Will Sigma ever release the 18-50mm F2.8 zoom for EF-M?

Will Sigma ever release the 18-50mm F2.8 zoom for EF-M?
Does the Canon ban on 3rd party AF lenses for the RF mount apply to EF-M as well?
I would love to have this bright sharp standard zoom for my carry-around camera, and I really (really) don't want a SONY alpha.

The only other option would be a Leica APS-C camera in L mount, and they're not as well specced as M cameras in many ways (but nice in others).

Should I just be content with my 18-55 zoom with its competent IS and shoot higher ISO as the light falls?

I think M system is not a target for Sigma anymore? Little demand because many enthusiasts moved away?

I wouldn't hold your breath. It's unlikely there will be any more autofocus EF-M lenses in the future by any manufacturer, IMO.

No.

User1303423862 wrote:

Will Sigma ever release the 18-50mm F2.8 zoom for EF-M?
Does the Canon ban on 3rd party AF lenses for the RF mount apply to EF-M as well?
I would love to have this bright sharp standard zoom for my carry-around camera, and I really (really) don't want a SONY alpha.

The only other option would be a Leica APS-C camera in L mount, and they're not as well specced as M cameras in many ways (but nice in others).

Should I just be content with my 18-55 zoom with its competent IS and shoot higher ISO as the light falls?

YehudaKatz wrote:

User1303423862 wrote:

Will Sigma ever release the 18-50mm F2.8 zoom for EF-M?
Does the Canon ban on 3rd party AF lenses for the RF mount apply to EF-M as well?
I would love to have this bright sharp standard zoom for my carry-around camera, and I really (really) don't want a SONY alpha.

The only other option would be a Leica APS-C camera in L mount, and they're not as well specced as M cameras in many ways (but nice in others).

Should I just be content with my 18-55 zoom with its competent IS and shoot higher ISO as the light falls?

The answer is no and that's not a guess.  That Sigma lens needs some heavy distortion correction, for the M system this needs to be in camera distortion correction and Canon is not going to support this.   So even if M wasn't a sunsetting mount it wouldn't happen.

Maxmolly7 wrote:

I think M system is not a target for Sigma anymore? Little demand because many enthusiasts moved away?

The secondhand market prices for M bodies indicates there is still plenty of interest in the system. Why wouldn't there be? Great cameras, great lens range (except a bright standard zoom).

Sigma would sell boatloads of these 18-50 F2.8 lenses in EF-M mount. A lot more than L mount, that's for sure.

No text.

Sittatunga wrote:

User1303423862 wrote:

Will Sigma ever release the 18-50mm F2.8 zoom for EF-M?
Does the Canon ban on 3rd party AF lenses for the RF mount apply to EF-M as well?

No. It's a reasonably sized lens and not horrendously expensive, but it's not effectively as fast, wide or long as my EF 24-105mm f/4.

I have an EOS R and RF mount 24-105 F4 L. But that's for pre-planned work. I don't carry it around for casual photography opportunities.

Sigma don't do Z mount yet either, and I think it will be 3 or 4 years before they reverse engineer RF mount to the satisfaction of the patent lawyers.

Sigma have already engineered the electronics and mount for EF-M. Why won't they give us the 18-50 F2.8, dammit.

nnowak wrote:

User1303423862 wrote:

Will Sigma ever release the 18-50mm F2.8 zoom for EF-M?
Does the Canon ban on 3rd party AF lenses for the RF mount apply to EF-M as well?

No. The EF-M mount Sigma primes are still for sale.

The RF issue is messy and it is unclear which patents Canon felt were being violated. Canon RF mount cameras support two different communication protocols. RF lenses use a new high speed communication protocol, but the camera can "dumb down" to the old, slower EF protocol for use with adapted lens. Sort of like a laptop with a USB 3.1 port still supporting USB 1.0 peripherals. Canon actually patented the ability to support dual communication protocols.

To date, all of the 3rd party RF mount lenses that were introduced (and now dropped) used the old EF protocols. Those 3rd party lenses could be thought of as EF lenses with a permanently attached RF adapter. No reverse engineered RF protocols were used in these lenses. Patents on the EF protocols expired decades ago, and the EF-M mount uses the standard EF protocols with a slightly revised electrical pinout. It is possible the RF patent infringement claims revolve around some mechanical features such as the dimensions of the mount or the pinout of the electrical contacts.

I would love to have this bright sharp standard zoom for my carry-around camera, and I really (really) don't want a SONY alpha.

The only other option would be a Leica APS-C camera in L mount, and they're not as well specced as M cameras in many ways (but nice in others).

Sigma has also announced that the 18-55mm f/2.8 will be coming to the Fuji mount by the end of the year, but Sigma has yet to announce any future plans for other systems.

Should I just be content with my 18-55 zoom with its competent IS and shoot higher ISO as the light falls?

Your only other option is adapting the fairly large and heavy EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS or Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 OS.

Really informative, thanks for this reply. I have an older EF mount Sigma F2.8 zoom (non-IS though). It's great, but as you said, a bit big and heavy for the M system.

thunder storm wrote:

YehudaKatz wrote:

User1303423862 wrote:

Will Sigma ever release the 18-50mm F2.8 zoom for EF-M?
Does the Canon ban on 3rd party AF lenses for the RF mount apply to EF-M as well?
I would love to have this bright sharp standard zoom for my carry-around camera, and I really (really) don't want a SONY alpha.

