Digital mics - need some helpful info: Digital Video Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Digital mics - need some helpful info

Started 7 months ago | Questions

Magnar W • Veteran Member • Posts: 7,059

Digital mics - need some helpful info

7 months ago

Some here with real world experience with Sony digital mics via the multi interface hot shoe? I am looking for solutions with on-camera mounted mic, and also wireless mic. They will not be used at the same time. The intended use is lower end documentary and short format reportage style work.

I am not interested in XRL solutions since we already have this at work.

ANSWER:

This question has not been answered yet.

Reply to thread Reply with quote Complain

Andrew S10 • Senior Member • Posts: 1,839

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to Magnar W • 7 months ago

I have an old Sony on-camera gun/zoom mic that I used with an SR-11 handycam, and it's either the same as the Sony ECM-GZ1M or very similar. It's really only good for scratch audio, as it doesn't sound natural, has high self noise, and despite being tuned with a high-pass-filter, it's very susceptible to wind noise.

I looked into the Sony ECM-W1M Wireless Microphone 14 years ago, but ruled it out, due to the poor reviews and short range of Bluetooth, and these days you can get a Rode Wireless Go II for $10 more.

These multi interface mics are for consumers, and just one step above the built-in mic.

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

Markr041 • Forum Pro • Posts: 10,078

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to Magnar W • 7 months ago

Magnar W wrote:

Some here with real world experience with Sony digital mics via the multi interface hot shoe? I am looking for solutions with on-camera mounted mic, and also wireless mic. They will not be used at the same time. The intended use is lower end documentary and short format reportage style work.

I am not interested in XRL solutions since we already have this at work.

This is Sony's newest digital mic:

https://electronics.sony.com/imaging/imaging-accessories/camcorder-accessories/p/ecmb1m?cid=sem-na-3349&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20ads%20(United%20States)&utm_term=PRODUCT_GROUP&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvZCZBhCiARIsAPXbajtknUdVzMA4WoFqI6gPJjZE1Dv_UFhdooDnPO2LZFy32p8y6WjRQ4MaAifkEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

I am sorry I don't have experience with it. I have used Canon's newest digital mic and it is very good. One advantage of these newer digital mics is that you have a choice of degree of directionality.

Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list

Panasonic ZS100 Olympus TG-5 Canon EOS M Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Nikon Z6 +5 more

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

OP Magnar W • Veteran Member • Posts: 7,059

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to Markr041 • 7 months ago

Markr041 wrote:

Magnar W wrote:

Some here with real world experience with Sony digital mics via the multi interface hot shoe? I am looking for solutions with on-camera mounted mic, and also wireless mic. They will not be used at the same time. The intended use is lower end documentary and short format reportage style work.

I am not interested in XRL solutions since we already have this at work.

This is Sony's newest digital mic:

https://electronics.sony.com/imaging/imaging-accessories/camcorder-accessories/p/ecmb1m?cid=sem-na-3349&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20ads%20(United%20States)&utm_term=PRODUCT_GROUP&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvZCZBhCiARIsAPXbajtknUdVzMA4WoFqI6gPJjZE1Dv_UFhdooDnPO2LZFy32p8y6WjRQ4MaAifkEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

I am sorry I don't have experience with it. I have used Canon's newest digital mic and it is very good. One advantage of these newer digital mics is that you have a choice of degree of directionality.

I am looking for real world experience. The products are just a quick search away. But thanks for responding.

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

Leif Gredsted • Junior Member • Posts: 27

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to Magnar W • 7 months ago

I have been using the analogue SONY ECM-XYST1M for several years and I find it to be a very good microphone. I have also been listening to some tests of the digital SONY microphones but I find the sound a tiny bit artificial. Maybe it's just me, but for now, I'll stay with the analog XYST1M.

Leif Gredsted's gear list:Leif Gredsted's gear list

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Sony ZV-1 +6 more

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

OP Magnar W • Veteran Member • Posts: 7,059

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to Leif Gredsted • 7 months ago

Thanks. Helpful.

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

Entropy512 • Veteran Member • Posts: 6,016

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to Leif Gredsted • 7 months ago

Leif Gredsted wrote:

I have been using the analogue SONY ECM-XYST1M for several years and I find it to be a very good microphone. I have also been listening to some tests of the digital SONY microphones but I find the sound a tiny bit artificial. Maybe it's just me, but for now, I'll stay with the analog XYST1M.

