Seriously, Canon?

Saw the couple of rumor updates lately -

1. The M200 is discontinued, and the M50ii body only kit is discontinued too
2. The Canon R6ii and RF 135mm specs and pricing for release soon

https://www.canonrumors.com/usd-pricing-for-the-canon-eos-r6-mark-ii-and-canon-rf-135mm-f-1-8l-is-usm-has-leaked-ahead-of-the-imminent-announcement/

And all I can think is... Seriously, Canon?!?  I'm sure all that R gear is fantastic, but it's just so stupidly expensive.  They're not remotely close to replacing the M system with R.  Both the R6ii and RF 135mm, by themselves, are more expensive then my entire M kit - which includes some fabulous glass.

I've been toying around with the idea of getting a refurbished M6ii before they're gone, but then being stuck without an upgrade path has held me back.  That's probably just fine because this makes it pretty clear that R is going to stay way out of my price range.  The "cheap" R lenses I'd go for would be the 35mm and 85mm but those are still 2-3 times the cost of the M equivalents...  🤦🏼‍♂️

Unless Canon comes to its senses - brings the best M lenses to RF-S, and opens up to third party lenses - it's looking more and more like I'll just hang on to my M gear as long as I can and then will bail to another system when I really need some upgrade or something breaks down.

Feigerou wrote:

Saw the couple of rumor updates lately -

1. The M200 is discontinued, and the M50ii body only kit is discontinued too
2. The Canon R6ii and RF 135mm specs and pricing for release soon

https://www.canonrumors.com/usd-pricing-for-the-canon-eos-r6-mark-ii-and-canon-rf-135mm-f-1-8l-is-usm-has-leaked-ahead-of-the-imminent-announcement/

And all I can think is... Seriously, Canon?!? I'm sure all that R gear is fantastic, but it's just so stupidly expensive. They're not remotely close to replacing the M system with R. Both the R6ii and RF 135mm, by themselves, are more expensive then my entire M kit - which includes some fabulous glass.

I've been toying around with the idea of getting a refurbished M6ii before they're gone, but then being stuck without an upgrade path has held me back. That's probably just fine because this makes it pretty clear that R is going to stay way out of my price range. The "cheap" R lenses I'd go for would be the 35mm and 85mm but those are still 2-3 times the cost of the M equivalents... 🤦🏼‍♂️

Unless Canon comes to its senses - brings the best M lenses to RF-S, and opens up to third party lenses - it's looking more and more like I'll just hang on to my M gear as long as I can and then will bail to another system when I really need some upgrade or something breaks down.

Right now you can get a refurbished M6II from Canon USA for $549.

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/refurbished-eos-m6-mark-ii-body-silver

m100 wrote:

Right now you can get a refurbished M6II from Canon USA for $549.

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/refurbished-eos-m6-mark-ii-body-silver

Wow, that's a great deal!  I've been watching to see if this would go lower for Black Friday at all.  It's been at $680 for a long time.

Talking to 'the boss' now....  

Feigerou wrote:

Saw the couple of rumor updates lately -

1. The M200 is discontinued, and the M50ii body only kit is discontinued too
2. The Canon R6ii and RF 135mm specs and pricing for release soon

https://www.canonrumors.com/usd-pricing-for-the-canon-eos-r6-mark-ii-and-canon-rf-135mm-f-1-8l-is-usm-has-leaked-ahead-of-the-imminent-announcement/

And all I can think is... Seriously, Canon?!? I'm sure all that R gear is fantastic, but it's just so stupidly expensive. They're not remotely close to replacing the M system with R. Both the R6ii and RF 135mm, by themselves, are more expensive then my entire M kit - which includes some fabulous glass.

I've been toying around with the idea of getting a refurbished M6ii before they're gone, but then being stuck without an upgrade path has held me back. That's probably just fine because this makes it pretty clear that R is going to stay way out of my price range. The "cheap" R lenses I'd go for would be the 35mm and 85mm but those are still 2-3 times the cost of the M equivalents... 🤦🏼‍♂️

Unless Canon comes to its senses - brings the best M lenses to RF-S, and opens up to third party lenses - it's looking more and more like I'll just hang on to my M gear as long as I can and then will bail to another system when I really need some upgrade or something breaks down.

Completely agree.

I’ve invested in M because it fit my budget and size requirements.  It works very well for me - beyond my photographic abilities, in fact - so I decided a few months back that I will *never* adopt and reinvest in another ILC system.

I recently, and with some trepidation, added the much-praised Canon 32mm lens to my bag of M gear, but that’s the very last thing I buy unless Canon shows more interest in this system.

