glare or highlights on black beetle - poor diffuser ?

hi,

If Darth Vader were a beetle he might have looked like the following pic...

I was trying to get a shot of a black beetle today but glare or reflections on the shiny top of its head ruined things somewhat

I moved the beetle somewhere darker, so the main light was only coming from the flash

I've searched the forum for hints on reducing glare, not that many, and of the 3 the best idea seemed to be suggesting a concave diffuser and two flashes. Mine is homemade and flat using a single top mounted flash, which has been ok so far for most things as I've not often noticed glare like this

I see that the high end diffusers are also concave, but i dont really know why (other than it looks cool)

Do you think thats an answer?, or could it be the diffuser material is insufficient ? or something else ? ...

Ideas (and pics of DIY concave diffusers) welcome

thanks

Jim

manual stack of two - lightly edited - but glare on head is terrible

Mike Engles wrote:

If possible take a test picture with diffused natural light, to see what you get.

With flash you will have to simulate the effect of natural light, so that there is no point source. You need to avoid any kind of hot spot. Much much easier said than done.

hah, yes it’s tricky

This is x2 of a Rosemary beetle. I cloned.the hot spots using other parts

You also have a degree of front focus as generally in this genre, the eyes are supposed to be in sharpest focus

i cloned an eye (only) from a second shot, I didn’t spend any time cloning other parts of the head since the glare was overpowering

Jim

Mike Engles wrote:

It looks unnatural to clone the whole thing away, painting over it by sampling the colour in overlay or another mode will help reduce the glare

hi Mike, thanks for replies

I know what you mean, eg clone or paint brush at xx% opacity, but I wasn't after a post processing solution

I wanted to know what caused the glare in such abundance when I took the shot, I'm looking to know if it was the diffuser or ... that needs improved somehow

regards
Jim

Mike Engles wrote:

The beetle is very shiny and you have a light acting as a point source. The light reflector/diffuser has to be really large in relation to the object, in essence to act like a overcast sky in daylight.Those diffuser/reflectors that have a hole to let the lens poke through seem to be effective, but I imagine they need a powerful flash as a lot of light might be lost

That is why I suggested test pictures of reflective surfaces, with and without flash

Also in Fred Miranda, the macro forum has a long running page about peoples setups, which is pretty useful. Youtube has many videos about this very subject.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=macro+flash+diffuser

I had one of those poke through types which was ok but I ended up using it as the diffusion material on a DIY softbox type based on the several youtubes i watched, i was trying to get more focussed light / more light from a lower powered flash to speed up recycle time (eneloops had a +ve effect on that)

Its interesting that the DIY approach all seem to be a box with a flat diffusion panel, whereas the ones people buy and rave about (pope, ak, radiant, etc) all seem to be curved and have a concave diffusion panel. The internal led lamps must also aid focussing and provide some background lighting.

I assume that curved approach has some advantages? but why ? I dont see glare on examples provided from these ... but then again most of my shots dont have glare either - usually just shiny beetles.

jim mij wrote:

hi,

If Darth Vader were a beetle he might have looked like the following pic...

I was trying to get a shot of a black beetle today but glare or reflections on the shiny top of its head ruined things somewhat

I moved the beetle somewhere darker, so the main light was only coming from the flash

I've searched the forum for hints on reducing glare, not that many, and of the 3 the best idea seemed to be suggesting a concave diffuser and two flashes. Mine is homemade and flat using a single top mounted flash, which has been ok so far for most things as I've not often noticed glare like this

I see that the high end diffusers are also concave, but i dont really know why (other than it looks cool)

Do you think thats an answer?, or could it be the diffuser material is insufficient ? or something else ? ...

