Squeezing out a bit more from the old M5

Hey everyone,

long time lurker here, but it's also thanks to this forum that I bought a used M5 in 2020 and the amazing 32mm in 2021.  It's obviously an old-ish M running on the Digic 7 processor and I was wondering if anyone can share their thoughts on getting just a tiny bit more AF performance from it.

My 32mm is the only lens I use with it despite having the 15-45mm and the EF adapter.  I usually use the face tracking AF mode and let the camera take care of the rest but I was wondering if there would be an improvement if I used zone AF and tracked my subject in that mode in addition to moving the camera around rather than letting the camera track my subject's face all over the frame (like a kid moving around).  In other words, will using zone AF while moving the camera around free up some processor power so the camera will have to perform less operations?  Also, although I'm shooting in M, I leave it on auto ISO with +EC dialed in.  Would manually setting the ISO also lessen the load on the processor to let it focus more on doing AF work?

a bit off topic: but how's the sigma 16mm AF on the M5?  I know it works well on the M50/II and M6II but how is it on an old body like the M5?  I'm torn between getting a used 24-105L for my 6D2 but I really want the 1.4 even if it's on a crop.  the going rate for a used 16/1.4 and 24-105L is about the same in my country so that's why I'm debating between the two.

sorry for the long post...but I'm really enjoying reading in this forum and I am learning a lot.  thank you!

"Long time lurker" I can relate!

I have the M5 and the Sigma 16mm, and can say that the autofocus accuracy is typically very good on it. However one of the 16mm's use cases - low light - falls into the 'Bermuda triangle' of the M5's AF system. My M5 often gets frustratingly slow in low light, and I am generally using spot AF and not even the more processor-intensive face / subject tracking. The Sigma is no different, but that's more about the camera and less about the lens. So I would NOT expect the Sigma to help the M5 suddenly perform better in this area. I tried turning off the "Exposure Simulation" setting and this did help performance, but the fluctuating brightness of the EVF as I looked around a scene messed with me too much so I just settled for the performance issues. The cure for that seems to be an M50ii or M6ii.

M5 performance and AF issues aside - The 16mm is an incredible lens and is very sharp. It's let me get some inside family event shots that none of my other lenses could achieve. I can say for sure the Sigma will get you something unique and wonderful, whereas the 24-105mm may be a great lens but it's much less unique. If I were you, I would really consider what gaps in your gear's capabilities you're trying to fill with these lenses, and which gap is more important / more common for you to address.

deanmejos wrote:

Hey everyone,

long time lurker here, but it's also thanks to this forum that I bought a used M5 in 2020 and the amazing 32mm in 2021. It's obviously an old-ish M running on the Digic 7 processor and I was wondering if anyone can share their thoughts on getting just a tiny bit more AF performance from it.

My 32mm is the only lens I use with it despite having the 15-45mm and the EF adapter. I usually use the face tracking AF mode and let the camera take care of the rest but I was wondering if there would be an improvement if I used zone AF and tracked my subject in that mode in addition to moving the camera around rather than letting the camera track my subject's face all over the frame (like a kid moving around). In other words, will using zone AF while moving the camera around free up some processor power so the camera will have to perform less operations? Also, although I'm shooting in M, I leave it on auto ISO with +EC dialed in. Would manually setting the ISO also lessen the load on the processor to let it focus more on doing AF work?

I am not sure (I have no idea so I am not disagreeing with you) that the less-than-perfect AF on the M5 is due to a lack of processor power - it might be, but I suspect it is just an earlier iteration of mirrorless AF. The earlier versions (like M3) were significantly worse - when the M5 (and later M6) was launched many people raved about the improved AF.

I generally keep it simple with my M5 - single point AF (small box), no face tracking, usually Av, manual ISO, and only EC if required. It is generally not bad at all except for long lenses (EF 100-400L ii) and low light. I usually use it with 11-22mm or 18-150mm.

a bit off topic: but how's the sigma 16mm AF on the M5? I know it works well on the M50/II and M6II but how is it on an old body like the M5? I'm torn between getting a used 24-105L for my 6D2 but I really want the 1.4 even if it's on a crop. the going rate for a used 16/1.4 and 24-105L is about the same in my country so that's why I'm debating between the two.

I also have a 6D ii, and I have a EF 24-105L ii. The 24-105L is a very useful lens  on the 6D ii but it is a beast on the M5 - completely dwarfs it - the lens + adapter weighs a lot more than the body. The 180-150mm is a FAR better option for a walk-around lens on the M5 - obviously not quite the speed or IQ of the L lens, but a better match ergonomically.

A couple of things to check for if buying a used original EF 24-105L are;

• Is it a very early model - they were prone to ribbon failures.
• How is the zoom creep ? They were prone to getting pretty "loose" and the lens would drop to full extension if it was hanging while walking around.

I sold my original after buying the Mk ii a few years ago. The Mk ii has marginally better IQ, marginally faster AF, better IS, less prone to flare, a better hood, and a zoom creep locking switch, but it is also a bit larger & heavier, and certainly more costly.

sorry for the long post...but I'm really enjoying reading in this forum and I am learning a lot. thank you!