Given the rapid advances in technology of the cameras in smartphones, e.g. iPhone 14 Pro, I think that Canon has given up on the M market and will continue to focus on R for high-end photographers for whom a smartphone is not (yet) an option.

m100 wrote:

Feigerou wrote:

Saw the couple of rumor updates lately -

1. The M200 is discontinued, and the M50ii body only kit is discontinued too
2. The Canon R6ii and RF 135mm specs and pricing for release soon

https://www.canonrumors.com/usd-pricing-for-the-canon-eos-r6-mark-ii-and-canon-rf-135mm-f-1-8l-is-usm-has-leaked-ahead-of-the-imminent-announcement/

And all I can think is... Seriously, Canon?!? I'm sure all that R gear is fantastic, but it's just so stupidly expensive. They're not remotely close to replacing the M system with R. Both the R6ii and RF 135mm, by themselves, are more expensive then my entire M kit - which includes some fabulous glass.

I've been toying around with the idea of getting a refurbished M6ii before they're gone, but then being stuck without an upgrade path has held me back. That's probably just fine because this makes it pretty clear that R is going to stay way out of my price range. The "cheap" R lenses I'd go for would be the 35mm and 85mm but those are still 2-3 times the cost of the M equivalents... 🤦🏼‍♂️

Unless Canon comes to its senses - brings the best M lenses to RF-S, and opens up to third party lenses - it's looking more and more like I'll just hang on to my M gear as long as I can and then will bail to another system when I really need some upgrade or something breaks down.

Right now you can get a refurbished M6II from Canon USA for $549.

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/refurbished-eos-m6-mark-ii-body-silver

Ordered the silver to go with the black that I recently bought on sale.  With all of my M lenses it’s probably the best travel kit I’ve ever owned.

Sad reality of the times.

There's still plenty of inventory in the channel of all models, including the M6 II for now. I gather due to the age of the M50 Mark II and M200, and given the launch of the RF-S platform / models / lenses, there is less demand for the M50 II and M200 these days. It may be that what's in the channel, can hold the M ship for some time.

.

Regarding future prospects, it's a good time to enjoy the M if you're asking. I would say never be a first adopter, but there's times to be a first adopter, and times not. Unless you're a birder? I'm gonna say for most people M is a more logical choice (over the R10/R7). Now that may change here given some time, new models, more RF-S glass. Then again, it may not. Canon may opt for a more minimal RF-S footprint, instead guiding folks to FF. I don't think that's the case, but, again, the M50 II's, M200's and M6 II's still in the channel, are "entry level" which Canon hinted at in their latest financials. That said, I think it'll change. At some point Canon will do an R100, R60, etc. Again, anytime soon? Heh, part shortages and backlogs aside, not likely due to contracting market alone. Again, if what you have makes you happy? Be happy.

Oh, there is a rumor about an R100 coming soon. I doubt it'll sport an M6 II / R7 / 90D sensor, though.

I have to agree with Canon from a business perspective btw. Now as a consumer? I have to agree with your sentiment here. It stinks.

I will never buy a heavy and bulky R camera. For me the m system is perfect. In my opinion, if Canon made an eos m50 mark III or an eos m6 mark III it would sell a lot more. The m system is what many amateurs want. The m system is light, robust and inexpensive. But Canon doesn't seem to understand this, and it's making a big mistake. Many M owners will not buy R but will turn to Fujii, Sony or Olympus.

Daniele200 wrote:

I will never buy a heavy and bulky R camera. For me the m system is perfect. In my opinion, if Canon made an eos m50 mark III or an eos m6 mark III it would sell a lot more. The m system is what many amateurs want. The m system is light, robust and inexpensive. But Canon doesn't seem to understand this, and it's making a big mistake. Many M owners will not buy R but will turn to Fujii, Sony or Olympus.

It is possible an M50 Mark III could emerge with R10-like specs... 6-12 months from now. Canon always does higher end models first, waits for market saturation, then passes things "down".

It's also possible the M is now off life support and will sunset. I think this likely since Canon can always discount the R10 in 6-12 months from now and I don't see an indicator that in 6-12 months from now, somehow the M will rebound. To your point, unless they release more RF-S glass to go with it? The M system may be unique in performance to size ratio. Now Canon can cut prices to make it not so unique from a price point though. Canon's known for price skimming; the R10 may even drop significantly for holiday demand. I predicted this with the RP, and was dead on; it fell sub-1k on Black Friday, now granted it had been out since Q1 the same year though which Canon usually goes 2Q before price drops so the R10/R7 may hold their MSRP through Black Friday this year. I think we could see the R10 drop to M-prices next year though.