Ideas (and pics of DIY concave diffusers) welcome

thanks

Jim

manual stack of two - lightly edited - but glare on head is terrible

Please See links below. The issue is your diffuser. You do NOT need to buy any of these diffusers that are premade. Most macro photographers make their own. For years I used packing foam sheets and still do sometimes for several reasons. However, after reading some of Nicky Bays blog, I experimented with flexible cutting boards and they work great. The tricks are #1, Making the light source large relative to subject, #2, Getting even lighting across the diffuser which is solved by #3 Getting light spread from the flash in as short of a distance as poassible. All of this will solve issues in specular highlights, give softer light, and light which wraps around the subject giving soft transitions

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57126945

https://www.nickybay.com/macro-equipment/

http://orionmystery.blogspot.com/2010/12/more-macro-rigs.html?m=1

********-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-**********
Some of my photos here: https://flic.kr/ps/2i6XL3
“You're off to Great Places! Today is your day! Your mountain is waiting, So... get on your way!” --Dr. Seuss

c h u n k wrote:

jim mij wrote:

hi,

If Darth Vader were a beetle he might have looked like the following pic...

I was trying to get a shot of a black beetle today but glare or reflections on the shiny top of its head ruined things somewhat

I moved the beetle somewhere darker, so the main light was only coming from the flash

I've searched the forum for hints on reducing glare, not that many, and of the 3 the best idea seemed to be suggesting a concave diffuser and two flashes. Mine is homemade and flat using a single top mounted flash, which has been ok so far for most things as I've not often noticed glare like this

I see that the high end diffusers are also concave, but i dont really know why (other than it looks cool)

Do you think thats an answer?, or could it be the diffuser material is insufficient ? or something else ? ...

Ideas (and pics of DIY concave diffusers) welcome

thanks

Jim

Please See links below. The issue is your diffuser. You do NOT need to buy any of these diffusers that are premade. Most macro photographers make their own. For years I used packing foam sheets and still do sometimes for several reasons. However, after reading some of Nicky Bays blog, I experimented with flexible cutting boards and they work great. The tricks are #1, Making the light source large relative to subject, #2, Getting even lighting across the diffuser which is solved by #3 Getting light spread from the flash in as short of a distance as poassible. All of this will solve issues in specular highlights, give softer light, and light which wraps around the subject giving soft transitions

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57126945

https://www.nickybay.com/macro-equipment/

http://orionmystery.blogspot.com/2010/12/more-macro-rigs.html?m=1

********-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-**********
Some of my photos here: https://flic.kr/ps/2i6XL3
“You're off to Great Places! Today is your day! Your mountain is waiting, So... get on your way!” --Dr. Seuss

many thanks, those are very useful links, each with further reading, shame they are not pinned at the top of the forum as must reads for those interested in diffusion

I was revisiting my shots yesterday, glare only seems to be annoying in beetles/ladybirds. I assume if I can cure that then all shots would also benefit

Thanks

Jim

jim mij wrote:

c h u n k wrote:

jim mij wrote:

hi,

If Darth Vader were a beetle he might have looked like the following pic...

I was trying to get a shot of a black beetle today but glare or reflections on the shiny top of its head ruined things somewhat

I moved the beetle somewhere darker, so the main light was only coming from the flash

I've searched the forum for hints on reducing glare, not that many, and of the 3 the best idea seemed to be suggesting a concave diffuser and two flashes. Mine is homemade and flat using a single top mounted flash, which has been ok so far for most things as I've not often noticed glare like this

I see that the high end diffusers are also concave, but i dont really know why (other than it looks cool)

Do you think thats an answer?, or could it be the diffuser material is insufficient ? or something else ? ...

Ideas (and pics of DIY concave diffusers) welcome

thanks

Jim

Please See links below. The issue is your diffuser. You do NOT need to buy any of these diffusers that are premade. Most macro photographers make their own. For years I used packing foam sheets and still do sometimes for several reasons. However, after reading some of Nicky Bays blog, I experimented with flexible cutting boards and they work great. The tricks are #1, Making the light source large relative to subject, #2, Getting even lighting across the diffuser which is solved by #3 Getting light spread from the flash in as short of a distance as poassible. All of this will solve issues in specular highlights, give softer light, and light which wraps around the subject giving soft transitions

