Recent launches and future of the X-Pro series

A few thoughts I wanted to share on recent Fuji releases and what they (may) represent.

Small recap

Back in October 2019, the release of the X-Pro3 showed that Fujifilm is ready to experiment, much to the disappointment of some long time X-Pro users. Some still swear by the unique screen design and some call it, at best, creative segmentation.

Either way it's fair to say this was a very polarizing release. Subsequent cameras such as the X-T4 suffered to a lesser extent from similar controversy and polarization at launch. A recurring claim observed at the time was that Fuji was loosing its way.

However, the successive releases of X-T4, X-H2S/X-H2 and X-T5 releases have showed that Fuji had/has a pretty good idea of where its different lines should stand. Or at least, they seem to have a plan and stick to it.

It now indeed seems Fuji never moved away from it's original idea of having a high performance-rugged hybrid camera - the X-H line - but the rather unfortunate debacle/mix-up surrounding the X-H1 and X-T3 launch really made things unnecessarily complicated.

(Note the X-H1 is a good camera regardless, but its timing relative to the market was objectively off).

After the X-T3's release, the main recurring requests were for IBIS, better battery life paired with the X-T3's sensor and AF capabilities on par or better with the competition. By then it was clear the new generation of X-H line was not going to be ready in time, especially if Fuji was planning to introduce a stacked sensor - which was clearly the way forward, as showed by the positive response to Sony's A9 when introduced a few months prior to the X-H1.

The X-T series had to assume the provisional and informal role of Fujifilm's technological flagship, as releasing a mid gen hardware update for the X-H1 was probably off the table.

The X-T4's particular hybrid design clearly had a stopgap quality before the advent of the second gen X-Hs and their new tech.

Possible questions whether it was a true and complete successor to the X-T3 was accentuated by the fact that the older model was kept being produced and sold along the X-T4.

Regardless, the X-T4 was a great camera when it came out and is still excellent to this day, but it is also undeniably a victim of circumstances, its controversial design choices being dictated by the market, the timing, and the state of technology.

With the X-T4's particular hybrid design acting as a stopgap, Fuji had bought enough time for the X-H line to come out and reclaim the title of "highest performing camera in the X-series", for which it was initially advertised.

Accordingly, the X-T5 could then be developed within the framework of core features that granted the X-T line its popularity, instead of having to trade some of that to accommodate best-in-system technology/performance.

Was this part of Fuji's plan or did they change course after the X-T4's launch? Tough to tell.

The X-T5

The X-T5 is what many X-T2 and X-T3 users were hoping the X-T4 would be (based on what I've read on this forum over the last few years), and Fuji's marketing clearly hints at that.

It does also seem, based on specifications and first impressions that the X-T5 really is "the" upgrade to the X-T3, but largely also is an upgrade over the X-T4.

Granted, the full width ES drive speed is indeed slower (13fps vs 20 fps) - you still get the 20fps with a 1.29x crop (31MP), at the cost of noise performance - and loose the top end ES drive 30fps speed with 1.25x crop of the X-T3 and X-T4. There is also the loss of the battery grip and potentially the annoyance of headphone jack brought over from the X-T4.

There were some reactions that the video specs are somehow substantially worse, but I don't find that to be the case - 4k60p now has a smaller crop of 1.14x while having the addition of 4k30p HQ and 6.2k30p with a 1.23x crop and high speed slow-mo has a smaller 1.23x crop, 10 Bit 4.2.2 internal recording and RAW via an external recorder.

Obviously time will tell how well the 40 MP sensor really performs (DPR's studio scene of the X-H2 shows it is slightly more noisy than the X-T4) and how bad the rolling shutter is compared to the X-T3 and X-T4.

It seems to be a reasonable package for what it is. One interesting thing though is the X-T5's marketing headline - "Photography first"

The future of the X-Pro series

As said previously, Fuji picks up market trends and seems to adapt fairly well.

With the X-Pro3 being marketed as photocentric camera it's going to be interesting to see what happens with the X-Pro series,

The X-Pro is one of the most distinctive and unique cameras on the market, so I don't really think it is going anywhere. As I have been told at a local photography shop - If can't get a Leica M, get an X-Pro, if can't get a Leica Q2, get an X100V.

Having said that, will the upcoming X-Pro retain its most distinctive feature - the screen design - or will Fuji acknowledge the partially negative response towards it, will it address the OVF design and Titanium construction flaws/reliability issues?

My take is that we may see Fuji drop Titanium versions for the next X-Pro. I think the screen will remain, as it really is something unique that has since gotten praise from people that use it regularly. The OVF will probably not revert back to the dual magnification OVF system of the X-Pro2.