I have the XYST1M, I'm pretty happy with it, although at least on most bodies, if you want to disable AGC you have to use the 3.5mm jumper, MIS appears to force AGC which is why I'm kind of against MIS mics.

Maybe the digital ones are different in this regard. I like the concept of a phased array mic, but all of Sony's phased array mics have a front/back array that allows the directionality to be adjusted but won't support stereo separation, I'd love to see one with a left/right array that allows for stereo steering.

-- hide signature --

Context is key. If I have quoted someone else's post when replying, please do not reply to something I say without reading text that I have quoted, and understanding the reason the quote function exists.

Entropy512's gear list:Entropy512's gear list

Sony a6000 Pentax K-5 Pentax K-01 Sony a6300 Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM +5 more

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

Off The Mark • Veteran Member • Posts: 6,934

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to Entropy512 • 7 months ago

Entropy512 wrote:

Leif Gredsted wrote:

I have been using the analogue SONY ECM-XYST1M for several years and I find it to be a very good microphone. I have also been listening to some tests of the digital SONY microphones but I find the sound a tiny bit artificial. Maybe it's just me, but for now, I'll stay with the analog XYST1M.

I have the XYST1M, I'm pretty happy with it, although at least on most bodies, if you want to disable AGC you have to use the 3.5mm jumper, MIS appears to force AGC which is why I'm kind of against MIS mics.

Maybe the digital ones are different in this regard. I like the concept of a phased array mic, but all of Sony's phased array mics have a front/back array that allows the directionality to be adjusted but won't support stereo separation, I'd love to see one with a left/right array that allows for stereo steering.

Thanks for the heads up about MIS mics forcing automatic gain control.

-- hide signature --

What Middle School Is Really Like:
https://youtu.be/Q1Xtz5EqMuo

Off The Mark's gear list:Off The Mark's gear list

Sony a6000 Sony a5100 Sony a6300 Olympus E-M1 II Sony a6500 +16 more

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

Entropy512 • Veteran Member • Posts: 6,016

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to Off The Mark • 7 months ago

Off The Mark wrote:

Entropy512 wrote:

Leif Gredsted wrote:

I have been using the analogue SONY ECM-XYST1M for several years and I find it to be a very good microphone. I have also been listening to some tests of the digital SONY microphones but I find the sound a tiny bit artificial. Maybe it's just me, but for now, I'll stay with the analog XYST1M.

I have the XYST1M, I'm pretty happy with it, although at least on most bodies, if you want to disable AGC you have to use the 3.5mm jumper, MIS appears to force AGC which is why I'm kind of against MIS mics.

Maybe the digital ones are different in this regard. I like the concept of a phased array mic, but all of Sony's phased array mics have a front/back array that allows the directionality to be adjusted but won't support stereo separation, I'd love to see one with a left/right array that allows for stereo steering.

Thanks for the heads up about MIS mics forcing automatic gain control.

It might be better in newer cameras, but the last time I used an XYST1M, to have manual gain I needed to use the 3.5mm jumper - without it, the manual gain would be greyed out. I haven't tried it in MIS mode in a LONG time, in fact I'm not sure if I ever did with the A7M3 (vs. A6500), and the digital MIS interface may be a completely different story.

-- hide signature --

Entropy512's gear list:Entropy512's gear list

Sony a6000 Pentax K-5 Pentax K-01 Sony a6300 Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM +5 more

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

jjdp • Contributing Member • Posts: 606

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to Entropy512 • 7 months ago

Isn't a "digital mic" just a mic with an A/D converter built-in? Is it correct to assume the only advantage would be if the converter is better than what's in the camera?

As long as the mic/interface can be powered by the camera and pass audio through the shoe. I briefly had a Sony XLR-K2M and it was great in these regards, though I don't think it was digital.

-- hide signature --

My debut film! https://youtu.be/cYKKtF1BHcY

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

Markr041 • Forum Pro • Posts: 10,078

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to jjdp • 7 months ago

jjdp wrote:

Isn't a "digital mic" just a mic with an A/D converter built-in? Is it correct to assume the only advantage would be if the converter is better than what's in the camera?

As long as the mic/interface can be powered by the camera and pass audio through the shoe. I briefly had a Sony XLR-K2M and it was great in these regards, though I don't think it was digital.

1. No cable, which can pickup noise.

2. No mic battery to die - power is supplied by the camera, so only one battery to watch.

3. The digital mic has both a microphone preamplifier and a A/D converter. Either one could be better than what is in the camera.

Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list

Panasonic ZS100 Olympus TG-5 Canon EOS M Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Nikon Z6 +5 more

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

OP Magnar W • Veteran Member • Posts: 7,059

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to Markr041 • 7 months ago

Markr041 wrote:

jjdp wrote:

Isn't a "digital mic" just a mic with an A/D converter built-in? Is it correct to assume the only advantage would be if the converter is better than what's in the camera?

As long as the mic/interface can be powered by the camera and pass audio through the shoe. I briefly had a Sony XLR-K2M and it was great in these regards, though I don't think it was digital.

1. No cable, which can pickup noise.

2. No mic battery to die - power is supplied by the camera, so only one battery to watch.

3. The digital mic has both a microphone preamplifier and a A/D converter. Either one could be better than what is in the camera.

That's what I am looking for, so I ordered an ECM-W2BT set, plus a lavalier microphone. Hopefully I can get a first impression at the end of next week.

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

sludge21017 • Veteran Member • Posts: 3,813

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to Magnar W • 7 months ago

Magnar W wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

jjdp wrote:

Isn't a "digital mic" just a mic with an A/D converter built-in? Is it correct to assume the only advantage would be if the converter is better than what's in the camera?

As long as the mic/interface can be powered by the camera and pass audio through the shoe. I briefly had a Sony XLR-K2M and it was great in these regards, though I don't think it was digital.

1. No cable, which can pickup noise.

2. No mic battery to die - power is supplied by the camera, so only one battery to watch.

3. The digital mic has both a microphone preamplifier and a A/D converter. Either one could be better than what is in the camera.

That's what I am looking for, so I ordered an ECM-W2BT set, plus a lavalier microphone. Hopefully I can get a first impression at the end of next week.

That one in digital mode will have a hiss since there's no way to set the audio rec level in camera while in digital.

To get around that, use the cable and set the audio rec level in camera a little bit lower.

Of course, if you are outside and not in a quiet setting, you might not hear it.

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

OP Magnar W • Veteran Member • Posts: 7,059

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to sludge21017 • 7 months ago

sludge21017 wrote:

Magnar W wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

jjdp wrote:

Isn't a "digital mic" just a mic with an A/D converter built-in? Is it correct to assume the only advantage would be if the converter is better than what's in the camera?

As long as the mic/interface can be powered by the camera and pass audio through the shoe. I briefly had a Sony XLR-K2M and it was great in these regards, though I don't think it was digital.

1. No cable, which can pickup noise.

2. No mic battery to die - power is supplied by the camera, so only one battery to watch.

3. The digital mic has both a microphone preamplifier and a A/D converter. Either one could be better than what is in the camera.

That's what I am looking for, so I ordered an ECM-W2BT set, plus a lavalier microphone. Hopefully I can get a first impression at the end of next week.

That one in digital mode will have a hiss since there's no way to set the audio rec level in camera while in digital.

For real world work you rarely get the ideal solution when working fast at a lower level. I am not producing for Netflix.

Probably subtracting a take of room noise or using other filters can help to reduce unwanted noise.

To get around that, use the cable and set the audio rec level in camera a little bit lower.

Tests will show what we get from fully digital input. At least there are three Db levels for input.

Of course, if you are outside and not in a quiet setting, you might not hear it.

Some schools even accept and appreciate some "unwanted" noise, especially for reportage and info media style work, since such flaws will strenghten the impression of realism and anthensity when listening to the message. Of cause too much will be over the top, but I don't think this is a major problem with digital sound capture.

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

Entropy512 • Veteran Member • Posts: 6,016

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to Markr041 • 7 months ago

Markr041 wrote:

jjdp wrote:

Isn't a "digital mic" just a mic with an A/D converter built-in? Is it correct to assume the only advantage would be if the converter is better than what's in the camera?

As long as the mic/interface can be powered by the camera and pass audio through the shoe. I briefly had a Sony XLR-K2M and it was great in these regards, though I don't think it was digital.

1. No cable, which can pickup noise.

2. No mic battery to die - power is supplied by the camera, so only one battery to watch.

3. The digital mic has both a microphone preamplifier and a A/D converter. Either one could be better than what is in the camera.

In addition, how Sony sets up gain controls could be completely different between digital MIS and analog MIS, the latter of which has been documented in the past as being different from 3.5mm on at least some Sony cameras.