Sony is neglecting their crop; I find this unlikely. The FX30 doesn't count. A6400 is their only real player.

Fuji is a legitimate player, but, now you're at R price and size.

That leaves Oly, which is 4/3, the apex of equivalence discussion and why it matters. F/2.8 isn't F/2.8 anymore...

Even with the introduction of the new crop R cameras, IMHO the M System still holds a ton of appeal as the smallest, lightest, most affordable range of cameras out there (esp when you consider how darn capable it is).  Even though I now own R equipment also, the M System remains my favorite for grab and go - by far!  It’s just so darn fun and rewarding to shoot!  Always has been.

This is what I think Canon has had in mind as of late…

Canon took a pretty wide aim when they introduced the R System (R and RP) - aimed right smack at amateurs and advanced amateurs.  Even a few adventurous pros.

Then with the R5 and R6 they went heavy after the pros, real heavy.  And picked up a lot of enthusiasts too.  Plus converts from other systems who saw how darn good the Canon Eye AF could be.

With the R3 it was the pro sports shooters in the crosshairs, and any others who could afford this killer action camera.

Then the remaining “7D DSLR” holdouts with the R7.  Toss in a bunch more on-the-fence enthusiasts too.

With the R10 Canon really wanted to scoop up the “Rebel” type of users, and any other beginners out there.  Get them to start right in to buying Canon products.  

And we can see that the lens introductions have mirrored these aims as well, step for step.

Who’s last on the list?  HeHe, you’re looking at them!      

Will the R100 be the final blow?  A travel camera extraordinaire?  A grab-and-go camera that won’t weigh you down?  Will it out-perform the M’s?  Be as fun as the M’s?  Will there be enough tiny lenses to support RF-S enthusiasts?  How long will it all take?

Or is the M System still “just right” for what you want it to do?

Me?  I’m still definitely, most definitely, in this camp.

For now at least, HeHe  

Happy shooting to you all!

R2

There is one problem I have with this analysis, where do people buy cameras:

1. specialist stores
2. online
3. best buys of the world

just for the sake of entertainment I went to 3 different "best buys" in 3 different countries and they had in common:

1. almost zero visibility of any EOS R model
2. demo models of Powershot G7 mk II, M200 and M50 mk II
3. Sony RX100 demo model

It is kind of not surprising that cameras which are not for sale are not selling in great quantities, it is actually more surprising that canon is discontinuing the only models, which are actually generally available everywhere.

Feigerou wrote:

Saw the couple of rumor updates lately -

1. The M200 is discontinued, and the M50ii body only kit is discontinued too
2. The Canon R6ii and RF 135mm specs and pricing for release soon

https://www.canonrumors.com/usd-pricing-for-the-canon-eos-r6-mark-ii-and-canon-rf-135mm-f-1-8l-is-usm-has-leaked-ahead-of-the-imminent-announcement/

And all I can think is... Seriously, Canon?!? I'm sure all that R gear is fantastic, but it's just so stupidly expensive. They're not remotely close to replacing the M system with R. Both the R6ii and RF 135mm, by themselves, are more expensive then my entire M kit - which includes some fabulous glass.

I've been toying around with the idea of getting a refurbished M6ii before they're gone, but then being stuck without an upgrade path has held me back. That's probably just fine because this makes it pretty clear that R is going to stay way out of my price range. The "cheap" R lenses I'd go for would be the 35mm and 85mm but those are still 2-3 times the cost of the M equivalents... 🤦🏼‍♂️

Unless Canon comes to its senses - brings the best M lenses to RF-S, and opens up to third party lenses - it's looking more and more like I'll just hang on to my M gear as long as I can and then will bail to another system when I really need some upgrade or something breaks down.

Most of your post resonates pretty strongly with many on this forum, including me. I'm very committed to M partly due to R pricing.

The discontinuation of the M200 is a strong hint that Canon may be close to releasing its rumored R replacement, the R100. If Canon has much sense they should keep it around the M200 price point, not the higher rumored prices.

Also it would really make sense for them to release something like an RF-S 22mm f2 or 11-22mm to keep people from 'brand' defecting...

brent1395 wrote:

Unfortunately it looks like what we feared is happening, Canon has killed off the M mount.

It looks like there is a widening disconnect between these forums and reality, that is kind the thing that worries me the most.