Good info from the other posters.

The first thing I’d suggest is to improve the lighting indoors, if possible.  Rooms brightly lit with sunlight and/or 5000K “Natural Daylight” bulbs will do wonders for both the IQ and your autofocus.

Disabling Exposure Simulation will improve AF performance (but you do lose a good tool).  Use the smallest AF point (never Auto, or All, or Zone). In the toughest situations (generally low light and/or low contrast), switch to “One Shot” AF if at all possible.  It is the most sensitive AF mode.  Practice in a darkened room, you’ll quickly get a feel for what the different settings do, and what objects/patterns make good AF targets.

Select your AF targets carefully (lots of vertical contrast).  Know your depth of field, and then you can focus (on a better nearby AF target) and recompose.  Lock focus when you can (with Back Button Focus this is easy), and shoot until your subject moves out of the depth of field, that way the focus doesn’t have to re-acquire for every shot.  Follow-up shots are VERY fast this way.

While your AF is locked, notice if your subject moves, and move your camera a commensurate amount to and fro (keeping your subject in focus by moving the camera).  I’m often leaning forwards and backwards with the subject (while the focus is locked), until I feel I need to re-focus.  Chimping helps.  Shoot lots.  Shoot bursts.

This “lean” technique also works great with partially obscured subjects, like a bird behind branches (where the camera is focusing on the closer branches).  Let the camera focus on the branches (then lock focus), and then just move your camera toward the bird the same distance that it was front focusing.  Voila!

Use this same technique for eyeglass wearers (that 1/2 inch can make a BIG difference).

If your subject is not moving, but you want to catch them in action (a person, or say a bird taking off), if you have enough DOF just lock focus, and when they do take off don’t refocus for the first couple of frames (just track and shoot with no focusing).  You’ll catch a LOT more in-focus action shots of take-offs without that AF delay (and focusing might have been a fail anyway).  Right after takeoff (and after your first couple of shots), re-acquire focus immediately, and track and shoot.

Focusing with the M5 can certainly be a challenge at times (can you tell I shot with one for a couple of years?   ), but using the most effective settings and maximizing technique can help a lot.  Short of upgrading to an M6ii that is.  

As far as the Sigma 16 is concerned, it is extremely capable.  If you’re shooting events or small groups (esp in low light), it is Awesome.  Large(ish), but Awesome.

I hope this helps you squeeze the most out of your M5.  Happy shooting!

Fun with the M5 and 15-45 Kit Lens.  

R2

thanks for the replies. I didn't really get to read about the AF woes of the M5 but I did experience them myself so I was thinking if there was any way to "help" it even if just a tiny bit.  I agree that it's more of the body than the lens that's the limiting factor here.  I suppose I can treat it the same way I did the original Fuji X100 since I'm practically keeping the 32mm glued to it.

As for the Sigma 16mm, I'm really intrigued by it.  I don't do action/sports photography and if I did, the M5 is certainly not the one I'd grab for it.  I was just wondering if the sigma 16mm focuses as fast (if not slower or faster) than the 32mm?

Unfortunately in our country, there aren't really retail stores that sell used items like they do in other countries.  There are only individual sellers and I'd have to schedule a meet up with each one if I wanted to try out different options of the 24-105mm.  Everybody claims to have a clean, good and sharp copy without really having any basis for comparison.

So far, my kit is composed of:

Canon M5, 15-45mm, 32mm f/1.4, adapted 50mm 1.8 STM
Canon 6D2, 35mm f/2 IS USM, 100mm f/2.8L IS USM

so at the moment, it's only the wide end that's lacking because the 15-45mm is just too slow and unreliable for me (most likely due to the M5, but I can live with the M5+32mm).  the sigma 16mm on the M5 or the 24-105L on the 6D2 will take care of the wide end for me.  Of course, the 24-105L is more practical in the sense that I can use it as one-lens solution on the 6D2 and leave the primes at home...but I do love my prime lenses.

thank you so much for the tips! i'll give them a try and hopefully get used to them too

Consider to shop for a used M50II or a new one during Black Friday for body AF improvements? Or the same for 32MP M6II?

Maxmolly7 wrote:

Consider to shop for a used M50II or a new one during Black Friday for body AF improvements? Or the same for 32MP M6II?

the best accessory I got for M6 is M6ii.

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May THE LIGHT be with you!

KEG wrote:

Maxmolly7 wrote:

Consider to shop for a used M50II or a new one during Black Friday for body AF improvements? Or the same for 32MP M6II?

the best accessory I got for M6 is M6ii.

would love to...but the funds will not permit it.  the only purchase I can afford and justify is a new 16mm f/1.4 for the M5 or a used 24-105L for the 6D2.  I'm just a hobbyist so I can't really spend a lot on gear.  and like some folks here, I really prefer the form factor of the M5.

deanmejos wrote:

a bit off topic: but how's the sigma 16mm AF on the M5? I know it works well on the M50/II and M6II but how is it on an old body like the M5?

Hi deanmejos. I preferred to post my reply as a thread to be better seen.