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57126945

https://www.nickybay.com/macro-equipment/

http://orionmystery.blogspot.com/2010/12/more-macro-rigs.html?m=1

********-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-**********
Some of my photos here: https://flic.kr/ps/2i6XL3
“You're off to Great Places! Today is your day! Your mountain is waiting, So... get on your way!” --Dr. Seuss

many thanks, those are very useful links, each with further reading, shame they are not pinned at the top of the forum as must reads for those interested in diffusion

I was revisiting my shots yesterday, glare only seems to be annoying in beetles/ladybirds. I assume if I can cure that then all shots would also benefit

Thanks

Jim

Those types of beetles are the ones we use to test the quality of the diffuser. Jumping spider eyes pose other issues, but in terms of achieving soft, wrapping light with good transition, beetles like ladybugs and those little shiny black beetles show everything. Its all about size of light source and distance between light and subject. I still have a little glare in this shot but not too distracting.

jim mij wrote:

hi,

If Darth Vader were a beetle he might have looked like the following pic...

I was trying to get a shot of a black beetle today but glare or reflections on the shiny top of its head ruined things somewhat

I moved the beetle somewhere darker, so the main light was only coming from the flash

I've searched the forum for hints on reducing glare, not that many, and of the 3 the best idea seemed to be suggesting a concave diffuser and two flashes.

Well, do you do any studio portrait work?

My first rule of photography:

Everything is a portrait.

Just because it's an insect doesn't mean it doesn't have a personality, or that you don't want to impose one upon it. You compared your beetle to "Darth Vader". Look at some movie caps of ol' dark dome: does he ever get shot with a big diffused light from directly overhead?

Most portraits involve at least two separate light: main and fill, and neither of them are aligned anything like a single macro diffuser. I've done things that do work like that: literally with two 4x6 ft soft-boxes pushed together to make an 8x6, with me squished between them shooting through a small gap. Vincent Versace took an 8ft octabank and added a tunnel through it near the center so he can use it as a "ring light" larger than the model. Unless you're a skilled fashion photographer, don't do that.

Mine is homemade and flat using a single top mounted flash, which has been ok so far for most things as I've not often noticed glare like this

You've got a subject that can look wet and oily. That's a gift: don't waste it. Single, smaller main off to one side or the other. Larger fill, but again off to one side or the other.

I'm looking at that picture and thinking "I'd like the light to be a tiny point, like a small flash with no diffuser 6 feet away" which means the highlights on the insect are going to be sharp, bright points. They will blow out... let them.

Then pick your favorite lens for "sun stars" and let those highlights make some.

I see that the high end diffusers are also concave, but i dont really know why (other than it looks cool)

Mechanical strength and spring tension?

Do you think thats an answer?, or could it be the diffuser material is insufficient ? or something else ? ...

I think the concept is the problem, not the qualities of the material.

• What is the beetle's story?
• What is it trying to tell us, or what are you trying to tell us about it?

If you can't answer those questions, how can you paint the light on to add that emotional content into the scene?

Practice!

Get yourself a couple of well preserved beetles you can take home. If one isn't as shiny as your subject here, give it a nice spray of lacquer. Then start placing lights and shooting.

Remember, in the field you have to be fast with your lighting, so you might think about getting a cage or bracket for the camera that will support some flex arms and small flashes. The plan the shoot around one particular mood, like "for the next two hours I will be shooting "glamorous fashion bugs"" and on a different outing thing "I'm shooting super-villain bugs" or "I am trying to express technophobia through mechanistic looking bugs". Set your lighting rig up like that, and then if today's shoot is "bad boy bugs" and you see the perfect "love bug" ignore it, move on, and continue looking for the "bad boy beetle".

Plan the shoot, then shoot the plan!

Ideas (and pics of DIY concave diffusers) welcome

thanks

Jim

manual stack of two - lightly edited - but glare on head is terrible

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

jim mij wrote:

hi,

If Darth Vader were a beetle he might have looked like the following pic...