I would hope it is different because analog MIS has some serious limitations such as forced AGC on many Sonys (although the same bodies that support digital MIS might have fixed this issue with analog MIS at the same time...)

-- hide signature --

Entropy512's gear list:Entropy512's gear list

Sony a6000 Pentax K-5 Pentax K-01 Sony a6300 Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM +5 more

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

Entropy512 • Veteran Member • Posts: 6,016

Re: Digital mics - need some helpful info

In reply to sludge21017 • 7 months ago

sludge21017 wrote:

Magnar W wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

jjdp wrote:

Isn't a "digital mic" just a mic with an A/D converter built-in? Is it correct to assume the only advantage would be if the converter is better than what's in the camera?

As long as the mic/interface can be powered by the camera and pass audio through the shoe. I briefly had a Sony XLR-K2M and it was great in these regards, though I don't think it was digital.

1. No cable, which can pickup noise.

2. No mic battery to die - power is supplied by the camera, so only one battery to watch.

3. The digital mic has both a microphone preamplifier and a A/D converter. Either one could be better than what is in the camera.

That's what I am looking for, so I ordered an ECM-W2BT set, plus a lavalier microphone. Hopefully I can get a first impression at the end of next week.

That one in digital mode will have a hiss since there's no way to set the audio rec level in camera while in digital.

To get around that, use the cable and set the audio rec level in camera a little bit lower.

Of course, if you are outside and not in a quiet setting, you might not hear it.

Wow, this would indicate that the digital MIS has the same severe flaw as analog MIS - forced AGC!

-- hide signature --

Entropy512's gear list:Entropy512's gear list

Sony a6000 Pentax K-5 Pentax K-01 Sony a6300 Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM +5 more

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

OP Magnar W • Veteran Member • Posts: 7,059

Follow up ...

In reply to Magnar W • 6 months ago

After I posted here, I got the chance to work with two digital microphone solutions for the Sony Multi Interface hot shoe: The ECM-B10 and the wireless ECM-W2BT with an aditional lavalier mic. These small units are easy to carry, and discrete when in use.

Both solutions seems to work well for my lower end professional work. Setup is super-simple, and both mics offer clean voice recordings when used properly within the intended range. The signals are pretty robust when imported to Adobe Audition and Premiere Pro. Not much post processing is needed to get okay final results.

After doing simpler reportage style work for a few weeks with these mics, I decided to keep both, as they fill out each other nicely.

Thanks a lot to everybody who chimed in!

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

Off The Mark • Veteran Member • Posts: 6,934

Re: Follow up ...

In reply to Magnar W • 6 months ago

Thanks for the update.

-- hide signature --

What Middle School Is Really Like:
https://youtu.be/Q1Xtz5EqMuo

Off The Mark's gear list:Off The Mark's gear list

Sony a6000 Sony a5100 Sony a6300 Olympus E-M1 II Sony a6500 +16 more

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

alantan • Contributing Member • Posts: 675

Re: Follow up ...

In reply to Magnar W • 6 months ago

Magnar W wrote:

After I posted here, I got the chance to work with two digital microphone solutions for the Sony Multi Interface hot shoe: The ECM-B10 and the wireless ECM-W2BT with an aditional lavalier mic. These small units are easy to carry, and discrete when in use.

Both solutions seems to work well for my lower end professional work. Setup is super-simple, and both mics offer clean voice recordings when used properly within the intended range. The signals are pretty robust when imported to Adobe Audition and Premiere Pro. Not much post processing is needed to get okay final results.

After doing simpler reportage style work for a few weeks with these mics, I decided to keep both, as they fill out each other nicely.

Thanks a lot to everybody who chimed in!

I just got the b10 mic on a74 and I have it set to auto 0db attenuation. I find it picks up noise very easily. If I press the joystick for af, I hear noise picked up from the mic. Is that normal?
I have to be very gentle in moving the camera else it’s just going to pick up noise.

-- hide signature --

my pics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryWHIt_e5TY&noredirect=1

alantan's gear list:alantan's gear list

Nikon D700 Nikon D800 Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm X-M1 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +3 more

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

OP Magnar W • Veteran Member • Posts: 7,059

Re: Follow up ...

In reply to alantan • 6 months ago

alantan wrote:

Magnar W wrote:

After I posted here, I got the chance to work with two digital microphone solutions for the Sony Multi Interface hot shoe: The ECM-B10 and the wireless ECM-W2BT with an aditional lavalier mic. These small units are easy to carry, and discrete when in use.

