XH2S - BIF

So - trying to get the most out of my testing. I only have the Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 - so I know its not the best for wildlife - but I'm fairly happy with results... but always want to do better. All these are straight out of camera. I know I should shoot RAW but for now just learning the settings.

So I've been trying to use the BIF settings from Morris0 he posted here https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1772910/0  BUT I find that when I;m in zone mode it will look locked on in the viewfinder, but when I look on the computer many are soft. For me (so far in limited testing) it seems like single point gives better results.

In general should I stop down to 5.6 and use a bit more ISO?

Osprey pestered by crow

first 7-10 images are soft but I think it is finally in here?

too busy / congested, but the the colors are some of my favorite of any pic I've taken.

Do you realize you are trying birding with a standard 17-70 lens?

You need a longer reach lens, quite obviously, reaching at least 400mm.

With you wide lens, the camera can not realiably focus on what appears as a tiny element in the entire scene.

Come on!

Younes B wrote:

Do you realize you are trying birding with a standard 17-70 lens?

You need a longer reach lens, quite obviously, reaching at least 400mm.

With you wide lens, the camera can not realiably focus on what appears as a tiny element in the entire scene.

Come on!

Clearly a newby that's excited about a new hobby and experimenting with what they have and you're acting like they should buy 400mm lens before even thinking about pointing their camera at a bird and asking questions. Doesn't help anyone, especially someone who just joined the forum.

That aside. If your finding soft images try bumping up the shutter speed. I find it always has to be a bit higher than I would like. It's also all situational. Fast birds like king fishers will require 3200, 4000 or higher. Pelicans as low as 1000. If a bird is perched I'll shoot high and slow down as much as possible as I keep shooting to lower that iso as far as possible while keeping the bird sharp.  There are many techniques to read up on and what youre experiencing is indeed what makes BIF photography so difficult.

Doc

I'd agree that to increase your consistency a higher shutter speed would be a good plan. I'd start at 1/1600 as a minimum. As you become more experienced you will begin to understand which sort of species and their movement can be photographed with slower shutter speeds.

As you're using a wide angle / mid-range zoom, to judge sharpness requires quite a magnification on your subject and as they're small in the frame, I think this is exacerbating any minor focus and shutter speed errors too.

If you're using the bird tracking on the X-H2S, don't get caught up in worrying about selecting zone / single point / wide tracking etc. These are tools for selecting where you want to focus. With subject detection on, your camera's AI is finding the subject and focusing on that are.

I've got a blog on photograping birds in flight, it's centred around the Fujifilm system but I am currently updating it for the X-H2S / subject tracking etc so while it is a little out of date, it is still relevant:

Alan Hewitt, Birds in flight

Lastly, keep at it and enjoy. Birds in flight are a very difficult subject with and without subject detection and it requires developing technique for smooth panning. Try not to be put off, you'll get there in the end. Save some money and invest in a telephoto too! That's when you'll see your results shiiiine!

Just one little thing to consider - though I don't know how true it is now with the latest cameras - but leaving IBIS on with high shutter speeds can result in a softness to the image. Anything over 1/250, you're probably best off making sure IBIS is off, as a general rule of thumb, in my experience. (Though depending on the focal length you might want to ignore that too!).

icharry wrote:

So - trying to get the most out of my testing. I only have the Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 - so I know its not the best for wildlife - but I'm fairly happy with results... but always want to do better. All these are straight out of camera. I know I should shoot RAW but for now just learning the settings.

So I've been trying to use the BIF settings from Morris0 he posted here https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1772910/0 BUT I find that when I;m in zone mode it will look locked on in the viewfinder, but when I look on the computer many are soft. For me (so far in limited testing) it seems like single point gives better results.

In general should I stop down to 5.6 and use a bit more ISO?

Osprey pestered by crow

The camera has done a pretty good job of getting the osprey into focus. Its going to be a challenge when you have a short focus length and the subject is a long way away. I tend to have more success with focus priority than focus release but the other focus settings look OK.

Subject detection finding bird head and body - the red target is the reported focus point

DocShaka wrote:

Younes B wrote:

Do you realize you are trying birding with a standard 17-70 lens?

You need a longer reach lens, quite obviously, reaching at least 400mm.