I was trying to get a shot of a black beetle today but glare or reflections on the shiny top of its head ruined things somewhat

I moved the beetle somewhere darker, so the main light was only coming from the flash

I've searched the forum for hints on reducing glare, not that many, and of the 3 the best idea seemed to be suggesting a concave diffuser and two flashes.

Well, do you do any studio portrait work?

My first rule of photography:

Everything is a portrait.

Just because it's an insect doesn't mean it doesn't have a personality, or that you don't want to impose one upon it. You compared your beetle to "Darth Vader". Look at some movie caps of ol' dark dome: does he ever get shot with a big diffused light from directly overhead?

Most portraits involve at least two separate light: main and fill, and neither of them are aligned anything like a single macro diffuser. I've done things that do work like that: literally with two 4x6 ft soft-boxes pushed together to make an 8x6, with me squished between them shooting through a small gap. Vincent Versace took an 8ft octabank and added a tunnel through it near the center so he can use it as a "ring light" larger than the model. Unless you're a skilled fashion photographer, don't do that.

hi Joseph, thanks for the reply, it gave me a few things to think about

I get the point, but in Darths case he sits around in a motor home for a few hours till the director etc is ready to take the shot, i could put the beetle in a box till i was ready, but it's unlikely to follow cues to stay still till i take some shots

Mine is homemade and flat using a single top mounted flash, which has been ok so far for most things as I've not often noticed glare like this

You've got a subject that can look wet and oily. That's a gift: don't waste it. Single, smaller main off to one side or the other. Larger fill, but again off to one side or the other.

I'm looking at that picture and thinking "I'd like the light to be a tiny point, like a small flash with no diffuser 6 feet away" which means the highlights on the insect are going to be sharp, bright points. They will blow out... let them.

Then pick your favorite lens for "sun stars" and let those highlights make some.

Again i get your points and see the possibilities in the future, eg i could try again with twin lights, or side mounted lights or ,,,, and if everyone says its "impossible" to get a better shot of a beetle with a single on camera flash and single diffuser then so be it, but at the moment all i have is a single flash and all i can tweak is the diffuser (or perhaps  move the flash off camera, i'll have to look up how)

I see that the high end diffusers are also concave, but i dont really know why (other than it looks cool)

Mechanical strength and spring tension?

I was more interested in how/if the light improves with a concave diffuser over a flat diffuser. I did get some ideas on that from the links Chunk provides in his 1st response. My interpretation was that a larger light that is also wrapped around the subject gives a flatter more even result with no or less glare . Re your point below this is akin to a "mini cage"

Do you think thats an answer?, or could it be the diffuser material is insufficient ? or something else ? ...

I think the concept is the problem, not the qualities of the material.

• What is the beetle's story?
• What is it trying to tell us, or what are you trying to tell us about it?

If you can't answer those questions, how can you paint the light on to add that emotional content into the scene?

Practice!

Get yourself a couple of well preserved beetles you can take home. If one isn't as shiny as your subject here, give it a nice spray of lacquer. Then start placing lights and shooting.

I was practising today with two ladybirds and a new improved and less flawed diffuser, but the critters would just not keep still. I'll keep a look out for something freshly deceased and try and try again. Still things and other gear must make it be easier...

Remember, in the field you have to be fast with your lighting, so you might think about getting a cage or bracket for the camera that will support some flex arms and small flashes. The plan the shoot around one particular mood, like "for the next two hours I will be shooting "glamorous fashion bugs"" and on a different outing thing "I'm shooting super-villain bugs" or "I am trying to express technophobia through mechanistic looking bugs". Set your lighting rig up like that, and then if today's shoot is "bad boy bugs" and you see the perfect "love bug" ignore it, move on, and continue looking for the "bad boy beetle".

Plan the shoot, then shoot the plan!

I think i'll try this in two ways. 1) I will look into how to get the flash away from the camera, but as its now a wet autumn and we're heading into winter the 2nd option might be better 2)   I'll "plan the shoot" and use an in house stage, and drop a bug into that and play around with the lights I have, eg flash and led

Thanks again for the ideas

Jim

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

jim mij wrote:

hi,

If Darth Vader were a beetle he might have looked like the following pic...