It is very possible that EF-M is at the end of the road but the entire lineup getting axed without replacement 8 weeks before christmas, yeah, right, I find that soo likely,

Canon seems to think they have replaced it with the RF-S systems they have come out with. But really, as it stands, the RF system can't hold a candle to the M mount. All the lenses for RF are either too big/heavy, too slow, or too expensive, or usually, all of the above. The lens lineup for RF sucks.

The pretty popular 15-45 and 55-200 dual kit isn't even available in RF-S.

I can't believe that with where photography is these days, Canon released a couple slow zooms with the R7 and R10. I wasted years trying to take great pictures with slow zooms on APS-C. The truth is, the iPhone beats the crap out of an APS-C with a slow zoom lens in most situations.

Eh, no, iPhone is also pretty expensive in most of the world.

APS-C needs fast lenses, like F1.4 or faster for portraits or anything indoors. So what options do we have in RF that are 1.4 or faster? The options are $2099, $2599, and $2899. Unbelievable.

True.

With Canon suing anyone making AF RF lenses, Sigma and Tamron are not coming to the rescue.

Making these news all the more unbelievable.

The R7 has some video improvements that are very compelling to me. But with the lenses available, it would be a giant step down for me photography-wise. A lot more money, worse picture quality, and a much bigger and heavier kit.

Unless Canon comes out with another M mount body or an EF-M to RF adapter--both of which look unlikely--it looks like I'm at a dead end. After two decades, I'm starting to game plan my exit from Canon. We could say that I'm leaving Canon, but the truth is that Canon has left me. They obviously don't care about customers like me anymore.

Larry Rexley wrote:

Feigerou wrote:

Saw the couple of rumor updates lately -

1. The M200 is discontinued, and the M50ii body only kit is discontinued too
2. The Canon R6ii and RF 135mm specs and pricing for release soon

https://www.canonrumors.com/usd-pricing-for-the-canon-eos-r6-mark-ii-and-canon-rf-135mm-f-1-8l-is-usm-has-leaked-ahead-of-the-imminent-announcement/

And all I can think is... Seriously, Canon?!? I'm sure all that R gear is fantastic, but it's just so stupidly expensive. They're not remotely close to replacing the M system with R. Both the R6ii and RF 135mm, by themselves, are more expensive then my entire M kit - which includes some fabulous glass.

I've been toying around with the idea of getting a refurbished M6ii before they're gone, but then being stuck without an upgrade path has held me back. That's probably just fine because this makes it pretty clear that R is going to stay way out of my price range. The "cheap" R lenses I'd go for would be the 35mm and 85mm but those are still 2-3 times the cost of the M equivalents... 🤦🏼‍♂️

Unless Canon comes to its senses - brings the best M lenses to RF-S, and opens up to third party lenses - it's looking more and more like I'll just hang on to my M gear as long as I can and then will bail to another system when I really need some upgrade or something breaks down.

Most of your post resonates pretty strongly with many on this forum, including me. I'm very committed to M partly due to R pricing.

The discontinuation of the M200 is a strong hint that Canon may be close to releasing its rumored R replacement, the R100. If Canon has much sense they should keep it around the M200 price point, not the higher rumored prices.

Also it would really make sense for them to release something like an RF-S 22mm f2 or 11-22mm to keep people from 'brand' defecting...

That is also my feeling.

It means 2019 model is not in production anymore hopefully there will be some new model for m50 , m6 , m200 series. I mean most people will be okay even with just processor upgrade and AF / video codec / image quality - although IBIS and sensor door will be welcome if included.

nnowak wrote:

tvcat wrote:

It is rumor, why so serious?

Because it is not just a rumor.

Take your gears and go out for some nice photo taking. The world is beautiful.

The M6 II discontinuation basically went through three stages. First, there were multiple rumors the camera was being discontinued. Second, the M6 II was listed as discontinued on the Canon Japan Online Store. Finally, the M6 II was officially listed as discontinued on the Canon Global website. Only a few weeks separated each of the three stages.

The M200 is currently on stage 2 with all options listed as discontinued on the Canon Japan Online Store. For the M50 II, body only and 15-45mm kits are both listed as discontinued on the Canon Japan Online Store. The only M system option not listed as discontinued and currently available for purchase are the dual lens M50 II kits with the 15-45mm and 55-200mm.

Here in Germany it is no problem to get the M50 II (body only or kit), the M200 (kit) or the M6 II (body only or kit). For my question to Canon Germany, if the M6 II is discontinued, I got the following answer:

"We have no information indicating, that the production of this camera has been terminated. Current status it is offered furthermore."