Both solutions seems to work well for my lower end professional work. Setup is super-simple, and both mics offer clean voice recordings when used properly within the intended range. The signals are pretty robust when imported to Adobe Audition and Premiere Pro. Not much post processing is needed to get okay final results.

After doing simpler reportage style work for a few weeks with these mics, I decided to keep both, as they fill out each other nicely.

Thanks a lot to everybody who chimed in!

I just got the b10 mic on a74 and I have it set to auto 0db attenuation. I find it picks up noise very easily. If I press the joystick for af, I hear noise picked up from the mic. Is that normal?
I have to be very gentle in moving the camera else it’s just going to pick up noise.

I normally use -10 db for noise recording, and this works well when using wide angle and close distance to the subject. I try to avoidhandhelt for interview, except for walking and talking Then I use a wireless mic, bou this solution also have it's noise problems. The most challenging part is the environment you work within, unless you have a decent studio. Most of my work is at location, repotage style stuff. For most productions I need to add some noise cancelling at post processing.

After all, it is about avoiding the worst pitfalls, and then focus on content quality. This my take.

Good luck with your journey into voice recording.

Reply Reply with quote Reply to thread Complain

Keyboard shortcuts:

FForum MMy threads

Latest sample galleries

Nikkor 58mm F0.95 Noct Sample Gallery

Sony ZV-E1 pre-production sample gallery (DPReview TV)

The Canon EOS R3 goes to the rodeo

Fujifilm X-H2 review samples

See more galleries »

Latest in-depth reviews

DPReview TV: Nikon 58mm F0.95 Noct Review!

We're Noct messing around with this review.

DxO PureRAW 3 review: Give Adobe's apps a much-needed boost with modern AI algorithms

Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom impress in a lot of ways, but their noise reduction lags the competition and their lens corrections lack a real-world basis. DxO PureRAW 3 aims to come to their rescue without totally reinventing your workflow!

The Sony ZV-E1 is the company's latest vlogging-focused camera: a full-frame mirrorless camera based the FX3/a7S III sensor, aimed at YouTubers and 'creators' looking to go pro.

The Sony ZV-E1 is a full frame camera targeting YouTubers. Chris and Jordan are Youtubers, what do they think?

Fujifilm's X-H2 is a high-resolution stills and video camera, that sits alongside the high-speed X-H2S at the pinnacle of the company's range of X-mount APS-C mirrorless cameras. We dug into what it does and what it means.

Latest buying guides

Above $2500 cameras tend to become increasingly specialized, making it difficult to select a 'best' option. We case our eye over the options costing more than $2500 but less than $4000, to find the best all-rounder.

There are a lot of photo/video cameras that have found a role as B-cameras on professional film productions or even A-cameras for amateur and independent productions. We've combed through the options and selected our two favorite cameras in this class.

What’s the best camera for around $2000? These capable cameras should be solid and well-built, have both the speed and focus to capture fast action and offer professional-level image quality. In this buying guide we’ve rounded up all the current interchangeable lens cameras costing around $2000 and recommended the best.

The best cameras for family and friends photos in 2022

Family moments are precious and sometimes you want to capture that time spent with loved ones or friends in better quality than your phone can manage. We've selected a group of cameras that are easy to keep with you, and that can adapt to take photos wherever and whenever something memorable happens.

Best affordable cameras for sports and action in 2022

What's the best camera for shooting sports and action? Fast continuous shooting, reliable autofocus and great battery life are just three of the most important factors. In this buying guide we've rounded-up several great cameras for shooting sports and action, and recommended the best.

Check out more buying guides »


Spending a Penny by Lensmate from Faeces	The end of another day by io_bg from Good Night	The food transfer by dv312 from A Big Year 2023	Mike and the FWS1000 by GeoffN from Scooters/Motorbikes in motion	Brazilian Gripen by Johnson Barros from Fast Jet With Wheels On The Ground	CURIOSITY by TX Photo Doc from Fleeting Moments

16	1DSmII
13	rdbot
9	AZMario
8	Joe Lynch
8	NickZ2016
6	Off The Mark
4	John Koch
4	Sean Nelson
4	Andrew S10
3	chasg
3	alcelc
3	daryls57
2	timccr
2	Tom Stites
2	CanonC100User
2	GVCCBob
2	sercheese
2	brian88
1	John Vickers
1	ashton lamont