I was trying to get a shot of a black beetle today but glare or reflections on the shiny top of its head ruined things somewhat

I moved the beetle somewhere darker, so the main light was only coming from the flash

I've searched the forum for hints on reducing glare, not that many, and of the 3 the best idea seemed to be suggesting a concave diffuser and two flashes.

Well, do you do any studio portrait work?

My first rule of photography:

Everything is a portrait.

Just because it's an insect doesn't mean it doesn't have a personality, or that you don't want to impose one upon it. You compared your beetle to "Darth Vader". Look at some movie caps of ol' dark dome: does he ever get shot with a big diffused light from directly overhead?

Most portraits involve at least two separate light: main and fill, and neither of them are aligned anything like a single macro diffuser. I've done things that do work like that: literally with two 4x6 ft soft-boxes pushed together to make an 8x6, with me squished between them shooting through a small gap. Vincent Versace took an 8ft octabank and added a tunnel through it near the center so he can use it as a "ring light" larger than the model. Unless you're a skilled fashion photographer, don't do that.

Mine is homemade and flat using a single top mounted flash, which has been ok so far for most things as I've not often noticed glare like this

You've got a subject that can look wet and oily. That's a gift: don't waste it. Single, smaller main off to one side or the other. Larger fill, but again off to one side or the other.

I'm looking at that picture and thinking "I'd like the light to be a tiny point, like a small flash with no diffuser 6 feet away" which means the highlights on the insect are going to be sharp, bright points. They will blow out... let them.

Then pick your favorite lens for "sun stars" and let those highlights make some.

I see that the high end diffusers are also concave, but i dont really know why (other than it looks cool)

Mechanical strength and spring tension?

Do you think thats an answer?, or could it be the diffuser material is insufficient ? or something else ? ...

I think the concept is the problem, not the qualities of the material.

• What is the beetle's story?
• What is it trying to tell us, or what are you trying to tell us about it?

If you can't answer those questions, how can you paint the light on to add that emotional content into the scene?

Practice!

Get yourself a couple of well preserved beetles you can take home. If one isn't as shiny as your subject here, give it a nice spray of lacquer. Then start placing lights and shooting.

Remember, in the field you have to be fast with your lighting, so you might think about getting a cage or bracket for the camera that will support some flex arms and small flashes. The plan the shoot around one particular mood, like "for the next two hours I will be shooting "glamorous fashion bugs"" and on a different outing thing "I'm shooting super-villain bugs" or "I am trying to express technophobia through mechanistic looking bugs". Set your lighting rig up like that, and then if today's shoot is "bad boy bugs" and you see the perfect "love bug" ignore it, move on, and continue looking for the "bad boy beetle".

Plan the shoot, then shoot the plan!

Ideas (and pics of DIY concave diffusers) welcome

thanks

Jim

manual stack of two - lightly edited - but glare on head is terrible

Do you have any sample macro photos if insects using your ideas? While I like the concept of "shoot everything like a portrait", some things often wont translate. People arent made of shiny exoskeletons, we are considerabally larger obviously, we dont have multiple eyes or compound eyes, etc etc. A single bare flash at a distance may be something you would for some reason prefer, but that is generally just bad advice here.

Using a single diffuser is a proven method to get the results many people want. Its literally optimal. Not just the best option, but the perfect one. I sometimes use a single speedlight and diffuser, sometimes a twin flash with a single diffuser and sometimes a twin flash with 2 diffusers. Your suggestion for finding a bracket has also already been solved in mumerous ways. What are you suggesting there?

I think the best way to approach this is to look at photos which have the same or similar results to what you want, practice and then experiment/tweak from there.

jim mij wrote:

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

jim mij wrote:

hi,

If Darth Vader were a beetle he might have looked like the following pic...

