Digital Pinhole Camera

Kurt Peters wrote:

Anyone know if there is a digital pinhole camera?

I see there are DYI instructions to turn your existing digital camera into a pinhole camera, but I want a stand alone pinhole camera.

A somewhat irrational desire.

Looks like B&H are still selling film pinhole cameras . How hard would it be to put a digital sensor in one of them?

Not hard, just freakin' expensive. Resolution of pinholes is primarily limited by sensor area, and cheap sensors for digital cameras are very small, thus a very bad combo -- which is why this is a bad idea. A 4x5 digital pinhole camera would cost about $26,000 , but a 4x5" digital camera pinhole obscura can cost well under $50.

You'd want something like my 3D-printed Digital Pinhole Camera Obscura, which works with a Canon PowerShot that you can purchase used for under $30. Alternatively, build the pinhole option in my 3D-printed Digital Camera Obscuras Instructable, which can use either a cell phone or a Canon PowerShot. Incidentally, the cool thing about PowerShots is that most models can run CHDK, which means they can be scripted to capture HDR sequences that allow evening of the exposure. You see, pinholes suffer very dramatic light falloff at large view angles, so even a single shot with the very best camera sensors can't really handle the dynamic range.

Kurt Peters wrote:

Anyone know if there is a digital pinhole camera?

I see there are DYI instructions to turn your existing digital camera into a pinhole camera, but I want a stand alone pinhole camera.

Looks like B&H are still selling film pinhole cameras . How hard would it be to put a digital sensor in one of them?

I have experimented using a lens cap which had been converted into a pinhole lens. I utilized it with both cropped sensor and full frame cameras. The results were disappointing. You really need a sensor area greater than of a 35mm full frame camera to get decent results. To show an example, the first image is what was produced using the pinhole lens cap with a Nikon D7100 cropped sensor camera.
The second image shows the result of enhancing the first image using Adobe Photoshop Express.

BillAngel wrote:

Kurt Peters wrote:

Anyone know if there is a digital pinhole camera?

I see there are DYI instructions to turn your existing digital camera into a pinhole camera, but I want a stand alone pinhole camera.

Looks like B&H are still selling film pinhole cameras . How hard would it be to put a digital sensor in one of them?

I have experimented using a lens cap which had been converted into a pinhole lens.

How did you "convert" it? Did you simply drill a pinhole in a lens cap?

Your sample looks like the pinhole material may be too thick, in relation to the size of the pinhole. I've done pinhole lens caps with say a 5mm hole in the lens cap, then covered that hole with common aluminum foil and drilled the actual pinhole in that.  Common foil is about 6.5um thick, and works pretty well with a 300um pinhole, which is about optimal for a 43mm focal length.

I utilized it with both cropped sensor and full frame cameras. The results were disappointing. You really need a sensor area greater than of a 35mm full frame camera to get decent results.

I'm not getting that, some of my FF pinholes are very decent.

But I have done large virtual pinholes by mounting the camera on a two-axis panorama rig. The corrections were pretty easy in Hugin. Haven’t done it with a scan back.

To show an example, the first image is what was produced using the pinhole lens cap with a Nikon D7100 cropped sensor camera.
The second image shows the result of enhancing the first image using Adobe Photoshop Express.

Is that "enhancing" to get around the "results were disappointing" thing? It looks mostly like you boosted saturation and contrast (and maybe played with curves a bit to deal with veiling). Neither saturation nor contrast are inherently a characteristic of larger formats.

Kurt Peters wrote:

Anyone know if there is a digital pinhole camera?

I see there are DYI instructions to turn your existing digital camera into a pinhole camera, but I want a stand alone pinhole camera.

Looks like B&H are still selling film pinhole cameras . How hard would it be to put a digital sensor in one of them?

If you're talking an APS size sensor (about the minimum you want for a pinhole camera) it costs about $10,000 in small quantities to "put a digital sensor in" something. Seriously. Sensors in small quantities are expensive, especially mounted to "evaluation boards" and coupled to a control and data storage system. Then you need some sort of "camera app" to run things.

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

Kurt Peters wrote:

Anyone know if there is a digital pinhole camera?

I see there are DYI instructions to turn your existing digital camera into a pinhole camera, but I want a stand alone pinhole camera.

Looks like B&H are still selling film pinhole cameras . How hard would it be to put a digital sensor in one of them?

If you're talking an APS size sensor (about the minimum you want for a pinhole camera) it costs about $10,000 in small quantities to "put a digital sensor in" something. Seriously. Sensors in small quantities are expensive, especially mounted to "evaluation boards" and coupled to a control and data storage system. Then you need some sort of "camera app" to run things.