With you wide lens, the camera can not realiably focus on what appears as a tiny element in the entire scene.

Come on!

Clearly a newby that's excited about a new hobby and experimenting with what they have and you're acting like they should buy 400mm lens before even thinking about pointing their camera at a bird and asking questions. Doesn't help anyone, especially someone who just joined the forum.

That aside. If your finding soft images try bumping up the shutter speed. I find it always has to be a bit higher than I would like. It's also all situational. Fast birds like king fishers will require 3200, 4000 or higher. Pelicans as low as 1000. If a bird is perched I'll shoot high and slow down as much as possible as I keep shooting to lower that iso as far as possible while keeping the bird sharp. There are many techniques to read up on and what youre experiencing is indeed what makes BIF photography so difficult.

Doc

Possibly, we need to see samples to understand the issue

Morris

Lukus wrote:

Just one little thing to consider - though I don't know how true it is now with the latest cameras - but leaving IBIS on with high shutter speeds can result in a softness to the image. Anything over 1/250, you're probably best off making sure IBIS is off, as a general rule of thumb, in my experience. (Though depending on the focal length you might want to ignore that too!).

In general, stabilization helps provide a stabilized view finder, even at higher shutter speeds.  Some people even get motion sick with out stabilization using a longer lens which we don't have in this case.  I've not seen an issue with stabilization and high shutter speeds.  Not for optical stabilization and not for in body stabilization.  These issues were addressed long ago.

Morris

Greybeard2017 wrote:

icharry wrote:

So - trying to get the most out of my testing. I only have the Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 - so I know its not the best for wildlife - but I'm fairly happy with results... but always want to do better. All these are straight out of camera. I know I should shoot RAW but for now just learning the settings.

So I've been trying to use the BIF settings from Morris0 he posted here https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1772910/0 BUT I find that when I;m in zone mode it will look locked on in the viewfinder, but when I look on the computer many are soft. For me (so far in limited testing) it seems like single point gives better results.

In general should I stop down to 5.6 and use a bit more ISO?

Osprey pestered by crow

The camera has done a pretty good job of getting the osprey into focus. Its going to be a challenge when you have a short focus length and the subject is a long way away. I tend to have more success with focus priority than focus release but the other focus settings look OK.

Subject detection finding bird head and body - the red target is the reported focus point

The X-H2s dose a great job with tracking.  I recommended focus priority for the X-T3 and 4.  I recommend release priority for the X-H2s.

Morris

Alan Hewitt Photo wrote:

I'd agree that to increase your consistency a higher shutter speed would be a good plan. I'd start at 1/1600 as a minimum. As you become more experienced you will begin to understand which sort of species and their movement can be photographed with slower shutter speeds.

As you're using a wide angle / mid-range zoom, to judge sharpness requires quite a magnification on your subject and as they're small in the frame, I think this is exacerbating any minor focus and shutter speed errors too.

If you're using the bird tracking on the X-H2S, don't get caught up in worrying about selecting zone / single point / wide tracking etc. These are tools for selecting where you want to focus. With subject detection on, your camera's AI is finding the subject and focusing on that are.

I've got a blog on photograping birds in flight, it's centred around the Fujifilm system but I am currently updating it for the X-H2S / subject tracking etc so while it is a little out of date, it is still relevant:

Alan Hewitt, Birds in flight

Lastly, keep at it and enjoy. Birds in flight are a very difficult subject with and without subject detection and it requires developing technique for smooth panning. Try not to be put off, you'll get there in the end. Save some money and invest in a telephoto too! That's when you'll see your results shiiiine!

I agree with Alan.  Your biggest issue is that you need a lot more practice.  Changing focus settings will simply confuse you.  Chose a method that lets you get sharp enough for the subject tracking to take over.  I favor zone and I feel that single point will be very difficult unless you have made a huge point, in which case you are actually using zone with out the advantage of the AF-C custom settings that help the camera focus.

That short lens is going to cause you to get too close to your subjects and scare them so they will fly off adding to your frustration.  Save for something longer and consider used from a reliable vendor to reduce the cost.