I was trying to get a shot of a black beetle today but glare or reflections on the shiny top of its head ruined things somewhat

I moved the beetle somewhere darker, so the main light was only coming from the flash

I've searched the forum for hints on reducing glare, not that many, and of the 3 the best idea seemed to be suggesting a concave diffuser and two flashes.

Well, do you do any studio portrait work?

My first rule of photography:

Everything is a portrait.

Just because it's an insect doesn't mean it doesn't have a personality, or that you don't want to impose one upon it. You compared your beetle to "Darth Vader". Look at some movie caps of ol' dark dome: does he ever get shot with a big diffused light from directly overhead?

Most portraits involve at least two separate light: main and fill, and neither of them are aligned anything like a single macro diffuser. I've done things that do work like that: literally with two 4x6 ft soft-boxes pushed together to make an 8x6, with me squished between them shooting through a small gap. Vincent Versace took an 8ft octabank and added a tunnel through it near the center so he can use it as a "ring light" larger than the model. Unless you're a skilled fashion photographer, don't do that.

hi Joseph, thanks for the reply, it gave me a few things to think about

I get the point, but in Darths case he sits around in a motor home for a few hours till the director etc is ready to take the shot, i could put the beetle in a box till i was ready, but it's unlikely to follow cues to stay still till i take some shots

Mine is homemade and flat using a single top mounted flash, which has been ok so far for most things as I've not often noticed glare like this

You've got a subject that can look wet and oily. That's a gift: don't waste it. Single, smaller main off to one side or the other. Larger fill, but again off to one side or the other.

I'm looking at that picture and thinking "I'd like the light to be a tiny point, like a small flash with no diffuser 6 feet away" which means the highlights on the insect are going to be sharp, bright points. They will blow out... let them.

Then pick your favorite lens for "sun stars" and let those highlights make some.

Again i get your points and see the possibilities in the future, eg i could try again with twin lights, or side mounted lights or ,,,, and if everyone says its "impossible" to get a better shot of a beetle with a single on camera flash and single diffuser then so be it, but at the moment all i have is a single flash and all i can tweak is the diffuser (or perhaps move the flash off camera, i'll have to look up how)

I see that the high end diffusers are also concave, but i dont really know why (other than it looks cool)

Mechanical strength and spring tension?

I was more interested in how/if the light improves with a concave diffuser over a flat diffuser. I did get some ideas on that from the links Chunk provides in his 1st response. My interpretation was that a larger light that is also wrapped around the subject gives a flatter more even result with no or less glare . Re your point below this is akin to a "mini cage"

Do you think thats an answer?, or could it be the diffuser material is insufficient ? or something else ? ...

I think the concept is the problem, not the qualities of the material.

• What is the beetle's story?
• What is it trying to tell us, or what are you trying to tell us about it?

If you can't answer those questions, how can you paint the light on to add that emotional content into the scene?

Practice!

Get yourself a couple of well preserved beetles you can take home. If one isn't as shiny as your subject here, give it a nice spray of lacquer. Then start placing lights and shooting.

I was practising today with two ladybirds and a new improved and less flawed diffuser, but the critters would just not keep still. I'll keep a look out for something freshly deceased and try and try again. Still things and other gear must make it be easier...

Remember, in the field you have to be fast with your lighting, so you might think about getting a cage or bracket for the camera that will support some flex arms and small flashes. The plan the shoot around one particular mood, like "for the next two hours I will be shooting "glamorous fashion bugs"" and on a different outing thing "I'm shooting super-villain bugs" or "I am trying to express technophobia through mechanistic looking bugs". Set your lighting rig up like that, and then if today's shoot is "bad boy bugs" and you see the perfect "love bug" ignore it, move on, and continue looking for the "bad boy beetle".

Plan the shoot, then shoot the plan!