With the X-T5 being repositioned as a more photography leaning hybrid, I'd say Fuji will probably double down on the uniqueness of the X-Pro line, instead of bringing it back closer to the X-T line by reverting back to a classic screen - either fixed or 2-way of the X100V. This will probably upset some folks who are holding out the hope of seeing a new X-Pro with a classic screen - obviously anything can happen.

It's likely it will get the new battery, but the bigger question is if they will attempt to equip it with an IBIS unit. The same thoughts apply to the X100V line.

Conclusion

The recent releases indicate that Fuji has finally sorted out its problematic segmentation of X-H and X-T lines, which I feel is long overdue and very welcome. Fuji seems to have put a lot of R&D into this new generation of cameras, which is a good sign about their commitment to the system and gives us a good idea on future releases. It also shows that they do indeed take notice of feedback given by its customers and react (at least partially) to it.

Thanks for reading this incredibly long post and congrats to those that made it trough.

P.S: I really hope this post doesn't come across as inflammatory. If so, then that wasn't my intention. Just hoping for a good debate on the matter and would love to hear your thoughts on some of the points I have addressed.

There is no way they aren’t rethinking the X-Pro3 screen. It’s been failing too often for them not to.  It will also certainly have IBIS.  It will be 2023 and Fuji is not Leica.  They cannot get away with it again.

John Gellings wrote:

There is no way they aren’t rethinking the X-Pro3 screen. It’s been failing too often for them not to. It will also certainly have IBIS. It will be 2023 and Fuji is not Leica. They cannot get away with it again.

Thanks for chiming in. I know you've got plenty of experience with the X-Pro. What do you think would be preferable? Something like a 2-way tilt screen?

yayatosorus wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

There is no way they aren’t rethinking the X-Pro3 screen. It’s been failing too often for them not to. It will also certainly have IBIS. It will be 2023 and Fuji is not Leica. They cannot get away with it again.

Thanks for chiming in. I know you've got plenty of experience with the X-Pro. What do you think would be preferable? Something like a 2-way tilt screen?

If they don’t go for something new, I can see the X100V screen being the choice.

yayatosorus wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

There is no way they aren’t rethinking the X-Pro3 screen. It’s been failing too often for them not to. It will also certainly have IBIS. It will be 2023 and Fuji is not Leica. They cannot get away with it again.

Thanks for chiming in. I know you've got plenty of experience with the X-Pro. What do you think would be preferable? Something like a 2-way tilt screen?

A thing I noticed that no 1 has picked up yet is the explicit call out of shutter button design change.  I know there was conflicting information about the failures or the button on xpro3.

rla1022 wrote:

yayatosorus wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

There is no way they aren’t rethinking the X-Pro3 screen. It’s been failing too often for them not to. It will also certainly have IBIS. It will be 2023 and Fuji is not Leica. They cannot get away with it again.

Thanks for chiming in. I know you've got plenty of experience with the X-Pro. What do you think would be preferable? Something like a 2-way tilt screen?

A thing I noticed that no 1 has picked up yet is the explicit call out of shutter button design change. I know there was conflicting information about the failures or the button on xpro3.

Hmmm, I have never heard about this on the X-Pro series.  That said, it certainly could be more robust.  A friend had his X100F shutter button fall apart though.

I'd expect IBIS but not 7 stops like the X-H2/S and X-T5 but a more miniaturized and more energy efficient version of the 5 stop system in the X-S10.

Just make 2 versions of the X-Pro4. One with the current XP3 style screen, and a normal rear LCD screen to cater to the complainers. Maybe make it user-configurable so the user can actually make the switch themselves.

Fujifilm X-Pro4 Suggested Improvements:

1) Add a function button to top rear near viewfinder (prefer a D-pad but this will do)

2) Larger capacity battery (enlarge grip area if required)

3) If feasible, reinstate the OVF slide-in magnifier

4) Consider adding a programmable (on/off) backlight to sub-monitor if this design is retained

5) Retain current size as feasible for above (except grip for battery)

6) IBIS is not necessary

7) Consider offering optional magnesium alloy top/bottom plates (fit and finish of titanium is not suitable to some)

8) ISO/Shutter dial works like X100V

9) A back display like the X100V, or if the Pro3 display is retained, a more robust ribbon cable design for the back display

10) Improved autofocus (faster and no hunting)

John Gellings wrote:

There is no way they aren’t rethinking the X-Pro3 screen. It’s been failing too often for them not to. It will also certainly have IBIS. It will be 2023 and Fuji is not Leica. They cannot get away with it again.

The issues with the screen cable is an engineering issue not a design issue.

As far has the OP.  The uniqueness of the XPro3 has nothing to do with the screen.  It is the only mirrorless ILC with an optical VF with the exception of course the Leica M.  That is the one feature that sets it apart from the rest of the top of the Fuji line.  Of course you pay for that OVF as the XPro3 was more expensive than the XT3, XT4 and is more expensive than the XT5.