Morris

Morris0 wrote:

Lukus wrote:

Just one little thing to consider - though I don't know how true it is now with the latest cameras - but leaving IBIS on with high shutter speeds can result in a softness to the image. Anything over 1/250, you're probably best off making sure IBIS is off, as a general rule of thumb, in my experience. (Though depending on the focal length you might want to ignore that too!).

In general, stabilization helps provide a stabilized view finder, even at higher shutter speeds. Some people even get motion sick with out stabilization using a longer lens which we don't have in this case. I've not seen an issue with stabilization and high shutter speeds. Not for optical stabilization and not for in body stabilization. These issues were addressed long ago.

Morris

Actually you need to turn off IBIS ( in body ) when you are panning - say following a bird- while shooting. Otherwise, the camera initiates IBIS to compensate for the movement and that results in lost sharpness in the final image.

Lens stabilization is another story and many tele lenses have a dedicated button on the barrel you use to specify you are panning. Otherwise, the stabilization may work against you....

Younes B wrote:

Morris0 wrote:

Lukus wrote:

Just one little thing to consider - though I don't know how true it is now with the latest cameras - but leaving IBIS on with high shutter speeds can result in a softness to the image. Anything over 1/250, you're probably best off making sure IBIS is off, as a general rule of thumb, in my experience. (Though depending on the focal length you might want to ignore that too!).

In general, stabilization helps provide a stabilized view finder, even at higher shutter speeds. Some people even get motion sick with out stabilization using a longer lens which we don't have in this case. I've not seen an issue with stabilization and high shutter speeds. Not for optical stabilization and not for in body stabilization. These issues were addressed long ago.

Morris

Actually you need to turn off IBIS ( in body ) when you are panning - say following a bird- while shooting. Otherwise, the camera initiates IBIS to compensate for the movement and that results in lost sharpness in the final image.

Lens stabilization is another story and many tele lenses have a dedicated button on the barrel you use to specify you are panning. Otherwise, the stabilization may work against you....

So you are saying that Fuji cameras lack pan detection, a feature that everyone else had had for a long time.

Morris

Morris0 wrote:

Younes B wrote:

Morris0 wrote:

Lukus wrote:

Just one little thing to consider - though I don't know how true it is now with the latest cameras - but leaving IBIS on with high shutter speeds can result in a softness to the image. Anything over 1/250, you're probably best off making sure IBIS is off, as a general rule of thumb, in my experience. (Though depending on the focal length you might want to ignore that too!).

In general, stabilization helps provide a stabilized view finder, even at higher shutter speeds. Some people even get motion sick with out stabilization using a longer lens which we don't have in this case. I've not seen an issue with stabilization and high shutter speeds. Not for optical stabilization and not for in body stabilization. These issues were addressed long ago.

Morris

Actually you need to turn off IBIS ( in body ) when you are panning - say following a bird- while shooting. Otherwise, the camera initiates IBIS to compensate for the movement and that results in lost sharpness in the final image.

Lens stabilization is another story and many tele lenses have a dedicated button on the barrel you use to specify you are panning. Otherwise, the stabilization may work against you....

So you are saying that Fuji cameras lack pan detection, a feature that everyone else had had for a long time.

Morris

I don’t own a Fuji ( yet) and if Fuji cameras do indeed detect panning and turn off IBIS automatically then great!

This has to be done manually on many cameras including my Pentax. ( and previous Nikon)

Cheers

I’ve never turned lens or body stabilisation off when I’ve been photographing stationary or panning with moving subjects be it handheld, monopod or tripod and regardless of shutter speed.

Morris0 wrote:

Lukus wrote:

Just one little thing to consider - though I don't know how true it is now with the latest cameras - but leaving IBIS on with high shutter speeds can result in a softness to the image. Anything over 1/250, you're probably best off making sure IBIS is off, as a general rule of thumb, in my experience. (Though depending on the focal length you might want to ignore that too!).

In general, stabilization helps provide a stabilized view finder, even at higher shutter speeds. Some people even get motion sick with out stabilization using a longer lens which we don't have in this case. I've not seen an issue with stabilization and high shutter speeds. Not for optical stabilization and not for in body stabilization. These issues were addressed long ago.

Morris

Not in my experience/to my eye... But that could easily be confirmation bias.