I think i'll try this in two ways. 1) I will look into how to get the flash away from the camera, but as its now a wet autumn and we're heading into winter the 2nd option might be better 2) I'll "plan the shoot" and use an in house stage, and drop a bug into that and play around with the lights I have, eg flash and led

Thanks again for the ideas

Jim

Ugh, I have to jump in. I mean, go ahead and experiment ALWAYS, but getting the flash off camera is just going to introduce a host of new issues for what you want to accomplish. Not to mention make the problem you want to solve worse. In order to reduce specular highlights, you want to soften the light. With small insects, part of how this is accomplished is be getting the lightsource (the diffuser becomes the source) as close to the subject as possible along with avoiding a hotspot in the diffuser. That is done spreading the light over as much as the diffuser area as evenly as possible. Concave setups are effective because the wrap the light. Even when the diffuser is large relative to subject (subjects are small so you dont need a softbox - we can be reasonable in definitions) in the field, you find that the bottom of the insect can be completely in shadow. Concave diffusers can sometimes solve this. With twin setups, you can position one at around 6:00 or 7:00 and the other at 2:00 which addresses the same issues - essentially key and fill.

Ive stopped worrying about being polite sometimes so Ill just say it - do yourself a favor and ignore most of that guys response. He may be okay with other genres of photography, I dont know, but I will assume we wont see any macro results proving hes ever even attempted that "advice", or if there is, it wont be what you are after.

c h u n k wrote:

jim mij wrote:

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

jim mij wrote:

hi,

If Darth Vader were a beetle he might have looked like the following pic...

I was trying to get a shot of a black beetle today but glare or reflections on the shiny top of its head ruined things somewhat

I moved the beetle somewhere darker, so the main light was only coming from the flash

I've searched the forum for hints on reducing glare, not that many, and of the 3 the best idea seemed to be suggesting a concave diffuser and two flashes.

Well, do you do any studio portrait work?

My first rule of photography:

Everything is a portrait.

Just because it's an insect doesn't mean it doesn't have a personality, or that you don't want to impose one upon it. You compared your beetle to "Darth Vader". Look at some movie caps of ol' dark dome: does he ever get shot with a big diffused light from directly overhead?

Most portraits involve at least two separate light: main and fill, and neither of them are aligned anything like a single macro diffuser. I've done things that do work like that: literally with two 4x6 ft soft-boxes pushed together to make an 8x6, with me squished between them shooting through a small gap. Vincent Versace took an 8ft octabank and added a tunnel through it near the center so he can use it as a "ring light" larger than the model. Unless you're a skilled fashion photographer, don't do that.

hi Joseph, thanks for the reply, it gave me a few things to think about

I get the point, but in Darths case he sits around in a motor home for a few hours till the director etc is ready to take the shot, i could put the beetle in a box till i was ready, but it's unlikely to follow cues to stay still till i take some shots

Mine is homemade and flat using a single top mounted flash, which has been ok so far for most things as I've not often noticed glare like this

You've got a subject that can look wet and oily. That's a gift: don't waste it. Single, smaller main off to one side or the other. Larger fill, but again off to one side or the other.

I'm looking at that picture and thinking "I'd like the light to be a tiny point, like a small flash with no diffuser 6 feet away" which means the highlights on the insect are going to be sharp, bright points. They will blow out... let them.

Then pick your favorite lens for "sun stars" and let those highlights make some.

Again i get your points and see the possibilities in the future, eg i could try again with twin lights, or side mounted lights or ,,,, and if everyone says its "impossible" to get a better shot of a beetle with a single on camera flash and single diffuser then so be it, but at the moment all i have is a single flash and all i can tweak is the diffuser (or perhaps move the flash off camera, i'll have to look up how)

I see that the high end diffusers are also concave, but i dont really know why (other than it looks cool)

Mechanical strength and spring tension?

I was more interested in how/if the light improves with a concave diffuser over a flat diffuser. I did get some ideas on that from the links Chunk provides in his 1st response. My interpretation was that a larger light that is also wrapped around the subject gives a flatter more even result with no or less glare . Re your point below this is akin to a "mini cage"

Do you think thats an answer?, or could it be the diffuser material is insufficient ? or something else ? ...

I think the concept is the problem, not the qualities of the material.

• What is the beetle's story?
• What is it trying to tell us, or what are you trying to tell us about it?