You're way off if this is to be a homebuilt or research prototype. Basically, you start with something like an original EOS M, which is supported by Magic Lantern and costs under $200 used...

In any case, see my posting above; the most reasonable is a digital pinhole obscura, which can be made using a CHDK-capable Canon PowerShot and 3D-printed parts for under $50.

PS: ML or CHDK is important because of the strong vignetting for wide-angle pinholes; both allow multi-shot HDR processing to correct for even extreme vignetting in camera.

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

BillAngel wrote:

I have experimented using a lens cap which had been converted into a pinhole lens.

How did you "convert" it? Did you simply drill a pinhole in a lens cap?

Your sample looks like the pinhole material may be too thick, in relation to the size of the pinhole. I've done pinhole lens caps with say a 5mm hole in the lens cap, then covered that hole with common aluminum foil and drilled the actual pinhole in that. Common foil is about 6.5um thick, and works pretty well with a 300um pinhole, which is about optimal for a 43mm focal length.

I bought the pinhole lens cap on ebay.
Here is a link to the item:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304552221876

According to the item's description the pinhole size is 0.3mm.

ProfHankD wrote:

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

Kurt Peters wrote:

Anyone know if there is a digital pinhole camera?

I see there are DYI instructions to turn your existing digital camera into a pinhole camera, but I want a stand alone pinhole camera.

Looks like B&H are still selling film pinhole cameras . How hard would it be to put a digital sensor in one of them?

If you're talking an APS size sensor (about the minimum you want for a pinhole camera) it costs about $10,000 in small quantities to "put a digital sensor in" something. Seriously. Sensors in small quantities are expensive, especially mounted to "evaluation boards" and coupled to a control and data storage system. Then you need some sort of "camera app" to run things.

You're way off if this is to be a homebuilt or research prototype.

Well, that's how I'd treat it, how you'd treat it (of course), and how everyone who replied would treat it. But for reasons of his own, it's not how the OP wants to do it.

Basically, you start with something like an original EOS M, which is supported by Magic Lantern and costs under $200 used...

No arguments here.

In any case, see my posting above; the most reasonable is a digital pinhole obscura, which can be made using a CHDK-capable Canon PowerShot and 3D-printed parts for under $50.

PS: ML or CHDK is important because of the strong vignetting for wide-angle pinholes; both allow multi-shot HDR processing to correct for even extreme vignetting in camera.

You're preaching to the choir.

I was trying to address the OP's issues on his terms.

BillAngel wrote:

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

BillAngel wrote:

I have experimented using a lens cap which had been converted into a pinhole lens.

How did you "convert" it? Did you simply drill a pinhole in a lens cap?

Your sample looks like the pinhole material may be too thick, in relation to the size of the pinhole. I've done pinhole lens caps with say a 5mm hole in the lens cap, then covered that hole with common aluminum foil and drilled the actual pinhole in that. Common foil is about 6.5um thick, and works pretty well with a 300um pinhole, which is about optimal for a 43mm focal length.

I bought the pinhole lens cap on ebay.
Here is a link to the item:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304552221876

According to the item's description the pinhole size is 0.3mm.

The pinhole construction method I recommend is detailed in my Instructable . Basically, it's getting aluminum from a soda can, sanding it raw, drilling a hole in it, and then using aluminum black to make it durable and black. Very precise holes down to about 0.3mm can be made this way, which is incidentally much finer than you can get using a cheap laser. That said, there are commercially-drilled holes for sale all over eBay...

The optimal pinhole size is diameter = constant * sqrt(focal_length * wavelength), where the constant should be roughly 1.56 and 550nm is the usual wavelength. Thus, for a pinhole in a lenscap for a typical DSLR with a flange distance of about 43mm, you'd want a pinhole 1.56 * sqrt(43 * 0.00055) = 0.24mm. For a Z mount body, it would be 1.56 * sqrt(16 * 0.00055) = 0.15mm.  A 0.3mm pinhole would be optimal for around 67mm focal length (i.e., 67mm distance to film/sensor plane). Incidentally, a 43mm 0.3mm pinhole is f/143, so even that somewhat-larger-than-optimum pinhole gives a very dim image...

BillAngel wrote:

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

BillAngel wrote:

I have experimented using a lens cap which had been converted into a pinhole lens.

How did you "convert" it? Did you simply drill a pinhole in a lens cap?

Your sample looks like the pinhole material may be too thick, in relation to the size of the pinhole. I've done pinhole lens caps with say a 5mm hole in the lens cap, then covered that hole with common aluminum foil and drilled the actual pinhole in that. Common foil is about 6.5um thick, and works pretty well with a 300um pinhole, which is about optimal for a 43mm focal length.