The only other option would be a Leica APS-C camera in L mount, and they're not as well specced as M cameras in many ways (but nice in others).

Should I just be content with my 18-55 zoom with its competent IS and shoot higher ISO as the light falls?

The answer is no and that's not a guess. That Sigma lens needs some heavy distortion correction, for the M system this needs to be in camera distortion correction and Canon is not going to support this. So even if M wasn't a sunsetting mount it wouldn't happen.

I can only pray Sigma will give us the 18-50 F2.8, distortion and all. We can fix that in post.

User1303423862 wrote:

Maxmolly7 wrote:

I think M system is not a target for Sigma anymore? Little demand because many enthusiasts moved away?

The secondhand market prices for M bodies indicates there is still plenty of interest in the system. Why wouldn't there be? Great cameras, great lens range (except a bright standard zoom).

Sigma would sell boatloads of these 18-50 F2.8 lenses in EF-M mount. A lot more than L mount, that's for sure.

You have to look at it from their perspective. If they are going to invest engineering dollars into developing and producing it for a particular mount, they have to be really certain to get a good return on investment. The average person buying a used EOS M camera is probably not going to be buying a new lens that costs more than what they paid for the rest of their kit. And while Canon will probably continue producing the M50 ii and M200 for a number of years, these models are primarily marketed to the average consumer who wants an upgrade over their smartphone, not enthusiasts who want to buy a fast standard zoom. Plus, there are a number of technical disadvantages to this lens in EF-M mount:

1. No IBIS in any of the bodies means it won't be stabilized
2. No in-camera corrections to fix the distortion
3. f/2.8 on Canon APS-C is not as fast in equivalent terms as it is on other systems due to the 1.6x crop factor

From my perspective, there are a lot more reasons not to release it for EF-M than to release it. The tl;dr version is that they would be wise to focus their efforts on systems that will continue to be supported and developed for the foreseeable future.

dan the man p wrote:

1. No IBIS in any of the bodies means it won't be stabilized
2. No in-camera corrections to fix the distortion
3. f/2.8 on Canon APS-C is not as fast in equivalent terms as it is on other systems due to the 1.6x crop factor

From my perspective, there are a lot more reasons not to release it for EF-M than to release it. The tl;dr version is that they would be wise to focus their efforts on systems that will continue to be supported and developed for the foreseeable future.

1. The Sigma and Leica bodies the L mount version fits don't have IBIS either.
2. This is interesting. SONY bodies do have distortion correction for this lens. Is that because they read and use some info from the lens? Is that something Canon could easily 'turn on'? Or have they actively turned it off for 3rd party lenses?
3. That hasn't stopped manufacturers from selling lots of F2.8 lenses for APS-C cameras before, has it?

User1303423862 wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

YehudaKatz wrote:

User1303423862 wrote:

Will Sigma ever release the 18-50mm F2.8 zoom for EF-M?
Does the Canon ban on 3rd party AF lenses for the RF mount apply to EF-M as well?
I would love to have this bright sharp standard zoom for my carry-around camera, and I really (really) don't want a SONY alpha.

The only other option would be a Leica APS-C camera in L mount, and they're not as well specced as M cameras in many ways (but nice in others).

Should I just be content with my 18-55 zoom with its competent IS and shoot higher ISO as the light falls?

The answer is no and that's not a guess. That Sigma lens needs some heavy distortion correction, for the M system this needs to be in camera distortion correction and Canon is not going to support this. So even if M wasn't a sunsetting mount it wouldn't happen.

I can only pray Sigma will give us the 18-50 F2.8, distortion and all. We can fix that in post.

I know, but M is a consumerish system, you can't simply sell a lens with that amount of distortion without in camera correction for such a basic system. M isn't about M6II + 32mm f/1.4 only, it's also about M200 + 15-45mm.

In my opinion it's better to use your R + 24-105mm f/4.0 L.

Another option - if you want to leave the R at home -  is a slow M zoom for walk around stuff and the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 for when you need a lot of light or shallow DOF.  In a way that's better than a compromised f/2.8 zoom never being truly compact and never being truly bright.

User1303423862 wrote:

dan the man p wrote:

1. No IBIS in any of the bodies means it won't be stabilized
2. No in-camera corrections to fix the distortion
3. f/2.8 on Canon APS-C is not as fast in equivalent terms as it is on other systems due to the 1.6x crop factor

From my perspective, there are a lot more reasons not to release it for EF-M than to release it. The tl;dr version is that they would be wise to focus their efforts on systems that will continue to be supported and developed for the foreseeable future.

1. The Sigma and Leica bodies the L mount version fits don't have IBIS either.
2. This is interesting. SONY bodies do have distortion correction for this lens. Is that because they read and use some info from the lens? Is that something Canon could easily 'turn on'? Or have they actively turned it off for 3rd party lenses?
3. That hasn't stopped manufacturers from selling lots of F2.8 lenses for APS-C cameras before, has it?

1. L mount is Sigma's own, so of course they will release it for that regardless of the economic considerations.
2. I'm not sure how it works. I am sure Canon could do it. TBH I'm not even sure about this point but am taking thunder storm's word at it.
3. No, but it's just another point against it. Not the main one, for sure.