ND on long telephotos

I got the Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG DN OS Sports Lens awhile back and had wanted to get a chance to use it more this summer. I am instead planning on doing that this fall in Washington & Oregon to get some landscape and wildlife footage. Also some people/city shots.

The only thing I need to plan for at this point is ND. I will be using both an S1H & Sigma FP to acquire the (4k/6k raw with Atomos) footage. 180 shutter/30fps & going to attempt some slo-mo (to the extend these bodies can) as well.

For the landscape (locked off) shots I want maximum sharpness (FP doesn't have AA filter, so figuring it for these ones) and so I would prefer to minimize any hit from the ND.

What ND system/option would you purchase for something like this? I have multiple options with my other lenses, variable ND & fixed (all screw on). Based on subject I might be 5/6.3 or down to F13 at any given time.

Hojomo wrote:

I got the Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG DN OS Sports Lens awhile back and had wanted to get a chance to use it more this summer. I am instead planning on doing that this fall in Washington & Oregon to get some landscape and wildlife footage. Also some people/city shots.

The only thing I need to plan for at this point is ND. I will be using both an S1H & Sigma FP to acquire the (4k/6k raw with Atomos) footage. 180 shutter/30fps & going to attempt some slo-mo (to the extend these bodies can) as well.

For the landscape (locked off) shots I want maximum sharpness (FP doesn't have AA filter, so figuring it for these ones) and so I would prefer to minimize any hit from the ND.

What ND system/option would you purchase for something like this? I have multiple options with my other lenses, variable ND & fixed (all screw on). Based on subject I might be 5/6.3 or down to F13 at any given time.

I just have one screw-in 95mm 2-stop ND from B+W for my 500mm PF. Since wildlife are taken when the sun is lower I have never needed anything more than a 2-stop filter and a lot of times I don't even use it. I shoot most of my footage at 30fps or 60fps also.

However since you said landscapes you might need a stronger filter if you plan on shooting something with the sun reflecting off clouds.

NickZ2016 wrote:

If you're shooting at a range of F/stops and SS you either need a set of ND filters (maybe even stacking them) or you need a VND. I'd pick the VND.

It's video not high res stills. 4K is all of 8MP. You could really destroy your lenses sharpness and not notice it.

I disagree with that...I can definitely notice the difference between the Tamron 150-600 G2 and 500PF in 4K and I can also easily notice when the image starts to get bad via diffraction.

DMKAlex wrote:

600mm for video @1/60? You should be concerned with stabilization.

And 600mm for landscape? You're shooting a scene very very far away. Your issue would be with haste and mist in the air.

I am guessing he is going to use the wider focal lengths for landscapes.

NickZ2016 wrote:

JasonTheBirder wrote:

NickZ2016 wrote:

If you're shooting at a range of F/stops and SS you either need a set of ND filters (maybe even stacking them) or you need a VND. I'd pick the VND.

It's video not high res stills. 4K is all of 8MP. You could really destroy your lenses sharpness and not notice it.

I disagree with that...I can definitely notice the difference between the Tamron 150-600 G2 and 500PF in 4K and I can also easily notice when the image starts to get bad via diffraction.

But do you notice anything with a decent ND/VND?

No, I don't. But that's not exactly in the category of "really destroy your lenses sharpness"...

JasonTheBirder wrote:

NickZ2016 wrote:

If you're shooting at a range of F/stops and SS you either need a set of ND filters (maybe even stacking them) or you need a VND. I'd pick the VND.

It's video not high res stills. 4K is all of 8MP. You could really destroy your lenses sharpness and not notice it.

I disagree with that...I can definitely notice the difference between the Tamron 150-600 G2 and 500PF in 4K and I can also easily notice when the image starts to get bad via diffraction.

I think you are both right, and whether you notice the small IQ hit (compared to diffraction) from a quality ND really depends on what you are shooting.

I realize 4K is just 8MP; but the ultimate image quality being produced is made up from a lot of factors. As a general principle, having the optimal image optically at the start of the chain has always been the way I approach image making -- until it doesn't matter for a particular subject/project. At that point it could be that anything goes and lens sharpness is way down the chain of considerations.

JasonTheBirder wrote:

Hojomo wrote:

I got the Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG DN OS Sports Lens awhile back and had wanted to get a chance to use it more this summer. I am instead planning on doing that this fall in Washington & Oregon to get some landscape and wildlife footage. Also some people/city shots.

The only thing I need to plan for at this point is ND. I will be using both an S1H & Sigma FP to acquire the (4k/6k raw with Atomos) footage. 180 shutter/30fps & going to attempt some slo-mo (to the extend these bodies can) as well.

For the landscape (locked off) shots I want maximum sharpness (FP doesn't have AA filter, so figuring it for these ones) and so I would prefer to minimize any hit from the ND.

What ND system/option would you purchase for something like this? I have multiple options with my other lenses, variable ND & fixed (all screw on). Based on subject I might be 5/6.3 or down to F13 at any given time.