I think the screen is the least of the design issues of the XPro4.  First is the battery.  They have to engineer a way to put the new batter which is significantly larger than the current XPro3 battery into the body without increasing size.  I was encouraged that Fuji could reduce the size and weight of the XT5 down to something comparable to the XT3 - smaller and lighter than the XT4.  I expect nothing less in a Pro4.  They also need to do that without adding a grotesque grip to the camera.

The second issue is IBIS.  There is not a lot of room in that camera. They are going to have to be clever to include IBIS.  In reality carving out an area for the display of the XT5 would suck up inside space and make the issue worse.  With a 40 MP sensor, Fuji will almost have to include IBIS in the Pro4.   Leica has commented that they had looked at IBIS in the M11but there was insufficient room.  The Q2 has IBIS - actually a very nice implementation of IBIS.  However, the Q2 is thicker than the M.  So Fuji will have its hands full keeping the Pro4 from growing when the XH2 is actually smaller than the XH1 and the XT5 smaller than the XT4 indicates they have heard the complaints that their cameras age getting too big.  Putting in IBIS will be a challenge.

My guess is the innards of the XT5 - sensor, processor, IBIS, SD cards, battery in a form factor that is no larger than the current XPro3.  As far as display - who knows.  Personally I don't care if didn't even have one.  I could live with no display and a good updated phone app.  What I can't live with is a display I cannot protect with the glass against the camera.

Most likely we are six months off before we hear anything.

Truman Prevatt wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

There is no way they aren’t rethinking the X-Pro3 screen. It’s been failing too often for them not to. It will also certainly have IBIS. It will be 2023 and Fuji is not Leica. They cannot get away with it again.

The issues with the screen cable is an engineering issue not a design issue.

As far has the OP. The uniqueness of the XPro3 has nothing to do with the screen. It is the only mirrorless ILC with an optical VF with the exception of course the Leica M. That is the one feature that sets it apart from the rest of the top of the Fuji line. Of course you pay for that OVF as the XPro3 was more expensive than the XT3, XT4 and is more expensive than the XT5.

I think the screen is the least of the design issues of the XPro4. First is the battery. They have to engineer a way to put the new batter which is significantly larger than the current XPro3 battery into the body without increasing size. I was encouraged that Fuji could reduce the size and weight of the XT5 down to something comparable to the XT3 - smaller and lighter than the XT4. I expect nothing less in a Pro4. They also need to do that without adding a grotesque grip to the camera.

The second issue is IBIS. There is not a lot of room in that camera. They are going to have to be clever to include IBIS. In reality carving out an area for the display of the XT5 would suck up inside space and make the issue worse. With a 40 MP sensor, Fuji will almost have to include IBIS in the Pro4. Leica has commented that they had looked at IBIS in the M11but there was insufficient room. The Q2 has IBIS - actually a very nice implementation of IBIS. However, the Q2 is thicker than the M. So Fuji will have its hands full keeping the Pro4 from growing when the XH2 is actually smaller than the XH1 and the XT5 smaller than the XT4 indicates they have heard the complaints that their cameras age getting too big. Putting in IBIS will be a challenge.

My guess is the innards of the XT5 - sensor, processor, IBIS, SD cards, battery in a form factor that is no larger than the current XPro3. As far as display - who knows. Personally I don't care if didn't even have one. I could live with no display and a good updated phone app. What I can't live with is a display I cannot protect with the glass against the camera.

Most likely we are six months off before we hear anything.

Very insightful, thanks for that. I agree that it will be quite a pickle for Fuji engineers to cram all that into the X-Pro body.

The X-Pro2 was released in January 2016 and the X-Pro3 in October 2019. It's reasonable to expect a new version between January and October 2023. It may come later though, if they run into issues with the tech implementation.

Photonics wrote:

Fujifilm could continue to experiment with the X Pro 4 - a true optical rangefinder mechanism, for example..

Oh would I love for Fujifilm to do that, but then they would have to make manual prime lenses.

Nice write up yayatosaurus,

Fujifilm has come out publicly stating the Xpro line is now the Luxury line. It is also the 10th Anniversary year of the Xpro and I think Fujifilm is going to come out with something truly special for the Xpro and X100 series.

I think they might come out with a monochrome Xpro, 40mp, with IBIS and the new battery.

rla1022 wrote:

yayatosorus wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

There is no way they aren’t rethinking the X-Pro3 screen. It’s been failing too often for them not to. It will also certainly have IBIS. It will be 2023 and Fuji is not Leica. They cannot get away with it again.