If you can't answer those questions, how can you paint the light on to add that emotional content into the scene?

Practice!

Get yourself a couple of well preserved beetles you can take home. If one isn't as shiny as your subject here, give it a nice spray of lacquer. Then start placing lights and shooting.

I was practising today with two ladybirds and a new improved and less flawed diffuser, but the critters would just not keep still. I'll keep a look out for something freshly deceased and try and try again. Still things and other gear must make it be easier...

Remember, in the field you have to be fast with your lighting, so you might think about getting a cage or bracket for the camera that will support some flex arms and small flashes. The plan the shoot around one particular mood, like "for the next two hours I will be shooting "glamorous fashion bugs"" and on a different outing thing "I'm shooting super-villain bugs" or "I am trying to express technophobia through mechanistic looking bugs". Set your lighting rig up like that, and then if today's shoot is "bad boy bugs" and you see the perfect "love bug" ignore it, move on, and continue looking for the "bad boy beetle".

Plan the shoot, then shoot the plan!

I think i'll try this in two ways. 1) I will look into how to get the flash away from the camera, but as its now a wet autumn and we're heading into winter the 2nd option might be better 2) I'll "plan the shoot" and use an in house stage, and drop a bug into that and play around with the lights I have, eg flash and led

Thanks again for the ideas

Jim

Ugh, I have to jump in. I mean, go ahead and experiment ALWAYS, but getting the flash off camera is just going to introduce a host of new issues for what you want to accomplish.

I experimented last night, and while I did persuade the camera m6ii to trigger the remote flash it was only achieved by using the pop up flash, I kinda ran out of hands to make it all work, it’s be a nightmare outside. While I can see advantages indoors I’d end up buying kit for better connectivity, as you say new issues….

Not to mention make the problem you want to solve worse. In order to reduce specular highlights, you want to soften the light. With small insects, part of how this is accomplished is be getting the lightsource (the diffuser becomes the source) as close to the subject as possible along with avoiding a hotspot in the diffuser. That is done spreading the light over as much as the diffuser area as evenly as possible. Concave setups are effective because the wrap the light.

yes, your previous links gave explanations / examples, I’m still tinkering and adjusting to get  that. I did see a video showing someone using the camera in one hand and the flash with diffuser in another, interesting but not for me, it’s hard enough to get the camera in the bugs face without your other hand trying to get the flash gun in there too

Even when the diffuser is large relative to subject (subjects are small so you dont need a softbox - we can be reasonable in definitions) in the field, you find that the bottom of the insect can be completely in shadow. Concave diffusers can sometimes solve this. With twin setups, you can position one at around 6:00 or 7:00 and the other at 2:00 which addresses the same issues - essentially key and fill.

Ive stopped worrying about being polite sometimes so Ill just say it - do yourself a favor and ignore most of that guys response. He may be okay with other genres of photography, I dont know, but I will assume we wont see any macro results proving hes ever even attempted that "advice", or if there is, it wont be what you are after.

Time will tell, examples with explanations are better. It’s interesting seeing how other genres think about and solve a problem (portrait), but keeping it simple with limited gear is still my approach at the moment

Jim

Mike Engles wrote:

Perhaps experiments with shiny domed buttons with engravings set on a leaf would give a consistent target to work with.Buttons on service peoples tunics for example

hah, strange you should mention that, i did a quick test the other day of an on/off domed button on a kettle baseplate and it did show similar glare to the beetle. I'd have posted one but all were deleted after a quick look. I've since put more effort into diffusers

Jim

Mike Engles wrote:

Perhaps experiments with shiny domed buttons with engravings set on a leaf would give a consistent target to work with.Buttons on service peoples tunics for example

I'm far from my server and trying to come up with examples of what I was talking about, and I don't want my subject moving between shots. It's also late in the season here, and all I've been able to find that are shiny are some shiny black spiders that I really, really want to leave where they are.

I believe there's a glass insect or two in my collection.

I think I can pull up the old dual arm rig (trying not illustrate my point without $2,000 worth of lighting.