I just have one screw-in 95mm 2-stop ND from B+W for my 500mm PF. Since wildlife are taken when the sun is lower I have never needed anything more than a 2-stop filter and a lot of times I don't even use it. I shoot most of my footage at 30fps or 60fps also.

However since you said landscapes you might need a stronger filter if you plan on shooting something with the sun reflecting off clouds.

Thank you for this. I suspect this will be my main setup for the fall, needing 2stops or none at all for most of the shots.

JasonTheBirder wrote:

DMKAlex wrote:

600mm for video @1/60? You should be concerned with stabilization.

And 600mm for landscape? You're shooting a scene very very far away. Your issue would be with haste and mist in the air.

I am guessing he is going to use the wider focal lengths for landscapes.

correct. I actually find 150mm (and 85 or 135mm covered in another lens) to be my favorite landscape/streetscape focal lengths.

Alan_W1 wrote:

I personally have never needed more than a three stop nd filter for wildlife {bird} video stuff with my telephotos, but once autumn/winter have set in, i rarely need them at all.

Thank you, this is inline with my expectations and encouraging to hear!

That said, i have pretty much switched entirely to vnd's, for their versatility.

As your Sigma has a bayonet-fit hood, you may find that a screw-in hood will allow easier operation of a vnd filter....otherwise you would have to add/remove the bayonet hood to make adjustments to the filter {assuming you intend to use a hood}...which would be a slow/cumbersome method.

Although your sigma takes an 86mm filter, be aware that some 86mm vnd's may have a wider overall diameter than a standard solid filter rim { maybe even have a 95mm front filter thread}, which would probably not allow your bayonet hood to fit over it.

Specs for this lens says 95mm front filters. The largest I have right now is 82mm so can't test.

I would like to get the VND for convenience, but it sounds like the PolarPro VND won't allow me to use the bayonet hood (which is nice and easy to use). I guess that means standard ND, which works out to stack with the regular 82mm ones I already have for most of my other lenses I think (which I will continue to use more often anyways).

I will probably opt for a VND for my other lenses eventually. I am kind of waiting for Sony to implement it in their non-cinema bodies and then switch platforms lol. I hate messing with filters in the field.

You are right that some ND filters soften the image, and it's especially noticeable at long focal lengths.

Old Cavisions are really bad, but the new ones might be better.

Formatt Firecrest Ultra series touts a precision lap and polish, which supposedly means that there's no visible loss in sharpness, even when using focal lengths over 100mm, but I haven't tested mine to confirm the claim.

My SLR Magic VND had no perceptible loss in sharpness at 200mm on an APS-C camera with an OLPF, but I don't think there's a 95mm option.

Aurora-Aperture makes a 95mm VND, but my 5-11 stop one introduced crosshatching toward max attenuation, despite the hard stops claiming to prevent it.

It's hard not to go with a matte box or square filter holder for a lens with such large filter threads, although Fotmatt, Tiffen, B+W, Heliopan, etc. all make screw-on 95mm ND filters.

P.S. I like to use a CPL when shooting outdoors, as it helps hold sky detail and applies a nice selective contrast and saturation in camera. There are also Graduated ND filters, as well as Blender/Attenuator ND filters, which can be very helpful in holding sky detail on certain shots.

Andrew S10 wrote:

You are right that some ND filters soften the image, and it's especially noticeable at long focal lengths.

Old Cavisions are really bad, but the new ones might be better.

Formatt Firecrest Ultra series touts a precision lap and polish, which supposedly means that there's no visible loss in sharpness, even when using focal lengths over 100mm, but I haven't tested mine to confirm the claim.

My SLR Magic VND had no perceptible loss in sharpness at 200mm on an APS-C camera with an OLPF, but I don't think there's a 95mm option.

Aurora-Aperture makes a 95mm VND, but my 5-11 stop one introduced crosshatching toward max attenuation, despite the hard stops claiming to prevent it.

It's hard not to go with a matte box or square filter holder for a lens with such large filter threads, although Fotmatt, Tiffen, B+W, Heliopan, etc. all make screw-on 95mm ND filters.

P.S. I like to use a CPL when shooting outdoors, as it helps hold sky detail and applies a nice selective contrast and saturation in camera. There are also Graduated ND filters, as well as Blender/Attenuator ND filters, which can be very helpful in holding sky detail on certain shots.

I do use CPL (and know that VND includes one) to eliminate reflection and darken the sky when needed. That is much more for stills; but the tele video stuff not so much. I am hoping with the S1H/atomos combo I have enough latitude to not have to use a graduated filter.

Are people finding the need for that with the latest generation sensors with improved DR & log profiles? Most of what I've shot with my current cameras has been interior/controlled lighting (or stills where I shot raw and would opt to adjust in post rather than deal with filters).

My SLR Magic VND functions as a polarizer when I rotate the entire filter, but my Aurora-Aperture just shifts the hue, so if you want your VND to function as a polarizer, I believe you need to get one that uses two linear polarizers and lacks quarter wave plate.

I haven't used that camera, but you probably have enough latitude for everything except holding a sunset and foreground without silhouetting.