Thanks for chiming in. I know you've got plenty of experience with the X-Pro. What do you think would be preferable? Something like a 2-way tilt screen?

A thing I noticed that no 1 has picked up yet is the explicit call out of shutter button design change. I know there was conflicting information about the failures or the button on xpro3.

I almost forgot about this, but this is a very good point. That and the controversial rear screen both need to designed better in the next generation.

• Photonics wrote:

Fujifilm could continue to experiment with the X Pro 4 - a true optical rangefinder mechanism, for example..

They do not have any lenses that can be used with it though. The 3 Voigtlanders maybe can be though…

Pocket Lint wrote:

rla1022 wrote:

yayatosorus wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

There is no way they aren’t rethinking the X-Pro3 screen. It’s been failing too often for them not to. It will also certainly have IBIS. It will be 2023 and Fuji is not Leica. They cannot get away with it again.

Thanks for chiming in. I know you've got plenty of experience with the X-Pro. What do you think would be preferable? Something like a 2-way tilt screen?

A thing I noticed that no 1 has picked up yet is the explicit call out of shutter button design change. I know there was conflicting information about the failures or the button on xpro3.

I almost forgot about this, but this is a very good point. That and the controversial rear screen both need to designed better in the next generation.

Do you own an X-Pro3? What has been your experience with the shitter button and rear screen?

bowportes wrote:

Pocket Lint wrote:

rla1022 wrote:

yayatosorus wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

There is no way they aren’t rethinking the X-Pro3 screen. It’s been failing too often for them not to. It will also certainly have IBIS. It will be 2023 and Fuji is not Leica. They cannot get away with it again.

Thanks for chiming in. I know you've got plenty of experience with the X-Pro. What do you think would be preferable? Something like a 2-way tilt screen?

A thing I noticed that no 1 has picked up yet is the explicit call out of shutter button design change. I know there was conflicting information about the failures or the button on xpro3.

I almost forgot about this, but this is a very good point. That and the controversial rear screen both need to designed better in the next generation.

Do you own an X-Pro3? What has been your experience with the shitter button and rear screen?

I do own an Xpro3. I have had a very unusual experience with the Xpro3 since I first got it about 2 year ago.

1. Issue with frameline screen burn in. I don’t think this is a camera defect, but I found the camera was too easy to turn on while in a camera bag. Often times I would pull my camera out only to discover it was already on, possibly for hours, or overnight. This caused some slight screen burn in of the framelines temporarily. The issue self-resolved months later but it was a little discouraging.
2. The shutter release button felt a little sticky at times when I first got it. Sometimes I’d press down on the shutter release button and nothing would happen for a second or two, then suddenly it would fire off a few frames in rapid succession. This was very frustrating to the point I considered returning my Xpro3 multiple times. However I stuck with it and oddly enough, this too seemed to self-resolve. I’ve not had this occur since. 
3. Rear flip down screen, while I have not had any bad experience with this, others have, where the apparent issue is with the electronic ribbon failing rendering the rear screen inoperable. 
   

So, clearly Fujifilm needs to address some hardware issues with this camera and improve it to make it more robust and reliable, after all, they are marketing it as their premium luxury camera. I expect nothing less then refined perfection in this camera!

This would be Fujifilms equivalent to the Leica MP, in my opinion.

I have had my XPro3 for a little over two years. I like the design of the rear screen.. The rear screens of the other Fuji cameras are turned off. I have not had any issues with the rear screen but there have been reports of problems so something does need to be made more robust. That said, I do have the shutter release problem that it lost the half press for auto focus. In fact I just sent it in to Fuji for repair. This has been an often reported problem so this needs to be looked at with regards to the XPro4.  As i have said in previous threads, i do not have the confidence quite yet when it comes to the robustness of my Fujis that i have had with my Nikon cameras.  I would be happy with the 40mp sensor. IBIS would be icing on the cake bit not a deal breaker. I have never had or used IBIS during over 50 years of shooting thus far so it is not as if I would miss this kind of crutch.

bowportes wrote:

Pocket Lint wrote:

rla1022 wrote:

yayatosorus wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

There is no way they aren’t rethinking the X-Pro3 screen. It’s been failing too often for them not to. It will also certainly have IBIS. It will be 2023 and Fuji is not Leica. They cannot get away with it again.

Thanks for chiming in. I know you've got plenty of experience with the X-Pro. What do you think would be preferable? Something like a 2-way tilt screen?

A thing I noticed that no 1 has picked up yet is the explicit call out of shutter button design change. I know there was conflicting information about the failures or the button on xpro3.

I almost forgot about this, but this is a very good point. That and the controversial rear screen both need to designed better in the next generation.

Do you own an X-Pro3? What has been your experience with the shitter button and rear screen?

Mine had a weird slowness in the shutter