand, you risk buying a paperweight. Friends, comparable cameras that are in local stores. Try to get an idea. Less expensive Sony APSC vs a Fuji XT20 or 30 if those are available.

Looking at your images (good idea), your low light photos will benefit from strong IBIS, an f1.7/1.8, 14mm to 25mm prime and a mid-range kit zoom. Oly EM5, EM10, EP7. I have the latter.

On the other hand, having both brands, I find Panasonics far easier to shoot in dynamic situations. The controls sets and UI are better thought out. I have more confidence my GX9 or GM1 will last far longer than when the bits start falling off the newer EP7. However, you give up some stabilization.

It’s your first camera, not your last. Go cheap, used works and grow into your next step. I'd go for the GX85 with either the 2 lens kit plus the 25/1.7, or body only and the prime plus the newer 14-42 II. Check out Flickr and you can see the GX85 is hardly an impediment to fine photography.

I suspect a meaningful improvement over that is going to cost materially more.

There are barely any electronics stores in my city with cameras on display to test out so I'm at a loss for getting a feel of different cameras. I did like the ergonomics of the Sony A6000, A6400 and Lumix G7 (identical to the G85?) cameras I tested out at a local Best Buy but the tradeoffs in features of the Sony cameras make them less attractive.

And yes since it's my first camera I'm looking to spend less than $1K CAD on one. The GX85 kit looks like it would make for a good start but the concern about the EVF continues to bite at my decisiveness and no amount of reassurance seems to be calming it that I find myself leaning towards the G85 for peace of mind.

ChrisFB wrote:

To me the EVF of GX85/GX9 is absolutely fine. It is sharp, good resolution and not so small as many make it sound. The image is nog cropped, but, the EVF is 16:9, meaning that if you shoot in 4:3, not the whole area of the EVF is used for the image. The black bars on the side are used for some info though. And if you shoot in e.g. 3:2, the image gets wider in the EVF too. Rainbow tiering has never been a problem for me. That is only visible if you pan the camera quickly, and even then I really have to look for it. But this is a personal thing: some people don’s see it at all, others are more sensitive.

The G85 EVF is superior though; for me mostly because it is larger. I have a GX9 (same EVF), and when looking through a Canon M50, Fuji XT30 I don’t feel they are larger or better.

I would say:

1. It is personal

2. if you are used to a much better EVF, you may find it a problem (I wasn’t)

3. Panasonic back screens are excellent: I don’t use the EVF that much (although I wouldn’t want to miss it)

if budget stretches, the GX9/G95 are highly recommendable.

if not, GX85 is great, G85 is better (EVF, IBIS), but I like the RF style body and the smaller form factor. Can’t judge on the Oly.

if you want the GX85 but are concerned about the EVF: order one new, it will be fine and if not, you can send it back

Plenty of others have voiced a positive opinion on the GX7 / GX85 / GX9 EVF and that's caused me to feel conflicted between those GX cameras and the G85.

The GX9 is $999+ CAD here which is further outside my budget sadly unless there will be a significant discount on it. The tilting EVF seems like such a useful feature.

PhotonBeam wrote:

I found the 5 mkii to be fantastic. It's main downside is that its continuous autofocus is not good because it does not have phase autofocus, so it is not great at shooting moving objects. Otherwise, it is a very high quality small camera body. You can probably find a lightly used version for $200 if you shop around a bit.

The EM1 mkii is also an incredible value on the used market and is much better at shooting moving objects (it has phase autofocus). But it is a larger camera, so it depends on what you are looking for. The EM5 mkiii is essentially a smaller EM1 mkii (but it's build is not as high end as the EM5 mkii...not really a practical issue, but a downside of you like things that have a premium feel to them).

Many also seem to love the Olympus Pen-F. It has a different form than the EM-1 and EM-5 product lines. It has great build. It will give you a 20 megapixel sensor, but lacks phase detect autofocus (do not great at shooting moving subjects). The Pen-F has a bit of a cult following, so it is often more expensive than other micro 4/3 cameras with similar specs.

Note that I don't talk about Panasonic cameras, because I am not very familiar with them. However, they also have great options.

E-M5 III or E-M1 II bodies are being sold at prices far outside my budget range while I'm finding E-M5 II bodies being sold at around $500 CAD which doesn't sound too bad for a camera body that used to retail new for more than $1000+ CAD.

AshleyMC wrote:

With your budget of CAD 700, you should look for used cameras.

If you use the EVF virtually exclusively to frame the subjects (like I do), the better EVF in the G85 should take priority over “camera body design aesthetic”.

I have used a G85. It is compact and well-built, and provides excellent capabilities for the user — especially a beginner — to explore while developing the photographic eye and skills, way beyond the gear-centric obsessions.

The G85 is usually bundled with the versatile 12-60mm zoom lens. As you gain practical experience over the years, you will want to get more lenses.

Good luck!

EDIT: This could be an interesting consideration:

You make a good point about the EVF in the G85 taking priority over concern for design aesthetics if I will be doing a lot of framing with the EVF. The G7 I handled at Best Buy looked and felt compact in the hand with a comfortably strong grip so I would expect the G85 to be the same. I just hope I won't stand out as a "photographer" in public with it though if I mount on a compact lens maybe I won't.

I was considering the Sony A6000 but it's kind of baffling that a camera that old without a touchscreen or IBIS is being sold for that much. I actually felt gravitated towards the Sony A6XXX cameras and have considered the A6000, A6300 and A6100 but my frustration with the A6K series cameras is the tradeoffs or omission of features they have like no touchscreen and IBIS or with a touchscreen but no IBIS.

Gary from Seattle wrote:

I have used MPB to buy a used EM-1 II, folks also say Fred Miranda is a good used camera source. KEH and B&H are others.

With B&H they show you the import fees/duties and taxes you will pay at the checkout and give you the option of letting them handle it or pay those fees yourself.