I bought the pinhole lens cap on ebay.
Here is a link to the item:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304552221876

According to the item's description the pinhole size is 0.3mm.

There is a way to enhance the images produced with a lenscap pinhole like the one I mentioned. This assumes that you are using it to photograph someone's portrait. I shot the first image with a Nikon D7100 using a lens cap with a pinhole in it. I then enhanced it using the Remini online image enhancer, as shown in the second image. The online image enhancer is free to use if you are willing to watch two 30 second ads.

See https://remini.ai/

BillAngel wrote:

There is a way to enhance the images produced with a lenscap pinhole like the one I mentioned. This assumes that you are using it to photograph someone's portrait. I shot the first image with a Nikon D7100 using a lens cap with a pinhole in it. I then enhanced it using the Remini online image enhancer, as shown in the second image. The online image enhancer is free to use if you are willing to watch two 30 second ads.

See https://remini.ai/

Why?

This is purely synthetic data and chock full of artifacts -- you'd be better off by far using any halfway decent lens.

Kurt Peters wrote:

Anyone know if there is a digital pinhole camera?

I see there are DYI instructions to turn your existing digital camera into a pinhole camera, but I want a stand alone pinhole camera.

Looks like B&H are still selling film pinhole cameras . How hard would it be to put a digital sensor in one of them?

There have been pinhole 'lenses' made in a wide variety of lens mounts. They don't work too well on digital cameras because the available formats are too small.

The cost of these 'lenses' was low enough that I first got one to try on my APSC camera (probably around 10 years ago). IIRC I only tried it once, as was unimpressed. I later ended up with a pinhole & zone plate option for my lensbaby. Again it's only really of novelty value.

I still have them somewhere and may eventually put one on FF & even 5x4 bodies. Both minbe are around 0.25mm (ideally 50mm focal length) A slightly larger pinhole would be better for the 5x4 and might even be worth the cost of expired film. Pinholes at the recommended size for 150mm focal length images (a 0.45mm pinhole) work out around f/333, so will need rather long exposures.

From what I hear if you have a sensor around 10x8" this is getting into the realm where pinholes work relatively well. Doing that with digital is not cheap!!!

ProfHankD wrote:

BillAngel wrote:

There is a way to enhance the images produced with a lenscap pinhole like the one I mentioned. This assumes that you are using it to photograph someone's portrait. I shot the first image with a Nikon D7100 using a lens cap with a pinhole in it. I then enhanced it using the Remini online image enhancer, as shown in the second image. The online image enhancer is free to use if you are willing to watch two 30 second ads.

See https://remini.ai/

Why?

This is purely synthetic data and chock full of artifacts -- you'd be better off by far using any halfway decent lens.

Surely practically lenses can manage better, even if they aren't even remotely decent. I think there's only one of the positive diopter 'lenses' I've picked up that can't do at least as well. The exception is a single aspherical element intended for laser comms.

However adding a lens to the equation is rather missing the point of playing with pinholes

petrochemist wrote:

ProfHankD wrote:

BillAngel wrote:

There is a way to enhance the images produced with a lenscap pinhole like the one I mentioned. This assumes that you are using it to photograph someone's portrait. I shot the first image with a Nikon D7100 using a lens cap with a pinhole in it. I then enhanced it using the Remini online image enhancer, as shown in the second image. The online image enhancer is free to use if you are willing to watch two 30 second ads.

See https://remini.ai/

Why?

This is purely synthetic data and chock full of artifacts -- you'd be better off by far using any halfway decent lens.

Surely practically lenses can manage better, even if they aren't even remotely decent. I think there's only one of the positive diopter 'lenses' I've picked up that can't do at least as well. The exception is a single aspherical element intended for laser comms.

However adding a lens to the equation is rather missing the point of playing with pinholes

I would say that's even more true of adding AI processing an existing pinhole image. The first thing I noticed about Bill's processed image was the shallow depth of field: the face was in focus, but the shoulders weren’t. The AI enhanced the image to look like it had been shot with a lens.

Isn’t the point of "playing with pinholes" to achieve a certain look, dominated by being uniformly out-of-focus from front to back?

You can get an expensive one; https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?q=pinhole&sts=ma

Or get a cheap one; https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=pinhole+cap&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=A+Cappella+Todd+Rundgren&_osacat=0

You can have a lot of fun with any of those.

One thing that you will quickly learn is that you must keep the camera sensor spotless. ANY dust will show up when you go to edit the images.